What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

maybe throw in a gym membership?

 

Well, Johnny could use some nutrician classes.

Gio some hair growth treatment.

Neal a new dentall package.

 

[jjgallow]

all about the perks

[Cowtownguy]

On 6/10/2019 at 4:55 PM, travel_dude said:

 

Well, Johnny could use some nutrician classes.

Gio some hair growth treatment.

Neal a new dentall package.

 

I can't even imagine what his dental costs must be. Watching his teeth come out of his mouth that time in slow motion sure was gross. Not Joe Theisman gross, but what can top that? Someone is gonna have to be decapitated to beat that.

 

[Going4TheCup]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:38 PM, GM_3300 said:

Only smooth skating stars should get exceptional money.

Have you Watched Tkachuk play?? He is valueable on any team! I went to see a game where he had 5 points and he is even going to get better. I see the Flames offering him a contract around 8 million dollars a season, hopefully the Flames persuade him to sign for even cheaper!

[Cowtownguy]

4 hours ago, Going4TheCup said:

Have you Watched Tkachuk play?? He is valueable on any team! I went to see a game where he had 5 points and he is even going to get better. I see the Flames offering him a contract around 8 million dollars a season, hopefully the Flames persuade him to sign for even cheaper!

It is really fascinating how some players perform so well without being great skaters. I do remember that Chucky was skating quite well at the beginning of last year. He was surprisingly fast. I wonder if he feels as effective when he does turn on the jets. That is, can he handle the puck as well when he is going fast. Tkachuk will get bank as you said.

 

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

It is really fascinating how some players perform so well without being great skaters. I do remember that Chucky was skating quite well at the beginning of last year. He was surprisingly fast. I wonder if he feels as effective when he does turn on the jets. That is, can he handle the puck as well when he is going fast. Tkachuk will get bank as you said.

 

 

I want a few of the Flames to concentrate on improving their skating.

Some looked painfully slow.

It's the 0 to 60 part that seems the most important.

Learn how to wind up.

Quick off the blocks wins puck battles.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Now that the draft is done and the FA market is soon to open has there been any local rumblings on the status of the Chucky deal?  All I get locally is Jets rumors and nationally all it is is Marner, Marner, Marner.

The fact that Dubas has not officially said the Leafs will match any offer hits that the possibility of accepting an offer is there. How much is too much when it comes to an offer on Chucky?

[Crzydrvr]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Now that the draft is done and the FA market is soon to open has there been any local rumblings on the status of the Chucky deal?  All I get locally is Jets rumors and nationally all it is is Marner, Marner, Marner.

The fact that Dubas has not officially said the Leafs will match any offer hits that the possibility of accepting an offer is there. How much is too much when it comes to an offer on Chucky?

 

At this point, I would brace myself for Tkachuk making over $8.5 million on any deal over 5 years in length. The market is leaning towards young cost-controlled players as no longer being the discounts they used to be. If he gets an 8 year deal Chucky could make $10 million a year. If he's only signing for 5 years, I could see the cap hit falling in the $7.5 to $8 million range, but that's a tough call to make.

 

This might go until September so y'all can laugh at me in 3 months when he signs for $7.5 million x 6 years (which would be as team friendly as things could get in today's NHL).

[robrob74]

21 minutes ago, Crzydrvr said:

 

At this point, I would brace myself for Tkachuk making over $8.5 million on any deal over 5 years in length. The market is leaning towards young cost-controlled players as no longer being the discounts they used to be. If he gets an 8 year deal Chucky could make $10 million a year. If he's only signing for 5 years, I could see the cap hit falling in the $7.5 to $8 million range, but that's a tough call to make.

 

This might go until September so y'all can laugh at me in 3 months when he signs for $7.5 million x 6 years (which would be as team friendly as things could get in today's NHL).

