kehatch
-
Posts
10,467 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
33
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Videos
Events
Gallery
Everything posted by kehatch
-
We put forward an AHL roster against a late preseason NHL roster. The coaches were experimenting with different players in different roles. Ortio played fine. I don't think it hurt his chances even a little.
-
Exactly. The Flames don't have a solution in net beyond this season. Assuming he shows he is ready (and he has) they need to see what they have in Ortio.
-
When would be a good time for you? He has two successful AHL seasons, has looked good in his call ups, is 24, and is having a good camp. Plus, Ramo and Hiller have one more season under contract. Plus Ortio will be am RFA. We really need to know what we have in Ortio before next summer. If he doesn't even it in camo then sure, send him down. But he hasn't given the Flames a reason yet.
-
Signing Ramo was not a mistake. We have three goalies slugging it out for two positions. That is healthy competition. It was also insurance if Ortio didn't have a strong season. Worst case is we burn some salary in the minors. Best case is we get some small assets in a trade either immediately or sometime before the deadline. None of that is dreadful and it is certainly worth the upside. Not only does Ortio have the best stats this preseason, he is doing it with a weak Flames roster against NHL ready rosters. Look at the D that has been in front of him. We get to see it again tonight. Ramo and Hiller have had the opposite circumstances. With Ortio and Ramo getting full half starts and Ortio getting full starts it really looks like Ramo and Hiller are fighting for the final job.
-
Your over rating Hiller's impact. He is an average goalie that has been average. He has one more year under contract. He was brought in as a stop gap. Letting one of your young guys go on waivers to keep the average stop gap doesn't make sense. I am not advocating Hiller over Ramo. I don't have a strong preference. But waiving Ortio to keep two veteran stop gaps for one more season would be a terrible mistake that the Flames won't make. As for Hiller vs Ramo, I agree that Hiller is more stable and safe. I think Ramo is better when he is on but poor when he isn't. Personally I still think Ramo could improve. Goalies are voodoo and Ramo could be the next Dubnyk. I think we know what we have in Hiller. So I pick Ramo over Hiller. But I wouldn't have am issue with keeping Hiller over Ramo either. If Ortio had a terrible camp I would waive him. He probably wouldn't get claimed and he would use the development time. But he has been really good in the preseason. You can't put him on waivers.
-
It's a "what have you done for me lately" league. This preseason the goalie who is earning the spot is Ortio. The Flames had average goal tending last season. Ortio has a low bar to reach and he could very well exceed it. There is zero reason to risk him on waivers imo.
-
I don't think there are that many all that high on Ortio. I am certainly not. But he is ready to be given a shot and he has earned it so far this preseason. We will lose him for waivers. Playing him to see what he has makes sense.
-
I agree with others that the Flames won't waive Ortio. Hartley hates carrying three goalies so that won't happen, at least long term. That leaves Ramo vs Hiller. There isn't a right answer so the debate will be polarizing. But it will ultimately come down to who the Flames like the most. If they like them the same it will come down to who they can move for the most.
-
The bottom line is the Flames had average goal tending last season. They have a young waiver eligible kid who could possibly provide better then average goal tending. The math isn't all that hard from there.
-
I agree the Flames have walked the talk re "always earned, never given". This includes giving roster spots to prospects that have earned it. But you can't deny that we have too many players either. At goal we have three waiver eligible guys on one-way contracts. If Ortio pushes the issue they are going to have to figure out something. Especially since they want Gilles to get starts in the AHL. On D we added Hamilton without losing anyone. Right now we will be sitting 3+ million on the bench to be our 7D. It is going to be really tough for Morrison, Wotherspoon, or Nakladel to make the roster even if they earn it in camp. At forward we added Frolik and Bennett without losing anyone. Guys with NHL experience like Ferland and Granlund will have trouble making the opening night roster let alone hopefuls like Agostino, Hathaway, and Poirier. That isn't to say there isn't opportunity. They might park a vet in the AHL or clear a spot via trade. There is also opportunity when injury strikes. But the roster is really full right now make the Flames a really tough team to make. That is a legitimate concern on a team going through a rebuild.
-
He is really knocking it out of the park with his top end players. The Brodie, Giordano, and Backlund extensions were great. The Frolik signing was good value. The Hamilton acquisition and signing was a game changer.
