redfire11 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 bishop off the table as he went to lak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 hours ago, conundrumed said: I haven't been against our goalies too much all year. It almost seems like the fix is in with the 2D additions and not having Wideman playing with his skate guards on 20 min/gm. Goalies have bad games, even the best ones. But I think a lot of it has been the team more than the Gs. Our G isn't a problem when the team shows up, imho. THIS! is what I say and why I defend the goalies. When the team shows up, the goalies play better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Elliott's played well last week or two but overal I don't think the flames goaltending has been Very good this year. That being said Elliott has been known in the past to get hot at the end of the season so now I advocate just letting him run with it. I'd rather stick with the devil we know than the devil we don't, sort to speak. Bringing both back next year isn't a regression but it's not an improvement either imo. I do think the flames need to upgrade at net just at the right cost. I'm also not keen on giving Elliot a multi year deal at anything more than 3-3.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, cross16 said: Elliott's played well last week or two but overal I don't think the flames goaltending has been Very good this year. That being said Elliott has been known in the past to get hot at the end of the season so now I advocate just letting him run with it. I'd rather stick with the devil we know than the devil we don't, sort to speak. Bringing both back next year isn't a regression but it's not an improvement either imo. I do think the flames need to upgrade at net just at the right cost. I'm also not keen on giving Elliot a multi year deal at anything more than 3-3.5 million. Unless Elliot backstops us to a deep playoff run I can't see him getting any more than $3.5M, i'm comfortable with that price. I can see CJ signing for no more than $2M, with a good chance we get a home town discount. Hopefully we can see Gillies, Parsons and Rittich push for a role in the near future. I still hope Gillies pans out but I do think the real gem is in Parsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, rickross said: Unless Elliot backstops us to a deep playoff run I can't see him getting any more than $3.5M, i'm comfortable with that price. I can see CJ signing for no more than $2M, with a good chance we get a home town discount. Hopefully we can see Gillies, Parsons and Rittich push for a role in the near future. I still hope Gillies pans out but I do think the real gem is in Parsons. I think we still need a stop gap for one of the youth to step up. We might need to find someone to come in for about 3 years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I think we still need a stop gap for one of the youth to step up. We might need to find someone to come in for about 3 years This will likely be the case, maybe we stumble upon some gem that turns out to be our next "Kipper" in the next few years. For now, our goalie situation could be much worse. Elliot has really played well recently but still not convinced he's our true #1. I think Bishop is a good goalie and he'll really steady the Kings net situation but I was always a bit worried with his injury history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 43 minutes ago, rickross said: This will likely be the case, maybe we stumble upon some gem that turns out to be our next "Kipper" in the next few years. For now, our goalie situation could be much worse. Elliot has really played well recently but still not convinced he's our true #1. I think Bishop is a good goalie and he'll really steady the Kings net situation but I was always a bit worried with his injury history. For me, the cost is the most important factor. Was Bishop going to cost us too much to acquire? And how much would he cost $$$? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 9 hours ago, robrob74 said: For me, the cost is the most important factor. Was Bishop going to cost us too much to acquire? And how much would he cost $$$? Well while the goalie cost wouldnt be too bad, I think cernak would have been like trading a hickey, and then a 7th rounder. Im assuming the 2017 conditional pick is for the playoffs, and whether bishop will play. If that conditional pick ends up being a 2nd, did we really want to pay a 2nd + hickey for bishop? I dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 10:05 PM, CheersMan said: Where would our season be without CJ? Where would we be without the 7-1-1 record from Elliott his past 9 games? One goalie on the upswing, while the other is having inconsistent success. CJ has looked good as a backup these days, so I think we are at least trending in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 18 hours ago, cross16 said: Elliott's played well last week or two but overal I don't think the flames goaltending has been Very good this year. That being said Elliott has been known in the past to get hot at the end of the season so now I advocate just letting him run with it. I'd rather stick with the devil we know than the devil we don't, sort to speak. Bringing both back next year isn't a regression but it's not an improvement either imo. I do think the flames need to upgrade at net just at the right cost. I'm also not keen on giving Elliot a multi year deal at anything more than 3-3.5 million. While I mainly agree, I have to go back to camp and preseason. Elliott was great at staying square and rebound control. Once we hit the reg season, too many of our players became an albatross. Suddenly, it was constant 2-1's, breakaways, guys alone in his kitchen. We got a lot worse, the chances were coming from everywhere. To compound the problem, we were laying way too much blame on Elliott and not our overall very poor play. We were generally losing games we had no right to win and it became almost an expectation that our goalies win all of those games. For me, it always begged the question, "when will our team bail our goalies out"? And the answer seemed like, "never". 