 

I don’t think he’s worth that but I’d be happy 7.5 the way things are going. I don’t think he pushes the needle as much as others think. Offence is ran through Backlund and Gaudreau. Tkachuk has intangibles but I don’t think he drives the line. He will get points yes, but he was really only effective on the PP and didn’t push the 3M line as much as he helped the first year or two. I also think teams just ignore him now and let him try his shenanigans and don’t get pulled in, especially when games matter. I think teams know how to play him now.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t think he’s worth that but I’d be happy 7.5 the way things are going. I don’t think he pushes the needle as much as others think. Offence is ran through Backlund and Gaudreau. Tkachuk has intangibles but I don’t think he drives the line. He will get points yes, but he was really only effective on the PP and didn’t push the 3M line as much as he helped the first year or two. I also think teams just ignore him now and let him try his shenanigans and don’t get pulled in, especially when games matter. I think teams know how to play him now.

He needs to be taken off the shutdown line ifyou're gonna see his offensive potential.

 

I wonder if he could learn to play the right side?

[phoenix66]

I'm actually kind  of curious where people stand on this. Are we more on the side of get him signed whatever it takes? Or on the side of , make sure we don't cave to ridiculous demands?

 

Now of course I have no insight to what either side is doing, I actually believe it will be resolved and we will be amazed at what it comes justify in at team friendly wise.. if the consensus is he's similar to Marner, and seeing what Nylander did last year the potential exists for a standoff 

 

Taking my love for the player out of the equation, if it comes down to a standoff .. I hope BT stands his ground,. Let him sit the entire season if necessary.. it's important one contract not be allowed to handcuff any team 

 

If he gets offer sheeted at 10 or more ?  Let him go.. and that's my opinion of any player..if you're Willing to put money ahead of the team, go play for that team that gave you the money . 

 

Again, I'm confident this will get done in timely fashion, and a level all sides are happy with . Just curious what fans boundaries are 

 

I recall Johnny's holdout ended very shortly after a private meeting and visit from BT..would love to have heard that conversation

[redfire11]

I am on the side of

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

make sure we don't cave to ridiculous demands?

 

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I hope BT stands his ground,. Let him sit the entire season if necessary.. it's important one contract not be allowed to handcuff any team 

 

7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

If he gets offer sheeted at 10 or more

I am If he gets offer sheeted at $8,118,642  or more you take it.

 

So are we a considerably worse team without Tkachuk?  NO

Could we be a considerably better team with multiple 1st rnd picks and an extra 8-10 cap space? YES

[cccsberg]

38 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm actually kind  of curious where people stand on this. Are we more on the side of get him signed whatever it takes? Or on the side of , make sure we don't cave to ridiculous demands?

 

Now of course I have no insight to what either side is doing, I actually believe it will be resolved and we will be amazed at what it comes justify in at team friendly wise.. if the consensus is he's similar to Marner, and seeing what Nylander did last year the potential exists for a standoff 

 

Taking my love for the player out of the equation, if it comes down to a standoff .. I hope BT stands his ground,. Let him sit the entire season if necessary.. it's important one contract not be allowed to handcuff any team 

 

If he gets offer sheeted at 10 or more ?  Let him go.. and that's my opinion of any player..if you're Willing to put money ahead of the team, go play for that team that gave you the money . 

 

Again, I'm confident this will get done in timely fashion, and a level all sides are happy with . Just curious what fans boundaries are 

 

I recall Johnny's holdout ended very shortly after a private meeting and visit from BT..would love to have heard that conversation

I believe the jury is still out on whether the deal gets done or not.  It will likely depend on other RFA deals around the league.   Karlsson’s apparent $5.9mm x 8 years would be a great sign of sanity as does Dubas’ hedging on matching all offer sheets for Marner.  We shall see.  

 

To me, the team always comes first, period.  If Ottawa wants to offer sheet him at $10mm and give us their next 4 years of 1st round picks.... great.  Where do I sign up?

