Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[DirtyDeeds]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Such a cop out.

 

St. Louis dealt away a top 6 center, pissed off their players and they still didn't fold like the flames did. What moves did Anaheim make? What move was he suppose to make that would have got the flames into the playoffs. 

 

Flames had more then enough to get into the playoffs but their group, players and coaches, didn't get it done. 

Hogwash

 

BT could have tried to help instead he did practically nothing.

 

Other teams were able to find help for their playoff runs.

 

Paul Stastny - Jets

While the Jets pretty much had a playoff spot tied up, Laine was injured. Fit was good.

 

 

Evander Kane - Sharks

We had the opportunity for him and it ended up, he did not cost the Sharks much. In the close race in this division He was a really nice pickup, even if he turns out to be a short term pickup.

 

JT Miller - Lightning

12 point in his first 11 games when traded.. Those pickups never work at trade deadline right???

 

BT could have done more.. waiver claim and 4th line center they only played the last what..9 games when it was pretty much a sinking ship?

 

[cross16]

21 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Hogwash

 

BT could have tried to help instead he did practically nothing.

 

Other teams were able to find help for their playoff runs.

 

Paul Stastny - Jets

While the Jets pretty much had a playoff spot tied up, Laine was injured. Fit was good.

 

 

Evander Kane - Sharks

We had the opportunity for him and it ended up, he did not cost the Sharks much. In the close race in this division He was a really nice pickup, even if he turns out to be a short term pickup.

 

JT Miller - Lightning

12 point in his first 11 games when traded.. Those pickups never work at trade deadline right???

 

BT could have done more.. waiver claim and 4th line center they only played the last what..9 games when it was pretty much a sinking ship?

 

 

Did you check what it cost to get those players? Flames didn't have the assets to do any of those deals. 

 

so now Treliving is getting roasted for giving up too much to improve the team and not giving up enough at the same time. 

 

Had he made a deal and still missed the playoffs, which I would suggest is very likely, would you say he did the right thing?

[redfire11]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Did you check what it cost to get those players? Flames didn't have the assets to do any of those deals. 

 

so now Treliving is getting roasted for giving up too much to improve the team and not giving up enough at the same time. 

 

Had he made a deal and still missed the playoffs, which I would suggest is very likely, would you say he did the right thing?

With GG as coach I am not sure if any of the players that were traded at the TDL would have put us in the playoffs. I also feel BT has taken the first step to making us a playoff bound team.

[rocketdoctor]

Sorry DD

 

But I diasgree completely with you on this one.

 

We were not looking like any sort of contender for Lord Stanley this year.   Yes we should have made the playoffs with the group but for whatever reason this team was not playing consistently enough to have gone past the first round.  Pick ups and the deadline would have hurt us a lot going forward.  No point in making a big splash if there are not the right players available.  Besides which he had limitied option due to previous trades.

 

I praise him for holding off.  Think it was the right thing to do.

 

I am also hopeful he will hold onto Bennett.   A new coach can do wonders for players and I think we have yet to seen the best out of Benny.   I do no wnat to see large changes in the off season.   This group has the potential to do all but DO they want it bad enough??    For all the carping on about GG/Browuer last year (and my patience was getting thin at the end)  the players in this squad need to take a long hard good look at themselves.  

 

[MAC331]

5 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Sorry DD

 

But I diasgree completely with you on this one.

 

We were not looking like any sort of contender for Lord Stanley this year.   Yes we should have made the playoffs with the group but for whatever reason this team was not playing consistently enough to have gone past the first round.  Pick ups and the deadline would have hurt us a lot going forward.  No point in making a big splash if there are not the right players available.  Besides which he had limitied option due to previous trades.

 

I praise him for holding off.  Think it was the right thing to do.

 

I am also hopeful he will hold onto Bennett.   A new coach can do wonders for players and I think we have yet to seen the best out of Benny.   I do no wnat to see large changes in the off season.   This group has the potential to do all but DO they want it bad enough??    For all the carping on about GG/Browuer last year (and my patience was getting thin at the end)  the players in this squad need to take a long hard good look at themselves.  

