The_People1 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 This move should put Wideman into the pressbox and we are again serious about making a push for the playoffs. Giordano - Hamilton Brodie - Stone Bartkowski - Engellend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 6 hours ago, cross16 said: Like this deal as I've been a Stone for a while. You've been pretty stoned for awhile alright...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's not much to give up. Hopefully he can add to the defensive side. Let's see how he does tomorrow eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, The_People1 said: This move should put Wideman into the pressbox and we are again serious about making a push for the playoffs. Giordano - Hamilton Brodie - Stone Bartkowski - Engellend There's a good chance Widedog is still in the lineup in Nashville. Gully was talking about him needing to talk to Stone about the way he wants the D to play. Depends on the game day skate, but I think we have to wait. Too bad it's a 4 pointer. BTW, didn't realize he was Mark Stone's brother. Maybe we can deal with Ottawa for his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Although this move is virtually for free, I'll take the wait and see. I haven't watched him much, I always focus on Dvorak and Chychrun when I watch ARI. But what I've noticed of him is slow and cumbersome. That being said, if he can stay home and give Brodie more confident freedom I'd call him a good add. The "take a step back" in me wonders if he'll be much of an upgrade on Wideman. I am excited to see what he can bring, but I have very tempered expectations. I have not watched him play much either. I feel confident, however, that he will play better than Wideman. Not many players are slower than Wideman. Few turn over the puck as often as he has this year. I doubt that Treliving acquired him thinking that he is a stellar defenceman. Rather, I suspect that he wanted to fix a major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Stone pre injury would have been worth getting excited about. big guy, avg skater, but solid first pass, big shot in the O zone and he can hit. Post injury (hurt his knee last year) he's definitely been on the slower of side of things. Faster than Wideman yes but not by leaps and bounds so I agree expectations should be tempered. however, if that knee is getting better then the Flames may have something. If nothing else Stone will make things tougher on forwards in his own zone. Even with decreased mobility, he brings a physical game in his own zone and that is sorely lacking on this team. wonder how Stone and Backlund meeting will go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 BT did not spend a 3rd rounder to acquire Stone for just 23 games this season. He clearly sees Stone as a 2nd pairing dman moving beyond this season. LV will have first crack at resigning him though because it makes little sense to sign him now then protect only 9 players rather than 11 for the expansion draft. Stone will be looking for 4+ on a long term deal which is why ARI cut bait. If Stone stays, that means every other team in the league will pass on his asking price, hence we will yet again have one of the most expensive #4 dman in the league, and that’s after the acquisition cost. The conditional 5th rounder we tossed in tells me there were other bidders as well but no one was willing to pay the extra price. BB always said you don’t build teams from UFA’s because they are all over priced. This is even worse, this is UFA, plus expansions draft, plus acquisition cost of a 3rd and conditional 5th rounder. I would consider this trade a failure if BT is unable to retain the player beyond this season on a multi-year deal with a cap hit of < $3.5, while retaining our key forward players. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I Have to agree with Cheersman losing a 3rd for a rental that everyone claims is slow is a bad move I know most will say a third for a NHLer is a good move but he is only for the rest of the season. I say a c on this move and thats being generous, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's just one of those things for me, "if it seems to good to be true....". ARI's got $30mil in Cap space opening next yr, so I'm guessing this is just getting something out of expansion draft possibility. That small price = not much demand, or BT was just quick on the draw. So I hope the latter over the no interest. I'm a little worried BT is enamored by the pre-surgery Stone, so another consideration. I'm a big fan of starting at zero and seeing how it goes. I was kind of surprised just how bad ARI was this year up until a couple weeks ago. I'm, like, the only retard that thought they'd be alright. Dang, is this team only going to get better, we've gotta get on it!! Look at the farm, look at the bottom guys on CapFriendly. ELC's, some of their best players, and more to come. Oh right, they have Keller in college too...a few short yrs they're going to be a big, big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, CheersMan said: BT did not spend a 3rd rounder to acquire Stone for just 23 games this season. He clearly sees Stone as a 2nd pairing dman moving beyond this season. LV will have first crack at resigning him though because it makes little sense to sign him now then protect only 9 players rather than 11 for the expansion draft. Stone will be looking for 4+ on a long term deal which is why ARI cut bait. If Stone stays, that means every other team in the league will pass on his asking price, hence we will yet again have one of the most expensive #4 dman in the league, and that’s after the acquisition cost. The conditional 5th rounder we tossed in tells me there were other bidders as well but no one was willing to pay