Goaltending

[jjgallow]

Always a good sign with we bring on another 30-year old goalie who's never been exceptional, except this time we do it for $36 million....

 

and nobody could even be bothered to updated the goaltending thread.   

 

Because what do you even say.

 

[JTech780]

Finally have our number 1 goalie, first time since Kipper left. Markstrom was the biggest difference maker on the market. Pretty happy to not have go with filler in the net anymore.

[Thebrewcrew]

4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Finally have our number 1 goalie, first time since Kipper left. Markstrom was the biggest difference maker on the market. Pretty happy to not have go with filler in the net anymore.

A football quote that I really like is "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none".

 

I think that applies a lot to goaltending. Sure, it's a tandem league, but there's something to be said for having a #1 goalie. There's a lot of comfort in knowing which guy is starting the bulk of games for you and it's no longer ride the hot hand. I'm just happy they aren't going with patchwork in net anymore. 

[jjgallow]

Jesper Wallstedt

 

If we can't have Askarov, can we have this guy please?

 

https://dobberprospects.com/player/jesper-wallstedt/

 

Thanks

[jjgallow]

 

Sorry, where are we discussing the Rittich trade...here?

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/rittichs-cinderella-story-starts-new-chapter-trade-maple-leafs/

 

I like the trade.   A 2nd rounder would have been nice but overall I like it.

 

I complained about Riitch a lot of the years.   Truth is I never had an issue with him as a goalie.    I was just upset that they were giving him valuable development minutes over younger more promising goalies.  It was a bit like a death sentence for them.     But anyway that is a whole other debate.     Now we get our third rounder, and the possibility of maybe starting the cycle all over again with, as an example, a strong 3rd round goaltending prospect (or whatever they may be).   

 

Is this a hint of a rebuild?   I dare say it is.   It's not like the Flames didn't need Rittich right now.    With Markstrom still not the same after his concussion, Rittich's underperformance is still the best they have.   Unless they change that in some megadeal trade next.  I really hope not.

 

Wishing Rittich the best on TO, it was time for a change of scene and I must say he has beaten a lot of odds.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Sorry, where are we discussing the Rittich trade...here?

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/rittichs-cinderella-story-starts-new-chapter-trade-maple-leafs/

 

I like the trade.   A 2nd rounder would have been nice but overall I like it.

 

I complained about Riitch a lot of the years.   Truth is I never had an issue with him as a goalie.    I was just upset that they were giving him valuable development minutes over younger more promising goalies.  It was a bit like a death sentence for them.     But anyway that is a whole other debate.     Now we get our third rounder, and the possibility of maybe starting the cycle all over again with, as an example, a strong 3rd round goaltending prospect (or whatever they may be).   

 

Is this a hint of a rebuild?   I dare say it is.   It's not like the Flames didn't need Rittich right now.    With Markstrom still not the same after his concussion, Rittich's underperformance is still the best they have.   Unless they change that in some megadeal trade next.  I really hope not.

 

Wishing Rittich the best on TO, it was time for a change of scene and I must say he has beaten a lot of odds.

I got nothing against Dominigue but this is a perfect time to try and get Zaguidin some more NHL minutes.  At best you get a better look at one of the prospects and maybe a better pick, at worst he follows the trend of Russian goalies in Calgary.

[LouCifer]

All the best to you Ritter! Big fan of yours and dare I say it I hope you win a cup with the leafs! Would love to see you come back though! Kick Hash Rate and take names buddy! BSD! BSD! 👍🏻

[The_People1]

 

 

[travel_dude]

I think he started really strong.  One goal set him off and he fell back to his habit of getting down on himself.

Strong 1st half of the game.

Poor showing after that, but the Leafs made it tough on him.

[cross16]

I feel bad for Rittich. As we know he's prone to errors like that but it sucks is going to happen on such a large stage. I hope it doesn't beat him down. 

[jjgallow]

I feel bad for all the actual prospects we didn't give any development time to so that we could eventually produce these highlight reals instead.

[jjgallow]

 

Welcome to the fold, Adam Werner and Dan Vladar

 

https://www.masslive.com/bruins/2021/07/bruins-trade-dan-vladar-obscured-by-a-day-of-high-profile-moves-boston-makes-several-under-the-radar-deals.html

 

https://theahl.com/flames-acquire-vladar-sign-three-others

 

I'm processing.   I am happy anytime we get goaltending depth, but, worried if it interferes with Wolf's development.  You don't want to become a backup goalie factory (ie, Riittich taking all the development minutes a few years ago).  It's potentially a very good thing if managed well.

 

A third rounder is maybe a little steep, and these goalies are maybe a couple years older than I'd like.  

 

BUT

 

The Flames need goaltending depth.   Now they have a little bit more.   I have had my eye on Vladar for a while now and while he's no silver bullet, he has potential.

 

So, in the AHL:

Wolf ...starting..

