Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

To each his own but the negative rhetoric around here has become intolerable for me. Best of luck all. 

Because of this line DD.

Is "Best of luck all" a sign off?

That's the way I read it.

Perfect example of everyone loves to hear themselves talk on the internet, not many listen near as well.

cross has always been well worth listening to.

[DirtyDeeds]

33 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Because of this line DD.

Is "Best of luck all" a sign off?

That's the way I read it.

Perfect example of everyone loves to hear themselves talk on the internet, not many listen near as well.

cross has always been well worth listening to.

If that is what Cross meant, there are more reasons than just some negativity towards his thoughts from Carty. I don't always agree with Cross and some of his thoughts are of little interest to me. That can be said for a lot of posters here. I just don't bother to read those or rehash them is all. If it bothers me I leave the thread alone... 

 

When I first came to these boards just about everyone was negative. It was so bad there was just myself and a small group called the army of positivity or something close. Seriously 90+ % was all negative.

 

I remember one of the mods  (Barney Gumble) had to step into one particularly negative thread, all seemingly against my positive message and tell everyone that I was a breath of fresh air on the boards. I still remember that action and it is what the mods are for. To keep the discussion civil no matter how adamant some can get.

 

These boards have come a long way from those days and people will come and go with even myself taking a long break after some frustrating times.

[Cowtownguy]

34 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

When I first came to these boards just about everyone was negative. It was so bad there was just myself and a small group called the army of positivity or something close. Seriously 90+ % was all negative.

 

I remember one of the mods  (Barney Gumble) had to step into one particularly negative thread, all seemingly against my positive message and tell everyone that I was a breath of fresh air on the boards. I still remember that action and it is what the mods are for. To keep the discussion civil no matter how adamant some can get.

 

These boards have come a long way from those days and people will come and go with even myself taking a long break after some frustrating times.

That is rather interesting. I have been pretty impressed by the good nature of most posts here. When I have lurked the Vancouver or the Edmonton sites, I have been struck by how nasty people get. I used to frequent political websites that were friendlier than those two at times. I always wondered if the boards largely mirrored the culture of the city. Your response leads me to believe that it is the result of a concerted effort by mods etc.

 

 

[JustAFlamer]

Not sure how you consider what in here as overly-negative. 100% is opinions.  90% is basically backed up with some sort of thinking process behind it (not always agree with the thinking, but that why it called an opinion).

---

In terms of GG what i see is a good/great assistant coach (can crunch the #'s, see trends, see what "should" work, massive video review, etc)

 

The negativity on GG is that it is not translating into a "head" coach.

What many see as stubbornness (including myself) is strict adherence to what the statistical analysis comes out as. (aka This "should" be optimal) and then beating it to death for 3-4months before finally admitting that Hey, the players are people, and that overly-strict adherence regardless of the players have. is unsuitable unless coaching a team of robots.

---

The one plus i have seen lately is have seen flashes of emotion (like he cares) last couple games. 

The downside is still there that cannot adapt mid-game (on the fly) and requires that extra analysis. 

 

Lately we have had comeback wins, but that comes from abandoning the "wait for them to make mistake then that will be our offense" to allowing offensive push to catch up mid-game (cannot expect to always play from-behind and win consistently)

 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, JustAFlamer said:

Not sure how you consider what in here as overly-negative. 100% is opinions.  90% is basically backed up with some sort of thinking process behind it (not always agree with the thinking, but that why it called an opinion).

---

In terms of GG what i see is a good/great assistant coach (can crunch the #'s, see trends, see what "should" work, massive video review, etc)

 

The negativity on GG is that it is not translating into a "head" coach.

What many see as stubbornness (including myself) is strict adherence to what the statistical analysis comes out as. (aka This "should" be optimal) and then beating it to death for 3-4months before finally admitting that Hey, the players are people, and that overly-strict adherence regardless of the players have. is unsuitable unless coaching a team of robots.

---

The one plus i have seen lately is have seen flashes of emotion (like he cares) last couple games. 

The downside is still there that cannot adapt mid-game (on the fly) and requires that extra analysis. 

 

Lately we have had comeback wins, but that comes from abandoning the "wait for them to make mistake then that will be our offense" to allowing offensive push to catch up mid-game (cannot expect to always play from-behind and win consistently)

 

We are all passionate fans on here and we all get carried away every now and then on the performance of the team. We along with the team have to push through the rough spots within a season.

