Goaltending

[redfire11]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Good thing it wasn't a playoff game then. 

Yes your correct Cross. A few changes and we could have won that game. Invaluable lessons for the playoffs (If  Learned)

[travel_dude]

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

100%. I'm not pinning the loss on Smith by any means. Just think they Flames are playing pretty good hockey so the criticism is strange to me. Their playing the style of games that win in the playoffs.

 

you would like to see them convert more but I think that will come

 

Two of four goals in a close game were on Smth.  He had a good stop on a breakaway.  The number of shots he faced are a good indication that he was not good overall.

 

We don;t have a Vezina goalie this season, though Rittich was n that converstation earlier in the year.  I don;t get the coach's insistence that Smith is the goto guy.He isn;t.  He can win some games like any good backup, but he doesn;t play well enough to be considered a starter anymore.  The team is always going to say out loud that Smith gives them a chance to win every night.  They are not going to bury him.  What I don;t like to hear is Smith saying "we" when he talks about the mistakes made.  Own it and make the necessary change.  

 

Rittich has a short leash yet has been the better goalie all season.  The team leaves him hanging in NY and MTL and he does what he can to win.  He gives up 2 against a very good SJS team and gets yanked.  Plays one bad game against TBL and somehow we have a goalie problem.  We go all in on Smith to see if we need a goalie at TDL and he responds with wins against PITTS, where we barely outscore them and goes on a bit of a run where team defense helps him out.  No need to bring in another goalie.  We play a game against a team that struggles to generate offense and we see a goal on 11 shots then 3 goals on 12 shots in the 3rd.  

 

I was thinking we may have two good goalies again.  The team had responded to having to play in front of Smith.  I get that he should have started on Iggy night, but it was less about Smith than it was about a vet playing in a game that was all about lifetime achievement.  I don't consider his record this and last season to be anything to write home about.  Had about 1/2 a season where he played so well.  Fell apart, then got injured.  Then stayed at crap level until he went on a run.      

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

A team that won 7 straight and is in the top 5 in all defensive categories isn't playing "that great" ?

 

wow. Tough crowd around here. 

If you think they are playing great that's your opinion. I see a lot of individual efforts, defense pinching when they have no business doing so and getting out of our end or fighting off a good forecheck has us constantly in a panic scramble most times. No I don't think they are playing that great.

[conundrumed]

I don't get it. We aren't going to close out the season 35-0.

Excited about 1 loss after a hard fought February.

My takeaway from last night was mainly, we would kill these guys in a series.

Let's not kid ourselves.

 

[conundrumed]

It was a good example for those that always thought, "Hathaway can be improved upon".

He is an important cog imo. Not your pts guy, but removing him last night had an impact. imho.

No hearing...

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I don't get it. We aren't going to close out the season 35-0.

Excited about 1 loss after a hard fought February.

My takeaway from last night was mainly, we would kill these guys in a series.

Let's not kid ourselves.

 

 

At the end of the day, it's only one loss.

Losing a single game does not concern me.

It's how you lose.

It's how the loss affects the players.

 

The bigger part for me is how they manage the starts from here on.

The Flames want to guarantee home ice.

Smith, even with his 5 game winning streak is still only 19-12-2 with a .895 SV% and 2.92 GAA

Rittich is 22-5-5 with a 913 SA% nd 2.56 GAA.  

Give the guy with the best chance to win and worry about needing a backup in the games you need one.

 

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

At the end of the day, it's only one loss.

Losing a single game does not concern me.

It's how you lose.

It's how the loss affects the players.

 

The bigger part for me is how they manage the starts from here on.

The Flames want to guarantee home ice.

Smith, even with his 5 game winning streak is still only 19-12-2 with a .895 SV% and 2.92 GAA

Rittich is 22-5-5 with a 913 SA% nd 2.56 GAA.  

Give the guy with the best chance to win and worry about needing a backup in the games you need one.

 

Affects the players?

Score more than 2. That's what they should be worried about.

We've been playing room-for-error hockey imo.

Time to tighten it up. Capitalize on chances, show urgency.

Doesn't matter who's in net.

This year is scorers paradise, so score.

[Thebrewcrew]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Affects the players?

