Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I think my biggest worry about keeping Gully moving forward is not so much the system he coaches (which is decent for the most part), or the bad decisions he makes from time to time, but the fact that the players appear pretty close to tuning him out if they haven't already.

 

You may not be wrong and honesty this is probably what I fear the most. If you've got players that are going to tune out a coach this fast, and their 2nd in 3 season, well hello mediocrity for the foreseeable future. 

[conundrumed]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You may not be wrong and honesty this is probably what I fear the most. If you've got players that are going to tune out a coach this fast, and their 2nd in 3 season, well hello mediocrity for the foreseeable future. 

The one constant for me in the last, god knows how many years, is entitlement.

Don't throw your stick, whack Johnny's in 2. How about his little trying to dangle a guy on the PP in the 2nd last night? He was the last guy back, it's 4-1 them, the D were ahead of him.

To me, that's entitlement. I'd have told him to go hit the street clothes.

Not the first time.

This team needs a no bs NHL coach and then we'll figure out who the good listeners are.

How about Hamilton? Totally lethargic with the pass in the d zone. If that's a pressing Preds or Ducks team, it's in your net.

Stupid and lazy.

GG has been way too courteous with the bs these "stars" are running with.

 

 

[cross16]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

The one constant for me in the last, god knows how many years, is entitlement.

Don't throw your stick, whack Johnny's in 2. How about his little trying to dangle a guy on the PP in the 2nd last night? He was the last guy back, it's 4-1 them, the D were ahead of him.

To me, that's entitlement. I'd have told him to go hit the street clothes.

Not the first time.

This team needs a no bs NHL coach and then we'll figure out who the good listeners are.

How about Hamilton? Totally lethargic with the pass in the d zone. If that's a pressing Preds or Ducks team, it's in your net.

Stupid and lazy.

GG has been way too courteous with the bs these "stars" are running with.

 

 

 

No I get where you are coming from. Unfortunately I just don't think that flies in the game anymore today. Those coaches get fired awfully quick.

 

Not saying that maybe Gulutzan needs more in the motivation/accountability department, I just don't know a coach can get away with this anymore. I also think this speaks to a lack of leadership because it should not only be on a coach to hold people accountable. I think on greats teams this stuff doesn't happen because you would never want to let down your teammates and that's something that I think Calgary has lacked since the 04 team. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The one constant for me in the last, god knows how many years, is entitlement.

Don't throw your stick, whack Johnny's in 2. How about his little trying to dangle a guy on the PP in the 2nd last night? He was the last guy back, it's 4-1 them, the D were ahead of him.

To me, that's entitlement. I'd have told him to go hit the street clothes.

Not the first time.

This team needs a no bs NHL coach and then we'll figure out who the good listeners are.

How about Hamilton? Totally lethargic with the pass in the d zone. If that's a pressing Preds or Ducks team, it's in your net.

Stupid and lazy.

GG has been way too courteous with the bs these "stars" are running with.

 

 

 

I'm not going to disagree with you.

But.......

 

I really hate the way we try to gain the zone in the first place.  Is it the only move to skate up the ice sideways and dump it back 50 feet to JH?  Like that's some kind of surprise attack?  Saw Hammy do it.  Brodie used to do it every stinkin' time.  Time and a place for it, but do we really need to have JH start back by the goalie?  Couldn't he be at full stride and take a 5 foot pass?

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No I get where you are coming from. Unfortunately I just don't think that flies in the game anymore today. Those coaches get fired awfully quick.

 

Not saying that maybe Gulutzan needs more in the motivation/accountability department, I just don't know a coach can get away with this anymore. I also think this speaks to a lack of leadership because it should not only be on a coach to hold people accountable. I think on greats teams this stuff doesn't happen because you would never want to let down your teammates and that's something that I think Calgary has lacked since the 04 team. 

This is why I have said this team has some maturing to go through yet.

