Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[robrob74]

52 minutes ago, rickross said:

Excellent point. We've taken Gio for granted the last few years because he hasn't put up the same offensive numbers and the team has been so inconsistent....what has been consistent though is Gio. He's ALWAYS been our top defender, what's really crazy about Gio is how he's never had the chance to fully develop with a consistent partner...yet somehow he elevates all of his partners play. 

 

Imagine being Gio's linemate, knowing the guy is so sound and so responsible in his end that it enables you to play with complete confidence in your game, hence all his partners career years. The guy just won the Muhammad Ali Humanitarian Award...and he's the captain of our team! This is why I don't believe Tkachuk will earn more than Gio, the Flames aren't just paying for great athletes their paying for excellent people. At this point in time no one epitomizes this more than Gio. 

 

Just cuz I've crowned Gio doesn't mean I'm not for trading his aging a$* if and when the right offer comes available lol!!

 

Seriously though...looking back on the return for Iggy was illegally shameful! I can't believe Feaster tried selling us on Ben Hanowski...I hate Chiarelli even more now

 

Oh god! What horrible deals. It goes to show we traded him way too late. I think the year before should’ve been time, or even the year before that.

[stubblejumper1]

56 minutes ago, rickross said:

Excellent point. We've taken Gio for granted the last few years because he hasn't put up the same offensive numbers and the team has been so inconsistent....what has been consistent though is Gio. He's ALWAYS been our top defender, what's really crazy about Gio is how he's never had the chance to fully develop with a consistent partner...yet somehow he elevates all of his partners play. 

 

Imagine being Gio's linemate, knowing the guy is so sound and so responsible in his end that it enables you to play with complete confidence in your game, hence all his partners career years. The guy just won the Muhammad Ali Humanitarian Award...and he's the captain of our team! This is why I don't believe Tkachuk will earn more than Gio, the Flames aren't just paying for great athletes their paying for excellent people. At this point in time no one epitomizes this more than Gio. 

 

Just cuz I've crowned Gio doesn't mean I'm not for trading his aging a$* if and when the right offer comes available lol!!

 

Seriously though...looking back on the return for Iggy was illegally shameful! I can't believe Feaster tried selling us on Ben Hanowski...I hate Chiarelli even more now

 

I think Giordano is the best defenseman this team has had since Al Macinnis.  I won't be at all surprised if Brodie is suddenly a really good player again this year.

 

Having said that, it's not like he plays at the level of Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin or McDavid.  I see no reason why he has to be the highest paid player on the team.  Three or four years from now there is a very good chance Tkachuk will be a much more important player than Giordano.  I am sure Tkachuk's agent will find it difficult to accept that Giordano should be paid more than Tkachuk in 2021.

 

In fact, I would go as far as to say that this team can't be a true contender if their best and/or highest paid player is "only" worth $6.75 MM/year.  Unless, of course, one subscribes to the belief that Brad Treliving is a better negotiator than every other GM in the NHL.

[MAC331]

21 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I think Giordano is the best defenseman this team has had since Al Macinnis.  I won't be at all surprised if Brodie is suddenly a really good player again this year.

 

Having said that, it's not like he plays at the level of Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin or McDavid.  I see no reason why he has to be the highest paid player on the team.  Three or four years from now there is a very good chance Tkachuk will be a much more important player than Giordano.  I am sure Tkachuk's agent will find it difficult to accept that Giordano should be paid more than Tkachuk in 2021.

 

In fact, I would go as far as to say that this team can't be a true contender if their best and/or highest paid player is "only" worth $6.75 MM/year.  Unless, of course, one subscribes to the belief that Brad Treliving is a better negotiator than every other GM in the NHL.

I don't think Giordano's salary is the high marker for anyone on the team, nor do I think it is written anywhere that no player will be paid more than him. During the early rebuild period when Gaudreau and Monahan were renegotiating their contracts was also a time where they had not been here long or achieved outlandish results. I think both were paid appropriately.

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I think Giordano is the best defenseman this team has had since Al Macinnis.  I won't be at all surprised if Brodie is suddenly a really good player again this year.

 

Having said that, it's not like he plays at the level of Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin or McDavid.  I see no reason why he has to be the highest paid player on the team.  Three or four years from now there is a very good chance Tkachuk will be a much more important player than Giordano.  I am sure Tkachuk's agent will find it difficult to accept that Giordano should be paid more than Tkachuk in 2021.