the extra price. BB always said you don’t build teams from UFA’s because they are all over priced. This is even worse, this is UFA, plus expansions draft, plus acquisition cost of a 3rd and conditional 5th rounder. I would consider this trade a failure if BT is unable to retain the player beyond this season on a multi-year deal with a cap hit of < $3.5, while retaining our key forward players. Time will tell. You can also choose to look at the need to replace Wideman RIGHT NOW. We've done that for a 3rd rounder. Boohoo. Maybe removing Wideman from the lineup will save us a few games and bring the playoffs. Maybe keeping Wideman off the ice will make the refs forget he's a Flame. Rather low risk move if you ask me. If BB was serious about not building a team from the UFA list, then he must forget about Frolik and Brouwer. And he better re-sign Elliott because otherwise he needs to make a trade for a goalie. Or sign an UFA goalie. Stone is what he is. If he shows that he's capable of a rebound, then he gets re-signed. Maybe not before the draft, but likely before he July 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Anyone who is worried about losing a 3rd rounder in this year's draft for a legit NHL dman should probably understand this is probably the worst draft in over 10 years. It is really bad so for me losing a 3rd rounder is no big deal. Especially considering they could easily get a pick like it or similar by dealing someone like Engelland or Jokipakka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, cross16 said: Anyone who is worried about losing a 3rd rounder in this year's draft for a legit NHL dman should probably understand this is probably the worst draft in over 10 years. It is really bad so for me losing a 3rd rounder is no big deal. Especially considering they could easily get a pick like it or similar by dealing someone like Engelland or Jokipakka. The cost of a 3rd rounder for possibly just 23 games is just the beginning. IF, IF Stone passes on the LV offer and IF, IF, he then passes on 29 other team offers, THEN we have the option of paying Stone MORE TERM AND MONEY than any other team was willing to pay. That’s after we acquired him for more assets than any other team was willing to pay. Maybe this just turns out to be a very expensive rental for a possible non playoff team because the cost to retain him beyond this season could be over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 10 hours ago, CheersMan said: The cost of a 3rd rounder for possibly just 23 games is just the beginning. IF, IF Stone passes on the LV offer and IF, IF, he then passes on 29 other team offers, THEN we have the option of paying Stone MORE TERM AND MONEY than any other team was willing to pay. That’s after we acquired him for more assets than any other team was willing to pay. Maybe this just turns out to be a very expensive rental for a possible non playoff team because the cost to retain him beyond this season could be over the top. You getting way ahead of things and are worrying about multiple thing that may not, or likely will not happen. What if Vegas has no interest? If Vegas does claim him,then no big deal. He counts as the Flames selection and the flames lose no one off their roster. So for a 3rd round pick they got a dman to help them down the stretch and saved losing another player off their roster. Nothing wrong with that. Stone won't get 4 mill I can promise you that. If a team was prepared to pay Stone 4 mill they'd be giving up more than a 3rd and a 5th. Not only that Stones wife is from Calgary,he played junior here, they just had twins, and I've read elsewhere he was looking at homes here before he got traded. Money and term are not always the number 1 priority. Stone likely would take less, how much is for he and the flames to decide but he is probably only going to get somewhere around 3 mill on a 1 or 2 year deal. He's had that bad a year. Flames don't risk much in this scenario, especially given how weak the draft is. Also, given how weak the Flames are in their 4-6 defence spot Stone could wind up filling a big need and if he does, a 3rd and a 5th is no big deal to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, CheersMan said: The cost of a 3rd rounder for possibly just 23 games is just the beginning. IF, IF Stone passes on the LV offer and IF, IF, he then passes on 29 other team offers, THEN we have the option of paying Stone MORE TERM AND MONEY than any other team was willing to pay. That’s after we acquired him for more assets than any other team was willing to pay. Maybe this just turns out to be a very expensive rental for a possible non playoff team because the cost to retain him beyond this season could be over the top. Wait till you see the deadline deals for rentals. How do you know what, if anything, was offered for Stone? Read Eklund? Very expensive rental? We got more for Russell. More for Hudler. Your solution is to do what to replace Wideman and Engelland and Yokipakka? Wait till the summer and trade something else for a top 4D? Like t or not, you will be there lining up for other players offering more than $4m for the same or less. Maybe a smart GM can get him on a good deal, considering his less than stellar contract year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 8 hours ago, CheersMan said: The cost of a 3rd rounder for possibly just 23 games is just the beginning. IF, IF Stone passes on the LV offer and IF, IF, he then passes on 29 other team offers, THEN we have the option of paying Stone MORE TERM AND MONEY than any other team was willing to pay. That’s after we acquired him for more assets than any other team was willing to pay. Maybe this just turns out to be a very expensive rental for a possible non playoff team because the cost to retain him beyond