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

I remember after the infamous stick throwing incident,, watching a game a few days later.  There was a bit where Versteeg was going around having fun little interviews with his team mates during the skills competition I think it was.  I was surprised how the players were laughing and joking about 'not having as good a throwing arm as gully' or something to that effect.  Now, if this had been a month later after things had improved somewhat, I could understand, but this was two or three games later.  It was a joke to them.  Tells me the players may like the coach, but they don't really respect him as a leader.

 

I think my biggest worry about keeping Gully moving forward is not so much the system he coaches (which is decent for the most part), or the bad decisions he makes from time to time, but the fact that the players appear pretty close to tuning him out if they haven't already.

I thought the stick throwing incident was just staged drama. In fact, I gave it a low figure skating score. Two days later, I heard Chucky say something similar, except he gave it a good score. To me, that is indicative of what you have stated above. That is, they might think GG is a nice enough coach, but they do not necessarily respect him. Assuming that McGrattan was accurate when he said Hartley was cruel at times, I can see why they would like GG. I think that this may be a problem if indeed GG is thought of in this fashion.

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

I think if we miss the playoffs this year GG is gone. Too much talent for this team not to be a decent lock for the playoffs. Even if they get in, why would they play any different after they just squeak in after a season of playing so inconsistent. Wish we could have gotten Gallant. Florida is kicking themselves for the power trip that other guy went on that took over the team and fired him. Anyone watch Vegas games and/or know how he coaches? There's no way they have more talent then us is there? 

[conundrumed]

50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No I get where you are coming from. Unfortunately I just don't think that flies in the game anymore today. Those coaches get fired awfully quick.

 

Not saying that maybe Gulutzan needs more in the motivation/accountability department, I just don't know a coach can get away with this anymore. I also think this speaks to a lack of leadership because it should not only be on a coach to hold people accountable. I think on greats teams this stuff doesn't happen because you would never want to let down your teammates and that's something that I think Calgary has lacked since the 04 team. 

A coaches job is to instill that though, isn't it?

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said:

I think if we miss the playoffs this year GG is gone. Too much talent for this team not to be a decent lock for the playoffs. Even if they get in, why would they play any different after they just squeak in after a season of playing so inconsistent. Wish we could have gotten Gallant. Florida is kicking themselves for the power trip that other guy went on that took over the team and fired him. Anyone watch Vegas games and/or know how he coaches? There's no way they have more talent then us is there? 

 

They have less high end talent but their bottom 6, 2nd and 3rd D pairing, and starting goalie is better.  Sometimes a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

A coaches job is to instill that though, isn't it?

 

To a small degree yes but I think it's a culture the players cultivate. 

 

I'ts also something i've heard Gulutzn preach to frequently, the idea of "family". Brent Sutter talked about it at length when he got hired and it never happened. I think coaches can plant the seed, players have to buy in and make it grow. Been a while since it happened here but I personally think it's part of the reason great teams are great. 

 

 

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said:

I think if we miss the playoffs this year GG is gone. Too much talent for this team not to be a decent lock for the playoffs. Even if they get in, why would they play any different after they just squeak in after a season of playing so inconsistent. Wish we could have gotten Gallant. Florida is kicking themselves for the power trip that other guy went on that took over the team and fired him. Anyone watch Vegas games and/or know how he coaches? There's no way they have more talent then us is there? 

 

Not as talented, but Vegas is deeper and faster. They don't stop, they pressure all over the ice and can do it with speed and all 4 of their lines. Flames and Gulutzan cannot say the same.

 

the 2 biggest things I take away from Vegas are this. 1 - the power of what you can do when your coach and GM are on the same page and build a club in 1 image. and 2 - the power of how a team can come together. Not to take anything away from Gallant but I think the players in Vegas have really run with the whole "the league didn't want us" mantra and they've thrived. Sometimes a team finds "it" and Vegas did this year and that's incredibly powerful.

[Thebrewcrew]

Any interest in Bill Peters if he becomes available?