 

I think we have just about heard everything about this team and these players, all assumptions without knowing the real situation. Most all these players come from winning backgrounds either with teams or doing well personally their entire lives. Any team has to grow and come together in order to win and there will be many circumstances of why they do and don't. We have a number of good pieces on this team all at various stages of experience within the NHL. I believe this past season had to many of the wrong situations and bad decisions surrounding where and how players needed to be utilized. I think GG got lost in trying to instill the discipline required to play the systems they wanted incorporated. I still think the players that will remain will have learned under GG and with a few addition and subtractions Peters will be able to bring a sense of proper order for us.

[rickross]

Overall BT has done a good job managing this team. Aside from giving away some high draft picks and a couple of bad signings (Brouwer, Bouma for ex.) he's managed the pipeline of prospects and cap space quite well. He deserves more credit for resigning some key players at good values, it's pretty impressive no one earns more than $7M on this roster in this day and age. 

 

Its too early to sing positive or negative praise on the Bill Peters signings however I do wish he'd taken more time to explore all coaching options. Personally I feel we were no more than pretenders under GG. This team could have made the playoffs this year but their not built to win the SC yet. Still need more depth and grit on this team, hopefull BT can address that this off season. 

 

For now, I'd still peg BT as one of the better GMs around however his credibility now hangs with Bill Peters. With Burke gone it'll be the 1st time BT has full reigns on this operation, so far he's done more good than bad for this team but he is now officially on the clock. 

[conundrumed]

I can't help but think Peters was BT's first choice off the hop. He became available, BT acted quickly.

Peters has quite the task now in visiting the roster and what he needs to help him coach. He could even change the dynamics, it's hard to say.

But I'm guessing that he's going to have a lot of say in what he'd like to see.

Honestly can't hurt to put a fresh set of eyes on our roster and where we need to go.

If Peters can bring a lot of backbone to make tough decisions, it'll be a win.

[conundrumed]

Just to add. The last thing I want is a coach telling me "we did a lot of good things" in a loss.

Just the way I view it (I played net), that would be the ultimate insult.

"We lost, don't tell me we played well".

Any goalie or guy with a letter should be able to tell you that.

When it starts at the coach, it becomes difficult to be honest.

So you get everyone parroting, "well we did a lot of good things".

I think we need a coupla Russians, because they accidentally tell the truth.

Imagine Smith, "well I faced 48 shots and we lost 2-1" being honest about that?

"well my coach just said we played a good game overall, so I guess I'll be needing 40-odd shutouts this year".

 

That would be my parting shot to GG, "stop being everyone's buddy, a loss is a loss."

If you're going to pull the positives from a loss, use your inside voice, pack it away until tomorrow.

Don't spill your guts, for godsakes.

Everyone isn't your buddy, put your thick skin on and get pissed.

I think GG will be fine, he'll learn, unfortunately, he has to spare his players no quarter.

At this level, there isn't a single player that hasn't been ripped on hard along the way.

Kinda the way it works.

Your feeling has been hurt long before this, lol.

Demand more.

GG needs to find his aggression gene, he's going to need it.

[rickross]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I can't help but think Peters was BT's first choice off the hop. He became available, BT acted quickly.

Peters has quite the task now in visiting the roster and what he needs to help him coach. He could even change the dynamics, it's hard to say.

But I'm guessing that he's going to have a lot of say in what he'd like to see.

Honestly can't hurt to put a fresh set of eyes on our roster and where we need to go.

If Peters can bring a lot of backbone to make tough decisions, it'll be a win.

It's pretty clear Peters was BT's only choice, it's also why BT may live or die off this signing. Completely ignoring names like Tippett, Sutter and Vignault etc...gives BT little to no room for failure. In reality, Peters doesn't have to do that much, he's inheriting a young team only 1 year removed from the playoffs so it's more of a tweaking then a full reset IMO. I think with Burke gone it should give more breathing room for BT and his coaching staff. 

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, rickross said:

gives BT little to no room for failure. 

 

I don't understand this response. If Treliving hired AV and it didn't work out would you let him hire another coach? Would the owners?