 

In fact, I would go as far as to say that this team can't be a true contender if their best and/or highest paid player is "only" worth $6.75 MM/year.  Unless, of course, one subscribes to the belief that Brad Treliving is a better negotiator than every other GM in the NHL.

 

Thats assuming Tkachuk is the best or is going to be the best player on the team. That’s really thought of highly. I don’t see him there. I see him as a Brown type player in LA, important to the team, but not the best on it. He can still be a great leader without being the best player. 

 

I really like Tkachuk and i think he is someone I see as needed on the team. 

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

Thats assuming Tkachuk is the best or is going to be the best player on the team. That’s really thought of highly. I don’t see him there. I see him as a Brown type player in LA, important to the team, but not the best on it. He can still be a great leader without being the best player. 

 

I really like Tkachuk and i think he is someone I see as needed on the team. 

It appears many are getting way ahead of themselves on Tkachuk.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think Giordano's salary is the high marker for anyone on the team, nor do I think it is written anywhere that no player will be paid more than him. During the early rebuild period when Gaudreau and Monahan were renegotiating there contracts was also a time where they had not been here long or achieved outlandish results. I think both were paid appropriately.

 

I agree. I think Tkachuk might be worth only what Backlund gets. That’s right now. Some say he is going to improve his numbers leaps and bounds, we’ll  see. 

 

If if he has tapped out as a consistent 55point guy, is that a bad thing? Right now that is what he is.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, rickross said:

Seriously though...looking back on the return for Iggy was illegally shameful! I can't believe Feaster tried selling us on Ben Hanowski...I hate Chiarelli even more now

 

Umm, didn't we trade with PITTS?

I hate Chia too, but I'm kinda glad he's in EDM to mess things up for them.

[cccsberg]

3 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I think Giordano is the best defenseman this team has had since Al Macinnis.  I won't be at all surprised if Brodie is suddenly a really good player again this year.

 

Having said that, it's not like he plays at the level of Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin or McDavid.  I see no reason why he has to be the highest paid player on the team.  Three or four years from now there is a very good chance Tkachuk will be a much more important player than Giordano.  I am sure Tkachuk's agent will find it difficult to accept that Giordano should be paid more than Tkachuk in 2021.

 

In fact, I would go as far as to say that this team can't be a true contender if their best and/or highest paid player is "only" worth $6.75 MM/year.  Unless, of course, one subscribes to the belief that Brad Treliving is a better negotiator than every other GM in the NHL.

BT is a great negotiator, clearly.  But that’s not the point.  Timing and great signings have kept the numbers down.  If Gaudreau re-signed today he would be higher.  As for Tkachuk,  he isn’t even the Flames top, second or even third best forward at this point.  If he gets to that point then something above Gio will be warranted.  At this point it isn’t.

[rickross]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. I think Tkachuk might be worth only what Backlund gets. That’s right now. Some say he is going to improve his numbers leaps and bounds, we’ll  see. 

 

If if he has tapped out as a consistent 55point guy, is that a bad thing? Right now that is what he is.

Tkachuk won't get more than Gaudreau and Monahan, Tkachuk doesn't deserve 1st line $ yet, he's been a 2nd line player and will be paid closer to what Backlund just resigned for. If he does crack the 1st line and excels of course that could change but he's still not yet at the level of JH or Gio

[conundrumed]

12 hours ago, cccsberg said:

BT is a great negotiator, clearly.  But that’s not the point.  Timing and great signings have kept the numbers down.  If Gaudreau re-signed today he would be higher.  As for Tkachuk,  he isn’t even the Flames top, second or even third best forward at this point.  If he gets to that point then something above Gio will be warranted.  At this point it isn’t.

Like giving Familton a one way to watermark who gets one ways?

Then piss and moan that everyone wants one ways?

He wants to use benchmarks when it's favourable to him, but would like to forget his own benchmarks.

It was that signing that kept Jankowski/Hathaway off of the starting roster last year.

Freddie Hamilton on a 1 way

[kehatch]

12 hours ago, rickross said:

Tkachuk won't get more than Gaudreau and Monahan, Tkachuk doesn't deserve 1st line $ yet, he's been a 2nd line player and will be paid closer to what Backlund just resigned for. If he does crack the 1st line and excels of course that could change but he's still not yet at the level of JH or Gio

 

Which is why Tkachuk probably isn't signing a contract until the summer. He produced at a 0.72 PPG pace playing on a defensive line. His goals per games played average was better then Monahan's, projecting at 40 over 82 games. There is a very real chance Tkachuk is second in points and first in goals next season. 