[JustAFlamer]

last night was half-decent, boring game.

boring games will come and go just need to deal with it.

 

BUT : 40 sec left lets throw out the 4th line, understood is basically a second shutdown line.  They did well so getting minutes is fine, but it is the oddity of (consistent) usage in clutch situations when they continually get hemmed in and give up good opportunity.  Really - no one else was ready to take a 40 sec shift? (they wound up with good zone pressure and got good opportunity)

 

PP : Yes this is cameron, and yes losing versteeg hurt.  But eventually you would think it comes down to head coach. Another example of - it worked earlier in season, lets just keep beating a dead horse.

With EVERY team waiting for the drop-pass and having to struggle to make that pass just to get set up; Flames could adapt. 

Cannot constantly expect gaudreau to pull 4 guys to him and get entry clean.  Throw other teams for a loop and let brodie fake the drop and skate it all the way in (trapping 2 guys in center waiting for gaudreau) or toss backlund/bennett out there and give multiple entry options (they both kind of wasted on second PP with the chip and chase entry they do.

 

I will admit they are playing better BUT it is the glaring strange player usage and strategies that are just mind boggling

[The_People1]

On 12/10/2017 at 8:26 PM, DirtyDeeds said:

If that is what Cross meant, there are more reasons than just some negativity towards his thoughts from Carty. I don't always agree with Cross and some of his thoughts are of little interest to me. That can be said for a lot of posters here. I just don't bother to read those or rehash them is all. If it bothers me I leave the thread alone... 

 

When I first came to these boards just about everyone was negative. It was so bad there was just myself and a small group called the army of positivity or something close. Seriously 90+ % was all negative.

 

I remember one of the mods  (Barney Gumble) had to step into one particularly negative thread, all seemingly against my positive message and tell everyone that I was a breath of fresh air on the boards. I still remember that action and it is what the mods are for. To keep the discussion civil no matter how adamant some can get.

 

These boards have come a long way from those days and people will come and go with even myself taking a long break after some frustrating times.

 

You only ever quote me to tell me I'm wrong.

 

Am I right?  

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, JustAFlamer said:

last night was half-decent, boring game.

boring games will come and go just need to deal with it.

 

BUT : 40 sec left lets throw out the 4th line, understood is basically a second shutdown line.  They did well so getting minutes is fine, but it is the oddity of (consistent) usage in clutch situations when they continually get hemmed in and give up good opportunity.  Really - no one else was ready to take a 40 sec shift? (they wound up with good zone pressure and got good opportunity)

 

PP : Yes this is cameron, and yes losing versteeg hurt.  But eventually you would think it comes down to head coach. Another example of - it worked earlier in season, lets just keep beating a dead horse.

With EVERY team waiting for the drop-pass and having to struggle to make that pass just to get set up; Flames could adapt. 

Cannot constantly expect gaudreau to pull 4 guys to him and get entry clean.  Throw other teams for a loop and let brodie fake the drop and skate it all the way in (trapping 2 guys in center waiting for gaudreau) or toss backlund/bennett out there and give multiple entry options (they both kind of wasted on second PP with the chip and chase entry they do.

 

I will admit they are playing better BUT it is the glaring strange player usage and strategies that are just mind boggling

 

The players dictate the play.  1st unit is 4F.  Used to be either JH or Versteeg that would carry the puck in, but has basically defaulted to JH because he's the only one that can do it.  Brodie used to be good at doing it, but all he does now is turn around and fire the pass back to Gaudreau.  Many teams employ that strategy, but it works about 50% with a good player.  

 

The second unit is more traditional.  Dump and chase with speed.  Enter the zone while passing.  

 

Practice isn;t going to help if you are using the same approach every game. 

 

I don't agree with a unit having two guys that are QB'ing the play, in this case both JH and Brodie.  I would like to see a different set up entirely.  Set up the units as follows:

Janko-Monahan-JH

Ferland-Stone

JH is the QB on the right side half wall.  He has options for a one-timer (Stone) or down low to Monahan or Janko.  Janko has options of passing to Ferland for a shot from the point or one of the forwards. 

 

Bennett-Backlund-Tkachuk

Brodie-Hamilton 

Hamilton for the point shot, Brodie QB.  Down low passing and gritty goals or screening by Tkachuk.

 

[Flyerfan52]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:51 PM, Cowtownguy said:

You want to see negative rhetoric!? I was going to buy tickets for a Flames' game and then looked at my bank account. Ticketmaster said with the amount of cash I have, my only option was PL182 or watching the homeless guy juggle one ball on the street. 