this season could be over the top. I can't believe anyone is complaining about this move. Every move has risk in them, if we want to park Wideman and try to enhance our chances to make the playoffs you make these kinds of moves. I could care less about losing a 3rd round pick of some unknown player. The future will look after itself or it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I can't believe PPL are happy with this deal from what every one has said he is not the player he use to be he is slow and been hurt. So if this is the case plus we have him for a rental we throw away a 3rd we probably will not reach the playoffs even with a what average D man who can hit and can shoot the puck. We needed a goalie who can stop the puck on a consistent bases. Look at TJ where did we pick him just because it is a not so great draft great players can still come out of it JH at 4th TJ I think 4th throwing away picks for rentals is something I thought was just crazy our cupboards are not full contrary to popular belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 We gave up a 1st & 2 3nds for pending RFA Dougie Hamilton & promptly re-signed him. After a slow start acclimatizing he is now considered core. 2015 was looked at as a stronger draft. I don't think many Flames fans regret that trade now. For Stone we are giving a 3rd rounder (average 20% chance of a cuppa in the NHL) in a weak draft & maybe a 5th if he re-signs. In return we get a 1/2 price test drive for the balance of this season & playoffs. This also allows Stone to access the organization (he already knows the city). If the Flames make an offer but he still wants to check his value on the open market let him. Then when a flat cap & other circumstances don't result in a pot of gold he can decide if he'd be happier @ home. If so he could restart negotiation with BT knowing a pie in the sky ask won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I don't think you can compare a top 1-2 in Boston at the age of what 22 to a player at his ( Twilight yrs ) Ok that might be a little over rated 26 isn't that old still a few good yrs for a D man but it is only a 3rd but only if he resigns if not we lost a third for maybe a couple of extra wins Maybe? Stills depends on our Goalie and I have no confidence on Elli. A few good games does not make him the Goalie we traded for I think this is a bandage fix but Ok lets see where the chips will fall. If he can play better than what we have now BT did a good move I just read on this forum he is slow and still might be favouring a bad knee. We all know Wides is gone we will not get any return for him he will probably never play in the NHL again. I have said from the start the refs ignore what other teams do to us because of Wides JMO on that situation. By the way I highly doubt the Flames would have given up all those picks if they didn't already have a deal in the works with Hams the delay was probably term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm really not reading too much into this acquisition. Its a simple defensive depth move. Stone isn't going to win us games single handedly but he should provide another steady presence on the D line. I don't think this makes the playoff push any easier as out biggest struggle has been scoring of late. If the Flames can start to score first in games and find a way to build 1-2 goal cushions it should really allow the D to play to their potential, as opposed to constantly chasing pucks and leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, zima said: I can't believe PPL are happy with this deal from what every one has said he is not the player he use to be he is slow and been hurt. So if this is the case plus we have him for a rental we throw away a 3rd we probably will not reach the playoffs even with a what average D man who can hit and can shoot the puck. We needed a goalie who can stop the puck on a consistent bases. Look at TJ where did we pick him just because it is a not so great draft great players can still come out of it JH at 4th TJ I think 4th throwing away picks for rentals is something I thought was just crazy our cupboards are not full contrary to popular belief. We still have a week before the deadline, acquiring a goalie might still be in the works. A 3rd for a defenseman who can play 20mins is dirt cheap. We have a solid chance to make the playoffs and adding a 6'3" physical defenseman when we have 4 games left against LA and 4 more against the other California teams makes us much better. The odds that the 3rd round pick becomes anything at the NHL level are very very slim. Quite honestly our chances of making the playoffs this year are much better than a 3rd rounder becomes anything at the NHL level. When you are this close to making the playoffs you have to do everything you can to help your team out without mortgaging the future . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameFan4Life Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have read many times in the Trade Suggestions thread that Stone was liked, that he would be a great add to the D. It now seems liked the Wideman hate has transferred to him before he has put on a Jersey. I thought as a team, as fans of such a team we were better that this. A lot of the comments in hear actually admit the lack of knowledge of this player and then go on to complain about him using someone else's opinions. First off, just because others say he is slow doesn't make it true if you already admitted not knowing yourself. Bt is familiar with him and really he could have went after so many other players but new something about this guy that helped him pick him. Many players have had surgeries in the past and never lost a beat. I was a big fan of Wideman when we first got him. I can easily admit that for the