Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

This is only true if PHI made him an offer and he declined it.  It's believed PHI was his first choice so that defeats the whole "don't want the spotlight" argument.  He was absolutely ready for the spotlight.

 

In regards to NJ and NYI, it's more likely he grew up hating those teams and just couldn't muster putting on their jerseys.  CBJ is a neutral team with little history so, it was easier to play for them.

 

Which comes back to the Flames.  If it wasn't the spotlight, then it's likely he left to be closer to home as long as it wasn't a cross town rival of PHI.

 

He basically knew at the time of rejecting us that Philly wasn't going to be able to sign him.  And he also knew that Torts was a hard taskmaster.  Would make the grunts of Sutter look like a kitten meow.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Not having a reliable source to prove this is making it up.  Its a lot of speculation that I don't think has ever been proven by anyone credible, its just a case of a guy who always looks disinterested in media conversations that the narrative became 1) Doesn't want to be here 2) Unhappy with contract.  Sometimes I read stuff online and it really makes sense why these guys are leaving.

 

At the time, it was rumoured he was unhappy with "Giordano's cap" being used against him.  Not sure what kind of reliable source you need.

[zima]

So at this point in time it really doesn't matter he is gone and would take any offer to get out of here. Now that he is gone where do we go from here what candidate from the farm do you feel has the best  chance to jump to the NHL?

[cross16]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

How so making stuff up?

 

Facts:

1. Johnny was confirmed mad after the last negotiations.

2. Johnny never responded to the Flames initial offer believed to be $9.5-mil x 8.

3. Johnny did not accept the Flames final offer rumoured to be $10.5-mil x 8.

 

"Insulted" is subjective.  So make what you want of it.  How would you describe what ultimately went down?

 

How is this fact? I've seen nothing to support this and even if there was a rumor out there, how is this fact? come to think of it how are 1 and 2 facts? how do you not respond to an offer and then negotiate? This is what i'm saying we are either making stuff up or we are stretching rumors to fit narratives. 

 

I don't think the offers were bad I think Gaudreau was truly torn on what he wanted to do. He left the negotiating up to his agent and Gross (as is typical of him) tried to wait the Flames out and extract the best offer he could. When he did that and got a number they were both comfortable with he went to Gaudreau who then made the final decision that he wanted to leave.

 

I really do believe this was a simple as he was just really torn, probably not a decision he wanted to make but ultimately had to once the deadline hit. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 What I'm not understanding is the rush to make up these narratives. The Flames low balled him, he was upset, wanted to stick it to them etc etc. If there is actual proof of these things then let's discuss them, but I've seen nothing and heard nothing that suggests any of this is true and it feels like people are twisting truths to fit certain narratives. 

 

At the end of the day "he stuck it to us".  He pulled what many are calling a "dick move" by not telling us by the draft that he's going to test UFA.  The question is why?

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

At the time, it was rumoured he was unhappy with "Giordano's cap" being used against him.  Not sure what kind of reliable source you need.

 

But that's the thing it's "rumors" not facts. 

 

It was also rumored that the Flames wanted longer but Gaudreau and Gross pushed for shorter. 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

How is this fact? I've seen nothing to support this and even if there was a rumor out there, how is this fact? come to think of it how are 1 and 2 facts? how do you not respond to an offer and then negotiate? This is what i'm saying we are either making stuff up or we are stretching rumors to fit narratives. 

 

I don't think the offers were bad I think Gaudreau was truly torn on what he wanted to do. He left the negotiating up to his agent and Gross (as is typical of him) tried to wait the Flames out and extract the best offer he could. When he did that and got a number they were both comfortable with he went to Gaudreau who then made the final decision that he wanted to leave.

 

I really do believe this was a simple as he was just really torn, probably not a decision he wanted to make but ultimately had to once the deadline hit. 

 

So I mean, he led BT and Gross to believe it's about the numbers.  So those two hammered it out only for it to not be about the numbers.

[sak22]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

At the time, it was rumoured he was unhappy with "Giordano's cap" being used against him.  Not sure what kind of reliable source you need.

Well its the equivalent of school girl gossip, I've known people who've worked on the team and thats something that has never come up.  I've heard plenty of dirt on players, although my source left CSEC they worked there at the time and never gave any indications that he was any different.

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

But that's the thing it's "rumors" not facts. 

