Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[rickross]

Bennett is a great example of acquiring young elite talent by drafting high. His impact wasn't immediate but he's been consistently one of our best players since December by far..still 19! Janko finally looks like he's rounding into form, Anderson and Mangiapane we know are having strong seasons. If we end up drafting high again atleast that prospect (other than Matthews of course! ) won't have as glaring a spotlight like Janko and Sven had

[The_People1]

Hunter Smith..I'm hoping he can adjust well to the pros, if he can find his game he'd add a much needed dynamic. I agree, think once Treliving took the helm he put more focus on balancing size, skill and speed. All of our young D are mobile , puck movers with offensive abilities.

 

I think the appeal of drafting the next Milan Lucic or Chris Simon is always going to be there regardless of team and GM.  Anytime you feel an enforcer in Juniors has any offensive abilities, then take a chance on him.  Imagine a Brandon Bollig who can score 25-goals a year. That's gold.

 

We're hoping Ferland can be this homerun pick but I dunno.  He's at worse a 3rd liner but he shows offensive skills that have not yet translated into points.  I don't think Ferland is on the curve to become a top 6.

 

In terms of Hunter Smith, his skating is actually decent for a big guy and that's what has me believing he has a chance to make the NHL.  There's just not enough NHL-level skills after that.

[MAC331]

I think the appeal of drafting the next Milan Lucic or Chris Simon is always going to be there regardless of team and GM.  Anytime you feel an enforcer in Juniors has any offensive abilities, then take a chance on him.  Imagine a Brandon Bollig who can score 25-goals a year. That's gold.

 

We're hoping Ferland can be this homerun pick but I dunno.  He's at worse a 3rd liner but he shows offensive skills that have not yet translated into points.  I don't think Ferland is on the curve to become a top 6.

 

In terms of Hunter Smith, his skating is actually decent for a big guy and that's what has me believing he has a chance to make the NHL.  There's just not enough NHL-level skills after that.

I would love to see Hunter Smith get an opportunity at 3rd line RW next season. I know he is young but this kid is a winner and works hard. I think he would bring an attitude we lack right now.

[JTech780]

I would love to see Hunter Smith get an opportunity at 3rd line RW next season. I know he is young but this kid is a winner and works hard. I think he would bring an attitude we lack right now.

I would like to see him improve his offense at the AHL level before he moves on to the NHL. So far he has 4 points in 33 games.

[cross16]

I would love to see Hunter Smith get an opportunity at 3rd line RW next season. I know he is young but this kid is a winner and works hard. I think he would bring an attitude we lack right now.

 

It would take a pretty unprecedent summer for Smith to factor into the NHL next season. He's not scoring at the AHL level and from what i've read the reviews are mixed on how well he has played. AHL rookies so i'm not concerned but thinking he can made the jump to the NHL would take a very, very , very rare growth trajectory. He's at least 2 years away IMO. 

[MAC331]

It would take a pretty unprecedent summer for Smith to factor into the NHL next season. He's not scoring at the AHL level and from what i've read the reviews are mixed on how well he has played. AHL rookies so i'm not concerned but thinking he can made the jump to the NHL would take a very, very , very rare growth trajectory. He's at least 2 years away IMO. 

I wouldn't disagree with this, he is young and could likely put the AHL time to good use. I do think he will be a force when ready.

[conundrumed]

I think the appeal of drafting the next Milan Lucic or Chris Simon is always going to be there regardless of team and GM.  Anytime you feel an enforcer in Juniors has any offensive abilities, then take a chance on him.  Imagine a Brandon Bollig who can score 25-goals a year. That's gold.

 

We're hoping Ferland can be this homerun pick but I dunno.  He's at worse a 3rd liner but he shows offensive skills that have not yet translated into points.  I don't think Ferland is on the curve to become a top 6.

 

In terms of Hunter Smith, his skating is actually decent for a big guy and that's what has me believing he has a chance to make the NHL.  There's just not enough NHL-level skills after that.

