Goaltending

[robrob74]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

 

Well ya, i'm talking next season.  We may as well ruin Elliott this year and keep Gillies as far away from this year's team as possible.

 

I just wonder if the problem will be fixed by next year.?

[conundrumed]

Wow. Peeps. Chill.

[jjgallow]

 

Agree with Peeps, I think what was meant is that Gillies injury set his career back a year, basically.  

 

He should be up with the Flames next year.   But things could be expedited if the coach gets desperate.

 

Oh, and desperate doesn't look too far off right now.  Normally I would get excited about that sort of thing, but not now.

[cross16]

Gilles hasn't been played 11 games yet on the Ahl. Total. Talk of him being up here is extremely premature. 

 

I'd much rather see him spend at least the next two season in the A. He's got lots to prove and no reason to be rushed. 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

Gilles hasn't been played 11 games yet on the Ahl. Total. Talk of him being up here is extremely premature. 

 

I'd much rather see him spend at least the next two season in the A. He's got lots to prove and no reason to be rushed. 

 

 

I say see where he is at at the end of the year. Evaluate and let him fight for a spot in camp. He will earn it when he is ready. Could be two years, but he isn't super young with his college experience against young men. 

[The_People1]

13 hours ago, cross16 said:

Gilles hasn't been played 11 games yet on the Ahl. Total. Talk of him being up here is extremely premature. 

 

I'd much rather see him spend at least the next two season in the A. He's got lots to prove and no reason to be rushed. 

 

Ya it's too bad. Last season should have been his first season in the AHL and this one his second.  Because he missed a whole season, this is his first now and he will probably need one more after this.  But after that, he will be 24-years-old so he should be NHL bound no question.

 

Between now and then though, all we need is a stop gap.  No way we go sign someone like Ben Bishop to a 7-year deal to big money or anything like that.  If we extend Elliott, i would wait until the end of the season due to his poor start this season.  The UFA goalie market for stop gaps is favorable for the Flames.

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya it's too bad. Last season should have been his first season in the AHL and this one his second.  Because he missed a whole season, this is his first now and he will probably need one more after this.  But after that, he will be 24-years-old so he should be NHL bound no question.

 

Between now and then though, all we need is a stop gap.  No way we go sign someone like Ben Bishop to a 7-year deal to big money or anything like that.  If we extend Elliott, i would wait until the end of the season due to his poor start this season.  The UFA goalie market for stop gaps is favorable for the Flames.

 

Well, you can wait, like they did with Monahan and Gaudreau.  Signing him now would probably get you the best deal.  It's not a real mystery that we need a guy for at least one or two more years.  Show confidence in him and sign him to 2-3 years.  Let Gillies become a much better goalie that is leading in the AHL before you bring him up.  When he is ready, he will be fighting for 30+ games a year to start.

 

We may already have the two goalies we need until then.  Johnson is already looking like a capable backup. 

[cross16]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, you can wait, like they did with Monahan and Gaudreau.  Signing him now would probably get you the best deal.  It's not a real mystery that we need a guy for at least one or two more years.  Show confidence in him and sign him to 2-3 years.  Let Gillies become a much better goalie that is leading in the AHL before you bring him up.  When he is ready, he will be fighting for 30+ games a year to start.

 

We may already have the two goalies we need until then.  Johnson is already looking like a capable backup. 

 

NOt so sure. Takes two sides and I highly doubt they are going to be anxious to jump into contract talks and take less becuase of how he has started. They'll have confidence he can bounce back.

 

I agree with Peeps, they should wait. I've been hard on Elliott and still don't thikn he is playing well but I also believe he will settle in but I think you wait for that to happen before you starting extended someone. There is a very real change that the Flames, and most people I might add, overlooked how important playing behind HItch was to Elliott's success. Can't make that decision yet, but don't sign a bad deal until you are sure. 

[JTech780]

I think the biggest reason McCollum was brought in was because they want Gillies to play the entire season the Stockton. So if there is an injury at the NHL level McCollum will be the call-up and serve as the back up. To me that is 100% the correct choice in that situation, Gillies has basically no pro experience and at this point in his development that's what he needs more than anything. Towards the end of the year, if Calgary is out of it and they move a goalie at the deadline than I would be fine giving Gillies a handful of games just to give him a taste, but I am not counting on him for anything at the NHL this year or next.