last two maybe three seasons I have not been a fan or his. I would have payed a 3rd round pick and retained his salary to any team just to take him at this point. Instead of paying someone we replace him with a 26 year old player project that at least saves me from complaining non stop about Wideman. Some it all up, wait and see for yourselves what this will be. Don't get to excited over him wait to you see what he brings. Don't get pissed off over what others think they know of him and take the time to make your own decisions. Your opinion is not something that should be given to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, FlameFan4Life said: I have read many times in the Trade Suggestions thread that Stone was liked, that he would be a great add to the D. It now seems liked the Wideman hate has transferred to him before he has put on a Jersey. I thought as a team, as fans of such a team we were better that this. A lot of the comments in hear actually admit the lack of knowledge of this player and then go on to complain about him using someone else's opinions. Thats just the nature of fans, people lack patience, same thing with people crying for GG to be fired at the beginning of the season, and those same people trying to find reasons for that firing now. Anyways on the note of stone, I found it interesting that one of his comments were "im looking forward to spending less time in my own zone and more time at the oppositions blue line". Looking at the stats it looks to me like he was buried in terms of zone starts, and while we havent dominated the coyotes every game this season, I can see what he is refeering to, the coyotes get crushed at even strength for the most part. These same people who are saying Stone is having a rough year arent looking at the fact that OEL, gologoski, schenn, and murphy are all struggling. Gologoski has done better away from stone apparently, but who knows about the other factors. Stone has been buried at even strength on a bad team, so the stats might not look great. I dont think hes slow, I dont know where everyone is getting that from, is he a great skater like brodie, probably not but hes not dennis wideman either. Im excited to see what he does on our team and a 3rd round pick is peanuts in this draft if hes a good player for the final 23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameFan4Life Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have a feeling that being on the second worst performing team in the league may have had something to do with his numbers in ARI At some point in the season it must become deflating knowing that your team is not performing well and you are probably going to lose. I think it would be very hard to play to your full potential in that situation, make a mistake and you never live it down. It is the same how a team plays different with a goalie they trust in net, one thing can change the whole dynamics of a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, zima said: I don't think you can compare a top 1-2 in Boston at the age of what 22 to a player at his ( Twilight yrs ) Ok that might be a little over rated 26 isn't that old still a few good yrs for a D man but it is only a 3rd but only if he resigns if not we lost a third for maybe a couple of extra wins Maybe? Stills depends on our Goalie and I have no confidence on Elli. A few good games does not make him the Goalie we traded for I think this is a bandage fix but Ok lets see where the chips will fall. If he can play better than what we have now BT did a good move I just read on this forum he is slow and still might be favouring a bad knee. We all know Wides is gone we will not get any return for him he will probably never play in the NHL again. I have said from the start the refs ignore what other teams do to us because of Wides JMO on that situation. By the way I highly doubt the Flames would have given up all those picks if they didn't already have a deal in the works with Hams the delay was probably term. You are saying that a defenseman at age 26 is in the twilight? That is the beginning of the primer for that position. Not everyone is Ekblad who is a top pair guy at age 18. Most come into their primes between age 23 and 26, so yeah, Ekblad will probably get even better. Same goes for Dougie. The goalie has nothing to do with the value of the defender. You have the skills or you don't. You may take some time before you are at the top of your game, like Gio. We paid a 5th just to have the chance to sign Wideman to a bloated contract. A 5th if we actually sign Stone is possibly nothing in 2018. By then we could have better picks from other trades. A 3rd for a player that could stabilize (or help) one of the pairings is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, zima said: I can't believe PPL are happy with this deal from what every one has said he is not the player he use to be he is slow and been hurt. So if this is the case plus we have him for a rental we throw away a 3rd we probably will not reach the playoffs even with a what average D man who can hit and can shoot the puck. We needed a goalie who can stop the puck on a consistent bases. Look at TJ where did we pick him just because it is a not so great draft great players can still come out of it JH at 4th TJ I think 4th throwing away picks for rentals is something I thought was just crazy our cupboards are not full contrary to popular belief. He is recovering from knee surgery, hardly the first hockey player to do this. We need a RHSD to play with Brodie and if Stone can support the likes of OEL then he should be good with Brodie. We have two good goalies and you should be happy this move gets Wideman off the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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