 

Yeah he hasn't led Carolina to the playoffs during his tenure, but he has had them on the fringe of the playoff picture every season, despite missing 2 ingredients. They don't have a #1 centre or a #1 goalie. We have that here. Also I don't think he is as much of a teddy bear as Gulutzan

[MAC331]

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

A coaches job is to instill that though, isn't it?

I played on both winning and losing sports teams. Just my opinion but a winning culture starts with the organization and coaching philosophy to which players must buy into or it will never work. Leadership has to be a joint effort of coaches and players but I would say mostly its on the players. Your best players and your Leaders should be able to pull others into the fold so to speak. You also need what I call your "glue" guys, these are sometimes part of the Leadership but usually nurture others to get on board and stay the course. I would say we don't have all the ingredients yet, we might but maybe it all has to get a little more advanced.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Not as talented, but Vegas is deeper and faster. They don't stop, they pressure all over the ice and can do it with speed and all 4 of their lines. Flames and Gulutzan cannot say the same.

 

the 2 biggest things I take away from Vegas are this. 1 - the power of what you can do when your coach and GM are on the same page and build a club in 1 image. and 2 - the power of how a team can come together. Not to take anything away from Gallant but I think the players in Vegas have really run with the whole "the league didn't want us" mantra and they've thrived. Sometimes a team finds "it" and Vegas did this year and that's incredibly powerful.

 

There's something to be said to playing the type of game they do.  Could we do it?  Sure, but we don;t have the depth.  DO we do it?  Nope, that's not the system used.  So here's the thing.  We used to play like that under BH, but it wasn't sustainable.  Not really the same, but more speed than we use now.  We used to score on the rush.  It seems that speed has been replaced with possession.  Slow the game down.  Make perfect passes.  Grind in the corners.  The PP sure looks that way. 

 

I think someone said that BT half-arsed it this summer.  Really, it began when Brouwer was signed.  Get slower players that can hold onto the puck.  Brouwer, Jagr, Stone.  Tkachuk isn;t that slow, but he's slowing the play down and using Jagr moves n the corner.  Mix them in with some faster players and dilute the line speed.  I don;t know if the coach is saying slow down and hold onto the puck or the players are not skilled enough to make plays at speed.       

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

To a small degree yes but I think it's a culture the players cultivate. 

 

I'ts also something i've heard Gulutzn preach to frequently, the idea of "family". Brent Sutter talked about it at length when he got hired and it never happened. I think coaches can plant the seed, players have to buy in and make it grow. Been a while since it happened here but I personally think it's part of the reason great teams are great. 

 

 

 

 

I think great teams are great because there is a great player who holds everyone accountable. Sakic, yzerman, and so on... but they still need a great coach to put it all together.

 

we don’t have that demanding of excellence player to push them through. I think that could be what Mac is referring to when he talks about maturity. 

 

Theres a time in someone’s career where winning is all that matters. What are we willing to do to win? Who’s asking the easy but hard questions. 

 

Hartley is a hard Hash Rate because he has high expectations. Those who tune him out don’t have very high expectations.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I think great teams are great because there is a great player who holds everyone accountable. Sakic, yzerman, and so on... but they still need a great coach to put it all together.

 

we don’t have that demanding of excellence player to push them through. I think that could be what Mac is referring to when he talks about maturity. 

 

Theres a time in someone’s career where winning is all that matters. What are we willing to do to win? Who’s asking the easy but hard questions. 

 

Hartley is a hard Hash Rate because he has high expectations. Those who tune him out don’t have very high expectations.

 

Players tune Hartley out because he is a terrible communicator, and is notorious for playing mind games with his players. He is famous for sitting players out of games without telling them that they aren't playing or talking to them about why they are in the press box. Stuff like that is why you most likely won't see Hartley coaching in this league again.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Players tune Hartley out because he is a terrible communicator, and is notorious for playing mind games with his players. He is famous for sitting players out of games without telling them that they aren't playing or talking to them about why they are in the press box. Stuff like that is why you most likely won't see Hartley coaching in this league again.