 

I am not sure what is going on with Elliott, it really seems like he is overreacting to shots on his blocker side. There have been a number of shots to his blocker side where all he had to do is rely on his positioning and stay quiet in the net to make the save, but instead he overplays it and the shot sneaks between his blocker and body or he makes the save and ends up out of position.

[JTech780]

That's the battle I was expecting from Elliott. He was fantastic in the shootout.

[redfire11]

Elliott played like the .923 % goalie he has been the last 5 years

[jjgallow]

Lol, came in here expecting to apologize for bashing the goaltending situation, and walked in to a defenceman debate

 

Great!

 

So glad we have a goaltending thread and a defence thread lol.

 

p.s...Engeland really, really sucked tonight  (Elliot rocked).

 

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

That play was as much Brouwer's fault. wasn't a good pass, but it was equally as bad a job at trying to receive it so Engelland should not take full blame. 2 vets can't make a play like that. I thought Engelland was solid. Did a nice job upping his physical game which i thought helped slow down the Hawks forecheck and minimize any pressure to the inside. up until the last min of the game Elliott wasn't really foreced into any big saves because most of the shots were coming from outside the high danger areas.2nd goal was a bad bounce so not really sure why we are trying to assume blame there. Stuff like that happens.

 

Elliott was solid, but I do think the team deserves alot of credit. Really minimized the high quality chances against and allowed Elliott to just play. 

 

I would think that there was only so much that Brouwer could have done on that pass.  He was already covered on the half boards, so he would not have been able to do much with it.  Engelland was solid except for then and the dying minutes.  He defended well on the 4-3 by taking away the cross crease passes.  His slowness didn't expose the team very often, but honestly, both he and Brodie did better away from each other.  

 

Back to the topic of goaltending.  Elliott was about as solid as you could hope for.  When Kan scored, he hadn't faced a lot of shots.  When Brodie deflected the puck, there was only so much he could do.  The rest of the time he was in the right position.  He was dynamite in the shootout.  If I had a complaint, it would be on how he tracks shots off the boards.  In EDM, the boards are very lively, and created a scoring chance.  In CHI, they were not so lively, so none were as blatant.  But there was at least once where he lost the puck and got over just in time.  I think Jokipakka got just enough of the puck to keep it out.

[MAC331]

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎23 at 9:28 AM, cross16 said:

Gilles hasn't been played 11 games yet on the Ahl. Total. Talk of him being up here is extremely premature. 

 

I'd much rather see him spend at least the next two season in the A. He's got lots to prove and no reason to be rushed. 

Hard to say what the timing will be as the door is wide open come this offseason. Much will depend on Gilles play this year in the A.

[Carty]

           

[Kulstad]

On 10/28/2016 at 2:08 PM, Carty said:

           

 

 

Defense posts are now in the DEFENSE THREAD (linky-poo --> http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/21053-flames-defense/?page=46)

 

[jjgallow]

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/nhl-agent-calls-out-islanders-handling-of-goaltenders-002714048.html

 

Good thing it totally makes sense in the AHL lol...

[jjgallow]

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/unsigned-free-agent-g-karri-ramo-practices-maple-leafs/

[jjgallow]

On 21/10/2016 at 0:42 PM, jjgallow said:

 

I can certainly understand how my post was upsetting to you and came across as harsh.   That was not the intent, and obviously we have different opinions.

....

Let's see how things are 10 games in.

 

On 21/10/2016 at 1:13 PM, cross16 said:

 

We agree here. Drawing any conclusions based on this limited of a sample size doesn't provide an argument for or against.

....

 

So....here we are....

 

1.  It's not good.

 

2. There are a lot of arguements out there right now to wait at least 20 games.   Don't worry....we will, and more.

 

My thoughts:   We need to acquire at least one, if not two elite defencemen, we need More in our goaltending pipeline (even now), and ....

                         We need to start looking at the coaching and GM situation.

 

And that...will be met with..."it's not even 20 games yet".

 

Don't worry...it will be...and 30 soon after.

 

Good things Are coming...a little later than we'd hoped though.  Potentially significantly later.

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

We need to acquire at least one, if not two elite defencemen, we need More in our goaltending pipeline (even now), and ....

                         We need to start looking at the coaching and GM situation.

