kehatch

Agreed. Hamilton, Giordano, and Monahan have been stars in segments, but those two have been great all season. I am not sure if it has registered for some this season. But Brodie is one of the top point producers on D this season, one of the minute leaders, and the best tough minute guy on the ice by every metric. Brodie is an elite D.

Brodie has been the Flames second best player behind Gaudreau. I don't think anyone else is close personally.

Fleury is also out with a concussion. I still think there are better options are out there then Hiller. And if there aren't then what do the Flames do to replace him? But you never know.

Last time I checked we have two teams and both teams need two goalies. Pretty sure that equals four. Khudobin might not be the answer. In fact I am a long ways from believing he is any better the Ramo. I would probably pass on him unless the Flames are particularly high on him. But I do think the Flames need to find that fourth goalie. And he might be a marginal upgrade on paper. But so was Dubnyk. So was Kipper. So were a lot of goalies.

I am really on the fence with Bernier. On one hand we lack options. We also don't have an NHL goalie signed to start next season so we can afford him. But in the other he has two good seasons under his belt and is 27. His last good season was 2 years ago. This season he has been out aged by two very marginal goalies. I am okay with taking a risk based on potential. But is he the next Dubnyk? Or is he what he appears to be, a borderline NHL goalie? If Anderson or another option isn't available then I consider him. But I look at other options first.

Agreed. Besides, goalies are generally not that expensive to acquire given the limited market.

Not happy with Hiller, but Ortio hasn't been great in Adirondack either. He ne do to play himself back into the NHL.

SV% .862, GAA 3.75, W 3. Worst in SV% and GAA among NHL goalies that have played at least 9-games. Third worst in wins. Tough to be cheery about Hiller's performance this season.

If Gaudreau has a mediocre game because of illness he gets a pass. He has earned that with his play. I really didn't like the second goal last night and the third was pretty weak as well. Tough to give Hiller a pass since he hasn't played well sick or healthy.

I think goalie is the easiest position to find via trade. Every season one or two guys come out of nowhere and shoe they are starters. Dubnyk last season is an example. Bernier is a cheap option. Fredrick Anderson is an expensive but ultimately better option. Varlamov is a possibility. Every team needs one and only one (speaking of starters). That equals low demand and potentially good availability. I just don't know if it's better to go after a goalie in the season. Anaheim (for example) probably isn't ready to trade Anderson and the Flames have no chance of trading Ramo or Hiller. So it might be better to wait.

The Flames are last or near to last in goal differential, PK, PP, standings, etc. Here is a good article from Haynes detailing exactly how bad we have been: http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2015/11/eight-from-80-feet-eight-dreadful.html?m=1 A lot of us pointed out that luck had as much to do with last seasons success as coaching or skill. I think Hartley was over rated last season because of it. Many of the issues we are speaking about this season we were speaking about last season. But it wasn't as noteworthy because we were getting results.

Where was he supposed to earn more starts? He has had two starts all season and the first one didn't come until October 26. You can't sit a goalie for a month and then bench him when he doesn't play well. Tending is as much about confidence and routine as anything else. He wasn't even getting good reps in at practice ad the third goalie.

Here is a scathing review of Russell. It articulates what a lot of us have been saying. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/the-incredibly-overrated-kris-russell/

Agreed. He is an RFA and he is European. Not playing him is the same as losing him on waivers because he isn't signing an extension with the Flames at this point. It still appears to me as if the coach and GM aren't on the same page with Ortio. Coach doesn't trust him. GM wants to see what they have in him. But if Hartley doesn't play him despite terrible goaltending early, or despite Hiller going down, or despite Ramo playing a record number of consecutive starts then clearly he doesn't trust the player.

I don't think Treliving keeps him up to sit the bench if he isn't worried about waivers. One has to assume he called around and though the risk was at least moderate. But based on the season to date my guess is the risk had gone down. You never know though. I would have said Berra would have cleared waivers but Colorado wanted him so bad they gave us a second for him.