If we could pull down 2 picks in the top 25, I'd be all about skilled wingers with size, don't care what hand.

Hope they're only max 2 yrs out.

Goaltending will follow suit, I'm not worried about that as much as too little offensive talent in the roster in general, let alone size.

[conundrumed]

I think the appeal of drafting the next Milan Lucic or Chris Simon is always going to be there regardless of team and GM.  Anytime you feel an enforcer in Juniors has any offensive abilities, then take a chance on him.  Imagine a Brandon Bollig who can score 25-goals a year. That's gold.

 

We're hoping Ferland can be this homerun pick but I dunno.  He's at worse a 3rd liner but he shows offensive skills that have not yet translated into points.  I don't think Ferland is on the curve to become a top 6.

 

In terms of Hunter Smith, his skating is actually decent for a big guy and that's what has me believing he has a chance to make the NHL.  There's just not enough NHL-level skills after that.

I really hope we climb another pick in the first rd for Jones. Great shot, great skating for a big kid, takes too many undisciplined penalties, perfect.

Wingers with attitude.

We need some terror on our wings.

[rickross]

If we could somehow land another 1st rounder this year that would be huge. I wonder if Flames would draft BPA or would they focus moreso on offensively skilled forwards as u suggest. I think it was abundantly clear we lack depth in skilled, offensive minded forwards. We rely quite a bit on our D to score so drafting scoring forwards is never a bad option.

[rickross]

I'm with you guys regarding Hunter Smith, if he can develop his game alongside other big wingers in our pool such as Austin Carroll..the Flames future core would have a great balance of size, skill, speed and grit.

[MAC331]

If we could somehow land another 1st rounder this year that would be huge. I wonder if Flames would draft BPA or would they focus moreso on offensively skilled forwards as u suggest. I think it was abundantly clear we lack depth in skilled, offensive minded forwards. We rely quite a bit on our D to score so drafting scoring forwards is never a bad option.

I'm not so sure we lack the scoring talent within our forward group or we simply have the mix wrong with players out of position or not with the right line mates. BT will have some work to do on RW with Hudler and Jones leaving however this could be an opportunity to improve.

[rickross]

I'm not so sure we lack the scoring talent within our forward group or we simply have the mix wrong with players out of position or not with the right line mates. BT will have some work to do on RW with Hudler and Jones leaving however this could be an opportunity to improve.

Yeah RW is a gaping hole on this team, Flames have shown they can put up numbers..that 1st line put up 9pts against the Ducks yesterday. The concern is if a player like JH got injured this team would play and look quite different. JH helps us with our zone entries, elite passing and creating time and space. There's really no one else other than Bennett that possesses those types of high end abilities on this team.

[conundrumed]

Yeah RW is a gaping hole on this team, Flames have shown they can put up numbers..that 1st line put up 9pts against the Ducks yesterday. The concern is if a player like JH got injured this team would play and look quite different. JH helps us with our zone entries, elite passing and creating time and space. There's really no one else other than Bennett that possesses those types of high end abilities on this team.

I'm more of the mind that wing is a gaping hole, left or right. Everything after Johnny is weak. Maybe not Hudler as a 2nd line, but if he's gone, we really don't have 3 out of 4 wingers required for the top 2 lines imho.

[MAC331]

I'm more of the mind that wing is a gaping hole, left or right. Everything after Johnny is weak. Maybe not Hudler as a 2nd line, but if he's gone, we really don't have 3 out of 4 wingers required for the top 2 lines imho.

Depends on who remains and where BH chooses to play them, we have had the wrong mix and players playing out of their normal positions all season. I see our LW side like this and the RW as the need area.

Gaudreau, Monahan,  ?

Ferland, Bennett, Frolik

Bouma, Backlund, ?

Granlund, Stajan, Jooris

 

This is how I see it should all these players remain. If Poirier isn't ready to make the jump then we need a couple of better RW considerations brought in.