 

I gave GG the benefit of the doubt last year. I think that he is a good communicator and seems likeable enough. I don't understand his player selections sometimes. I think his selections adversely impact some games. I often wonder what he does to prepare for games because sometimes the team does not look prepared at all. I am not going to call for his head, but I am not going to be upset when he is replaced either.

 

I am not sure that people are especially negative about GG per se. It is just that the nature of the thread is likely to produce criticism. Even if you inserted Badger Bob or Terry Crisp instead of GG in the thread title, the posts would be more about what needs to be done rather than how amazing the coach is. 

1st high lighted. Almost spit beer on my screen. Good 1 CT

 

2nd, so did I. Every year we see what a mid season coaching change does to fire up a team.

Unless the idea is to build via the draft & develop your own like the Jets did (seemingly sucessfully) & the Flyers look to be doing (definately a work in process but Hex only has 3 years in as GM) the GM can afford to give the coach the same leeway he expects from ownership. If it's done without bottoming out (the sink to the bottom in hopes that gets you to the top of the mountain some teams use to no avail) a stable ownership allows that.

The Flames are in a win now situation. They have to be as they've traded away tomorrow to try to win today. If you want to win now you need a balance of good vets (Backlund, Frolik, Gio, Smith, Hamonic & a few others) & youth (Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk) and bringing in other youth as they prove ready. The leaders try to meld the players into a cohesive group as any player worth having is in the game to win.

It is up to the coach to decide who plays & where. Unless he does that by playing to the strengths of the whole he isn't performing his job.

 

If a player that used to play 1st line is moved back to a lower line because a different player seems to fit better & buys in because Ws > personal stats odds are the coach had a sit down with him before & explained that it's not him lacking but rather that in the here & now his skills are more valuable on that 3rd/4th line. When players are wondering why they are playing unfavorable matchups so often (especially @ home with the last line change) you know that room is gone.

[Flyerfan52]

31 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You only ever quote me to tell me I'm wrong.

 

Am I right?  

Couldn't load that ? any better.

[Carty]

On 12/10/2017 at 6:51 PM, Cowtownguy said:

my only option was PL182 or watching the homeless guy juggle one ball on the street. 

 

That must be the guy I read about in the paper that got arrested for indecent exposure a couple of blocks from the Dome..

[DirtyDeeds]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

You only ever quote me to tell me I'm wrong.

 

Am I right?  

Nope you are wrong: 

No corrections or telling you that you are wrong here...

 

 

Then again by me replying is that telling you that you are wrong.

 

or

 

You might be still feeling the effects of my arguments over in the "tanking for a high draft" pick thread.

[Cowtownguy]

I would like to know how much GG relies upon statistics to guide his decisions. Does he rely upon them so heavily that he overplays guys like Brouwer? I don't think that NHL statistics have developed enough to be particularly useful. I doubt that they tell you much more than what you can see just by watching. For some reason, the GM in Arizona loves his stats, but ignores the most important ones, points and ranking.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I would like to know how much GG relies upon statistics to guide his decisions. Does he rely upon them so heavily that he overplays guys like Brouwer? I don't think that NHL statistics have developed enough to be particularly useful. I doubt that they tell you much more than what you can see just by watching. For some reason, the GM in Arizona loves his stats, but ignores the most important ones, points and ranking.

 

He does rely on stats, but he must be reading different ones than me.

[Cowtownguy]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

He does rely on stats, but he must be reading different ones than me.

Brouwer on the PP is not statistically feasible. I wonder if GG has looked at stats which tell him that a player like Brouwer (i.e. size, age, speed) is effective on the PP in theory. I figure that GG is an NHL coach and I am not because he knows more than I do. I just struggle to understand some of his decisions including an unwillingness to change up things. 

[robrob74]

17 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Brouwer on the PP is not statistically feasible. I wonder if GG has looked at stats which tell him that a player like Brouwer (i.e. size, age, speed) is effective on the PP in theory. I figure that GG is an NHL coach and I am not because he knows more than I do. I just struggle to understand some of his decisions including an unwillingness to change up things. 

 

Maybe he’s really vocal on the ice?

 

Size in front? But Ferland can give you that plus his wicked shot.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

Brouwer on the PP is not statistically feasible. I wonder if GG has looked at stats which tell him that a player like Brouwer (i.e. size, age, speed) is effective on the PP in theory. I figure that GG is an NHL coach and I am not because he knows more than I do. I just struggle to understand some of his decisions including an unwillingness to change up things. 