I think the right of it is a moot discussion. Ortio was goalie number 3 behind two goalies playing terrible hockey. Since Hiller went down Ramo is setting personal records for consecutive starts. Clearly they don't trust Ortio to play. If Ortio was lights out in the few starts he had then maybe things change. But he wasn't. Barring him getting a game and playing really well I don't see him getting sticking over Ramo or Hiller. Not unless Treliving thinks he is at risk of getting claimed.

I think Ortio the world have went down day one if not for the risk of waivers. I don't think k the risk exists now.

Might be the perfect excuse to send Ortio down and put Hiller in the back up spot.

I will admit there is a silver lining if Russell is out for a few games. The coach plays him way to many minutes and this gives other players a chance to prove themselves. it also opens up combinations that Hartley has been reluctant to try such as Brodie-Hamilton. It may also give Wideman a chance to get going. But Russell >> Smid. Russell being out isn't a good thing.

Looks like a finger injury. They were calling it day to day.

Performances from other bottom teams in the NHL (most common goalie shown): Edmonton, Talbot: GAA 3.09, SV% .890 Columbus, Bobrovsky: GAA 3.34, SV% .891 Toronto, Reimer: GAA 2.30, SV% .925 Anaheim, Anderson: GAA 2.33, SV% .924 Carolina, Ward: GAA 2.52, SV% .898 Philly, Mason: GAA 3.37, SV% .895 Colorado, Varlamov: GAA 3.26, SV% .890 Calgary, Ramo: GAA 3.36, SV% .894 So there is a case to be made that bad teams lead to bad goalie stats. I think it is true and part of the reason goalies are voodoo. That said, our goalies are not off the hook: Most of the teams on the list have a second goalie that is playing fine. Ramo is the one of the worst on the above list but has the best statistics of any Flames goalie. Gross. Most of the goalies on that list have played well previously and are having off years. Our guys have either never been good (Ramo) or haven't been for a long time (Hiller). Every team on that list has a goalie playing behind a really young or really poor D group. Our goalies have Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Wideman, and Russell in front of them. In the off season most were calling that one of the best D core in the NHL. Our D didn't just collectively decide to get bad at the same time. Decent goal tending disguises the mistakes that EVERY D core makes. All of our mistakes seem to go in amplifying them (and leading to trust issues that cause more mistakes.) I don't think goal tending is the only issue. The D aren't playing like they should. Our PK isn't good. The coaching has been very questionable this season with predictable 'one trick' systems that other teams can expose. BUT our goalies are a big part of the problem. There isn't a weak goal stat, but I am sure we would be leading the NHL in that metric if it did exist. There also isn't a clutch goal stat, but we would be at the bottom if there was.

Ramo can light the world on fire for a period or a game and then stink it up the next. We have seen him make save of the year candidates in the first and second only to flush the game down the toilet with a couple of weak ones in the third. Last night he was good. But does anyone have even the slightest intelligent guess what he will be next game?

Agreed, For the most part. That said, I would be concerned if Ortio was claimed. As much as I don't love him as a prospect, we haven't seen enough of him to know what we have yet. Both Ramo and Hiller are UFA at the end of the season and Gilles isn't ready. It would be really great if Ortio established himself as an NHL starter and I really wish this team would at least give him the chance. But, if they won't (and clearly they won't) then they might as well waive him because him sitting the bench helps nobody.

Last season was last season. This season we have league low goaltending and are in the bottom of the standings. You are right though. He might lose. But he might not. Every season a young goalie similar to Ortio establishes himself as a top goalie. Not playing him because he might lose is silly. Especially when the vets are losing. Regardless. Letting him rott in the bench isn't good for anyone.

So if I show a stat line of a game he played poorly in does that mean I am right and he shouldn't have started? Agree with him starting or not, it's pretty tough to defend how the goalies have been managed this season.