 

I don't agree with or follow the logic of people who think Treliving should have gone the "safer" option. First of all I don't think a safer option exist when it comes to hiring a coach and second why would you want him to do that? For me and with my favorite team I want the people in charge to hire the people they think are the best for the job and do it with conviction. I think it's clear that's exactly what Treliving did. 

[rickross]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't understand this response. If Treliving hired AV and it didn't work out would you let him hire another coach? Would the owners?

 

I don't agree with or follow the logic of people who think Treliving should have gone the "safer" option. First of all I don't think a safer option exist when it comes to hiring a coach and second why would you want him to do that? For me and with my favorite team I want the people in charge to hire the people they think are the best for the job and do it with conviction. I think it's clear that's exactly what Treliving did. 

It's not just about who he hired but how. By BT's own admission he never considered anyone else, if Peters falters it's on BT. The last inexperienced NHL coach experiment didn't work out with GG...there's less patience this time around and another failure will be a knock on BT's track record. I'm all for picking the best people but can you say you've hired the best person for the job when you didn't interview every candidate? I'm not saying going with your gut is wrong but in this case it if it backfires it automatically puts BT on the hot seat. 

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, rickross said:

It's not just about who he hired but how. By BT's own admission he never considered anyone else, if Peters falters it's on BT. The last inexperienced NHL coach experiment didn't work out with GG...there's less patience this time around and another failure will be a knock on BT's track record. I'm all for picking the best people but can you say you've hired the best person for the job when you didn't interview every candidate? I'm not saying going with your gut is wrong but in this case it if it backfires it automatically puts BT on the hot seat. 

 

Yes but that's true of any candidate that's the point. Irregardless of who he hires BT will be let get if this coaching hire doesn't work out so why does it matter if he spoke with 1 or 50 candidates? 

 

In a world as small as the NHL I absolutely think you can hire the best candidate without doing a bunch of interviews. Big, long, thorough searches can yield the same results as hiring someone you already know. Flames didn't need a big search to hire Hartley yet a long search yielded Gulutzan. A search by the Pens yielded Mike Johnston, then next to around they just promoted Mike Sullivan. Small community, not difficult to know the candidates. 

[phoenix66]

37 minutes ago, rickross said:

It's not just about who he hired but how. By BT's own admission he never considered anyone else, if Peters falters it's on BT. The last inexperienced NHL coach experiment didn't work out with GG...there's less patience this time around and another failure will be a knock on BT's track record. I'm all for picking the best people but can you say you've hired the best person for the job when you didn't interview every candidate? I'm not saying going with your gut is wrong but in this case it if it backfires it automatically puts BT on the hot seat. 

I'll add to Cross's comment by saying the fact he did such a big search last time, he definitely had notes to go off from last time.

He said both times, he had a profile.. so the coach needs to check off as many boxes as possible of that profile. I firmly believe Peters was his guy last time but wasn't available , so he looked for the best fit of a coach similar to Peters as he could. Unfortunately GG didn't live up to what some of those criteria were.

This time, his guy was available .. simple as that .

[Cowtownguy]

53 minutes ago, rickross said:

It's not just about who he hired but how. By BT's own admission he never considered anyone else, if Peters falters it's on BT. The last inexperienced NHL coach experiment didn't work out with GG...there's less patience this time around and another failure will be a knock on BT's track record. I'm all for picking the best people but can you say you've hired the best person for the job when you didn't interview every candidate? I'm not saying going with your gut is wrong but in this case it if it backfires it automatically puts BT on the hot seat. 

BT has been all about slow, plodding, unemotional thought processes, and then he hires Peters right away. It comes across as irrational and possibly desperate. The last time I looked at a similar move by a Flames GM, we ended up with 5 Leafs.

[phoenix66]

15 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

BT has been all about slow, plodding, unemotional thought processes, and then he hires Peters right away. It comes across as irrational and possibly desperate. The last time I looked at a similar move by a Flames GM, we ended up with 5 Leafs.

see the notes above.. he had already done all his homework 2 years ago

I'd be willing to bet the farm had Peters not been available GG might have kept his job for a final year .