[cccsberg]

Just now, cccsberg said:

I believe the jury is still out on whether the deal gets done or not.  It will likely depend on other RFA deals around the league.   Karlsson’s apparent $5.9mm x 8 years would be a great sign of sanity as does Dubas’ hedging on matching all offer sheets for Marner.  We shall see.  

 

To me, the team always comes first, period.  If Ottawa wants to offer sheet him at $10mm and give us their next 4 years of 1st round picks.... great.  Where do I sign up?

I look at it like this.  Every year every team in the league ends up disappointed, except the SC winner, so as a fan I’m just as invested in the season as the SC.  Since hockey is 100% a team game, and because I’ll always prefer a team giving their all but perhaps being the underdog, versus a team of guys who put an excessive money grab ahead of the team.  

[phoenix66]

Just now, cccsberg said:

 as does Dubas’ hedging on matching alloffer sheets for Marner.  We shall see.  

 

 

This.. I'm typically loathe to give the leafs credit for anything, in fact I enjoy watching them hang themselves..but this was a great move

 

Most teams announce they will match anything..so if it were to happen, the player knows they'll get the contract , but still be with their team. So much like Shea Weber it's a negotiation ploy..  they should know if they sign with another team..be prepared to play for that team

Same with the team.. if you're only doing the offer sheet to cripple the other team..be prepared to honor that contract ..

Keeps all sides honest 

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm actually kind  of curious where people stand on this. Are we more on the side of get him signed whatever it takes? Or on the side of , make sure we don't cave to ridiculous demands?

 

Now of course I have no insight to what either side is doing, I actually believe it will be resolved and we will be amazed at what it comes justify in at team friendly wise.. if the consensus is he's similar to Marner, and seeing what Nylander did last year the potential exists for a standoff 

 

Taking my love for the player out of the equation, if it comes down to a standoff .. I hope BT stands his ground,. Let him sit the entire season if necessary.. it's important one contract not be allowed to handcuff any team 

 

If he gets offer sheeted at 10 or more ?  Let him go.. and that's my opinion of any player..if you're Willing to put money ahead of the team, go play for that team that gave you the money . 

 

Again, I'm confident this will get done in timely fashion, and a level all sides are happy with . Just curious what fans boundaries are 

 

I recall Johnny's holdout ended very shortly after a private meeting and visit from BT..would love to have heard that conversation

 

The value of his contract will not exceed JH's % of the cap.  9.25%.

That's 7.5m

Hard to argue he's worth more than that, but it will be term that comes into play.

6 years at that is reasonable.

BT is not going to offer that right away.

I would prefer they hammer a deal before camp so that he shows up and gets ready for the season.

Too hard to help the team a la Nylander.

 

If he sits for part or all of the season, it would be worse for us than Nylander.

The dollar savings by holding out that long is less than a million usually.

And the lost time gets factored into the value.

 

I feel he helps Backlund more than Backlund helps him.

His PP numbers back that up too.

He's a finisher, and Backlund would be 30 points without him and Frolik.

[robrob74]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The value of his contract will not exceed JH's % of the cap.  9.25%.

That's 7.5m

Hard to argue he's worth more than that, but it will be term that comes into play.

6 years at that is reasonable.

BT is not going to offer that right away.

I would prefer they hammer a deal before camp so that he shows up and gets ready for the season.

Too hard to help the team a la Nylander.

 

If he sits for part or all of the season, it would be worse for us than Nylander.

The dollar savings by holding out that long is less than a million usually.

And the lost time gets factored into the value.

 

I feel he helps Backlund more than Backlund helps him.

His PP numbers back that up too.

He's a finisher, and Backlund would be 30 points without him and Frolik.

 

You could be right, 

but I think you could be discounting what Backs brings and does. He’s very good at pushing the play the other way. Of course his numbers will look better if there are players who can finish. Even Gaudreau’s numbers went down or slowed when Monahan and Lindholm slowed down. So I feel like it’s not fair to pin it on Backlund. Although he can do it to himself because of the kind of chances they’ve missed with him probably could be 10 more points as Backlund can double clutch on shots sometimes. But Backs numbers do improve a bit with Tkachuk but I think he still is the one that pushes play. 