[rickross]

Depends on who remains and where BH chooses to play them, we have had the wrong mix and players playing out of their normal positions all season. I see our LW side like this and the RW as the need area.

Gaudreau, Monahan, ?

Ferland, Bennett, Frolik

Bouma, Backlund, ?

Granlund, Stajan, Jooris

This is how I see it should all these players remain. If Poirier isn't ready to make the jump then we need a couple of better RW considerations brought in.

I think we maybe all anticipated another Jooris situation where one of our prospects graduates and finds success this year. Kulak was close but no such fairy tales happened this year. I'd give Poirier another 1-2 years before considering him ready to crack the team. It's been awhile since Agostino was called up, he's been pretty consistent in the AHL the last 2 years.

[MAC331]

I think we maybe all anticipated another Jooris situation where one of our prospects graduates and finds success this year. Kulak was close but no such fairy tales happened this year. I'd give Poirier another 1-2 years before considering him ready to crack the team. It's been awhile since Agostino was called up, he's been pretty consistent in the AHL the last 2 years.

Unfortunately for Kulak there was Smid still around or he may have stayed up all year. Should they trade Hudler I would like to see Poirier come up and see what we have in him. Agostino perhaps the same situation but where do you play him ? I guess Granlund could go down and Agostino up.

I would think after the TDL we will start to see some of these players.

[DirtyDeeds]

Unfortunately for Kulak there was Smid still around or he may have stayed up all year. ............

Fortunately for Kulak Smid was injured early on so he managed to get in some NHL experience.

........Should they trade Hudler I would like to see Poirier come up and see what we have in him. Agostino perhaps the same situation but where do you play him ? I guess Granlund could go down and Agostino up.

I would think after the TDL we will start to see some of these players.

Fixed that for you.

 

Flames have shown many times last year and this year callups for injuries are just that.. nothing more.

[rickross]

One guy who I think if he can recover fully and continue his development is Culkin. We keep having to skip over him because the kid is always freakishly injured. He at one point was slightly ahead of Kulak. For now it appears the Flames have a wealth of young defensive prospects.

[jjgallow]

 

So I think they are on the right track but do need to see better results. 

 

Here's my only issue...your points are well taken, but at the end of the day, you're kind of saying...

 

It's good enough, and it was always good enough, even though the results have never been good enough.

 

Personally, I feel that if the results aren't good enough, and never have been, then maybe, we need improvements.

 

 

Little known fact I won't say often:  I don't believe in rebuilds.  I really don't.   Rebuilds are a counter-reaction to a complete lack of responsible drafting and development over a 5-10 year span.   The fact that we even had a rebuild...let alone that it is turning out to be a long-ish one, speaks for itself.

[MAC331]

I think the appeal of drafting the next Milan Lucic or Chris Simon is always going to be there regardless of team and GM.  Anytime you feel an enforcer in Juniors has any offensive abilities, then take a chance on him.  Imagine a Brandon Bollig who can score 25-goals a year. That's gold.

 

We're hoping Ferland can be this homerun pick but I dunno.  He's at worse a 3rd liner but he shows offensive skills that have not yet translated into points.  I don't think Ferland is on the curve to become a top 6.

 

In terms of Hunter Smith, his skating is actually decent for a big guy and that's what has me believing he has a chance to make the NHL.  There's just not enough NHL-level skills after that.

If Ferland became what I like to call a flex LW that can be an exceptional 3rd liner that can give you productive time on the 2nd line in times of need then great. I would love to see a RW just like him on the 3rd line with Backlund.

[rickross]

Here's my only issue...your points are well taken, but at the end of the day, you're kind of saying...

It's good enough, and it was always good enough, even though the results have never been good enough.

Personally, I feel that if the results aren't good enough, and never have been, then maybe, we need improvements.

Little known fact I won't say often: I don't believe in rebuilds. I really don't. Rebuilds are a counter-reaction to a complete lack of responsible drafting and development over a 5-10 year span. The fact that we even had a rebuild...let alone that it is turning out to be a long-ish one, speaks for itself.

