Goaltending

[Heartbreaker]

Not sure why people get so worked up over some else's point of view? If you don't like their opinions then just don't reply. Simple. No need to get argumentative in a bad way.

 

 

It's just what we do

 

I have nothing but contempt for any of you people! 

 

Love. 

[kehatch]

It's Francis, but he sums up the benefits of Fleury nicely here: http://m.calgarysun.com/2016/06/15/eric-francis-calgary-flames-goaltending-answer-is-evident--marc-andre-fleury

[irock19]

It's Francis, but he sums up the benefits of Fleury nicely here: http://m.calgarysun.com/2016/06/15/eric-francis-calgary-flames-goaltending-answer-is-evident--marc-andre-fleury

If Rutherford is reluctant to hand the keys to Murray? He handled the most pressured situation on the planet. Fleury is gone. Hopefully he agrees to come to Calgary. Fleury has always been a little shaky but I'd do the deal in a second.

[MAC331]

It's Francis, but he sums up the benefits of Fleury nicely here: http://m.calgarysun.com/2016/06/15/eric-francis-calgary-flames-goaltending-answer-is-evident--marc-andre-fleury

I noticed the coolness between Fleury and Murray during the celebration, no handshake or hugs.

[phoenix66]

If Rutherford is reluctant to hand the keys to Murray? He handled the most pressured situation on the planet. Fleury is gone. Hopefully he agrees to come to Calgary. Fleury has always been a little shaky but I'd do the deal in a second.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest he will, but for every Roy, Kipper or other goalies that take over the job based on playoffs, there is Steve Penny, Leighton, etc who flop right after. So I get why there might be some decisions to be made. Again, nothing to suggest he will, hes been great at every level.

Interesting view from "the other side". It's a Pittsburgh blogger, so take it for what it is..but its interesting to read how a penguins fan views trading fleury..and the penguins fans comments on the article as to his value. This guy admits on one hand calgary is likely the only legitimate trade option, but seems to think Frolik is the correct return..comments seem to think our 6 OA is the value..others think murray should be traded.

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Trading Marc-Andre Fleury http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Trading-Marc-Andre-Fleury/177/77570

[robrob1974]

Could we do Raymond or Colborne and a 2nd for Fleury?

The pens don't have a pick in the first two rounds. One of those guys save the Pens around 3m in cap space and they get a 2nd. Do we need to throw in a Worherspoon?

Colborne can play any position. He could be the next to play with Crosby as he has size and possibly gets how to play in the NHL now. Going to the net = goal.

[MAC331]

There is absolutely nothing to suggest he will, but for every Roy, Kipper or other goalies that take over the job based on playoffs, there is Steve Penny, Leighton, etc who flop right after. So I get why there might be some decisions to be made. Again, nothing to suggest he will, hes been great at every level.

Interesting view from "the other side". It's a Pittsburgh blogger, so take it for what it is..but its interesting to read how a penguins fan views trading fleury..and the penguins fans comments on the article as to his value. This guy admits on one hand calgary is likely the only legitimate trade option, but seems to think Frolik is the correct return..comments seem to think our 6 OA is the value..others think murray should be traded.

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Trading Marc-Andre Fleury http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Trading-Marc-Andre-Fleury/177/77570

Those transactions are all over the map. My thoughts are as long as they have those 3 forwards making big bucks other salaries have to be kept low. Murray may give them that option for a few years making Fleury expendable, further pushed by the expansion noise. Rutherford won't want to look like a fool so I expect he will drive a hard bargin. I don't think they will want Frolik and his contract really. I foresee a package of Agostino, our #35 and maybe a 3rd round pick doing the trick.

[robrob1974]

I am now open to anyone who makes us better. A Goalie makes the team comfortable, possible to make some mistakes without being afraid to. Then players tend to make less mistakes when they're not afraid to.

[Flyerfan52]

It's Francis, but he sums up the benefits of Fleury nicely here: http://m.calgarysun.com/2016/06/15/eric-francis-calgary-flames-goaltending-answer-is-evident--marc-andre-fleury

He's way high on what the Flames should give up with so few teams looking for a goalie. Same on cost of re-signing Bishop. The market  sets the price.

[tmac70]

We need a goalie and Pens need the cap space.  If Fleury includes us in his destination choice and not Carolina it plays in our favour. Simply put if he wants to come I offer a Jooris and a 3rd Rutherford can thank us later.

[robrob1974]

Yesterday, Ray Ferraro thought the flames give up a roster player/prospect and our 2nd for Fleury.

He said a high pick but then meant that we use the 2nd.

Would any of us give up the 2nds that are not ours?

He was saying that those picks become high currency when they have 0 in the first two rounds.

[LouCifer]

I've seen/heard a common trade scenario involving one of our 2nd round picks + either a prospect/Wideman for Fleury.

