Goaltending

[conundrumed]

54 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Sorry i didnt honestly know of his bad reputation just trying to help out

Don't apologize, no need.

Perhaps he's correct, I just prefer to hear from the team.

Tomorrow's another day.

[travel_dude]

I think everyone knew this was inevitable.  Except the coach and goalie coach.

Sure, we have to get to the playoffs, but it's not like Rittich hasn't been reliable.

He's done everything and more that you expect of a backup.

Gully said that Rittich was due to start in BOS.  Sure, Mack, sure.

He had more chances to start him, like during a losing streak.

Instead, Smith gets the start every game except the EDM game.

Gets the start in Vegas.  Heartbreaker.

Back to Smith against the Bolts.  Meltdown.  Left in for 6 goals.

Back to Smith the next game.

 

I agree with starting him after the Bolts game because you knew he was coming back to avenge it.

I don;t agree that playing him in 5/6 games (losses) was the smart move.

And I don't agree that you overplay your starter when your backup is playing that good.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

So good news, regarding Smith's injury. But we shouldn't rush him as tempting as it may be. Yes we are in a tight race and are gonna want our #1 back ASAP, but if we rush him back and the injury occurs that could be catastrophic.

 

I say give Rittich/Gillies the next 3 or 4 starts and go from there. I know Rittich is getting the next 2, but once again let's no rush Smith back

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

So good news, regarding Smith's injury. But we shouldn't rush him as tempting as it may be. Yes we are in a tight race and are gonna want our #1 back ASAP, but if we rush him back and the injury occurs that could be catastrophic.

 

I say give Rittich/Gillies the next 3 or 4 starts and go from there. I know Rittich is getting the next 2, but once again let's no rush Smith back

 

Smith is probably a week out at the earliest.

I would be going Rittich (BOS), Rittich (NASH), Gillies (FLA), Rittich (BOS).  

Then Rittich (VGK - B2B 1), Gillies (ARI - B2B 2).

 

My thinking is you need a big blocking goalie for FLA and ARI.  BOS and NASH need one that can move a lot.

[Carty]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

So good news, regarding Smith's injury

 

Indeed...   Gully's update on Smith presser...   https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/pre-game-gulutzan-130218/t-277781462/c-57681603

[Carty]

News like this makes me even more thankful that with Smith out, the Flames have Rittich and not Lack to rely on...

 

       

[The_People1]

Despite the win, I thought Gillies looked horrible in the Coyotes game.  His fundamentals are so bad.  The puck is not doing much along the side boards and he drops to his knees after a mild screen.  The puck is not even doing anything. And worse is he's frozen there watching the puck the rest of the time.

 

He generally likes to play goal from his knees and doesn't flow with the play.  Very Jonas Hiller like except Gillies doesn't come out to challenge shooters at all and stays static once set.  In comparison, Rittich would charge out to cut down angles which is what you want to see.  You want to see a goalie understand his D have the other guys covered and he can push out from the blue paint to cut down the shooters time and space.

 

His hockey sense and ability to anticipate, which is what separates the great goalies from the good, is so below average.

 

Gillies is still so unbelievably raw. He has the ideal size and butterflies very well but it's all looks and no substance.  He just doesn't get it.

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Despite the win, I thought Gillies looked horrible in the Coyotes game.  His fundamentals are so bad.  The puck is not doing much along the side boards and he drops to his knees after a mild screen.  The puck is not even doing anything. And worse is he's frozen there watching the puck the rest of the time.

 

He generally likes to play goal from his knees and doesn't flow with the play.  Very Jonas Hiller like except Gillies doesn't come out to challenge shooters at all and stays static once set.  In comparison, Rittich would charge out to cut down angles which is what you want to see.  You want to see a goalie understand his D have the other guys covered and he can push out from the blue paint to cut down the shooters time and space.

 

His hockey sense and ability to anticipate, which is what separates the great goalies from the good, is so below average.

 

Gillies is still so unbelievably raw. He has the ideal size and butterflies very well but it's all looks and no substance.  He just doesn't get it.

Gillies is like a lot of big goalies, they play from there knees too much. Bad bounce on the 1st goal, but he was sliding to his left and got caught over-committing to the shot. That's a no-no for a shot from that far out, it can hit 4 different things on it's way to you so you can't slide to the shot direction. You have be in a position to protect the entire net.

The only thing I see is that you can't lose where your net is when you're in the blue paint. Angle drills are drilled into goalies when they're young. If they aren't, you miss the biggest component of goaltending. There is a goalie that I think is fantastic that gets by without being great at it is Luongo. I used to laugh at the look on his face would be like, "how did I get here?" when he'd let in a wrister due to cutting the angle down but being 2 feet off the right angle.