2 seemingly minor D deals, and suddenly we are playing like world beaters. The FLA teams were 2 of the hottest in the league... I think that speaks volumes to the struggles we were having at D, but the goalies got the hairy eyeball the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, conundrumed said: While I mainly agree, I have to go back to camp and preseason. Elliott was great at staying square and rebound control. Once we hit the reg season, too many of our players became an albatross. Suddenly, it was constant 2-1's, breakaways, guys alone in his kitchen. We got a lot worse, the chances were coming from everywhere. To compound the problem, we were laying way too much blame on Elliott and not our overall very poor play. We were generally losing games we had no right to win and it became almost an expectation that our goalies win all of those games. For me, it always begged the question, "when will our team bail our goalies out"? And the answer seemed like, "never". 2 seemingly minor D deals, and suddenly we are playing like world beaters. The FLA teams were 2 of the hottest in the league... I think that speaks volumes to the struggles we were having at D, but the goalies got the hairy eyeball the whole time. I agree that for the first month and change things were awful around here no doubt, but after that things got much, much better and Elliott didn't. It's really only in the last week or so I think he's played well, and even then I would stop of saying great. So that is 60 ish games and You can't convince me that for 60 games this team was terrible defensively and there was just so many goals he was letting in that were not the result of defensive breakdowns, or were just flat out saves you need a goalie to make. Remember, Flames are in the top 10 in shots against, scoring chances against and high danger scoring chances against, so Elliott should wear alot of the struggles. I've said across the forum though I'm not putting blame on Elliott. I just think its proof he isn't a number one goalie that's all. Last year his first 8 starts were pretty terrible too and then he caught fire. 2 seasons ago, same thing, only ok at the start of the season but got much better as the season went on. I think if you need your team to play basically perfect D in front of you to bring the best in your out you are not a number one goalie. Could they ride with him next year, sure it's an option, but I don't think its Option A. I think you want a guy who can bail you out once in a while and I can think of 1 maybe 2 times that's happened all year with Elliott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 It was like watching any Kipper backup all over again. Every start, team doesn't show up. They have no confidence in you and you have no confidence in them. The team has rarely played consistently well all year. Get hot at the right time, all is forgiven! As an aside, when do you think we should play Wideman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 43 minutes ago, conundrumed said: It was like watching any Kipper backup all over again. Every start, team doesn't show up. They have no confidence in you and you have no confidence in them. The team has rarely played consistently well all year. Get hot at the right time, all is forgiven! As an aside, when do you think we should play Wideman? Toronto should play him right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 If the Flames make the playoffs then I resign bith Elliot and Johnson in the offseason... Elliot $3.5-$4.25 for 3 years Johnson $1.5-$2 for one year I'm very comfortable with this tandem and what Ive seen frim them this year. Big picture, this was a tram that came out flat to start the season and has taken allot of strides, learning how to win together and I belive keeping Chad and Brian in the fold will pay dividends in the near future. This team is on the cusp of turning the corner and will be scary good, just wait and see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, TrippinVdUb said: If the Flames make the playoffs then I resign bith Elliot and Johnson in the offseason... Elliot $3.5-$4.25 for 3 years Johnson $1.5-$2 for one year I'm very comfortable with this tandem and what Ive seen frim them this year. Big picture, this was a tram that came out flat to start the season and has taken allot of strides, learning how to win together and I belive keeping Chad and Brian in the fold will pay dividends in the near future. This team is on the cusp of turning the corner and will be scary good, just wait and see! I dont think we want to lock up elliot long term, but thats just my opinion. Elliot is not the answer in net, and locking him up at that price for 3 years is probably not the best idea. Has he been solid recently, yes he has but hes not a long term answer. Id be ok with bringing him or johnson back for another year but thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 27 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: I dont think we want to lock up elliot long term, but thats just my opinion. Elliot is not the answer in net, and locking him up at that price for 3 years is probably not the best idea. Has he been solid recently, yes he has but hes not a long term answer. Id be ok with bringing him or johnson back for another year but thats about it. We are approaching scary good, gotta go with vDub on that. Not too worried about LA, no stigma. "That 70's Line" runs up minuses pdq. Like they're about to, lol. Bishop? Excellent, bring him on. No stigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: I dont think we want to lock up elliot long term, but thats just my opinion. Elliot is not the answer in net, and locking him up at that price for 3 years is probably not the best idea. Has he been solid recently, yes he has but hes not a long term answer. Id be ok with bringing him or johnson back for another year but thats about it. No offense, but I completely disagree with that assessment, this team needed time to bring it together and get on the same page, now that the coaches, players and goalies have some familiarity the team looks to be turning a corner. Elliot left a good situation in St Louis that has been under the structure of a hall of fame coach for years and walked into a rebuilding team, playing a new style for a new coach. If Elliot and Johnson get us into the playoffs, I think they deserve the oppertunity to come back next season and show what they can do, infront of a team that should be a little more polished than they were at the start of this year. You cant just run goalies through a revolving door until one has a Veizna like season, these guys need time to learn how to win together, as a team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, TrippinVdUb said: No offense, but I completely disagree with that assessment, this team needed time to bring it together and get on the same page, now that the coaches, players and goalies have some familiarity the team looks to be turning a corner. Elliot left a good situation in St