Goaltending

[JTech780]

7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The next goalie BT brings in next season, he needs to pay up and get an estalbished no questions asked #1 for the next 5+ years. He's missed on Andersen, Bishop, Talbot, Fleury, and settled for stop gaps in Elliott and Smith. Maybe that goalie isn't Bob but it's time for him to pay up and get the true #1 we haven't had since Kipper.

 

To be fair he offered more than Toronto did from Anderssen, but Anaheim didn't want to trade him in the division. Talbot also isn't really all that good, he had 1 good year in Edmonton and has been pretty average since. Flurry wouldn't waive to come here, so not really on BT.

 

Getting a number 1 goalie isn't as easy it sounds, there is really only about 15 true number 1 goalies in the league.

[cross16]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Didn't Smith play for Torts in Tampa? Smith, Backlund, and a pick for Bobrovsky. The biggest thing here is that Bobrovsky has a full NMC, and I am not sure he would waive to come here. 

 

Very briefly. Torts was fired the off season after they acquired Smith. 

 

Thats way too much to give up for a pending UFA. I don't think he would garner near that much. I don't see a big market if he's dealt during the season. 

 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Very briefly. Torts was fired the off season after they acquired Smith. 

 

Thats way too much to give up for a pending UFA. I don't think he would garner near that much. I don't see a big market if he's dealt during the season. 

 

 

He is the only goalie out there with multiple Vezina Trophies. If we are acquiring a goalie Smith or Rittich have to go the other way, we would also need to shed cap space to be able to sign Bobrovsky at $8m+ and Tkachuk. Maybe we wouldn't need to add a pick.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

To be fair he offered more than Toronto did from Anderssen, but Anaheim didn't want to trade him in the division. Talbot also isn't really all that good, he had 1 good year in Edmonton and has been pretty average since. Flurry wouldn't waive to come here, so not really on BT.

 

Getting a number 1 goalie isn't as easy it sounds, there is really only about 15 true number 1 goalies in the league.

 

Burke said last night is was #35 from CGY, compared to #30 and a 2nd from TO.  The 35th ended up going to STL for Elliott.  He didn;t talk about the 2nd part of what CGY offered, though.

 

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Didn't Smith play for Torts in Tampa? Smith, Backlund, and a pick for Bobrovsky. The biggest thing here is that Bobrovsky has a full NMC, and I am not sure he would waive to come here. 

 

It would need to start with Smith and Bennett at a minimum.  The potential ask from Bennett (assuming he starts to play better and is worth it) is $3m+.  That frees up $4m from the goalie and $2m from current cap for Bennett to re-sign Bob.  Yes, we would need to shed Stone and maybe even one of Brodie or Hammer with Tkachuk's new deal.  Obviously, we only do the deal if we know what the ask is from Bob and we re-sign him before the season is done.

 

Interesting speculation.  If it has legs, then BT has to do it, assuming we can afford the trade.   

[kehatch]

14 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Didn't Smith play for Torts in Tampa? Smith, Backlund, and a pick for Bobrovsky. The biggest thing here is that Bobrovsky has a full NMC, and I am not sure he would waive to come here. 

 

I like th NMC in this case. If he won't waive to come here then he probably won't sign here. And we need a long term solution. 

[cross16]

17 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

He is the only goalie out there with multiple Vezina Trophies. If we are acquiring a goalie Smith or Rittich have to go the other way, we would also need to shed cap space to be able to sign Bobrovsky at $8m+ and Tkachuk. Maybe we wouldn't need to add a pick.

 

If that's the route you want to take I think you pay the deadline price, which would not include Backlund, and then make a deal in the off season to first re coup some assets and free up the space to sign Bobrovsky. Giving up Backlund for a pending UFA just makes no sense to me, irregardless if its Bobrovsky or not, but for me giving up Backlund in order to bring in Bobrovsky also makes no sense to me so i'm a little biased. 

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

If that's the route you want to take I think you pay the deadline price, which would not include Backlund, and then make a deal in the off season to first re coup some assets and free up the space to sign Bobrovsky. Giving up Backlund for a pending UFA just makes no sense to me, irregardless if its Bobrovsky or not, but for me giving up Backlund in order to bring in Bobrovsky also makes no sense to me so i'm a little biased. 