There's some truth in that. Teams like Detroit for example have always been sound in drafting and player development and seem to avoid the painful rebuild process. I think the Flames got a huge wake up call and are now setting measures in place to ensure continuity within the franchise.

I can't say I don't believe in rebuilds because they're necessary in some cases although avoidable. In the Flames case before this rebuild there was not much focus on the future at all, albeit the NHL has just started transitioning to younger, faster and skilled players.

[cross16]

There's some truth in that. Teams like Detroit for example have always been sound in drafting and player development and seem to avoid the painful rebuild process. I think the Flames got a huge wake up call and are now setting measures in place to ensure continuity within the franchise.

I can't say I don't believe in rebuilds because they're necessary in some cases although avoidable. In the Flames case before this rebuild there was not much focus on the future at all, albeit the NHL has just started transitioning to younger, faster and skilled players.

 

While there is some yes, name me another team other than Detroit than in the last 10 -15 years has been a consistanty playoff team and didn't need to "rebuild" in some sort of fashion?

 

I'd love for the Flames to be a Detroit but the truth is its extremely difficult to do so. Even across all pro sports the amount of teams that don't have to go through some sort of rebulid ever 5-10 years is very small. 

[rickross]

While there is some yes, name me another team other than Detroit than in the last 10 -15 years has been a consistanty playoff team and didn't need to "rebuild" in some sort of fashion?

I'd love for the Flames to be a Detroit but the truth is its extremely difficult to do so. Even across all pro sports the amount of teams that don't have to go through some sort of rebulid ever 5-10 years is very small.

That's the problem , very few teams have been able to avoid rebuilds. Detroit is probably the one exception in the NHL. It is ridiculously difficult to stay as competitive and relevant as the Red Wings have all. I think the realization of the cap and aging players has forced more teams to build from within.

[JTech780]

One thing I have been thinking about a lot in regards to evaluating prospects, is that hockey at the NHL level is so different from hockey at the junior, college or AHL level.  For the most part what we get to see is the stat line, and that is what we judge a players ability on. We see a player put up a point per game or better in junior and think that that player has talent and has a chance to play at the NHL level. I am starting to see that how a player scores is as important or more important than how many times they score. 

 

In junior and college there is such a big gap between the high end players and the low end players, and the high end teams to the low end teams. So as a scout I would be interested to see how a player preformed versus top ranked teams. Does a certain player only score versus the low end teams and only when he is playing against lower end talent? How does he score? Does he score by going hard to the net? Or does he stick to the perimeter and score? Does he score because he is bigger than his opponents? or Does he use hockey sense to be in the right position? These questions are much more important than can he score.

 

They way a player puts up points at lower levels doesn't always transfer to being able to score at the NHL level. We see a guy who can put up points and score goals in junior, but he was doing it as perimeter player, or was bigger, stronger, older than the opposition, or he feasted on low ranked teams. Once that player goes pro and the goals and points start to dry up we wonder where we went wrong in developing the player. It is very hard to produce if you just stick to the perimeter, or if the opposition is bigger, stronger and faster than you are.

 

The players that are willing to pay the price and go to the net and have the hockey sense to arrive at areas just as the puck gets there, those are the guys that will continue to have success as they progress through the levels.

 

To make a long story short, putting up points is great, but how and when are you putting up those points what I want to know.

[CheersMan]

That's the problem , very few teams have been able to avoid rebuilds. Detroit is probably the one exception in the NHL. It is ridiculously difficult to stay as competitive and relevant as the Red Wings have all. I think the realization of the cap and aging players has forced more teams to build from within.

 

1989, CGY picks Manderville #24, DET picks Lidstrom at #53.

1994, CGY picks Dingman #19, DET picks Holmstrom at #257.

1998, CGY picks Fata #6, DET picks Datsyuk at #171.

1999, CGY picks Saprykin #11, DET picks Zetterberg at #210.

 

I stopped looking after this.