 

It was also rumored that the Flames wanted longer but Gaudreau and Gross pushed for shorter. 

 

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Well its the equivalent of school girl gossip, I've known people who've worked on the team and thats something that has never come up.  I've heard plenty of dirt on players, although my source left CSEC they worked there at the time and never gave any indications that he was any different.

 

It was never reported that he was happy either.

[cross16]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

So I mean, he led BT and Gross to believe it's about the numbers.  So those two hammered it out only for it to not be about the numbers.

 

 

Why does this feel strange to you? If the player says playing there may be an option it's the agents job to explore getting his client the best deal. 

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

It was never reported that he was happy either.

True, but holding out or requesting a trade are options instead of going with instead of being pissed for 6 years.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

It was never reported that he was happy either.

 

I would not dispute the fact that his first contract negotiation wasn't great and i'm not sure either side walked away that happy, that's been long rumored and i've seen various stories that blame mostly the agent but I do think the Flames drove a hard bargain. Should also be noted that is VERY typical of RFA negotiations. I've never heard anything that the Flames did that was outside the norm. 

 

What I just think is crap is the idea that a negotiation 6 years impacted this last one. There is nothing i've read or heard that would suggest that. This idea that he waited 6 years to stick it to the Flames just comes across as extremely silly to me. 

[The_People1]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Why does this feel strange to you? If the player says playing there may be an option it's the agents job to explore getting his client the best deal. 

 

Because in the end, playing in Calgary was actually not an option for him and it was not about the money.  He wasted everyone's time... Especially the time that he was radio silent.

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, sak22 said:

True, but holding out or requesting a trade are options instead of going with instead of being pissed for 6 years.

 

There's different levels of mad though.  You can be mad but not mad enough to request a trade.

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I would not dispute the fact that his first contract negotiation wasn't great and i'm not sure either side walked away that happy, that's been long rumored and i've seen various stories that blame mostly the agent but I do think the Flames drove a hard bargain. Should also be noted that is VERY typical of RFA negotiations. I've never heard anything that the Flames did that was outside the norm. 

 

What I just think is crap is the idea that a negotiation 6 years impacted this last one. There is nothing i've read or heard that would suggest that. This idea that he waited 6 years to stick it to the Flames just comes across as extremely silly to me. 

Jarome Iginla held out for his 2nd deal, didn't sign until camp started the 3rd but had no issues the next 2 negotiations.  Kiprusoff went to arbitration his first contract here, but wasn't too difficult after.  The NFL the franchise tag is a major piss off to the players, yet many play a year under it still resign long term after.  People are grasping for a reason why he left, there could be 10 reasons or there could be one, his decision he doesn't need to justify it.  Lets move on.

[cross16]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Because in the end, playing in Calgary was actually not an option for him and it was not about the money.  He wasted everyone's time... Especially the time that he was radio silent.

 

That is an assumption that we don't know to be true though and it sure doesn't sound like this is the case. I have a hard time believing he led people on as it doesn't make sense to do that. 

 

But it's done and I think we should just move on. Nothing to be gained by trying to forensically dissect his every word or rumor. 

[rickross]

46 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That is an assumption that we don't know to be true though and it sure doesn't sound like this is the case. I have a hard time believing he led people on as it doesn't make sense to do that. 

 

But it's done and I think we should just move on. Nothing to be gained by trying to forensically dissect his every word or rumor. 

Sadly it’s sounding like that’s exactly what Johnny did. He said he’d had CLB “circled for awhile”. This wasn’t new, this was very much pre meditated. He knew he was NEVER going to resign. Was never an option and yet he played along and pretty much threw up the middle finger the fans base and the organization. All of this could have been avoided. 

[zima]

I'll ask this again he's gone ancient history sorry to see him go obviously he wasn't happy here either he didn't like playing with someone or he just wasn't happy with the Franchise. Now I will also ask this again of the Prospects who do you think will have the best chance of coming up or the most qualified with what we have seen from there progress last yr besides Wolf who should be a slam dunk if there is room for him?

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, rickross said:

Sadly it’s sounding like that’s exactly what Johnny did. He said he’d had CLB “circled for awhile”. This wasn’t new, this was very much pre meditated. He knew he was NEVER going to resign. Was never an option and yet he played along and pretty much threw up the middle finger the fans base and the organization. All of this could have been avoided. 