I see us staying the course with what we have coming. It will be Gilles and Rittich in a 1a/1b scenario next season. You heard it here first.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

If that's the route you want to take I think you pay the deadline price, which would not include Backlund, and then make a deal in the off season to first re coup some assets and free up the space to sign Bobrovsky. Giving up Backlund for a pending UFA just makes no sense to me, irregardless if its Bobrovsky or not, but for me giving up Backlund in order to bring in Bobrovsky also makes no sense to me so i'm a little biased. 

 

But we would need to be freed of Backlund's cap hit to sign Bobrovsky long term...

 

...I dont know, I want to stay put to see where we are at at TDL.  If we don't look like a Cup contender then I would be sellers.  We can target Bob as UFA in the summer.  

[The_People1]

Right now we've looked like Cup contenders beating NSH and TOR.  We've also looked like a lotto team losing to PIT.  Our range is massive.  I don't know what we are.

[MAC331]

45 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Right now we've looked like Cup contenders beating NSH and TOR.  We've also looked like a lotto team losing to PIT.  Our range is massive.  I don't know what we are.

Typical October wouldn't you say ?

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

But we would need to be freed of Backlund's cap hit to sign Bobrovsky long term...

 

...I dont know, I want to stay put to see where we are at at TDL.  If we don't look like a Cup contender then I would be sellers.  We can target Bob as UFA in the summer.  

 

No they wouldn't. 

 

Assuming Tkachuk at 7 mill cap hit and Bobrovsky at 8 million and a cap rise to 82 million for next year looks like this.

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal

Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik

Jankowski - Lindholm - Czarnik

Dube - Ryan - ??

 

Gio - Brodie

Hanifin - Hamonic

Anderson - Valamki 

Stone

 

19 players and it's 60k over the 82 million cap and still includes both Stone and Frolik, Brodie, Backlund etc etc etc They'd have options. 

 

for the records though I have basically next to zero interest in giving Bobrovsky 8 million as i've outlined before. But the option exist to do it and keep Backlund. I also understand the roster does not include Bennett but I think there is a good chance that's who your giving up for Bobrovsky. 

 

 

[The_People1]

51 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No they wouldn't. 

 

Assuming Tkachuk at 7 mill cap hit and Bobrovsky at 8 million and a cap rise to 82 million for next year looks like this.

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal

Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik

Jankowski - Lindholm - Czarnik

Dube - Ryan - ??

 

Gio - Brodie

Hanifin - Hamonic

Anderson - Valamki 

Stone

 

19 players and it's 60k over the 82 million cap and still includes both Stone and Frolik, Brodie, Backlund etc etc etc They'd have options. 

 

for the records though I have basically next to zero interest in giving Bobrovsky 8 million as i've outlined before. But the option exist to do it and keep Backlund. I also understand the roster does not include Bennett but I think there is a good chance that's who your giving up for Bobrovsky. 

 

Oh I much rather get rid of Stone and Frolik before Backlund... But those don't get Bobrovsky.  Backlund could.  I'm not even sure if Bennett would be enough.

 

I think Bob's trade value is close to Erik Karlsson's.  

[cross16]

26 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oh I much rather get rid of Stone and Frolik before Backlund... But those don't get Bobrovsky.  Backlund could.  I'm not even sure if Bennett would be enough.

 

I think Bob's trade value is close to Erik Karlsson's.  

 

Ya i'm just not there, not even close. Goalies don't tend to generate massive returns in trade even if they are under contract, let alone when they are pending UFA.

[conundrumed]

I'm not even at the point of worrying about our goaltending.

This begins with whispers and assertions treated as facts. The assertions Smith isn't good enough and Rittich isn't capable.

Then the sanctimoniously over-opinionated get others thinking in the same way and the whispers grow louder and they run with it as factual.

A bad game is goalie's fault, a good game becomes how well the team played.

It's inventing problems.

At least give the goalies we have a fighting chance, rather than getting overcome by your own doubts, that are really without merit and turn into day-to-day feeding frenzies.

We've invented this huge goaltending issue in camp.

It doesn't mean we have one, just some people are worried about it.

It doesn't make it a fact nor a bone of contention.

Some below average goalies have won cups, regardless.

 

[The_People1]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm not even at the point of worrying about our goaltending.

This begins with whispers and assertions treated as facts. The assertions Smith isn't good enough and Rittich isn't capable.