Every goalie in the NHL should be able to skate backwards, without looking back, and land on a dime anywhere in the blue paint. If you're out of the blue paint, there are countless markers, blue line, red line, hash marks, faceoff dot, team door. You skate those lines backwards, no look, constantly in practice, land at the left post, right post, mid-net, top of the crease. That is Bantam hockey, most important part of goalie, you can look past the puck between markers and know exactly where the net is behind you. It becomes 2nd nature. You also practice with parked pucks, "it's here, where are you"? I see net right there, as the puck whistles past you and in.

I spent 2 years on team and summer camp when I decided to trade in my stick for a goalie stick on these drills.

Not sure why Gillies doesn't seem to have that vs Rittich being great at it. Rittich is not this ethereal athletic specimen, his fundies make him a stalwart goalie, though.

I've been a bigger fan of Rittich vs Gillies for well over a year now for most of the reasons you've stated.

Rittich is pretty much an ideal backup, imho. You always know what you're going to get with him. He has a great foundation, as a goalie coach, I would just keep strengthening what he already knows, don't change a thing. He's a good counter-balance to Smith's near Hasek-like in scrambles. A science goalie vs a reactive goalie sounds like a perfect combo to me.

One total BTC. When the puck goes in and the goalie is sideways to his net, I go mental, lol. Were you hoping to butterfly the pass across your crease?

Yes Mr. Smith, I mean you.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Not sure why Gillies doesn't seem to have that vs Rittich being great at it. Rittich is not this ethereal athletic specimen, his fundies make him a stalwart goalie, though.

I've been a bigger fan of Rittich vs Gillies for well over a year now for most of the reasons you've stated.

 

Agreed.  Rittich anticipates well enough and flows with the play. He gets beat because the shots were just too good for his skill or his Dman didn't help with rebounds and that's forgivable because that's hockey.

 

Gillies though, he doesn't flow with the play.  Like he only cares where the puck currently is and there's no ability to read what's coming ahead of time.  You are so right he doesn't seem to know where he is on the ice. And/or there's evidence to suggest he only understands stopping the puck as a basic function of goaltending but doesn't understand his teammates responsibility in helping stop the puck as well, like for example, where is his Centerman when the puck is along the side boards for example.  This is evident because he just plays the shot without understanding space and time.  He doesn't understand his teammates have helped cut down space and time and he can come out to challenge.  He doesn't work with his D.  He has tunnel vision. 

[conundrumed]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Rittich anticipates well enough and flows with the play. He gets beat because the shots were just too good for his skill or his Dman didn't help with rebounds and that's forgivable because that's hockey.

 

Gillies though, he doesn't flow with the play.  Like he only cares where the puck currently is and there's no ability to read what's coming ahead of time.  You are so right he doesn't seem to know where he is on the ice. And/or there's evidence to suggest he only understands stopping the puck as a basic function of goaltending but doesn't understand his teammates responsibility in helping stop the puck as well, like for example, where is his Centerman when the puck is along the side boards for example.  This is evident because he just plays the shot without understanding space and time.  He doesn't understand his teammates have helped cut down space and time and he can come out to challenge.  He doesn't work with his D.  He has tunnel vision. 

Anticipating also gets goalies in trouble too though. You zone in on the puck carrier and the rest is peripheral vision to note a white shirt vs a red shirt.

Again, with Rittich, I think he's better than even Smith at this.

It's only 6' post to post, maybe 10 if you're at the top of the crease.

Rittich has made some huge saves coming across his crease.

There's only 6' there, know your laterals from post to post and know where to end your slide, he's good and fast at that.

I just don't see a downside with his mechanics.

JG goes short-side, constant.

There's a reason. If a goalie pulls off of the post early, that's what every sniper looks for, especially a new goalie.

I've counted 1 against Rittich and about 10 posts/crossbars. Perfect shot, not enough space.

Rittich has a ton of great qualities to me, he has an almost adroit foundation as a goalie. He does all of the science better than most, imho.

 

[JTech780]

Mike Smith was put on IR today, not a good sign, or it could just be because we needed the roster spot.

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

Mike Smith was put on IR today, not a good sign, or it could just be because we needed the roster spot.

The Sportwriters are all over this already that BT needs to spend big on getting an experienced Goalie in here. I say we stick with Rittich and Gilles as we will be better for it.

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

The Sportwriters are all over this already that BT needs to spend big on getting an experienced Goalie in here. I say we stick with Rittich and Gilles as we will be better for it.

 

Getting an experienced goalie won't cost much at all. What did Mrazek cost the Flyers? A 4th? We could probably get Lehner for something similar.

[robrob74]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Getting an experienced goalie won't cost much at all. What did Mrazek cost the Flyers? A 4th? We could probably get Lehner for something similar.

 

I am done with trading picks for a goalie, even if it is a 4th. We’ve spent way too much on goalies without it solidifying much of anything the past few years and frankly, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

 

I am getting tired of BT and GG. We are back to where we were when the rebuild started, only the players are younger...

