kehatch
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Everything posted by kehatch
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If there was a 38 year old goalie playing for another team with a few good games how high would he be in the conversation? What if he hasn't had a good season since 2011/2012? What if he had over a year off due to poor play and injury and was a reluctant backup before that. Would a few good games for a non playoff team down the stretch convince you he is a better option then the multitude of guys that are also available? We might as well pull Kipper out of retirement. They are the same age and have played almost the same number of games over the past few years. They were also both relevant in about the same time period. Backstrom is an impractical option and there is nothing he can do in the few games he will get to change that.
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I doubt that. He is a 38 year old goalie. If the Flames sign him the bandwagon will erupt even if he plays well for his two or three games.
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He was terrible at 37 before not playing for a year. Ramo is a MUCH better option. Hiller is a better option. There is nothing he can do in the two or three games left to earn a contract.
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Apparently they agreed to give Backstrom starts in exchange for him waiving his NMC (no surprise). As a classy gesture they are giving him a start against his former team (Minnesota) but wanted to give him a warm up game today. Which is fine I guess. Except "Always Earned, Never Given" is turning into "Sometimes Earned, Occasionally Given" which is too bad given how hard the Flames have been playing. It also requires a lot of squinting to see this as anything but a tank. Playing your cold hand against the bad teams on the road before returning to Ortio for the tough games ...
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Hartley just realized that he was making too much sense with the goalie rotation. Time to come back down from his senses. So they are back to a "schedule" with Backstrom, Hiller, Backstrom as the next three starters. You can't make this stuff up. https://twitter.com/Fan960Steinberg/status/711588372150521856
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Treliving is a smart GM. I seriously doubt we enter next season with 3 goalies again. That was a disaster this year and it won't be repeated. If they have more then 2 goalies to start camp the competition will be over before game 1.
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Not a surprise, but I see the exact opposite. Goalies that were previously not available may now be available increasing our opportunity to get a starter for next season.
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The expansion team is going to get 30 players. Not all of them are going to be NHL players. I would say about half of them are going to be added to their system with the remaining spots filled in via trade / free agency. I think the eligible young prospects will be at as much risk as anyone to get picked.
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Assuming the Flames sign Ortio to an extensio and assuming that Gilles won't be exempt (TBD) we still need two goalies next season. If you bring on a bridge goalie like Pavalec, Ramo, or Reimer then they are either UFA before it matters or they go unprotected. If you bring on a good option like Varlamov then you have a year to see how the market shakes out and if you think Gilles/Ortii is at risk you can still protect him. If you somehow manage to get one of the top young guys like Murray or Andersen then you take the risk. I agree with Cross that it is unlikely Gilles is going to get claimed given the number of good young goalies available.
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They can experiment sure. Either this season or in the preseason. But you could say that about any player. I personally don't see Nakladal succeeding in the top 4. He lacks the defensive skills to be successful there.
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Nakladal looks good playing really sheltered minutes. Throw him with Giordano and chances are he gets murdered.
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If you could pick and choose which games or periods to include every goalie would ha E radically different stats. Over a 10 game sample most teams are going have a period or game that is off.
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Since his most recent recall Ortio has went 3-5-2, .904, 2.60. Those aren't good numbers. Keep in mind that the Flames have been short on D over that time. But they have also averaged 27 shots on net per game so it isn't like they have been terrible defensively. I can't think of many games where he was hung out to dry defensively. He should get another 10 games or so to finish the season. But unless his team collapses in front of him I want those numbers to improve. Otherwise I am at least testing the waters this summer for an upgrade before signing him to an extension. That said he kept them at 2 goals against in 6 of his 9 starts. So I am hoping the last couple of games are just a blip and he will improve for the last 10.
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I think most people agree with this.
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This is where most people seem to be fundamentally disagreeing with you. First, there is nothing Ortio can do over the remainder of the season that will convince most of us he is ready to anchor the goal position with an unproven backup. Second, giving a rookie goalie a chance does not require giving him the undisputed reigns. He can get his chance playing tandem with another goalie. Third, the team will not and should not gamble an entire season just to give Ortio a chance. Even if he had earned that level of trust (and he certainly hasn't done that.)
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Exactly. Plus Varlamov is a very solid goalie in his own right and would be a significant step up on anything we have right now. He is also in his prime and young enough to continue to improve.