 

Ya, I didn’t like his tactics with most. He also had his favourites. But I’d like a coach who could make players accountable. I don’t see GG doing that, especially with his use of Brouwer regardless of how he plays. Sure, he has played better this year, but he gave Brouwer the same treatment for two years when we have other skilled players. 

[redfire11]

7 hours ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said:

I think if we miss the playoffs this year GG is gone. Too much talent for this team not to be a decent lock for the playoffs. Even if they get in, why would they play any different after they just squeak in after a season of playing so inconsistent. Wish we could have gotten Gallant. Florida is kicking themselves for the power trip that other guy went on that took over the team and fired him. Anyone watch Vegas games and/or know how he coaches? There's no way they have more talent then us is there? 

The 3 things I see Galants/Vegas team executing effectively is the aggressive fore check / attack. They also keep their wingers high against the offense defense men. They also form a defensive wall at the blue line with their forwards following the play in. These 3 minor yet important game aspects have limited the amount of shots against as they are in the top 4 or 5 in that category.

I watched Stl use the aggressive fore check in the 1st period against Ana with great success. They got away from it in the 2nd and Ana started to control the game but went back to it in the 3rd and won the game.

Our system collapses back in front of our goalie allowing easy zone entry and multiple shots on goal ( middle in the league in that stat). In Gallant's system we would be benching our slow forwards and our defense would be more involved. He has made Engelland look like a rock star.

[rickross]

On March 9, 2018 at 8:24 AM, MAC331 said:

I guess both of you missed the lack of scoring and answers to some of the whys ? missed shots and stuff like that. A Coach can't shoot the puck for you. Maybe it is time to quit blaming the system and start blaming a lack of execution at times. This is where your inconsistencies come from ad it has been said many time we need some better players yet and we also need the good ones we have to keep growing and leading.

I saw the stats on missed shots and crossbars/posts hit. You're right, a coach can't shoot the puck for their players but they can coach their players on how to better shoot the puck. Those stats are a collective stat, that's the problem. It reflects an ineffective team that consistently struggles to put pucks on net. That's an X and O's problem IMO, poor player positioning and a lack of adjusting on the fly. 

 

As as far the lack of execution and inconsistencies, that's why there's practice. That's on the coaches, these missed shots and crossbars should have been ironed out in practice. Teams are always looking for better players but I think the Flames have enough skill to atleast put pucks on the net. Flames aren't making the playoffs with shot %'s like this and it's not the only area of concern this team needs to address. 

 

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, redfire11 said:

The 3 things I see Galants/Vegas team executing effectively is the aggressive fore check / attack. They also keep their wingers high against the offense defense men. They also form a defensive wall at the blue line with their forwards following the play in. These 3 minor yet important game aspects have limited the amount of shots against as they are in the top 4 or 5 in that category.

I watched Stl use the aggressive fore check in the 1st period against Ana with great success. They got away from it in the 2nd and Ana started to control the game but went back to it in the 3rd and won the game.

Our system collapses back in front of our goalie allowing easy zone entry and multiple shots on goal ( middle in the league in that stat). In Gallant's system we would be benching our slow forwards and our defense would be more involved. He has made Engelland look like a rock star.

We have a number of slower forwards (a few our best players) who you don't want riding the pine. How anyone can watch this team and say our defensemen are not involved isn't watching the same team I see.

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

I saw the stats on missed shots and crossbars/posts hit. You're right, a coach can't shoot the puck for their players but they can coach their players on how to better shoot the puck. Those stats are a collective stat, that's the problem. It reflects an ineffective team that consistently struggles to put pucks on net. That's an X and O's problem IMO, poor player positioning and a lack of adjusting on the fly. 

 

As as far the lack of execution and inconsistencies, that's why there's practice. That's on the coaches, these missed shots and crossbars should have been ironed out in practice. Teams are always looking for better players but I think the Flames have enough skill to atleast put pucks on the net. Flames aren't making the playoffs with shot %'s like this and it's not the only area of concern this team needs to address. 

