Goaltending

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Really on Kipper?  I actually felt Toskala was the real deal at the time.  I felt a second rounder for Kipper was too much.  He was super inconsistent with SJ, one day Vezina material and the next he would be pulled.

 

But Gillies plays on his knees too much and doesn't challenge the shooters.  I don't have high hopes for him anymore.

 

Yup! But remember I said I only saw him a few times when he played for the sharks. I don’t feel like Price looked too far off either when I saw him. 

 

Like, so many felt Ortio had it, but no way! It’s just something, even though you get lit up, how close do they keep to their structure and is their athleticism enough to make up for it. 

 

I mean rhe Leafs thought Raycroft was IT! But it was actually Rask. 

The Preds got Rinne on his goalie coach’s suggestion. No one else knew about him...

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Really on Kipper?  I actually felt Toskala was the real deal at the time.  I felt a second rounder for Kipper was too much.  He was super inconsistent with SJ, one day Vezina material and the next he would be pulled.

 

But Gillies plays on his knees too much and doesn't challenge the shooters.  I don't have high hopes for him anymore.

Fact is none of us are experts and these young men didn't get this far by accident. Most are fundamentally sound or should be with a few tweaks to have them perform even better. Do they have what it takes to be an NHL goalie ? the only way to find out is a long enough trial period to make that call.

[cross16]

Relevant to the discussion a while back about late round goalies.

 

Samuel Ersson is a name that isn't showing up on these lists and I wonder why. Limited tape i've found he looks really good and has been getting progressively better in the Swedish junior leagues and was just selected to summer camp for the World Junior club. He'd be someone I would be interested in too. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/potential-late-round-gems---goaltenders/c-299119474

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Fact is none of us are experts and these young men didn't get this far by accident. Most are fundamentally sound or should be with a few tweaks to have them perform even better. Do they have what it takes to be an NHL goalie ? the only way to find out is a long enough trial period to make that call.

 

You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket, I guess.

[conundrumed]

56 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Relevant to the discussion a while back about late round goalies.

 

Samuel Ersson is a name that isn't showing up on these lists and I wonder why. Limited tape i've found he looks really good and has been getting progressively better in the Swedish junior leagues and was just selected to summer camp for the World Junior club. He'd be someone I would be interested in too. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/potential-late-round-gems---goaltenders/c-299119474

Hello Mr. Loob!!

[MAC331]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket, I guess.

Not sure of the analogy but many come up empty for years hoping for a lottery win rather than staying on a steady course. I think we have that now and like I said, everyone here wants to keep cracking lottery tickets. Go to the Legion.

[conundrumed]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

But Gillies plays on his knees too much and doesn't challenge the shooters.  I don't have high hopes for him anymore.

This annoys me big time with big goalies. It's a bad habit that becomes a reliance.

Why have goalie coaches? I don't blame the goalie so much as his coaches.

You see what he's doing coaches, you have 20 drills to help him out of it. You have Go-Pros, you have video rooms. He's obviously worried he has too many holes down low when he's standing. "Mony, stand where you always score from. Go top cheese on everything". You're worried about low, how do you like all these pucks whizzing around your ears now?

It's fixable, but it takes work and Gillies' input.

What's it been, 3 years now?

Do we have any goalie coaches?

[The_People1]

49 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

This annoys me big time with big goalies. It's a bad habit that becomes a reliance.

Why have goalie coaches? I don't blame the goalie so much as his coaches.

You see what he's doing coaches, you have 20 drills to help him out of it. You have Go-Pros, you have video rooms. He's obviously worried he has too many holes down low when he's standing. "Mony, stand where you always score from. Go top cheese on everything". You're worried about low, how do you like all these pucks whizzing around your ears now?

It's fixable, but it takes work and Gillies' input.

What's it been, 3 years now?

Do we have any goalie coaches?

 

Ya also, Rittich was pretty solid early on.  Then once our goalie coach got a hold of him.... 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya also, Rittich was pretty solid early on.  Then once our goalie coach got a hold of him.... 

 

Rittich changed the way he was handling the puck.  He would just drop it and skate back to the net.  Then he decided to start playing it.

Then he was miscommunicating with the D or being out of position and being scored on.

Coach or Smith?

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Rittich changed the way he was handling the puck.  He would just drop it and skate back to the net.  Then he decided to start playing it.

Then he was miscommunicating with the D or being out of position and being scored on.

Coach or Smith?

