travel_dude Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 15 hours ago, The_People1 said: It in itself was an innocent play but Bennett's PIMs have been hurting us all season. When we drafted him, one thing to note was high PIMs. Some sold that as a positive to suggest he plays on the edge and plays chippy. We are fast realizing that's not entirely true. He takes a large amount of penalties out of desperation from getting beat. Many times, these penalties occur in the offensive zone where getting beat doesn't even hurt us positionally. That and penalties away from the play. Needless and unforced. Overall, just not smart penalties that save a goal or sends a message. Gutsy call to bench him. GG also benched Wideman early into the season and had an alleged argument with GG a few days ago about being taken off the PP... BH would've played favorites in both cases. I don't have a problem with calling out a player in the room. Monahan has been less than effective, but gets a free pass. Wideman gets benched for lazy play. It's pretty easy to see it. You can only send a message when the infraction is needless. I don't see the one he took against the Sharks that way. It was an iffy call. He didn't impede the player. But anyway. Bennett plays the way Brouwer does, but gets more calls. He's chippy, so he gets into little scrums. He could avoid it a bit better, but he's very similar to Tkachuk. He does not back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 The Flames have traditionally been rather decent to most coaches if memory serves. That is, they generally give a coach a whole year of results before pulling the plug. I think that is a good idea because it gives the coach time to make adjustments, and it tells the players that the inmates are not going to run the asylum. If you turn against the coach, you have an entire year of losing to experience. Hartley had fewer solid players than does GG, but they are still growing and maturing, and I suppose there are still problems of the group gelling into the new system. All it takes is one player on each line making mistakes to mess with everyone. If they are not truly looking better by February, then I think we need to reconsider this coaching hire and bring in Krueger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 7 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: The Flames have traditionally been rather decent to most coaches if memory serves. That is, they generally give a coach a whole year of results before pulling the plug. I think that is a good idea because it gives the coach time to make adjustments, and it tells the players that the inmates are not going to run the asylum. If you turn against the coach, you have an entire year of losing to experience. Hartley had fewer solid players than does GG, but they are still growing and maturing, and I suppose there are still problems of the group gelling into the new system. All it takes is one player on each line making mistakes to mess with everyone. If they are not truly looking better by February, then I think we need to reconsider this coaching hire and bring in Krueger. Thats the best way to look at it. Most people say a coach needs about 40 games before you start seeing what you really have with a new coach. I dont think its fair after 14 games at what 5-8-1 to say this team is a failure. I dont think its just the systems, big name players not performing is a problem to. But all this talk about GG being fired already is just nonsense, its 14 games and we havent played bad hockey all season so far, we have had ups and downs so far, lacking consistency to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 17 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: Thats the best way to look at it. Most people say a coach needs about 40 games before you start seeing what you really have with a new coach. I dont think its fair after 14 games at what 5-8-1 to say this team is a failure. I dont think its just the systems, big name players not performing is a problem to. But all this talk about GG being fired already is just nonsense, its 14 games and we havent played bad hockey all season so far, we have had ups and downs so far, lacking consistency to be sure. I don't think the "fire him" talk is this board, just for clarification, but I know what you're saying. Asking questions/raising concerns isn't the same as calling for his head though. Being critical leads to debate, and that's what it's all about. e.g. right now I call JG cherry turnover, but in the same vein, I can't wait until he smashes it in my face. Call it reverse psychology lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 20 minutes ago, conundrumed said: I don't think the "fire him" talk is this board, just for clarification, but I know what you're saying. Asking questions/raising concerns isn't the same as calling for his head though. Being critical leads to debate, and that's what it's all about. e.g. right now I call JG cherry turnover, but in the same vein, I can't wait until he smashes it in my face. Call it reverse psychology lol. Actually it's Cherry Hill turnover (or Carney's Point). He's a turnover machine right now from lack of trust/results from his linemates. He shouldn't expect to have to carry the puck in every time, but he had more success last year than anyone else doing it. He should be getting his linemates to bring the puck with speed, and he can sneak in behind the defenders to pick it up. Or he