Werner ...backup

 

NHL:

Markstrom starting

Vladar backup

 

 

Is that the tentative plan?      Any plan that still gives Wolf lots of development, is an improvement with these guys.   

[420since1974]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

So, in the AHL:

Wolf ...starting..

Werner ...backup

 

NHL:

Markstrom starting

Vladar backup

Totally agree.

[conundrumed]

On 4/21/2021 at 2:05 PM, cross16 said:

I feel bad for Rittich. As we know he's prone to errors like that but it sucks is going to happen on such a large stage. I hope it doesn't beat him down. 

It never ceases to amaze me how fans approach their like/dislike of goalies. It's not like players at all. With players, they look at their qualities. Forgive errors.

With goalies, they look at their worst goals against, no forgiveness.

I'll always maintain that Rittich has great mechanics and will always find a place in the NHL because goalie coaches can see that his base skills are very good.

I'd have had no problem bringing him back, but he'll do well in Nashville.

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Welcome to the fold, Adam Werner and Dan Vladar

 

https://www.masslive.com/bruins/2021/07/bruins-trade-dan-vladar-obscured-by-a-day-of-high-profile-moves-boston-makes-several-under-the-radar-deals.html

 

https://theahl.com/flames-acquire-vladar-sign-three-others

 

I'm processing.   I am happy anytime we get goaltending depth, but, worried if it interferes with Wolf's development.  You don't want to become a backup goalie factory (ie, Riittich taking all the development minutes a few years ago).  It's potentially a very good thing if managed well.

 

A third rounder is maybe a little steep, and these goalies are maybe a couple years older than I'd like.  

 

BUT

 

The Flames need goaltending depth.   Now they have a little bit more.   I have had my eye on Vladar for a while now and while he's no silver bullet, he has potential.

 

So, in the AHL:

Wolf ...starting..

Werner ...backup

 

NHL:

Markstrom starting

Vladar backup

 

 

Is that the tentative plan?      Any plan that still gives Wolf lots of development, is an improvement with these guys.   

I don't think anyone really takes away from another's development. Gillies will never be an NHL goalie, so Rittich deserved the time to ready himself for the next step. If anything, they were really slow giving Rittich much starting time in the A, so he earned his time.

Unsure if Vladar is the backup solution, but I've been rampaging for more depth, so like we've added some.

[phoenix66]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Welcome to the fold, Adam Werner and Dan Vladar

 

https://www.masslive.com/bruins/2021/07/bruins-trade-dan-vladar-obscured-by-a-day-of-high-profile-moves-boston-makes-several-under-the-radar-deals.html

 

https://theahl.com/flames-acquire-vladar-sign-three-others

 

I'm processing.   I am happy anytime we get goaltending depth, but, worried if it interferes with Wolf's development.  You don't want to become a backup goalie factory (ie, Riittich taking all the development minutes a few years ago).  It's potentially a very good thing if managed well.

 

A third rounder is maybe a little steep, and these goalies are maybe a couple years older than I'd like.  

 

BUT

 

The Flames need goaltending depth.   Now they have a little bit more.   I have had my eye on Vladar for a while now and while he's no silver bullet, he has potential.

 

So, in the AHL:

Wolf ...starting..

Werner ...backup

 

NHL:

Markstrom starting

Vladar backup

 

 

Is that the tentative plan?      Any plan that still gives Wolf lots of development, is an improvement with these guys.   

did i miss something ?  where is Parsons, does that put him starting in the E?

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

did i miss something ?  where is Parsons, does that put him starting in the E?

At best. I've stopped counting him as a goalie prospect. More as a waste of a 2nd rd pick. Selecting goalies from offence-juggernaut teams should be off the table in the future.lol

Werner was a 5th rder, same draft. Respectable Sv% in 46 AHL appearances vs Parsons' 26 appearances.

[CheersMan]

Parson had a SV% of 0.921 and 0.925 in the two years leading into his draft year. Not sure how his offensive-juggernaut team changes how he stopped pucks. 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

did i miss something ?  where is Parsons, does that put him starting in the E?

 

Until Parsons can stay healthy I'm not sure it maters too much if he is in the E or the A. I would see him playing in both leagues but it doesn't really matter if he can't get healthy and stay healthy. I feel for him, it's been a tough road. 

 

Was never a big Parsons fan and didn't like the pick, but I really want to pull for the kid to at least get a shot. 

 

Flames have done some nice work at this spot the last 2 off seasons. Flames have some nice depth at the goalie spot now and a few different options that could potentially turn into something. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

At best. I've stopped counting him as a goalie prospect. More as a waste of a 2nd rd pick. Selecting goalies from offence-juggernaut teams should be off the table in the future.lol

Werner was a 5th rder, same draft. Respectable Sv% in 46 AHL appearances vs Parsons' 26 appearances.

 

there's also his size/height and health to consider, neither of which give him very good odds.  The unfortunate thing about it is these kinds of picks give us the mentality that we shouldn't use our draft picks on goalies, but maybe a more accurate learning is that we need to be more competent at the management level when it comes to goaltender evaluation and development.   