 

That is just talking about the offensive numbers. He is the second best defensive forward on the team, one of the best agitators in the league, and he was third in points despite missing 14 games. 

 

Gaudreau and Monahan had arguably better sophomore years, at least offensively. I am not discounting those guys. But with the cap going up I doubt he signs for less then them. It may even be more if he takes a (likely) step forward this season. Especially if he stays healthy (the one knock against him). 

[MAC331]

52 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Which is why Tkachuk probably isn't signing a contract until the summer. He produced at a 0.72 PPG pace playing on a defensive line. His goals per games played average was better then Monahan's, projecting at 40 over 82 games. There is a very real chance Tkachuk is second in points and first in goals next season. 

 

That is just talking about the offensive numbers. He is the second best defensive forward on the team, one of the best agitators in the league, and he was third in points despite missing 14 games. 

 

Gaudreau and Monahan had arguably better sophomore years, at least offensively. I am not discounting those guys. But with the cap going up I doubt he signs for less then them. It may even be more if he takes a (likely) step forward this season. Especially if he stays healthy (the one knock against him). 

Tkachuk is the 2nd best defensive forward on the team ??? I don't think so.

Also I see Tkachuk getting most of his points with assists only because he is a very good playmaker. Top goal scorer, I don't think so.

[MAC331]

17 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. I think Tkachuk might be worth only what Backlund gets. That’s right now. Some say he is going to improve his numbers leaps and bounds, we’ll  see. 

 

If if he has tapped out as a consistent 55point guy, is that a bad thing? Right now that is what he is.

Hey I wish nothing but the best for Tkachuk. If he takes off offensively pay him would be my approach. Trade Gaudreau.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Which is why Tkachuk probably isn't signing a contract until the summer. He produced at a 0.72 PPG pace playing on a defensive line. His goals per games played average was better then Monahan's, projecting at 40 over 82 games. There is a very real chance Tkachuk is second in points and first in goals next season. 

 

That is just talking about the offensive numbers. He is the second best defensive forward on the team, one of the best agitators in the league, and he was third in points despite missing 14 games. 

 

Gaudreau and Monahan had arguably better sophomore years, at least offensively. I am not discounting those guys. But with the cap going up I doubt he signs for less then them. It may even be more if he takes a (likely) step forward this season. Especially if he stays healthy (the one knock against him). 

 

I don;t understand the concept of a Gio cap.  It once made sense that your best player and captain should be making the most.  But that was 3 years ago, and it was for a player's last NHL contract.  You can only use that number for so long.  JH and Monahan today would not be that cheap.  

 

It makes the most sense for BT to offer max dollars now.  Don;t worry about what Gio or JH is making.  Find out what number you need to get to and sign the deal.  It's only going to go up.  Even if he doesn't score 30 this year, the cap will go up just a little more.  A smart agent will look at % of the cap and compare JH's at the time of signing.  You have to be reasonable as a GM and understand the market.  Players less important are being offered way more.  Some artificial internal cap will result in becoming a team like OTT.    

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Tkachuk is the 2nd best defensive forward on the team ??? I don't think so.

Also I see Tkachuk getting most of his points with assists only because he is a very good playmaker. Top goal scorer, I don't think so.

 

It depends how you define defensive player. His lack of speed will limit his time on the PK. But 5 on 5 he started most often in the D zone and excelled. He wasn't just a passenger on the 3M line. He was a driver. He is a smart player and he is willing to do the work. 

 

As for goal scoring, he was tied for second in goals scored on the team despite missing games. He is very good in front of the net and has put the puck in at all levels. I don't see that changing. 

[LouCifer]

Misunderstood some of the above posts. Removed my entry. 

 

Tkachuk is is a great player and fit for our team, and I’m comfortable with the person in charge of working out his next deal. Go flames!

[Going4TheCup]

5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Hey I wish nothing but the best for Tkachuk. If he takes off offensively pay him would be my approach. Trade Gaudreau.

Why do you keep saying to trade Gaudreau?? if anything we should try keeping him for as long as possible.