Louis that has been under the structure of a hall of fame coach for years and walked into a rebuilding team, playing a new style for a new coach. If Elliot and Johnson get us into the playoffs, I think they deserve the oppertunity to come back next season and show what they can do, infront of a team that should be a little more polished than they were at the start of this year. You cant just run goalies through a revolving door until one has a Veizna like season, these guys need time to learn how to win together, as a team. Hallelujah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 10 hours ago, conundrumed said: Hallelujah. I agree to a certain extent unless there is a good deal out there that you have assessed as an enhancement for your goal. This is a good tandem and we are now entering that turning point where the team is playing as a team and when Elliott usually is at his best. I would have to think BT will not rush into a decision on our goaltending and let's hope Elliott and Johnson gives him plenty to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I agree to a certain extent unless there is a good deal out there that you have assessed as an enhancement for your goal. This is a good tandem and we are now entering that turning point where the team is playing as a team and when Elliott usually is at his best. I would have to think BT will not rush into a decision on our goaltending and let's hope Elliott and Johnson gives him plenty to think about. Id be open to breaking up this tandem if you could pry a guy like Scott Darling out of Chicago. Someone who has proven they could carry a backup role and is chomping at the bit to take over the starter job. But I have zero interest in a MAF/BenB type that is already demanding salary and term. This team needs a competent 2-3 year stop gap and thats exactly what I see Elliot as... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 37 minutes ago, TrippinVdUb said: Id be open to breaking up this tandem if you could pry a guy like Scott Darling out of Chicago. Someone who has proven they could carry a backup role and is chomping at the bit to take over the starter job. But I have zero interest in a MAF/BenB type that is already demanding salary and term. This team needs a competent 2-3 year stop gap and thats exactly what I see Elliot as... Fair enough, something has to take place this offseason. I am with you on the MAF and BB thinking, not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 18 hours ago, TrippinVdUb said: No offense, but I completely disagree with that assessment, this team needed time to bring it together and get on the same page, now that the coaches, players and goalies have some familiarity the team looks to be turning a corner. Elliot left a good situation in St Louis that has been under the structure of a hall of fame coach for years and walked into a rebuilding team, playing a new style for a new coach. If Elliot and Johnson get us into the playoffs, I think they deserve the oppertunity to come back next season and show what they can do, infront of a team that should be a little more polished than they were at the start of this year. You cant just run goalies through a revolving door until one has a Veizna like season, these guys need time to learn how to win together, as a team. You do realize I said I would bring one of elliot or johnson back, just not both. I agree with your assessment that that you dont wait for a vezina caliber goalie and then sign him long term, but it also doesnt mean you necessarily lock up elliot/johnson who have been average. Elliot for 2 years is much different then elliot for 3 years, id be ok with elliot for 2 years, but if thats the case im not bringing johnson back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: You do realize I said I would bring one of elliot or johnson back, just not both. I agree with your assessment that that you dont wait for a vezina caliber goalie and then sign him long term, but it also doesnt mean you necessarily lock up elliot/johnson who have been average. Elliot for 2 years is much different then elliot for 3 years, id be ok with elliot for 2 years, but if thats the case im not bringing johnson back. Both are UFA so they have the say not the Flames. There will be lots of teams that would want either of these goalies with the experience they have. Unless we are trading for a goalie with some existing term we are not in the driver's seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Both are UFA so they have the say not the Flames. There will be lots of teams that would want either of these goalies with the experience they have. Unless we are trading for a goalie with some existing term we are not in the driver's seat. Depending on the rest of the season, the deal will be made prior to July 1st. We have no goalies that are protected as we speak. We need one. They started talking deal in October, but that was probably just to see the expectations on both sides. The other thing is that goalies will still be traded prior to the draft; the deal just means that they can't play until next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 4:38 PM, MAC331 said: Both are UFA so they have the say not the Flames. There will be lots of teams that would want either of these goalies with the experience they have. Unless we are trading for a goalie with some existing term we are not in the driver's seat. I woudln't agree there. The goalie market is flooded this offesason and with Elliott basically confirming this season he isn't a number 1 I can't see a team opening up the wallet for him. Here is a list of available or potentially available goalies this offseason: Ryan Miller Ben Bishop Steve Mason MAF Saros Korpisollo Phillip Grubauer Howard/Mzarek/Coreau - one of them likely to get moved Varlamov/PIckard Halak Scott Darling MIke Condon (althought apparantly Sens want to extend) that's a long list. Teams that would be looking for a number 1: Dallas ( would need to clear one of their goalies out which is tough) Flames Jets Vegas Teams that would look for a number 2 or a B type goalie situation: Hurricanes (but they are already paying 6 million for 2 guys that likely arn't moveable) Philly would want a backup/B type Canucks -more of a B type as Markstrom still under contract Lightning - I could see them wanting Johnson/Elliot as a backup but can they afford to pay him? Vasilevsky makes 3.5 and they have cap issues I think the Flames are in the driver seat when it comes to Elliott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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