-
Making the playoffs doesn't justify bad contracts. Yes we needed defensive depth to survive the loss of Giordano. But that doesn't mean we needed to pay too much to sign Engelland.
-
I didn't like the Engelland signing because we significantly overpaid for a D because he was big. He isn't a good NHL D. He is just big. I wasn't a big fan of the term on Raymond. I think my general take was that I didn't love the signing but it was a tough deal to hate given the Flames circumstance. The Engelland signing was a poor signing IMO. It reeked a bit of Burke and the mandate to add size. Something Treliving has seemed to have gotten over now that he has more credibility as a GM. I also didn't like the Bollig trade. Giving up assets to bring on that player and contract never made sense to me.
-
Your not being fair. Everyone; you, me, BT, etc; thought the Flames were a couple of years away from seriously contending for the playoffs. Raymond was brought into give the Flames an option so they didn't have to throw their kids in over their heads. They needed players that weren't super expensive, really wanted to play in Calgary during that build, and had the right character. Raymond fit the build. The fact we blew expectations out of the water and that our kids progressed faster then expected doesn't change that. if BT planned for what happened and it didn't happen (which is what we would expect) then he would be at fault.
-
The Flames received average goal tending last season. Sure both Ramo and Hiller when on runs, but every NHL goalie did. So did Ortio to start his call up. When you look at the entire season our tending was just okay. We give a lot of credit to the goalies, but really it was our scoring that got us into the playoffs. Hiller isn't going to progress from okay. He is what he is. I would rather stick with a goalie that could develop into our next starter.
-
There is. But it is early in training camp I believe. Ortio will participate in camp and be waiver eligible if he is sent down.
-
No. There is a risk of him being claimed at the beginning of the season. Even Treliving acknowledged as much during his interview on the fan today. I think he clears waivers. But I thought Berra would have cleared waivers and Colorado gave up a second round pick to get him. You never know which teams might really like the player.
-
That is true. But Ortio is also waiver eligible this season.
-
I think last seasons free agency was a case of Treliving getting comfortable with the role and the team. But it was also him bringing on veteran shelter for what was supposed to be a tough rebuilding year.
-
You lost me a little bit. I didn't say age is irrelevant. In fact, I think it is very relevant. I just don't see Ramo improving a bunch on the Flames. I could be wrong, but if the Flames agree with that then it makes sense they would look at other options.
-
Goalies are voodoo. How many times have we seen a goalie change teams only to become elite. How about vise versa? Kipper himself was unpredictable from season to season. And especially from coach to coach. Chasing an elite goalie is futile IMO. Find someone in the right age range for the right price and roll the dice. Ramo has been merely decent. No point in repeating the exercise. Give Ortio a shot. Plus, if you can replace Hiller with another young guy you might as well take a shot at it.
-
Lehner went for salary and a first. Now apparently someone has offered a first rounder for Talbot (not the Flames). I am a fan of going after Lehner, Talbot, Jones, or Dubnyk. But not at those prices. If it costs us a second then sure. But right now goalies are going for WAY to much. So much for a buyers market!
-
Gilles and MacDonald are a long ways off and I don't think the Flames know what Ortio is yet. They want an NHL ready goalie that is an option long term. Hiller isn't it. Ramo might be, but that depends on how much upside they see in him and what kind of contract he is willing to sign. I think that is why you are hearing about interest in Talbot, Lehner, etc. I think the Flames are simply keeping their options open. Extend Ramo. Sign Dubnyk. Trade for Lehner or Talbot. Etc. Any of those guys can give you 50+ games while they learn what they have with Ortio in the NHL and evaluate Gilles in the AHL.
-
I don't see long term upside in Hiller our Ramo. Treliving had said many times he is looking at the long term, not the short term. Talbot, Lehner, Dubnyk, etc all have long term upside while having enough experience that starting next season with one of them plus Ortio isn't irresponsible. It isn't as safe as keeping Ramo or Hiller, but the risk could pay off long term (and even short term). It is easy to find down side in these options because it is a risk. Plus we grew attached to the Ramo/Hiller combo last season. But for a rebuilding team it actually makes a lot of sense.
-
Agreed. He would be worth a second rounder. I think he has much more long term upside then Ramo. That said, some of the rumors suggest that the Flames could go forward with Ortio and Lehner. That is a bit scary.