 

Given Pitt's cap space (lack thereof) Wideman might not be a fit going the other way. He'd only save them $500,000 for this season.

 

I'd propose replacing Wideman with Smid in that trade scenario. If Smid doesn't play, he goes on LTIR and his cap hit doesn't count at all for the Pens.

 

Also, Carolina re-signed Cam Ward for 2 years @ $3.3 per year ... so, we're sitting pretty I think. We should probably look elsewhere to unload Wideman.

[MAC331]

We need a goalie and Pens need the cap space.  If Fleury includes us in his destination choice and not Carolina it plays in our favour. Simply put if he wants to come I offer a Jooris and a 3rd Rutherford can thank us later.

Carolina has their own set of problems with money so Fleury will be limited but we shouldn't take that for granted.

[Carty]

Cam Ward just signed a two year extension at a 3.3 mil cap hit, both years have a 15 team NTC...   That's a big pay cut from 6.8 mil...

[robrob1974]

Cam Ward just signed a two year extension at a 3.3 mil cap hit, both years have a 15 team NTC... That's a big pay cut from 6.8 mil...

But that sounds like he is a player who understands his value. Honestly, it probably could be his last contract and with his injuries that's Guarenteed cash for two more years and almost a back-up salary.

[JTech780]

Pittsburgh has pretty much all the same guys that won this Cup signed and under the cap for next season with the exception of Lovejoy, Schultz and Cullen, all of whom can be replaced with younger cheaper players. I know that it says they are over the cap but that isn't taking into consideration that Dupuis being on LTIR lets them go over the cap by $3.75 mill. 

 

So I don't think their cap situation is as dire as it is made out to be, would they like to move some money, I am sure they would, but they aren't going to give players away just to get some space when they really don't need too.

[LouCifer]

Pittsburgh has pretty much all the same guys that won this Cup signed and under the cap for next season with the exception of Lovejoy, Schultz and Cullen, all of whom can be replaced with younger cheaper players. I know that it says they are over the cap but that isn't taking into consideration that Dupuis being on LTIR lets them go over the cap by $3.75 mill. 

 

So I don't think their cap situation is as dire as it is made out to be, would they like to move some money, I am sure they would, but they aren't going to give players away just to get some space when they really don't need too.

 

You're correct regarding cap space JTech, but they'll be looking to move MAF because of expansion (MAF has a NMC which would leave Murray unprotected).

[cross16]

You're correct regarding cap space JTech, but they'll be looking to move MAF because of expansion (MAF has a NMC which would leave Murray unprotected).

That and does fleury want to be in Pittsburgh? Is he prepared to tandem with someone when he could start elsewhere?

However I do agree with Jtechs point is that some think fleury is going to be giving away and I don't agree. Yes there are reasons to trade fleury but there is also the option they keep him and deal him at the deadline or prior to the expansion draft. I do think Pittsburgh trades fleury that is a given but "when" they trade him and for how much is the question. I think you have to offer up enough to get Pittsburgh to move him now as opposed to having them wait. If people are thinking that's a 3rd rounder, then no doubt in my mind they'll keep him and trade him next season because I think they get at least that if not more and they also get a chance to make sure Murray is for real. It's a bit more risky but it's a worthwhile risk.

I think he gets dealt and I actually think the odds of him being a flame are pretty high but I'm betting the price is going to be at least a 2nd and maybe a small add on.

[LouCifer]

That and does fleury want to be in Pittsburgh? Is he prepared to tandem with someone when he could start elsewhere?

However I do agree with Jtechs point is that some think fleury is going to be giving away and I don't agree. Yes there are reasons to trade fleury but there is also the option they keep him and deal him at the deadline or prior to the expansion draft. I do think Pittsburgh trades fleury that is a given but "when" they trade him and for how much is the question. I think you have to offer up enough to get Pittsburgh to move him now as opposed to having them wait. If people are thinking that's a 3rd rounder, then no doubt in my mind they'll keep him and trade him next season because I think they get at least that if not more and they also get a chance to make sure Murray is for real. It's a bit more risky but it's a worthwhile risk.

I think he gets dealt and I actually think the odds of him being a flame are pretty high but I'm betting the price is going to be at least a 2nd and maybe a small add on.

 

I'd say it's a much bigger risk to hold on to Fleury until the deadline, than to deal him now while there's more opportunity. You're counting on a team's starter getting hurt for a trade to happen at that point of the season. Once the few teams looking for a goalie this summer have resolved the position, who's looking for a $5.75 million dollar starter at the deadline with term? And if Fleury isn't traded by the TDL this upcoming season, his NMC automatically makes him get a protected spot - leaving Murray unprotected for expansion. Furthermore, I don't think Fleury wants to go into this season knowing that he's a trade candidate all year.