 

Ya I never played goal on ice before and I wouldn't know what's what for goaltending and goalie coaching but man, if it's not working, fix it.  We need to try something new.

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Rittich changed the way he was handling the puck.  He would just drop it and skate back to the net.  Then he decided to start playing it.

Then he was miscommunicating with the D or being out of position and being scored on.

Coach or Smith?

How about nerves

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

How about nerves

 

Nerves of steel Rittich?  Mr Calm?

Never looked rattled until he started handling the puck more. 

The D were used to him just leaving the puck. 

 

 

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nerves of steel Rittich?  Mr Calm?

Never looked rattled until he started handling the puck more. 

The D were used to him just leaving the puck. 

 

 

I suspect goalie coach , trying to make it smoother for the D when playing with him as opposed to Smith..   mistake, let him do what he does well

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nerves of steel Rittich?  Mr Calm?

Never looked rattled until he started handling the puck more. 

The D were used to him just leaving the puck. 

 

 

So he shouldn't try to handle the puck is that what you are saying ?

[DirtyDeeds]

Another round of goaltender pads is about to happen. (shoulder area I think).  They are testing now.

 

I think that the last change implemented separated a bunch of goalies who had trouble adjusting so this should just add a few more to the "can't play without huge pads" list.

[conundrumed]

I'm 30 years from being a goalie, coached.

In the 70's-mainly 80's, here's how it worked.

Please please please don't be a 60 yr old with a buzzcut.

It almost always was.

Butterfly was all the rage so do 30 in 30 seconds. Up down up down. No? Dry land training, get out of my face.

I recall, blocker work. Shot was a little closer to my body, so I reached across and grabbed it. My catcher went to the corner and I spent the whole time with my bare hand behind my back. I was 14.

Where do I apply?

 

Edit

Mind you those musty old military pricks made me a goalie. I played everything and was athletic as all get out.

Nobody could tell me anything. Goalie coaches, on the other hand...THAT was work. You work for your "atta boy".

Trust me on that one. It rarely comes around, if ever.

But we run with, "goalies are a different breed". Sure.

[JTech780]

The more I think about it, I want to see Gillies get the backup role and see if he can run with it. I also want Parsons to get the bulk of the starts in Stockton, with Mason MacDonald as his backup. Parsons needs to take the next step if we want him to be ready for the NHL level in the next few years. With MacDonald this is his last year on his current contract, let's move him up to the AHL and see if he can run with it a bit. Schneider would slide into the start role in KC. 

 

That leaves Rittich as the odd man out. Rittich is a solid backup option, but that's all he will ever be IMO.

 

I think we need to see start thinking about who will take over for Smith after this year.

[cccsberg]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The more I think about it, I want to see Gillies get the backup role and see if he can run with it. I also want Parsons to get the bulk of the starts in Stockton, with Mason MacDonald as his backup. Parsons needs to take the next step if we want him to be ready for the NHL level in the next few years. With MacDonald this is his last year on his current contract, let's move him up to the AHL and see if he can run with it a bit. Schneider would slide into the start role in KC. 

 

That leaves Rittich as the odd man out. Rittich is a solid backup option, but that's all he will ever be IMO.

 

I think we need to see start thinking about who will take over for Smith after this year.

Good plan.  As an emergency backup plan I might be willing to sign someone like Mason for cheap and 2 years and ship him to the minors before waivers to back up and work with Parsons there, and put both McDonald and Schneider in KC.  That might not be too attractive to Mason but its about what he did last year and if there are injuries or the prospects falter he could get another shot.  And of course, in 2019 there may also be an NHL spot available depending on what happens this year.   Even if things work great Smith isn't getting any younger and if Gillies does well and gets elevated having a vet alongside is probably not a bad idea.  It would also mean you can trade Rittich, along with Stone......for some picks.

[kehatch]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The more I think about it, I want to see Gillies get the backup role and see if he can run with it. I also want Parsons to get the bulk of the starts in Stockton, with Mason MacDonald as his backup. Parsons needs to take the next step if we want him to be ready for the NHL level in the next few years. With MacDonald this is his last year on his current contract, let's move him up to the AHL and see if he can run with it a bit. Schneider would slide into the start role in KC. 

 

That leaves Rittich as the odd man out. Rittich is a solid backup option, but that's all he will ever be IMO.

 

I think we need to see start thinking about who will take over for Smith after this year.

 

I agree we need to think about beyond this season. But it's a gamble to think it's Gilles. Smith is pretty much guaranteed an injury and I don't want Gilles / Parsons being my only option when it happens. I also don't want Gilles sitting back up 3 out of 4 games.

