Flames Defense

[The_People1]

Cam Talbot has had a resurgence this season. I wonder how much of that has to do with the addition of Adam Larsson and Kris Russell along with improved Klefbom. 

 

Larsson especially has been key.   

 

And that goes back to the Flames who don't have that shutdown D for when it matters most.  We must get one or we are going nowhere.  The Oilers are able to answer or our top forwards.  We don't have answers to theirs. 

 

It's apparent that if we don't get a shutdown D, then it doesn't matter who we get as our goalie.  His numbers won't look pretty.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Cam Talbot has had a resurgence this season. I wonder how much of that has to do with the addition of Adam Larsson and Kris Russell along with improved Klefbom. 

 

Larsson especially has been key.   

 

And that goes back to the Flames who don't have that shutdown D for when it matters most.  We must get one or we are going nowhere.  The Oilers are able to answer or our top forwards.  We don't have answers to theirs. 

 

It's apparent that if we don't get a shutdown D, then it doesn't matter who we get as our goalie.  His numbers won't look pretty.

 

I definitely agree with this. I think we have a good start to the D, but I've been preaching for a shut down the past few years. We say we have a good mobile D, but yes, we have four offensive guys, and they are all decent to good defensively, but sometimes make a bad decision here and there. There just isn't the shut down type who is heavy on the other team's stars. 

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I definitely agree with this. I think we have a good start to the D, but I've been preaching for a shut down the past few years. We say we have a good mobile D, but yes, we have four offensive guys, and they are all decent to good defensively, but sometimes make a bad decision here and there. There just isn't the shut down type who is heavy on the other team's stars. 

 

Totals man.   I get we want all Offensive minded D if we played Hartley style but under a structured team game, we need to balance the D pairings. If we want to consider Giordano great at both sides of the game then that's fair.  But Brodie and Hamilton are not.  

[MAC331]

34 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Totals man.   I get we want all Offensive minded D if we played Hartley style but under a structured team game, we need to balance the D pairings. If we want to consider Giordano great at both sides of the game then that's fair.  But Brodie and Hamilton are not.  

I would settle for defensemen that can put the puck on the net and you don't have to be totally offensive minded for that. Take SJS for an example the D is to funnel all their shots towards the net and let their forwards go to work.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Totals man.   I get we want all Offensive minded D if we played Hartley style but under a structured team game, we need to balance the D pairings. If we want to consider Giordano great at both sides of the game then that's fair.  But Brodie and Hamilton are not.  

 

I don't agree with that. Brodie and Hamilton IMO are both well above average in their own zone. I know you won't agree but Brodie has been great the last 2 months and once he settled in with Gio, Hamilton has been great too. 

 

I don't disagree with the need for a more shutdown d type but I don't think that is the critical problem with the flames d. The Problem the Flames have is a lack of depth. They have 3 very good NHL dmean, 1 decent but not great bottom pairing dman (Engelland), and then 3 other guys that really shouldn't be playing full time in the NHL (Wideman, Jokipakka and whoever). Nowadays when pretty much ever team has 3 good lines you'll get exposed that way so quick, and the Flames have. 

 

that's why I think is so critical about what Edmonton did last year. Sure you can argue they are more "defensive" guys, but last year over half their D was not NHL calibre and now they can roll 3 NHL calibre pairings which is huge. Flames can't say they can do that. 

 

 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't agree with that. Brodie and Hamilton IMO are both well above average in their own zone. I know you won't agree but Brodie has been great the last 2 months and once he settled in with Gio, Hamilton has been great too. 

 

I don't disagree with the need for a more shutdown d type but I don't think that is the critical problem with the flames d. The Problem the Flames have is a lack of depth. They have 3 very good NHL dmean, 1 decent but not great bottom pairing dman (Engelland), and then 3 other guys that really shouldn't be playing full time in the NHL (Wideman, Jokipakka and whoever). Nowadays when pretty much ever team has 3 good lines you'll get exposed that way so quick, and the Flames have. 