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I am done with trading picks for a goalie, even if it is a 4th. We’ve spent way too much on goalies without it solidifying much of anything the past few years and frankly, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

 

I am getting tired of BT and GG. We are back to where we were when the rebuild started, only the players are younger...

 

Smith has proven to be well worth the cost of acquiring him, it's just unfortunate that he got injured. I am fine having a young goalie Rittich or Gillies play a lot down the stretch, but having both play might be a mistake, especially since getting a goalie with more experience wouldn't cost very much at all.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Mike Smith was put on IR today, not a good sign, or it could just be because we needed the roster spot.

 

Gives them roster options.  Not good, but not desperate.  Go with guys that are winning or go with a new guy that could wash out quickly due to the change in teams?

[DirtyDeeds]

Bringing in a goalie this time of year rarely works out. Just look at LA bringing in Bishop last season.

Smith is our #1.

While not ideal, we should probably use this time to find out what we have in the system.

[CheersMan]

12 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Bringing in a goalie this time of year rarely works out. Just look at LA bringing in Bishop last season.

Smith is our #1.

While not ideal, we should probably use this time to find out what we have in the system.

That's my feeling as well.  No new goalies please.

[Flyerfan52]

11 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Getting an experienced goalie won't cost much at all. What did Mrazek cost the Flyers? A 4th? We could probably get Lehner for something similar.

That was a very odd trade with so many conditions attached. That 4th could rise to a 2nd.

There was also a conditional 3rd based on the Flyers re-signing Mrazek.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see conditions like that attached by teams trading for other rentals soon. If the player produces the return goes up.

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

That was a very odd trade with so many conditions attached. That 4th could rise to a 2nd.

There was also a conditional 3rd based on the Flyers re-signing Mrazek.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see conditions like that attached by teams trading for other rentals soon. If the player produces the return goes up.

If I read that correctly, it could top out as a 2nd this year and 3rd next year.

I'm a big Wings fan.

This downturn isn't from losing Babcock, it's from losing Datsyuk.

Babcock just plays his exit strategy. He's a piece of work.

Regarding Mrazek, he was a lights out goalie in the A, and great on the Wings...until Datsyuk left.

I'm glad he gets around Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds et. al. now.

Hope he picks it up.

 

Detroit has some nice young pieces, but they've got some work to do.

I have to laugh at the talking heads really honed in on losing Babcock....No, full-tards, we lost Datsyuk.

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

If I read that correctly, it could top out as a 2nd this year and 3rd next year.

I'm a big Wings fan.

This downturn isn't from losing Babcock, it's from losing Datsyuk.

Babcock just plays his exit strategy. He's a piece of work.

Regarding Mrazek, he was a lights out goalie in the A, and great on the Wings...until Datsyuk left.

I'm glad he gets around Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds et. al. now.

Hope he picks it up.

 

Detroit has some nice young pieces, but they've got some work to do.

I have to laugh at the talking heads really honed in on losing Babcock....No, full-tards, we lost Datsyuk.

Exit strategy?  Toronto purchased him for $50 million.  If Detroit would have been even close he’d still be there.   Datsyuk had a great career, he turns 40 this summer, how long did you want to keep him for?

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Getting an experienced goalie won't cost much at all. What did Mrazek cost the Flyers? A 4th? We could probably get Lehner for something similar.

This is why you have developing guys. What kind of message are you sending with, "our goalie's hurt, we're in the market".

I think it's silly. Ride the farm like rented mules, it's why it's there.

Are you going to "ruin development" on Rittich and Gillies, or feed the hunger?

I'd guess the latter...

7 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Exit strategy?  Toronto purchased him for $50 million.  If Detroit would have been even close he’d still be there.   Datsyuk had a great career, he turns 40 this summer, how long did you want to keep him for?

Longer than Babcock...

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

This is why you have developing guys. What kind of message are you sending with, "our goalie's hurt, we're in the market".

I think it's silly. Ride the farm like rented mules, it's why it's there.

Are you going to "ruin development" on Rittich and Gillies, or feed the hunger?

I'd guess the latter...

Longer than Babcock...

Rittich and Gilles have been playing well for us, there is no need for outside help. People get to caught up in paper rosters.

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

This is why you have developing guys. What kind of message are you sending with, "our goalie's hurt, we're in the market".

I think it's silly. Ride the farm like rented mules, it's why it's there.

Are you going to "ruin development" on Rittich and Gillies, or feed the hunger?

I'd guess the latter...

Longer than Babcock...

 

It's nice that we are seeing the same type of goaltending from the farm guys in the NHL as we did last two seasons in the AHL.  One goes on a run and then the other comes in and goes on a run.  Gillies was the real starter in Stockton, but had Rittich posting better numbers in less starts.  Good that they are getting wins in the NHL.

 

No need to pick up a backup.  Run with what you have.  These guys are both showing NHL potential.  Gillies has had the easier starts, but Rittich only really had two bad games of all his starts.  And those weren't just on him.    

[JTech780]

I am really entertained by this for some reason.