 

Ideally I would like to acquire a young goalie with proven starts to backup Smith. Gilles still has room to develop in Stockton and would get some NHL starts when Smith gets hurt. It gives us two chances to find a starter. 

 

That said, I don't know who that might be. Chances are we see Rittich take on that role. Unfortunately I agree with you that he doesn't have starter potential. 

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I agree we need to think about beyond this season. But it's a gamble to think it's Gilles. Smith is pretty much guaranteed an injury and I don't want Gilles / Parsons being my only option when it happens. I also don't want Gilles sitting back up 3 out of 4 games.

 

Ideally I would like to acquire a young goalie with proven starts to backup Smith. Gilles still has room to develop in Stockton and would get some NHL starts when Smith gets hurt. It gives us two chances to find a starter. 

 

That said, I don't know who that might be. Chances are we see Rittich take on that role. Unfortunately I agree with you that he doesn't have starter potential. 

 

There just isn't anyone out there that fits the description of a backup turning starter.  That is available that is.

Gillies could become that in a few years.  So could Parsons.

A little risky to give either that role right now.

 

Not much available in FA.

[manu11]

I still think we missed the boat big time on Raanta, to at least get 5 years or more before we'd have to worry about a rookie goalie turn starter. Now we have what 1 maybe 2 years of Smith and no one looks ready to take over ATM.  Was Rittich really that bad last season, personally I think he played as good or bad as many other hopefuls in the league.

Mrazek, who some wanted here was 90.2%, the highly regarded Korpisalo had a sub 90% season, even a guy I thought could be target for Smith's succession Tristan Jarry had only a 90.8% with PIT.

Someone mentioned Pickard, the guy was just the Nr.4 in Toronto after Anderson, McEllhinney and Sparks.

Even some younger starters had not great seasons: Allen 90.6, Talbot and Lehner both 90.8%, Matt Murray 90.6%

 

The only backup under 25 who had a really good season is Juse Saaros and I think he is not going anywhere.

 

 

 

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, manu11 said:

I still think we missed the boat big time on Raanta,

 

 

I would have been all over Raanta if he got to UFA but it's hard to say the Flames missed the boat. Raanta cost the Coyotes a top 10 pick an a decent top 6 center. Flames could not have matched that trade. 

[manu11]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I would have been all over Raanta if he got to UFA but it's hard to say the Flames missed the boat. Raanta cost the Coyotes a top 10 pick an a decent top 6 center. Flames could not have matched that trade. 

 

Tough to say as it was a package deal, Raanta and Stepan for the pick and D'Angelo. So I wouldn't say Raanta had the value of a top 10pick, maybe it would have been for our mid 1st rounder. Not sure, if the Rangers preffered making 2 seperate deals over the one with the top10 pick, so that's anybody's guess.

I think back then the talk was mostly a 2nd and a B-prospect for Raanta from the guys here, I was probably one of the few who would've been fine with dealing a mid 1st for him.

 

[cross16]

1 minute ago, manu11 said:

 

Tough to say as it was a package deal, Raanta and Stepan for the pick and D'Angelo. So I wouldn't say Raanta had the value of a top 10pick, maybe it would have been for our mid 1st rounder. Not sure, if the Rangers preffered making 2 seperate deals over the one with the top10 pick, so that's anybody's guess.

I think back then the talk was mostly a 2nd and a B-prospect for Raanta from the guys here, I was probably one of the few who would've been fine with dealing a mid 1st for him.

 

 

Well D'Angelo carried pretty little trade value at the time given that was already his 2nd team who was willing to "give up" on him. Has done very little for the Rangers too. Part of this was likely that the Rangers wanted to move Stepans contract so that adjust he price.

 

Either way, hard deal for the Flames to match and certainly would have cost them Hamonic

[manu11]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Well D'Angelo carried pretty little trade value at the time given that was already his 2nd team who was willing to "give up" on him. Has done very little for the Rangers too. Part of this was likely that the Rangers wanted to move Stepans contract so that adjust he price.

 

Either way, hard deal for the Flames to match and certainly would have cost them Hamonic

You're probably right, if the Rangers preffered the package deal, we couldn't match that at that time. 

But if a deal would have been possible, I'd much rather have a starter then a second pairing D-man.

 

So back to the now, I think it's a good thing to have 2 young goalies battle it out for the job behind Smith. I think both know that they have to perform better then last year to have a future with the Flames.