 

Having a big guy in front of the net is fine if he can do something there.  Like deflect.  Cause two players to leave their position.  Tap in a rebound.

I've see Brouwer stop more shots from the point than deflect or tap in.  

[Cowtownguy]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Having a big guy in front of the net is fine if he can do something there.  Like deflect.  Cause two players to leave their position.  Tap in a rebound.

I've see Brouwer stop more shots from the point than deflect or tap in.  

I am kind of surprised that has not worked out for us. He doesn't even have to tap in the puck. Others can do that. Brouwer does not seem very effective at screening goalies at all while guys like Buff in the 'peg are great at it. How does that work? Given how often my wife complains about me being a better door than a window when I am in front of the tv, I think I would be better at it. 

 

The only attribute that I like in Brouwer is he is willing to ante up when conflict arises. We witnessed that when LA looked like they were going to target Chucky (after Chucky smacked dough boy in the face).

[DirtyDeeds]

On 12/13/2017 at 8:23 PM, Cowtownguy said:

I would like to know how much GG relies upon statistics to guide his decisions. Does he rely upon them so heavily that he overplays guys like Brouwer? I don't think that NHL statistics have developed enough to be particularly useful. I doubt that they tell you much more than what you can see just by watching. For some reason, the GM in Arizona loves his stats, but ignores the most important ones, points and ranking.

I would suggest that you are really talking about "Advanced Stats" and yes Florida and Arizona both are heavily invested in advanced stats enough to build teams around some of them.

 

Points and ranking have nothing to do with Adanced stats.

 

you are correct advanced stats don't correlate well to NHL. Mostly because of the team elements in the NHL game and they are still very young. The methods of collection leaves a lot of room for differences from team to team.  

 

Baseball however has mature advanced stats and are very well developed to have good meaning.

[travel_dude]

Have one question - who is going to be the 17th?

[Thebrewcrew]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Have one question - who is going to be the 17th?

If ownership goes cheap again I have a feeling we will all disappointed. I might be kicking a dead horse here but we absolutely should have payed up and hired Boudreau, say what you want about his lack of playoff success but he gets it done during the regular season and this team hasn't had a dominant season since 05/06 . We have a better young core than MIN and he would get a chance to stick it to the Ducks as they are a divisional rival. However ownership cheaped out and we got GG, heck even Yeo chose to be an assistant to Hitch last year than to be our head coach for a full season

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If ownership goes cheap again I have a feeling we will all disappointed. I might be kicking a dead horse here but we absolutely should have payed up and hired Boudreau, say what you want about his lack of playoff success but he gets it done during the regular season and this team hasn't had a dominant season since 05/06 . We have a better young core than MIN and he would get a chance to stick it to the Ducks as they are a divisional rival. However ownership cheaped out and we got GG, heck even Yeo chose to be an assistant to Hitch last year than to be our head coach for a full season

 

I personally hate BB hockey.  It's actually worse than GG hockey.  I'm not a fan of this current coach, but that has nothing to do with why I would like a new one.  The system looks old and tired.  Very little is based on speed.  Send in a single forechecker.  Yet, we scored two goals on a fast play (JH's goal) and two players being in on the forecheck.

 

Maybe it's the players, but the scoring has dried up at the same time that they have started playing better defensively.  The PP is on life support.

[tmac70]

Never was a fan of Gully, really whats his resume. So we fire Hartley to bring someone in with no track record of success. How is he chosen over Green , Yeo, Bodreau or Bochear (spelling). From a business sense you have 70millon on the ice and hire a .25 cent coach, in what Blockchaining realm of logic does that make sense

[redfire11]

I was just looking at our

Hockey Club Personnel

and saw from Burke down to GG there are 14 people (all hockey professionals).

I guess if these 14 (hockey professionals) see the Flames heading in the right direction then there is no reason to place any of the Flames failure to live up to expectations on GG.

So the Executive branch should start by replacing Burke.

[The_People1]

On 12/13/2017 at 6:20 PM, DirtyDeeds said:

Nope you are wrong: 

No corrections or telling you that you are wrong here...

 

 

Then again by me replying is that telling you that you are wrong.

 

or

 

You might be still feeling the effects of my arguments over in the "tanking for a high draft" pick thread.

 

Well hey, if everyone agreed with everyone then we wouldn't need to have a message board.