 

 

Right or wrong , Peters was his Profile coach all along 

 

[Cowtownguy]

27 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

see the notes above.. he had already done all his homework 2 years ago

I'd be willing to bet the farm had Peters not been available GG might have kept his job for a final year .

 

 

Right or wrong , Peters was his Profile coach all along 

 

I agree with you that he did his homework before he hired GG. But, he spoke about the process being so important that it came across as rushed when he hired Peters so quickly. As well, the coaching options this time are different than last time. I doubt that he interviewed AV or Sutter last time around. I did due diligence when I bought my last truck. When I buy the next one, I am not just going to go with a new version of this one. I will see what new options exist.

 

ETA: In two to three years, we might all be buying electric, autonomous vehicles.

[cccsberg]

On 2018-04-29 at 8:46 PM, DirtyDeeds said:

Hogwash

 

BT could have tried to help instead he did practically nothing.

 

Other teams were able to find help for their playoff runs.

 

Paul Stastny - Jets

While the Jets pretty much had a playoff spot tied up, Laine was injured. Fit was good.

 

 

Evander Kane - Sharks

We had the opportunity for him and it ended up, he did not cost the Sharks much. In the close race in this division He was a really nice pickup, even if he turns out to be a short term pickup.

 

JT Miller - Lightning

12 point in his first 11 games when traded.. Those pickups never work at trade deadline right???

 

BT could have done more.. waiver claim and 4th line center they only played the last what..9 games when it was pretty much a sinking ship?

 

Let's see, what do we the fans know now that only the team knew before?  Your 1C was hurt and playing through multiple injuries after getting shot up before every game.  Your 1G was seriously injured and instead of day-to-day that was put out for the media he'd be out for more than a month.   Your 2RW was also out injured, and your 1RW was playing through an injury as well.  Of course everyone knew their 3RW was injured from near the start of the season and had already (?) been shipped off to Europe, and their 3LW/RW/PP specialist was recovering from surgery and never would make it back before the end of the season.  What we did not know then was that our 2LW/PP demon and emotional spark plug would get injured and miss the last month of the season.  There was probably more.

 

In spite of all this, the team was sitting in a playoff position, even up to 2nd in the Division but the competition was fierce with multiple good teams going to miss out and it seemed like every single game was a must-win.  Now that I'm sitting here 20:20 hindsight I'm pretty sure it would have been apparent that our chances were pretty dismal and that throwing away more high picks for a top-end rental was foolhardy.  Hmmm, I guess even in retrospect BT did a pretty fine job at TDL.

[rickross]

BT reacted appropriately this TDL. I think he was feeling like many of us as he still didn't know who the Flames were at the time. No sense in panicking and overpaying, he let it play through and here we are today with a new coach. GG never established an identity to this team and Mike Smith masked a lot of the team's weaknesses...that makes it hard to properly assess exactly what you have in your team. I think BT did the right thing, he did pick up a guy like Shore that could prove useful for depth but he didn't force anything

[DirtyDeeds]

On 4/29/2018 at 9:07 PM, cross16 said:

 

Did you check what it cost to get those players? Flames didn't have the assets to do any of those deals. 

 

so now Treliving is getting roasted for giving up too much to improve the team and not giving up enough at the same time. 

 

Had he made a deal and still missed the playoffs, which I would suggest is very likely, would you say he did the right thing?

you miss my simple point. He did almost nothing to help the team.

 

It has nothing to do with giving up too much. He gives up too much in off season trades and gives up too much in FA signings. It has only to do with helping the team. He misjudged the team as having a chance without help, so pretty much stood pat on his hand. He judged wrong even though he hinted at internal problems.

 

If he made a deal and we still missed then at least he tried. He should have known we were borderline. 

And I used those example to show successful pickups can work not how much it costs. If you want some help at trade deadline then it like is going to cost. It is the nature of deadline pickups. Those were all examples of pickups that helped their teams. How many of those 3 are still in the playoffs Cross?