 

i think  the coach has it wrong to load up the first PP and of course Backlund will get more points when playing with better players, every good player will get more points when mixed with the right guys. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

You could be right, 

but I think you could be discounting what Backs brings and does. He’s very good at pushing the play the other way. Of course his numbers will look better if there are players who can finish. Even Gaudreau’s numbers went down or slowed when Monahan and Lindholm slowed down. So I feel like it’s not fair to pin it on Backlund. Although he can do it to himself because of the kind of chances they’ve missed with him probably could be 10 more points as Backlund can double clutch on shots sometimes. But Backs numbers do improve a bit with Tkachuk but I think he still is the one that pushes play. 

 

i think  the coach has it wrong to load up the first PP and of course Backlund will get more points when playing with better players, every good player will get more points when mixed with the right guys. 

 

I think Baclund is fine, but he's not Ryan O'Reilly.

He needs finishers to score points.

He's had good linemates as long as he's played.

But I feel he's the guy you put out there to kill offense, not scpre a ton.

Tkachuk is both and has been effective turning a defensive play into a scoring chance.

If anything he's underrated because of his skating style and speed.

 

I just think the notion that we need Tkachuk playing with Backlund is flawed.

We just don't have the right pieces.

I think it would be interesting to have Tkachuk and Puljujarvi on either side of a offensive center.

Those two know how to shoot and are heavy players.

We're not trading with EDM unless it's Janko or Bennett or Brodie going the other way.

Bennett would hurt us more I think, if he went there.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm actually kind  of curious where people stand on this. Are we more on the side of get him signed whatever it takes? Or on the side of , make sure we don't cave to ridiculous demands?

 

Kyle Dubas screwed the whole league.

 

1. Basically gave Matthews max money but only 5-years.  Only bought one UFA year with max money?  Total fail.  McDavid got what he got because he committed to 8-years...

2. Caved to Nylander.  After making Nylander hold out, Nylander's first year of his new contract paid back the money he would've made if he didn't hold out.  So why would players not hold out on Dubas?  They would get a 4  month vacation and still get paid.

 

And now every RFA is watching what Marner does because they know Dubas will get roasted again.  They can use Marner to set the ceiling.

[GM_3300]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm actually kind  of curious where people stand on this. Are we more on the side of get him signed whatever it takes? Or on the side of , make sure we don't cave to ridiculous demands?

 

Now of course I have no insight to what either side is doing, I actually believe it will be resolved and we will be amazed at what it comes justify in at team friendly wise.. if the consensus is he's similar to Marner, and seeing what Nylander did last year the potential exists for a standoff 

 

Taking my love for the player out of the equation, if it comes down to a standoff .. I hope BT stands his ground,. Let him sit the entire season if necessary.. it's important one contract not be allowed to handcuff any team 

 

If he gets offer sheeted at 10 or more ?  Let him go.. and that's my opinion of any player..if you're Willing to put money ahead of the team, go play for that team that gave you the money . 

 

Again, I'm confident this will get done in timely fashion, and a level all sides are happy with . Just curious what fans boundaries are 

 

I recall Johnny's holdout ended very shortly after a private meeting and visit from BT..would love to have heard that conversation

Someone used 9.5% of the cap towards his salary being used which puts him in at around 7.5M which is where I would like to see him. This the Flames can live with.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Baclund is fine, but he's not Ryan O'Reilly.

He needs finishers to score points.

He's had good linemates as long as he's played.

But I feel he's the guy you put out there to kill offense, not scpre a ton.

Tkachuk is both and has been effective turning a defensive play into a scoring chance.

If anything he's underrated because of his skating style and speed.

 

I just think the notion that we need Tkachuk playing with Backlund is flawed.

We just don't have the right pieces.

I think it would be interesting to have Tkachuk and Puljujarvi on either side of a offensive center.