 

The pick just never made sense.   Dustin Wolf for instance, was always dramatically more talented, and healthier.   But they have similar sizes and that was enough to put Wolf into the 7th round.    By rights that puts Parsons in the 7th round or less.

 

It doesn't mean all 1st and 2nd round goalies picks are regrettable.   It just means most FLAMES goalie picks are.

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

there's also his size/height and health to consider, neither of which give him very good odds.  The unfortunate thing about it is these kinds of picks give us the mentality that we shouldn't use our draft picks on goalies, but maybe a more accurate learning is that we need to be more competent at the management level when it comes to goaltender evaluation and development.   

 

The pick just never made sense.   Dustin Wolf for instance, was always dramatically more talented, and healthier.   But they have similar sizes and that was enough to put Wolf into the 7th round.    By rights that puts Parsons in the 7th round or less.

 

It doesn't mean all 1st and 2nd round goalies picks are regrettable.   It just means most FLAMES goalie picks are.

I was never a Parsons fan and had the eye test enough watching the Knights. Whoever spotted Rittich should be our main goalie scout. Even if Rittich fell off the earth, at least you could see the solid attributes. Never saw much in Parsons. Just that he was cocky because of the all-star team in front of him.

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I was never a Parsons fan and had the eye test enough watching the Knights. Whoever spotted Rittich should be our main goalie scout. Even if Rittich fell off the earth, at least you could see the solid attributes. Never saw much in Parsons. Just that he was cocky because of the all-star team in front of him.

 

That's fair, I will agree.   And also just from 2000 feet up you can say Riitich had the size to make the jump.  Whereas an armchair GM can easily spot Parson's going to have a rough go of it. 

 

I've been tough on Riitich, but I didn't really mean to be, I meant to be tough on the Flames for how they handled things.   And I will continue to be with these acquisitions, who are all a bit older for prospects.    Although I do quite like Vladar.      The Flames seem to have this approach that if they keep acquiring these 23-24 year olds one of them will magically pull a Kipprusoff on them.    

 

It might happen.   

 

Sometime between now and 2050.

 

Another approach would just be drafting great goalies and developing them, rather than trying to cheap out and get lucky on hockey's most important position.

 

Anyway, I am rooting for these guys AS LONG AS they don't interfere with Wolf's development.

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Anyway, I am rooting for these guys AS LONG AS they don't interfere with Wolf's development.

That's not how it works. Prospect goalies don't get in each other's way. They all get the same treatment.

If a 24yr old looks like he could transition soon, you know you have time with a 20yr old. If the 20yr old looks like he'll transition faster, he will get the most playing time.

But they all get the same coaching. No one gets in anyone's way.

Rittich never got in anyone's way, he was just the best option.

He didn't stop Gillies from getting better, Gillies just never got any better.

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

That's fair, I will agree.   And also just from 2000 feet up you can say Riitich had the size to make the jump.  Whereas an armchair GM can easily spot Parson's going to have a rough go of it. 

 

I've been tough on Riitich, but I didn't really mean to be, I meant to be tough on the Flames for how they handled things.   And I will continue to be with these acquisitions, who are all a bit older for prospects.    Although I do quite like Vladar.      The Flames seem to have this approach that if they keep acquiring these 23-24 year olds one of them will magically pull a Kipprusoff on them.    

 

It might happen.   

 

Sometime between now and 2050.

 

Another approach would just be drafting great goalies and developing them, rather than trying to cheap out and get lucky on hockey's most important position.

 

Anyway, I am rooting for these guys AS LONG AS they don't interfere with Wolf's development.

 

We keep drafting goalies, just that they are later picks.

Other than a couple of guys that went early, this years crop was nothing to write home about.

Not enough games to get a good picture.

Parson, Gillies and MacDonald were misses, even if two of them were derailed by injury.

 

The Heat will have two goalies that will be splitting the games.

Werner is 24, so he will just be there to give more time to develop Wolf.

Maybe he shakes out as the best backup we could have.

Who knows.

Not a bad thing to have three goalies/prospects at 6'5" or bigger.

In fact, this is the first time I can think that we have more than one guy that isn't a retread or over the hill.

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's not how it works. Prospect goalies don't get in each other's way. They all get the same treatment.

If a 24yr old looks like he could transition soon, you know you have time with a 20yr old. If the 20yr old looks like he'll transition faster, he will get the most playing time.

But they all get the same coaching. No one gets in anyone's way.

Rittich never got in anyone's way, he was just the best option.

He didn't stop Gillies from getting better, Gillies just never got any better.

 

If Gillies was an isolated incident, we could say that. 

 

But the only homegrown goaltender talent from the Flames who are successful in the NHL, are the ones who left our system first.    IMHO at this point it is the Flames that need to prove they can develop goaltenders, not us who need to prove they can't.