Score more than 2. That's what they should be worried about.

We've been playing room-for-error hockey imo.

Time to tighten it up. Capitalize on chances, show urgency.

Doesn't matter who's in net.

This year is scorers paradise, so score.

Yup.

 

The offence has gone MIA the last 5, haven’t scored more than 2 since the home game to the Isles. Hard to win with that, 3/5 games were against basement dwellers, ANA, NJ and OTT, the last two essentially being AHL teams. Probably just a cold spell but as much as Smith struggled last night they shoukd

have scored him more than 2 (Bennett).

[MAC331]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Affects the players?

Score more than 2. That's what they should be worried about.

We've been playing room-for-error hockey imo.

Time to tighten it up. Capitalize on chances, show urgency.

Doesn't matter who's in net.

This year is scorers paradise, so score.

I don't think any of us are all upset about where we are at presently, just that we seem to be getting away from what created the success. We were attacking as a 5 man unit in the early going and now I see a number of individuals forcing situations that are not there. Defensively we were attacking at the blueline and creating turnovers not so much now.

All correctable stuff so hopefully the coaches are on it.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Affects the players?

Score more than 2. That's what they should be worried about.

We've been playing room-for-error hockey imo.

Time to tighten it up. Capitalize on chances, show urgency.

Doesn't matter who's in net.

This year is scorers paradise, so score.

 

I thought they controlled the play last night until the Smith error behind the net leaving the front empty. The game changed.

 

i have a feeling the scorers paradise might be tightening up. I hope Monahan scoring last night opens up the floodgates again, but it’s been pretty tight for them lately.

 

The rest of the team has picked up the slack which I think the first line deserves and what we’ve been hoping for most of the season. Losing Hathaway really shows how effective the 4th line has been. 

 

I think theyve tried to tighten tighten it up, but like you say, it is only one loss and get back at it tomorrow night against the leafs! 

 

The Leafs are up and down this year and we tend to play any style so let’s see which Leafs team comes out. These next few games are good to keep the feet moving and the intensity up. 

[travel_dude]

48 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Affects the players?

Score more than 2. That's what they should be worried about.

We've been playing room-for-error hockey imo.

Time to tighten it up. Capitalize on chances, show urgency.

Doesn't matter who's in net.

This year is scorers paradise, so score.

 

Well, expecting to score 5 against the Ducks, Wild and Debbies may be a bit much considering that the only thing they do well is play defensive hockey.

As it is, we've been held to less than 30 shots twice in the last seven games.

I agree with the other sentiments.

Show urgency on the PP when you are running out of time.

Show urgency when you are out of the net.

 

 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Affects the players?

Score more than 4. That's what they should be worried about.

 

I fixed the above for when Smith is in net. 

 

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

We've been playing room-for-error hockey imo.

Time to tighten it up. Capitalize on chances, show urgency.

 

Agreed.

 

 

[LouCifer]

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

 

 

That's the quote that bothered me.  It's one thing for Smitty to refer to the miscue as "we".  It's another that coaches are learning to expose the one that that make Smitty more than a low level backup (saves and GAA wise).  I see it as a problem against teams that use a two man forecheck.

[robrob74]

57 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's the quote that bothered me.  It's one thing for Smitty to refer to the miscue as "we".  It's another that coaches are learning to expose the one that that make Smitty more than a low level backup (saves and GAA wise).  I see it as a problem against teams that use a two man forecheck.

 

That is the easy way to combat his play. Over a seven game series coaches can read it and make changes accordingly. Whereas I think with a steady goalie who has your number it’s harder to change the game plan other than to really simplify and yet that doesn’t always work.

 

i remember Auld in 04 they were worried about the Flames being able to counter his puck handling as they were a forecheck team that year. Yet they changed the way they attacked. 

[Thebrewcrew]

The issue with Smith’s puckhandling is he’s too brave. A little fear wouldn’t be the worst thing.

 

For my money Rinne is the best puckhandling goalie. Skill wise him and Smith are pretty similar but Rinne picks his spots way better and in general I think his hockey IQ is just higher overall. He doesn’t make many mistakes unlike #41

[travel_dude]

Let me get this out of the way.  I will forgive BP if it's not true, but I am expecting Smith to start again tonight.