Those two know how to shoot and are heavy players.

We're not trading with EDM unless it's Janko or Bennett or Brodie going the other way.

Bennett would hurt us more I think, if he went there.

 

You could be right again because there isn’t really anyone else to play the spot. 

[GM_3300]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

You could be right again because there isn’t really anyone else to play the spot. 

If you had a line of Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm I believe you are better offensively and defensively than keeping Frolik around.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Kyle Dubas screwed the whole league.

 

1. Basically gave Matthews max money but only 5-years.  Only bought one UFA year with max money?  Total fail.  McDavid got what he got because he committed to 8-years...

2. Caved to Nylander.  After making Nylander hold out, Nylander's first year of his new contract paid back the money he would've made if he didn't hold out.  So why would players not hold out on Dubas?  They would get a 4  month vacation and still get paid.

 

And now every RFA is watching what Marner does because they know Dubas will get roasted again.  They can use Marner to set the ceiling.

did he even buy one year ? I thought that was the major sore point , he gave him max dollars and marched up to the doorstep

[bosn111]

I think BT has to do something a little different to get Tkachuk signed. It might not be a popular method, but might be more affective. 

 

Make him an initial lowball offer. Use whatever excuse you want being stats, history, limited career, line played on etc, and use a number starting in the 6 - 6.5 range with term that he will still be RFA when contract finishes so 3 years. You stay open to negotiations but use the idea that in 3 more years, the cap goes up, Johnny and Gio's contracts will be up and therefore re-negotiating will likely see a solid pay increase for Chucky with significant term as the cap is likely to have also risen a bit more by then.

 

Once the offer is made, you go out and sign Rittich, Mangiapane, Bennett and a goalie. This leaves only 1 space open on the team without any trades or buyouts and so if Tkachuk really wants to be a Flame, he realizes it and maybe takes the hometown discount with the understanding that his next contract will be better.

 

If an offer sheet comes in over 8.455, I would not match it and instead take 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd pick plus cap space. 

 

Could also use the cap space to grab someone like a Timo Meier from SJ to replace him on the left side (Similar stats, make him similar offer as he is RFA as well). 

 

Space would also allow to trade for RFA's Kapanen or Labanc (Both RW).

 

Basically if you can get Meier + (Kapanen or Labanc) for 10 mil combined or less then I would do that over Tkachuk for 8.5 + as that is better cap and asset management. Especially if to get those players you are moving out cap in the form of Brodie, Stone, Frolik and / or Neal etc.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

I think BT has to do something a little different to get Tkachuk signed. It might not be a popular method, but might be more affective. 

 

Make him an initial lowball offer. Use whatever excuse you want being stats, history, limited career, line played on etc, and use a number starting in the 6 - 6.5 range with term that he will still be RFA when contract finishes so 3 years. You stay open to negotiations but use the idea that in 3 more years, the cap goes up, Johnny and Gio's contracts will be up and therefore re-negotiating will likely see a solid pay increase for Chucky with significant term as the cap is likely to have also risen a bit more by then.

 

Once the offer is made, you go out and sign Rittich, Mangiapane, Bennett and a goalie. This leaves only 1 space open on the team without any trades or buyouts and so if Tkachuk really wants to be a Flame, he realizes it and maybe takes the hometown discount with the understanding that his next contract will be better.

 

If an offer sheet comes in over 8.455, I would not match it and instead take 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd pick plus cap space. 

 

Could also use the cap space to grab someone like a Timo Meier from SJ to replace him on the left side (Similar stats, make him similar offer as he is RFA as well). 

 

Space would also allow to trade for RFA's Kapanen or Labanc (Both RW).

 

Basically if you can get Meier + (Kapanen or Labanc) for 10 mil combined or less then I would do that over Tkachuk for 8.5 + as that is better cap and asset management. Especially if to get those players you are moving out cap in the form of Brodie, Stone, Frolik and / or Neal etc.

So basically you want to lowball him enough that he wants to leave?