 

What exactly are we trading for one or two more elite defencemen? and where are we getting these players from?

[YounGuns]

You gotta feel for Elliot.  It seems each game the 1st or 2nd shot against goes in.  But you look at all those early goals and you can rarely fault the goalie.  Look at the first three goals last night (didn't see the 4th), none of them were Elliot's fault.  We carry the play then give up A++ chances and all of a sudden we're chasing the game, then we get sloppy and give up more A++ chances.  Elliot's gotta be completely deflated, but you really can't put the losses on him.  All this talk coming into the season of being a "connected" group...we've yet to see it consistently.

[YounGuns]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Good things Are coming...a little later than we'd hoped though.  Potentially significantly later.

 

 

Sorry to say, but unless they turn it around this season I don't see these "good things" you're talking about.  The bright beacons of light in our system currently are:  Giordano, Brodie, Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton and Tkachuk.  You could maybe argue Gillies but I think it's still too early to tell as goalie prospects are a bit harder to predict.  Those are the guys that were supposed to take us to the next level, and unfortunately they are all already playing in the big league.  Sure, they will improve as they get older (or most will, Gio will begin his decline), but the fact of the matter is still that our current team is filled with our most promising players.  Compare that to teams like the Coyotes who have potential All Stars coming up in the system, our All Stars are already in our line-up.  Our development players coming in are promising players, but there isn't one of them that has the type of talent that is going to change our fortunes within the next few years.  Unless they do it by committee, and the whole "sum of it's parts" argument rings true, I don't see the good things on the horizon, and I'm by nature an eternal optimist.  Our cupboards are stocked with potentially good support players, but our NHL team already has our "saviors" in the line-up.  So if they can't turn their fortunes around this season, I think we might have to accept the fact that we're in for a long period of mediocrity with glimpses of brilliance.  Good enough to string us hopefuls along, not good enough to be legit contenders.

 

That being said, I'm not ready to give up on them yet.  I do think they will turn it around.

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, YounGuns said:

 

Sorry to say, but unless they turn it around this season I don't see these "good things" you're talking about.  The bright beacons of light in our system currently are:  Giordano, Brodie, Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton and Tkachuk.  You could maybe argue Gillies but I think it's still too early to tell as goalie prospects are a bit harder to predict.  Those are the guys that were supposed to take us to the next level, and unfortunately they are all already playing in the big league.  Sure, they will improve as they get older (or most will, Gio will begin his decline), but the fact of the matter is still that our current team is filled with our most promising players.  Compare that to teams like the Coyotes who have potential All Stars coming up in the system, our All Stars are already in our line-up.  Our development players coming in are promising players, but there isn't one of them that has the type of talent that is going to change our fortunes within the next few years.  Unless they do it by committee, and the whole "sum of it's parts" argument rings true, I don't see the good things on the horizon, and I'm by nature an eternal optimist.  Our cupboards are stocked with potentially good support players, but our NHL team already has our "saviors" in the line-up.  So if they can't turn their fortunes around this season, I think we might have to accept the fact that we're in for a long period of mediocrity with glimpses of brilliance.  Good enough to string us hopefuls along, not good enough to be legit contenders.

 

That being said, I'm not ready to give up on them yet.  I do think they will turn it around.

So you want instant stardom from our young guns NOW ? is that correct ? or we are doomed for mediocrity for years. Am I hearing this right ?

[DirtyDeeds]

8 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

So you want instant stardom from our young guns NOW ? is that correct ? or we are doomed for mediocrity for years. Am I hearing this right ?

I think he is saying a bit of both. His point was there are no real high end or Franchise type players to look forward to in the system right now. All those players are already on the roster.

 

I don't see any core players in the system that might be ready soon either. Gillies down the road but not this season and unlikely next.

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I think he is saying a bit of both. His point was there are no real high end or Franchise type players to look forward to in the system right now. All those players are already on the roster.

 

I don't see any core players in the system that might be ready soon either. Gillies down the road but not this season and unlikely next.

I know what he is saying and there is nothing wrong with the core we do have playing now other than they all need more experience before they are ever going to be saviours collectively. I think people's expectations were way to high for where this team was going this season. This was always going to be another growth year where this young core will need to mature and learn to win together. We will need these support players within the system, some this year and definitely some next year as some vets move out.