 

I do agree with you on the trade value. I think it'll be a 2nd + something, but I think it has to happen this offseason.

[JTech780]

I'd say it's a much bigger risk to hold on to Fleury until the deadline, than to deal him now while there's more opportunity. You're counting on a team's starter getting hurt for a trade to happen at that point of the season. Once the few teams looking for a goalie this summer have resolved the position, who's looking for a $5.75 million dollar starter at the deadline with term? And if Fleury isn't traded by the TDL this upcoming season, his NMC automatically makes him get a protected spot - leaving Murray unprotected for expansion. Furthermore, I don't think Fleury wants to go into this season knowing that he's a trade candidate all year.

I do agree with you on the trade value. I think it'll be a 2nd + something, but I think it has to happen this offseason.

I think that want it to happen this year but I don't think they will take less than fair value just to move him this year. They have up till the expansion draft to move him.

[travel_dude]

Two problems with holding onto MAF.

 

1) Too much tied up in cap space you intend on trading anyway

 

2) Risk.  He could be injured during the season and not be available at TDL due to LTIR (really just teams not wanting a injured goalie).

Or, teams could simply not need a goalie at TDL.  Then they are stuck.  They are likely to get less value at TDL, because the number of teams wanting a goalie is less than now.

 

Pittburg may not like the Flames offer, but I think there are a few balls in play.  A couple of targets that could get the same or slightly higher offer.  Who blinks first?  The Pengies are not exactly in the driver's seat.

[JTech780]

Two problems with holding onto MAF.

1) Too much tied up in cap space you intend on trading anyway

2) Risk. He could be injured during the season and not be available at TDL due to LTIR (really just teams not wanting a injured goalie).

Or, teams could simply not need a goalie at TDL. Then they are stuck. They are likely to get less value at TDL, because the number of teams wanting a goalie is less than now.

Pittburg may not like the Flames offer, but I think there are a few balls in play. A couple of targets that could get the same or slightly higher offer. Who blinks first? The Pengies are not exactly in the driver's seat.

What if Murray gets injured or doesn't play up to the standard he set in the playoffs, which is very conceivable as he doesn't have much a track record. Is Pittsburgh ready to everything on the shoulders of a 22 year old goalie? They might be more likely to think this way if they aren't getting the offers they feel as fair.

They don't have to move him which puts them in the drivers seat.

[redfire11]

Murray has 34 games total in the NHL.

Everyone give your head a shake if you think Lemieux is going to trade their #1 goal tender in Fleury. Murray played GOOD behind a VERY GOOD team and for that he is now the bona-fide starter?? How many play-off hero's did we have last year that never carried it over to this season.?

Lemieux is going for another cup while he can hold this team together, no way he will risk not having a #1 goaltender plus he has Murray on the cheap for another year.

He will be exposed  to the expansion draft as no one has really mentioned offering anything substantial for him anyways.

[phoenix66]

Cam Ward just signed a two year extension at a 3.3 mil cap hit, both years have a 15 team NTC...   That's a big pay cut from 6.8 mil...

This throws a major curveball into the goalie market. I fully expected Ward to hit the market and finish up as somebody's backup somwhere.

This should out a huge smile on BTs face.and make Reimer cry just a little

Anderson will likely make Fleury $ next year..Reimer is looking for that but likely wont get it. At some point, both the Ducks and Penguins pretty much HAVE to move a goaltender.

Question now is, whos left looking for one who can pay 5-6 mill??

Calgary

Toronto..and there is big talk of them signing Reimer back

Nyi? Maybe.. but They have to decide on Greiss first

Buffalo only pays Lehner $2.2 for one more year, so they could be argued..

But basically the price for Anderson and Fleury just came way down thanks to Carolina, and the biggest loser because of it I think is Reimer.

Really only the penguins have any real leverage, as they have no cap issues and could wait on trading him.

As much as I have been saying all along no way we can get Anderson, our odds just went way up so long as Toronto doesnt show much interest in him

[travel_dude]

What if Murray gets injured or doesn't play up to the standard he set in the playoffs, which is very conceivable as he doesn't have much a track record. Is Pittsburgh ready to everything on the shoulders of a 22 year old goalie? They might be more likely to think this way if they aren't getting the offers they feel as fair.

They don't have to move him which puts them in the drivers seat.

 

Sure, they don't have to do anything.  They can take the chance with MAF, giving him the starter reins again and not trade him.  They can sit with $73m in existing cap hit for 13F, 6D and 2G, and hope that they can be compliant by day 1 of the season.  They can let Lovejoy and Jultz walk.  They can buy out Kunitz and save $2.3m or some other move.

 

Neither Toronto nor Calgary have to deal with them.  If either teams signs or trades for a different goalie, then the Pengies can keep him through the expansion.  I'm sure that they would prefer to improve the team.