It just seems that after a bad game, Smith gets the nod.

Trot him out to improve his own play.

 

 

Come on BP, trust your young goalie.  He has only 5 regulation losses this season in more starts than Smith.

He's had one game where he crapped the bed, and that was against the best team in the NHL (sorry, I mean the 2nd best team, points not withstanding).

At the very least, Rittich needs to start 3 of the next 4.

Smith should play ARI, though they are not easy pickings now.

 

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Let me get this out of the way.  I will forgive BP if it's not true, but I am expecting Smith to start again tonight.

It just seems that after a bad game, Smith gets the nod.

Trot him out to improve his own play.

 

 

Come on BP, trust your young goalie.  He has only 5 regulation losses this season in more starts than Smith.

He's had one game where he crapped the bed, and that was against the best team in the NHL (sorry, I mean the 2nd best team, points not withstanding).

At the very least, Rittich needs to start 3 of the next 4.

Smith should play ARI, though they are not easy pickings now.

 

 

But part of it is load management.  

 

Keep Rittich fresh for the playoffs.  

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But part of it is load management.  

 

Keep Rittich fresh for the playoffs.  

 

If that's the case, then I have no issues with the goalie management.

What I'm starting to see is a shift away from Rittich towards the vet that may get the start.

We can afford to lose a few games right now, but we don't get that luxury in the playoffs.

 

 

[travel_dude]

Rittich in against the Leafs.

Hmmmm.

[travel_dude]

Just a stat that seems to make sense of starting Rittich over Smith.

 

On the year, Rittich owns a .933 save percentage at 5v5. That ranks him near the top of the league, ahead of names like Andrei Vasilevskiy, Pekka Rinne, and John Gibson.

Smith owns a .904 save percentage at 5v5. That puts him below fringe NHLers like Joonas Korpisalo and Antti Niemi. 
 

[phoenix66]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The issue with Smith’s puckhandling is he’s too brave. A little fear wouldn’t be the worst thing.

 

For my money Rinne is the best puckhandling goalie. Skill wise him and Smith are pretty similar but Rinne picks his spots way better and in general I think his hockey IQ is just higher overall. He doesn’t make many mistakes unlike #41

I for one have no issue with Smith handling the puck. Hes likely one of the best ever at doing it , and if not he learned from the Best (Turco)

Every Norris winning Dman has turned over the puck., just that when the goalie does it , its amplified cuz it goes in the net 99/100 times.

 

Our play is based  on speed , and possession and nothing gets you speed up the ice better than the goalie getting it halfway there .. its also why you see the goalie coach working with Rittich in doing the same thing .Our game requires it to be most effective 

he did definitely have an off game saturday, no disputing that , but I seriously do not get the hate that he's been receiving most recently 

[DHT]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Just a stat that seems to make sense of starting Rittich over Smith.

 

On the year, Rittich owns a .933 save percentage at 5v5. That ranks him near the top of the league, ahead of names like Andrei Vasilevskiy, Pekka Rinne, and John Gibson.

Smith owns a .904 save percentage at 5v5. That puts him below fringe NHLers like Joonas Korpisalo and Antti Niemi. 
 

Stats are great because it confirmed the eyes test. This year, the eyes test is nothing to dispute and it would take a moron to say that Smith is better than Rittich. However, there seems to be many morons in the Flames management because Smith is keep getting starter role over Rittich. I just don't get it.

[Cowtownguy]

6 hours ago, DHT said:

Stats are great because it confirmed the eyes test. This year, the eyes test is nothing to dispute and it would take a moron to say that Smith is better than Rittich. However, there seems to be many morons in the Flames management because Smith is keep getting starter role over Rittich. I just don't get it.

I think they are holding out the hope that something will ignite Smith before the playoffs. I don't know what is wrong with him, but he sure reminds me of Hiller.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I think they are holding out the hope that something will ignite Smith before the playoffs. I don't know what is wrong with him, but he sure reminds me of Hiller.

 

I think they went all in on him rebounding.

That's nice.

The goalies will determine who is better.

I think we all know the answer.