 

You make it all sound so easy. Practise = Perfection. Every player in the world wishes for this formula, just doesn't happen. Levels of performance becomes the track record for individuals and teams. Should the problems persist then yes you need to make changes.

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Ya, I didn’t like his tactics with most. He also had his favourites. But I’d like a coach who could make players accountable. I don’t see GG doing that, especially with his use of Brouwer regardless of how he plays. Sure, he has played better this year, but he gave Brouwer the same treatment for two years when we have other skilled players. 

I don't care who you are if you are being paid 4.5M a coach is going to try and get some use out of you. I don't think as a coach you want to try and show up the GM that hired you by not using that player. Once again, Brouwer is not the reason this team is inconsistent with its efforts.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't care who you are if you are being paid 4.5M a coach is going to try and get some use out of you. I don't think as a coach you want to try and show up the GM that hired you by not using that player. Once again, Brouwer is not the reason this team is inconsistent with its efforts.

 

I dunno. I’d hate to never be on the PP if I were Bennett, who has way more talent. I give him credit for not pulling a Druoin and asking for a trade yet. Albeit, maybe he doesn’t have much proof due to his numbers, but he could say he could be utilized better in a different city. 

 

I dont see bennett as someone who isn’t trying. The results just aren’t coming. 

[tmac70]

16 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You make it all sound so easy. Practise = Perfection. Every player in the world wishes for this formula, just doesn't happen. Levels of performance becomes the track record for individuals and teams. Should the problems persist then yes you need to make changes.

So they practice for what reason other than to improve. The problems are so over whelming but some refuse to acknowledge this. These guys have been playing high level hockey for double digits, but you play the way the coach structures.

Coaches ONLY put forth a roster they believe give them the best chance to win, PERIOD.

 

I remember D Sutter sat Conroy and Iggy in his early part of his tender when they made the 04 run. Pretty much told them if that's the effort your giving us, your better off just watching, I agree. Gully has no winning record and never has, winning is a culture a system set in place early on.  For me I agree with Smith there are far to many passengers and no consistent effort at all with this that's a learned behavior. If you practice the way you play, how is it working. The confidence issues are taught and are a culture thin which starts and needed to be addressed early on, pretty sure if he benches a guy he would get backing from his GM. As I said before luck favors those whose are best prepared.

[MAC331]

28 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So they practice for what reason other than to improve. The problems are so over whelming but some refuse to acknowledge this. These guys have been playing high level hockey for double digits, but you play the way the coach structures.

Coaches ONLY put forth a roster they believe give them the best chance to win, PERIOD.

 

I remember D Sutter sat Conroy and Iggy in his early part of his tender when they made the 04 run. Pretty much told them if that's the effort your giving us, your better off just watching, I agree. Gully has no winning record and never has, winning is a culture a system set in place early on.  For me I agree with Smith there are far to many passengers and no consistent effort at all with this that's a learned behavior. If you practice the way you play, how is it working. The confidence issues are taught and are a culture thin which starts and needed to be addressed early on, pretty sure if he benches a guy he would get backing from his GM. As I said before luck favors those whose are best prepared.

Sure you practise to improve aspects of your game. What is so over whelming ? or should you be saying "over coming" the aspects they have mastered yet ? You have consistently tried to compare this team to the top teams which IMO has set you up for the opinions you have about them.

Coaches should put out the best roster that gives them the best chance to win, I agree. I see a team that lacks depth and especially experienced depth that would better the effort on most nights.

Going back to the old style of coaching or managing only works in small doses these days. Let's not forget that this is a team that has at least 3 high level players that are still breaking in more or less in Tkachuk, Bennett and Jankowski. You are getting various results this season which holds a team back. We need these players in their positions to be further advanced.

I wouldn't ever say GG is doing everything right but he certainly isn't doing everything wrong either. I would actually say in the last month we are seeing the team play their best hockey but they still won't win every game. There will be some change this offseason so we will see what BT decides regarding GG.