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Throwing a bunch of rookies in the shark tank isn't good for their their development. Having unstable goaltending isn't good for team development. You make a lot of assumptions and spend a lot of time on the poles. Just because someone doesn't agree with the wacky notion of having a camp with no NHL experienced goalies doesn't mean we are aiming for mediocrity. I say again, it's easy to jump on a soap box but where is your evidence. Show me a credible example where an NHL team has actually done this and it has actually worked. Because I have given you many examples where NHL teams have done the alternative and that worked very well.
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Mid body and day to day. Possible for tomorrow. Closer then Bennett (who is also day to day and possible for tomorrow.)
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No I don't. Of course I am assuming you read the entire post and didn't take that comment out of context. The plan isn't to get mediocre goal tending. The plan is to have a young goalie challenging for starts and a veteran who has the capacity to be good. But it's a much better worst case scenario then loading camp with a bunch of goalies with zero experience and hope you get lucky.
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I was responding to JJ who is suggesting the Flames have to invite a bunch of rookies to camp and go forward with the best of the two. Which I seriously disagree with. But I do agree with most of your post. Preferably I would like a young proven goalie ready to start. Realistically though I am not sure that is available. There are plenty of examples though of goalies that have done well after a fresh start. Luongo, Dubnyk, and Mason come immediately to mind. JTech780 suggested Varlamov aways back and I think he is primed for that kind of play on a fresh team. But whether it's Ramo, Varlamov or someone else it isn't a total failure if they are just mediocre. Ortio or another will hopefully push for starts.
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A bit of a follow-up to my last. Just over half of the NHL teams started the season with an inexperienced young goalie in either the starter or the back-up role. Here is the list starter/back-up for those teams (inexperienced player in bold) Andersen/Khudobin (demoted to the AHL and replaced by Gibson) Johnson/Lehner Crawford/Darling Varlamov/Pickard Mrazek/Howard Talbot/Scrivens (traded late season and replaced with Brossoit) Dubnyk/Kuemper Schneider/Kinkaid Lundqvist/Raanta Anderson/Hammond Jones/Stalock (traded late season and replaced with Reimer) Allen/Elliot Bishop/Vasilevskiy Bernier/Sparks Miller/Markstrom Holtby/Gruabaur Pavelec/Hutchinson In every single case teams started the season with at least one experienced goalie. Anaheim eventually demoted Khudobin and recalled Gibson once Andersen was proving to carry the load. But they still had him in reserve if they needed to recall him. That covers today. But lets look at some of the good young goalies in the NHL today and see if they got their starts with another inexperienced goalie. Rask (Thomas) Price (Huet) Schneider (Luongo/Brodeur) Holtby (Neuvirth) Mrazek (Howard) Andersen (Hiller/Khudobin) Talbot (Lundqvist/Scrivens) Jones (Quick/Stalock) Allen (Halak/Elliot) I am not seeing any examples of these goalies developing in the NHL without an experienced partner. So I ask again. Give me something credible to back this statement up. An example of a team that has done it and had success. Because from my perspective it has NEVER been ideal to throw a bunch of rookie goalies into camp and pick the best two. What would have been ideal is to have had a rookie pushing our veteran for starts prior to now so we had a proven young player to be our starter. And that is what is ideal now. The only question is who is the rookie and who is the veteran.
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You keep making broad statement such as "we have to do it". If that is the only way to do it then give me examples of teams that have done it and found success. Because I and others have given you plenty of examples of veteran / rookie tandems that have worked. We have given plenty of examples of teams having success off of a veteran who wasn't playing at a top 15 level prior. Take a step off the soap box and give some examples to prove your theory. Try refuting the examples that have been given if your going to claim your way is the only way. Because I can't see how you can legitimately say that going into next season with 40 games played among our goalies in camp carries less risk then having a proven NHL goalie?
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Agreed. They will probably go with one proven and one unproven goalie this season. They need to find an upgrade for Ramo for sure. The question is whether they will look for an upgrade to Ortio as well.
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Murray might not be available, but having another goalie to send back increases your chances of brining on another young goalie. For the record, I am not saying they will or should do this. But if the organization is not convinced his recent performance is a step and instead thinks it is a blip they might try to translate it into another player.
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I mostly agree. With the caveat that if they can't find an upgrade to Ramo they might not have much of a choice. On another note and not directed to DD, we are all assuming Ortio is earning a contract with the Flames. But what if they turn his recent success into trade value to bring in someone like Murray?