should be doing the same. Some times. It's very much like the stretch pass. If you do it most of the time, the other team will anticipate it. Mix it up. Use your linemates. Use the defense. Ooops, this ins't a JG thread, so excuse the rambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Actually it's Cherry Hill turnover (or Carney's Point). He's a turnover machine right now from lack of trust/results from his linemates. He shouldn't expect to have to carry the puck in every time, but he had more success last year than anyone else doing it. He should be getting his linemates to bring the puck with speed, and he can sneak in behind the defenders to pick it up. Or he should be doing the same. Some times. It's very much like the stretch pass. If you do it most of the time, the other team will anticipate it. Mix it up. Use your linemates. Use the defense. Ooops, this ins't a JG thread, so excuse the rambling. No big. A big part of maybe is the problem right now is intensity. It's leading to too many PK's right now, as opposed to sustaining intensity. Take away bad penalties, we'll be okay. GG's getting close. But it's Dallas, NYR, Minny in the headlights, so hopefully we get sorted, soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-show/glen-gulutzan-big-show/ A long segment, but at least you get a sense of what he is thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Gaudreau has always turned the puck over, it is magnified by his lack of production. You can live with it while he is helping the team win, but when he isnt scoring, and those turnovers turn into goals, he is hurting the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 27 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Gaudreau has always turned the puck over, it is magnified by his lack of production. You can live with it while he is helping the team win, but when he isnt scoring, and those turnovers turn into goals, he is hurting the team. He also used to lead the team in take-aways. He is not doing that at all this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: Gaudreau has always turned the puck over, it is magnified by his lack of production. You can live with it while he is helping the team win, but when he isnt scoring, and those turnovers turn into goals, he is hurting the team. He has but they are up this year too. Over half a turnover more per 60 mins then he did last year. My biggest thing is the location/situation and frequency of the turnovers. You can live with certain turnovers,but you can't live with turnovers in bad situations. Right now Gaudreau is turning the puck over in some very critical situations, namely rushes the other way and just inside the blueline when his linemates have already passes so he's giving up odd man rushes the other way. Has to do a better job of understanding situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I think that is where basic hockey sense comes in. He needs to sometimes chip it past the defenders and then go retrieve the puck. Sometimes you just gotta do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 36 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I think that is where basic hockey sense comes in. He needs to sometimes chip it past the defenders and then go retrieve the puck. Sometimes you just gotta do it. True, but in his defence when you chip and chase you are likely going to wind up in a board battle. At 5'9 and a generous 170lbs you can imagine why Gaudreau would have hesistations about wanting to play a dump and chase game. That's where you need to utilize your linemates and have your linemates step up. Rim hard around the boards so the weak side winger can pick it up or let guys liike Chiasson/Monahan go win a board battle for you. He's just doing too much on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 I would have preferred Ralph Krueger at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 13 hours ago, rickross said: I would have preferred Ralph Krueger at this point I preferred him in the first place, but he may be unattainable. The Oil sure messed that up. The consummate player's coach. "Best coach not in the NHL" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Duhatchuk interviewed Kruger at the World Cup. Apparently he is under contract to Southampton for another 2-3 years and has no intention of breaking that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 20 minutes ago, cross16 said: Duhatchuk interviewed Kruger at the World Cup. Apparently he isn't under contract to Southampton for another 2-3 years and has no intention of breaking that contract. is or isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 51 minutes ago, robrob74 said: is or isn't? is. I'm not sure if cross' autocorrect screws him over or what. Whatever it is, it's easy to overlook after awhile because his thoughts are educated, informed and very balanced for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 So... GG. The collective wisdom on here is admirable: Give the coach time for his system to work. And, we will do just that. But a quick dose of reality: Teams typically play their best hockey in the first 10-20 games for a New Coach. Call it adrenaline. And, we Are seeing that New Coach effort, just not New Coach results. After that point, performance typically drops off. That's right... there is a very real possibility that things could get worse. Not many teams fire their Coach of the Year that fast. Let me say....it sure