Then the sanctimoniously over-opinionated get others thinking in the same way and the whispers grow louder and they run with it as factual.

A bad game is goalie's fault, a good game becomes how well the team played.

It's inventing problems.

At least give the goalies we have a fighting chance, rather than getting overcome by your own doubts, that are really without merit and turn into day-to-day feeding frenzies.

We've invented this huge goaltending issue in camp.

It doesn't mean we have one, just some people are worried about it.

It doesn't make it a fact nor a bone of contention.

Some below average goalies have won cups, regardless.

 

 

We gave it one season and a month.  How long do you need?

[sak22]

50 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm not even at the point of worrying about our goaltending.

This begins with whispers and assertions treated as facts. The assertions Smith isn't good enough and Rittich isn't capable.

Then the sanctimoniously over-opinionated get others thinking in the same way and the whispers grow louder and they run with it as factual.

A bad game is goalie's fault, a good game becomes how well the team played.

It's inventing problems.

At least give the goalies we have a fighting chance, rather than getting overcome by your own doubts, that are really without merit and turn into day-to-day feeding frenzies.

We've invented this huge goaltending issue in camp.

It doesn't mean we have one, just some people are worried about it.

It doesn't make it a fact nor a bone of contention.

Some below average goalies have won cups, regardless.

 

And many deemed elite (Bobrovsky, Price, Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, Rask as a starter) have not won cups.

[conundrumed]

41 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We gave it one season and a month.  How long do you need?

More than one season and a month evidently.

This chatter started in preseason and has grown to become a fact, evidently.

I'm not buying it.

Everyone has an opinion. Some just purvey it stronger than others and their opinion becomes popular.

Doesn't make it right.

Me and follow the leader haven't talked much, in decades.

I love watching the antics, though.

There's even professional buffoons in radio and TV, still.

[conundrumed]

Is it just me, or does Rittich have absorbing pucks with no rebound down to an art?

How about the quick legs saves?

I've been going on about him since his 1st year playoffs in Stockton.

Find consistency. he is a mechanic in net. Everything you want in a goalie for fundamentals background.

He continues to impress the Satoshi Nakamoto out of me.

Maybe we're bringing him along right.

 

*edit*

oh right, and the stickcheck. lol

THAT'S a goalie!

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Typical October wouldn't you say ?

 

I’d say yes in general, but. BUT. No, I’d typical play year round for our team.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

There's even professional buffoons in radio and TV, still.

 

Yet, you drink every drop of koolaid served up by MSNPC.

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yet, you drink every drop of koolaid served up by MSNPC.

Or think for myself, one or the other.

Got any more angles for me?

Or should I just  be a follower?

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Or think for myself, one or the other.

Got any more angles for me?

Or should I just  be a follower?

 

No, but by your logic, we should just do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. 

 

A full season of Smith produced one of the worst SV% and GAA in the league and now add a full off season of training and rest, only for the first month to be producing the same results. 

 

Rittich, yes has proven over the course of a year that he's a capable backup.  But let's look for a true starter.

[Going4TheCup]

Trade Brodie, Backlund or Bennett for a starting goaltender 

[tmac70]

 I will agree our tending is not world class, however the play in front has not been as well. When the team is defending well our goalies have not cost us a game, point in question Nashville, Boston, Toronto and Buffalo games. They were asked to make a key save once or twice out side of that we defended well allowing 3 goals against in 4 games. IMHO goal tending has been solid when the team plays well, our weakest link is or PP. Find a solution to that and play the way we have, we bury teams very quick n a game

 

[cross16]

19 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

Some below average goalies have won cups, regardless.

 

 

Other than Niemi, who played behind a stacked Blackhawks team, is this really a fair statement? I'm not sure I would agree with this statement. Many point to Chris Osgood, but then also don't realize that Chris Osgood has more career wins than Dominik Hasek. I'd be wiling to concede that avg to good goalies, non elite, have won cups because they were able to raise their game to a borderline elite level. I think of names like Cam Ward or Holtby, guys you may not considered anything but solid goalies but I think they key thing is they played like very good to elite goalies in order to help those teams win cups. 

 

Do the Flames have that goalie right now? i'm not sure and I think its fair to question. Personally i'm not sure if Smith has that level anymore and with Rittich it's still early but I question it too. That being said I only think it's a situation worth monitoring and I don't think the Flames are in "we must acquire a starter" mode right now.