[rickross]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don;t understand the concept of a Gio cap.  It once made sense that your best player and captain should be making the most.  But that was 3 years ago, and it was for a player's last NHL contract.  You can only use that number for so long.  JH and Monahan today would not be that cheap.  

 

It makes the most sense for BT to offer max dollars now.  Don;t worry about what Gio or JH is making.  Find out what number you need to get to and sign the deal.  It's only going to go up.  Even if he doesn't score 30 this year, the cap will go up just a little more.  A smart agent will look at % of the cap and compare JH's at the time of signing.  You have to be reasonable as a GM and understand the market.  Players less important are being offered way more.  Some artificial internal cap will result in becoming a team like OTT.    

It's gone on for some time actually, this "captaincy cap"was in place when Iggy was playing too. I honestly think it's purely ownerships'philosophy. It makes sense but it's unrealistic too! 

[420since1974]

Even If it's true that "it's purely ownership's' philosophy", I don't expect it to last too many more years.

The market will have risen substantially by the end of Giordano's contract (2021/2022).

Gaudreau will be a UFA when Gio's contract expires and Monahan will be one year away from the same.

I won't be surprised if someone on the team is making over $7M per season by then.

[cccsberg]

21 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Like giving Familton a one way to watermark who gets one ways?

Then piss and moan that everyone wants one ways?

He wants to use benchmarks when it's favourable to him, but would like to forget his own benchmarks.

It was that signing that kept Jankowski/Hathaway off of the starting roster last year.

Freddie Hamilton on a 1 way

I agree in a sense, however the reality (it seems) is that FHamilton was all about keeping DHamilton happy and nothing about FHamilton himself.

[cccsberg]

18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don;t understand the concept of a Gio cap.  It once made sense that your best player and captain should be making the most.  But that was 3 years ago, and it was for a player's last NHL contract.  You can only use that number for so long.  JH and Monahan today would not be that cheap.  

 

It makes the most sense for BT to offer max dollars now.  Don;t worry about what Gio or JH is making.  Find out what number you need to get to and sign the deal.  It's only going to go up.  Even if he doesn't score 30 this year, the cap will go up just a little more.  A smart agent will look at % of the cap and compare JH's at the time of signing.  You have to be reasonable as a GM and understand the market.  Players less important are being offered way more.  Some artificial internal cap will result in becoming a team like OTT.    

Ottawa 2 years ago was a darn fine team.  Until Phaneuf got selfish about his NTC things were rolling and they were a serious contending team.  Well, now that I think about it, the end with their long-time Captain wasn't all that great.  Hmmm, the Hamburgler-Stone run.... OK, you have a point.

[MAC331]

22 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

It depends how you define defensive player. His lack of speed will limit his time on the PK. But 5 on 5 he started most often in the D zone and excelled. He wasn't just a passenger on the 3M line. He was a driver. He is a smart player and he is willing to do the work. 

 

As for goal scoring, he was tied for second in goals scored on the team despite missing games. He is very good in front of the net and has put the puck in at all levels. I don't see that changing. 

I never said he doesn't put in the work but there is a reason he was cast with Backlund and Frolik. Offensively there is no doubt he knows his way around the offensive zone both as a playmaker and scorer, this is where he excels.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I agree in a sense, however the reality (it seems) is that FHamilton was all about keeping DHamilton happy and nothing about FHamilton himself.

That's poor mgmt practice if true though.

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, Going4TheCup said:

Why do you keep saying to trade Gaudreau?? if anything we should try keeping him for as long as possible.

I will always question the durability of smaller players but in this case I can see Tkachuk over-taking him to be our #1 line LW. If he is still a highly productive forward the GM at the time will have a decision to make. Plus we should be able to get a beneficial deal in return to possibly make the team even better. We'll see, just a thought.

[MAC331]

5 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Ottawa 2 years ago was a darn fine team.  Until Phaneuf got selfish about his NTC things were rolling and they were a serious contending team.  Well, now that I think about it, the end with their long-time Captain wasn't all that great.  Hmmm, the Hamburgler-Stone run.... OK, you have a point.

Brian Murray RIP was IMO not a great GM and made as many bonehead deals as possibly good ones. Phaneuf is an over-paid loser and never should have been added to that OTT team. The best thing OTT could do right now is trade Karlsson and get on with a fast retooling of that team so guys like Stone and Duchene wat to stay around. Oh yeah and get new ownership.