 

that's why I think is so critical about what Edmonton did last year. Sure you can argue they are more "defensive" guys, but last year over half their D was not NHL calibre and now they can roll 3 NHL calibre pairings which is huge. Flames can't say they can do that. 

 

 

We have to live through this, it is the only way these players will ever gain the necessary experience,

[Carty]

I wish that we had a Bieber crusher like Pronger on D...

 

       

[jjgallow]

GAVIN BAYREUTHER:

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=178941

 

He's injured, but I think the Flames should consider signing this kid.   Just a thought.

 

Looking forward to the 2017 US College free agent thread!  (a little premature, I suppose)

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

GAVIN BAYREUTHER:

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=178941

 

He's injured, but I think the Flames should consider signing this kid.   Just a thought.

 

Looking forward to the 2017 US College free agent thread!  (a little premature, I suppose)

 

Hmm I don't see that happening, why do you suggest it?

[jjgallow]

10 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Hmm I don't see that happening, why do you suggest it?

 

I don't see it happening either.  But I do see it happening with some NHL team.  I don't see him going untouched past the US college signing season.

He's putting up in credible numbers, he has size, i wish he was a RH shot but oh well, he's assistant captain, he's strong defensively, I think he will be signed more aggressively than expected.

 

On any account, we'll need to start a US College free agent thread up some time soon here.   And the Flames really need depth on defence, imho.

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

GAVIN BAYREUTHER:

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=178941

 

He's injured, but I think the Flames should consider signing this kid.   Just a thought.

 

Looking forward to the 2017 US College free agent thread!  (a little premature, I suppose)

 

 

Have to ask this because you alluded to Fox being head and shoulder above any college D-man, ever.  Seems like this guy Gavin had a similar 1st year.  

[jjgallow]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Have to ask this because you alluded to Fox being head and shoulder above any college D-man, ever.  Seems like this guy Gavin had a similar 1st year.  

 

That is why I think we should look at him, yes.    But he has one of those funny draft ages, thus I don't think teams knew how to evaluate him and he was never drafted.

 

He was actually a year older than Fox in his freshman year, and he played high school hockey in his draft elligible year.  His team was also stacked with the Carey brothers.

 

So does it count?  I don't know.   But he's finishing strong and...if he could be had for free...would be extremely strong AHL depth at the very worst.

[Flyerfan52]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

GAVIN BAYREUTHER:

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=178941

 

He's injured, but I think the Flames should consider signing this kid.   Just a thought.

 

Looking forward to the 2017 US College free agent thread!  (a little premature, I suppose)

 

The ? is whether the Flames are ready to turn him pro immediately. Once he signs that contract his college career is over.

If you draft a college player you own his rights but unlike a signed junior remaining eligible US colleges are strict about their players being amateur or (@ least give that appearance ).

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The ? is whether the Flames are ready to turn him pro immediately. Once he signs that contract his college career is over.

If you draft a college player you own his rights but unlike a signed junior remaining eligible US colleges are strict about their players being amateur or (@ least give that appearance ).

 

 

Its why i wonder why us colleges don't allow jr players to play in college. They don't make money and they're now fighting to get paid a minimum wage to play. 

 

I guess it is because the organization pays trainers to train them? Flights and room and board?

 

[JTech780]

43 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The ? is whether the Flames are ready to turn him pro immediately. Once he signs that contract his college career is over.

If you draft a college player you own his rights but unlike a signed junior remaining eligible US colleges are strict about their players being amateur or (@ least give that appearance ).

 

This is his last year of college eligibility.

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The ? is whether the Flames are ready to turn him pro immediately. Once he signs that contract his college career is over.

If you draft a college player you own his rights but unlike a signed junior remaining eligible US colleges are strict about their players being amateur or (@ least give that appearance ).

 

lol...   appearances can be deceiving, can't they?

 

Answer:   Pro:   Yes (I think that's a safe call in this situation)

 

NHL:  Can't say until he plays.   But could potentially jump straight to NHL.   Would be a training camp decision.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

This is his last year of college eligibility.

 

yup.   I think there's a good list of them this year (unlike last year's dismal showing).  Should be very interesting.