[DirtyDeeds]

4 hours ago, rickross said:

BT reacted appropriately this TDL. I think he was feeling like many of us as he still didn't know who the Flames were at the time. No sense in panicking and overpaying, he let it play through and here we are today with a new coach. GG never established an identity to this team and Mike Smith masked a lot of the team's weaknesses...that makes it hard to properly assess exactly what you have in your team. I think BT did the right thing, he did pick up a guy like Shore that could prove useful for depth but he didn't force anything

If BT does not know this team after what 5 seasons he should step down. If he has not got a pulse on the team he should not be running this team.

 

Shore is/was useful for the future. He was not a help for the playoff run. Might turn out a good Stajan replacement.

[rickross]

3 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

If BT does not know this team after what 5 seasons he should step down. If he has not got a pulse on the team he should not be running this team.

 

Shore is/was useful for the future. He was not a help for the playoff run. Might turn out a good Stajan replacement.

I'm not saying BT doesn't have a good handle on this team. 1st yr with GG Flames are a bubble team that limped into the playoffs and failed to win even 1 playoff game. 2nd year the Flames were wildly inconsistent the entire year, sure they'd played well leading up to TDL but nobody was convinced. It would have been a mistake to pretend this team was a legitimate Cup contender and start loading up for some mythical playoff run. We don't have the picks or quality players to make the kinds of transactions you were hoping for and its good BT stood pat on what would become a wasted season anyway

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

If BT does not know this team after what 5 seasons he should step down. If he has not got a pulse on the team he should not be running this team.

 

Shore is/was useful for the future. He was not a help for the playoff run. Might turn out a good Stajan replacement.

I read something that makes some sense in that both BT and BP are now on contracts ending in 3 years. Starting with the BP hire they need the best 3 year plan they can come up with now. The starting position IMO is a good one so get at it.

[rocketdoctor]

4 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

If BT does not know this team after what 5 seasons he should step down. If he has not got a pulse on the team he should not be running this team.

 

Shore is/was useful for the future. He was not a help for the playoff run. Might turn out a good Stajan replacement.

 

4 seasons I think, but I take your point.

 

IMHO he did have the pulse of the team and made the right decision at the deadline.

 

 

 

[cross16]

5 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

you miss my simple point. He did almost nothing to help the team.

 

It has nothing to do with giving up too much.

 

I'm not missing anything, I just don't bye or agree with your logic. I agree he did almost nothing to help the team but I happen to agree that was the right decision. This isn't the try league it's the get it done league so him making a deal so he can say well hey I tried, does nothing for me. I don't think any deal he could have made would have made the difference between making the playoffs or not. 

 

5 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

 

And I used those example to show successful pickups can work not how much it costs. If you want some help at trade deadline then it like is going to cost. It is the nature of deadline pickups. Those were all examples of pickups that helped their teams. How many of those 3 are still in the playoffs Cross?

 

Yes it will and it was a cost the Flames could not afford. If you cannot afford something why does it make sense to still go shopping especially if it only might help? No trade deadline deal every guarantees you success and most of them tend to make no difference. How many of those teams that made those deals would have missed the playoffs if they didn't make those deals? Do we seriously want to have a discussion that if the Jets didn't pick up Statsny they would have missed? Sharks were going to miss if they didn't pick up Kane?

 

Ducks, Flyers, and Avs all made deals that were on par to the Flames. Caps picked up a bottom pairing dman so maybe you can argue they got more but pretty silly argument IMO. How did these teams make the playoffs without making bigger deals?

 

Like I said at the end of they day him trying to make a deal means nothing to me and this team was very likely going to miss the playoffs irregardless of whatever deal he could have made. We clearly have different versions of how a GM should operate. 

[phoenix66]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Like I said at the end of they day him trying to make a deal means nothing to me and this team was very likely going to miss the playoffs irregardless of whatever deal he could have made. We clearly have different versions of how a GM should operate. 

Exactly.. I mean what would the conversation in here look like if we had traded Fox, Andersson , some picks or even a roster player or 2 and still sit out of the playoffs..with a now UFA or 2 that we may or may not re-sign. We'd be calling for everybody's head.

 

I'll be watching very intently in the offseason.. to date he doesn't have any "hockey trades" on his resume. Meaning trading a roster player to get another roster player back to fill a different need. This will be interesting to see how he makes out , because he likely has to do one or 2.