looks, now, like we fired a Coach of the Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 I remember when we first announced the hiring of GG, we saw video of GG hosting seminars on how to play as a defensemen in the NHL. Like, he wrote the textbook on it. He even drooled at the thought of coaching our D-corp in his first press conference. Man, our D is now our weakest link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 52 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I remember when we first announced the hiring of GG, we saw video of GG hosting seminars on how to play as a defensemen in the NHL. Like, he wrote the textbook on it. He even drooled at the thought of coaching our D-corp in his first press conference. Man, our D is now our weakest link. But it's still fun to watch you 2 retards be experts. There are things, sure. Panic stations? Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 7 hours ago, conundrumed said: But it's still fun to watch you 2 retards be experts. There are things, sure. Panic stations? Not really. Had a good friday night I see.... Hope you can sleep it off, make sure to drink lots of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 9 hours ago, jjgallow said: So... GG. The collective wisdom on here is admirable: Give the coach time for his system to work. And, we will do just that. But a quick dose of reality: Teams typically play their best hockey in the first 10-20 games for a New Coach. Call it adrenaline. And, we Are seeing that New Coach effort, just not New Coach results. After that point, performance typically drops off. That's right... there is a very real possibility that things could get worse. Not many teams fire their Coach of the Year that fast. Let me say....it sure looks, now, like we fired a Coach of the Year. There would be no issue with letting Hartley go if Gully's staff have shown dramatic change, they have not. We look similar to worse than last season. There are teachers and coaches GG, seems to be more of a teacher than a coach. Coaches can pull strings and push buttons to get players motivated, I don't see that in GG. He is a system guy, analytic X and O and it shows on the ice. When a coach tells me they are trying it's disaster waiting to happen. Trying leads to thinking, thinking leads to indecision, indecision leads to mistakes...any of this sound familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, tmac70 said: There would be no issue with letting Hartley go if Gully's staff have shown dramatic change, they have not. We look similar to worse than last season. There are teachers and coaches GG, seems to be more of a teacher than a coach. Coaches can pull strings and push buttons to get players motivated, I don't see that in GG. He is a system guy, analytic X and O and it shows on the ice. When a coach tells me they are trying it's disaster waiting to happen. Trying leads to thinking, thinking leads to indecision, indecision leads to mistakes...any of this sound familiar. Did you ever stop and think it is you that doesn't get what is happening on the ice ? there has been "dramatic change" on the ice and this was why management brought GG in. They want this team to play a different style, we are seeing some good stuff but also fighting through the mistakes. This has to happen and you better have the stomach for it. You have no idea how the players are relating to GG and is staff, for all you know they may love where all this change will take them. If at first you don't try the only thing you can be guaranteed of is nothing will happen. Mistakes are going to happen, so long as they learn from them they will be in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Did you ever stop and think it is you that doesn't get what is happening on the ice ? there has been "dramatic change" on the ice and this was why management brought GG in. They want this team to play a different style, we are seeing some good stuff but also fighting through the mistakes. This has to happen and you better have the stomach for it. You have no idea how the players are relating to GG and is staff, for all you know they may love where all this change will take them. If at first you don't try the only thing you can be guaranteed of is nothing will happen. Mistakes are going to happen, so long as they learn from them they will be in good shape. I agree with this, just because this team has lost some games doesnt mean there has been no change in this team, I dont think that even makes sense. I wouldnt be suprised if this team had a really bad year this year, and failed to make the playoffs, does that mean GG should be fired? not at all. This team is trending up, the team is improving as a whole and I for one im excited. If this team fails this year but we continue to see them improving, the future looks bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Lots of talk on here about style, teaching, and change. Not a lot of talk about winning hockey games. Don't worry, this is one of those rare threads where, by the time it's all said and done, we'll all be on the same page. You'll all have your breaking point. It's admirable that you want to give him more time before piling on, and that's one of the great things about Flames fans. But I've been to this particular rodeo more than once and I've seen enough for there to be only one Probable outcome. Tick tock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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