[robrob74]

The Flames still need to stop the turnovers in our own zone. I agree that Wideman made a huge bonehead play in the game tonight. But they really need to get someone else. 

[travel_dude]

On 2/6/2017 at 0:30 AM, jjgallow said:

 

lol...   appearances can be deceiving, can't they?

 

Answer:   Pro:   Yes (I think that's a safe call in this situation)

 

NHL:  Can't say until he plays.   But could potentially jump straight to NHL.   Would be a training camp decision.

 

Why wasn't he drafted in 2013/14 after a stellar frosh year?  Was there some reason nobody picked a player with such high offensive number? 30 teams passed on him.  Perhaps the scouts didn;t like something about him.  Can't say.  Not in McKenzie's book of draft?  Wouldn't be the first.

 

Even if we happened to sign him, he could still be sent to Stockton.  

[Flyerfan52]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Why wasn't he drafted in 2013/14 after a stellar frosh year?  Was there some reason nobody picked a player with such high offensive number? 30 teams passed on him.  Perhaps the scouts didn;t like something about him.  Can't say.  Not in McKenzie's book of draft?  Wouldn't be the first.

 

Even if we happened to sign him, he could still be sent to Stockton.  

That does raise red flags. Probably better to offer a training camp invite so we can judge the intangibles that never show up in sportswriters profiles as you don't get those from stats. Scouts employed by teams look closely @ things like off ice behaviour & how he treats his billets (@ least the best 1s do).

[conundrumed]

On 2/6/2017 at 0:31 AM, jjgallow said:

 

yup.   I think there's a good list of them this year (unlike last year's dismal showing).  Should be very interesting.

Unfortunately, college players that go undrafted to be signed/invited is still like trying to find a diamond in a mountain of coal.

Almost like real estate, but opposite, buy the best player on the worst team!

[jjgallow]

21 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Why wasn't he drafted in 2013/14 after a stellar frosh year?  Was there some reason nobody picked a player with such high offensive number? 30 teams passed on him.  Perhaps the scouts didn;t like something about him.  Can't say.  Not in McKenzie's book of draft?  Wouldn't be the first.

 

Even if we happened to sign him, he could still be sent to Stockton.  

 

If I've done my math right, he wouldn't have qualified for the draft after his stellar freshman year (slightly too old).

 

My guess is, he will be signed.  Unlikely for him to be passed over now.

 

The question, is where.

[redfire11]

I really haven't minded Engeland's play this year and his cap is bearable. I keep thinking he would pair well with TJ. With that said it would be nice to see if one of Wotherspoon, Kulak, Jyrki could play RHD.

That would give us 2 top 20+ minute defense lines and a 3 rd pairing of young D with sheltered minutes. (hoping Wideman retires)

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I really haven't minded Engeland's play this year and his cap is bearable. I keep thinking he would pair well with TJ. With that said it would be nice to see if one of Wotherspoon, Kulak, Jyrki could play RHD.

That would give us 2 top 20+ minute defense lines and a 3 rd pairing of young D with sheltered minutes. (hoping Wideman retires)

I'm not sure that would be a wise move, not that Engelland couldn't make that move but a 3rd pairing out of the 3 you mention playing an offside and limited experience would or could be worse. I think we need help from outside at the TDL to find Brodie a RS partner with experience and leave Engelland in the 3rd pairing as support for the young defensemen.

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

If I've done my math right, he wouldn't have qualified for the draft after his stellar freshman year (slightly too old).

 

My guess is, he will be signed.  Unlikely for him to be passed over now.

 

The question, is where.

 

Every year since his first year, he has had the opportunity to be signed, if I am not mistaken.  He could have been invited by any team to attend a Young Prospects tourney, at his own expense, and still maintain NCAA eligibility.

 

Draft eligible or not, there was a window he could have signed with any team.  He wasn't.  I may be 100% wrong on this, but he doesn't fall into the Schultz category of having to wait till he leaves and be August 15th to be free to sign with anyone.  The question pops up, why he hasn't been signed.