 

At this point fact and fiction is hard to pour through.  He said a bunch of things.  How many are really true.  You don't want your new fans to think you were Plan E.  He went for reasons we will not hear until he retires or even ever.

[tmac70]

17 minutes ago, rickross said:

Sadly it’s sounding like that’s exactly what Johnny did. He said he’d had CLB “circled for awhile”. This wasn’t new, this was very much pre meditated. He knew he was NEVER going to resign. Was never an option and yet he played along and pretty much threw up the middle finger the fans base and the organization. All of this could have been avoided. 

This has been my point from the start. JG was provided a deadline to answer and he took every ounce of time to do so.  Unless its written the CBA that the organization can not request an answer before this time line, this falls on the GM. There is no way in gods green earth that this decision could not have been made 7 weeks ago.  Its over and done with now, and its not sour grapes.....He choose to move on great all the best to him and his family, but in the end Trevling got played, it was avoidable. I don't hold JG responsible for any the time line, but what he did was and still remains a dick move to the organization and his team mates. Your correct this could or should have been avoided

[sak22]

10 minutes ago, zima said:

I'll ask this again he's gone ancient history sorry to see him go obviously he wasn't happy here either he didn't like playing with someone or he just wasn't happy with the Franchise. Now I will also ask this again of the Prospects who do you think will have the best chance of coming up or the most qualified with what we have seen from there progress last yr besides Wolf who should be a slam dunk if there is room for him?

I don't see Wolf making the jump.  For D there is Mackey and Valimaki, up front I'd say Ruzicka is the best bet based on his experience from last year, Pelletier is a possibility, Phillips maybe, my darkhorse would be Zary if he has a good offseason and stays healthy in camp.

[jjgallow]

 

I do think though, going back to the GM, it's not his responsibility to make JG's decisions for him.  So whether JG did or didn't plan on signing, imho is only a small factor.

 

What's the GM's responsibility is the risk management.   We've all known this was at least possible, many of us...expected it.   We can debate how surprising it was or wasn't, but I think it's fair to say that BT took on an unacceptable level of risk to meet short term needs and appease pressures he most admittedly faced.  And I don't mean, just this year (he's traded enough picks away this year too).  I mean, for several years.

 

For the risk management, imho, I see this is fireable, and I think the finger pointing starts with him.   If it goes anywhere other than him, imho it goes higher (owners).  There's really not much point to blaming JG, rightly or wrongly.

[zima]

I'm hoping Pell and Phillips up front I think Wolf will be a star for us any way he has proved to be the best goalie we have had ever in the AHL system

 

[phoenix66]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

At this point fact and fiction is hard to pour through.  He said a bunch of things.  How many are really true.  You don't want your new fans to think you were Plan E.  He went for reasons we will not hear until he retires or even ever.

True .. but doesn't sound like someone who wrestled ..

My theory is this.. he knew he planned to leave , unless he got a super ridiculous offer to change his mind .. likely in Connor territory 

There's blame to go around 

 

I think bt should have been more pushing for at least a progress update .. but at the end of the day , treating his players as humans has been more beneficial than detrimental

 

I think Johnny shouid have just made it clear.."unless I get this I'm leaving " 

 

If you " love and respect the organization, the city and the fans" you act a little classier and at least give them an option to get something back ..or look at plan B sooner 

 

 

 

[phoenix66]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I do think though, going back to the GM, it's not his responsibility to make JG's decisions for him.  So whether JG did or didn't plan on signing, imho is only a small factor.

 

What's the GM's responsibility is the risk management.   We've all known this was at least possible, many of us...expected it.   We can debate how surprising it was or wasn't, but I think it's fair to say that BT took on an unacceptable level of risk to meet short term needs and appease pressures he most admittedly faced.

 

For the risk management, imho, I see this is fireable, and I think the finger pointing starts with him.   If it goes anywhere other than him, imho it goes higher (owners).  There's really not much point to blaming JG, rightly or wrongly.

I disagree..  his words , his statements ..which I have to assume were the same privately as publicly.. changed even the most die hard believers that he was gone into converts ..(eg Eric Francis..) 

He dangled hope when there was none .. I don't believe for one second bt wasnt asking all the way past the point of no return whether Johnny had interest on resigning and got positive answers 

Sorry...we got played