2024 Free Agency

[Thebrewcrew]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Is it time to discuss the Johnny-Mony thing yet? He gets traded with a 1st, everyone leaves as soon as they can.

Full circle, reunited.

Do people still believe in coincidence?

An alternative take for discussion.

That Monahan trade/treatment soured Johnny. Everyone soured.

Him and Tkachuk leave, pretty much daring everyone else.

Nobody wants to re-sign, even Mangiapane unhappy and traded.

We gave up a 1st to get rid of Monahan.

Then the top half of our roster went, yeah, no we're out.

Was Monahan's treatment the linchpin that opened the floodgates?

Gaudreau left for Columbus before Monahan was traded. Tkachuk was gone too

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Gaudreau left for Columbus before Monahan was traded. Tkachuk was gone too

So no, is what you're saying?

[phoenix66]

28 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So no, is what you're saying?

No...  Johnny was the grenade 

He left ..  made chucky rethink his future..

The trade fizzled...  Monahan was traded to make room for Kadri ..

The next season was a dumpster fire .. the other core players saw the window had closed ..and here we are ..

 

Johnny stays...or at least makes up his mind a lot sooner to allow us to get a return ..the next season is likely a whole different story and much better outcome 

[tmac70]

27 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

No...  Johnny was the grenade 

He left ..  made chucky rethink his future..

The trade fizzled...  Monahan was traded to make room for Kadri ..

The next season was a dumpster fire .. the other core players saw the window had closed ..and here we are ..

 

Johnny stays...or at least makes up his mind a lot sooner to allow us to get a return ..the next season is likely a whole different story and much better outcome 

Cause and effect from Trevling. Poor negotiations with JG toss Mony out with the bath water to land Kadri then Chucky could see the train wreck coming. Lindholm never returned to form, Markstrom, Big Z, and Hanifin are like to hell with this and here we are. The next piece to fall will be Anderson, he already has the body language of I am done. 

[phoenix66]

8 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Cause and effect from Trevling. Poor negotiations with JG toss Mony out with the bath water to land Kadri then Chucky could see the train wreck coming. Lindholm never returned to form, Markstrom, Big Z, and Hanifin are like to hell with this and here we are. The next piece to fall will be Anderson, he already has the body language of I am done. 

Chucky was already gone when Monahan was traded and we signed Kadri.. it could be argued that we pursued Kadri harder because of Chucky leaving.. 

 

Again.. hindsight is king ..but I really don't blame BT for the negotiations.

The year before that most people whine about, Johnny was NOT worth $10M .. there were fears about Chucky not being worth the $9M qualifying offer he had coming ..this board was jam packed with talks of the " bad contract" he was going to become . How soon we forget 

 

When we Initially signed chucky to his bridge , the fanbase woukd have been up in arms if they had let Frolik leave . No way to know he'd crash and burn shortly after..  that's what it came down to .. 

 

At the time ,Mony was becoming a bad contract ..there were serious concerns for his career .. he was coming into a contract year .. his contact was in the way of signing Kadri.. it had to be done .  His recovery and comeback is a major feel good story ..but at the time , it had to be done ..

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

No...  Johnny was the grenade 

He left ..  made chucky rethink his future..

The trade fizzled...  Monahan was traded to make room for Kadri ..

The next season was a dumpster fire .. the other core players saw the window had closed ..and here we are ..

 

Johnny stays...or at least makes up his mind a lot sooner to allow us to get a return ..the next season is likely a whole different story and much better outcome 

I think next time I try to stir the pot of offseason dissent, I'll try to get my facts straight first. lol

Stupid birthday BBQs for fam and too many barley sandwiches for the cook. lol

"hey, everyone's gone home, let's go on the internet and make bad decisions".

And never go on eBay after midnight.

[JTech780]

 

[cross16]

Continue to find it pretty interesting that despite so many not liking this team and the direction of it for YEARS are now trying to assign blame for it not being here. 

 

And how quickly we forget the amount of praise around here for how the Flames salvaged that off season with the Huberdeau/Kadri moves. Ton of hindsight bias going on here. 

 

Most wanted a re tool, now you've got one so not sure why the desire to look back. 

[cberg]

Boredom.  All big events past, development camp this week then two long months in the desert, so to speak.... Go out and walk the dog, or play with the grandkids...

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Continue to find it pretty interesting that despite so many not liking this team and the direction of it for YEARS are now trying to assign blame for it not being here. 

 

And how quickly we forget the amount of praise around here for how the Flames salvaged that off season with the Huberdeau/Kadri moves. Ton of hindsight bias going on here. 

 

Most wanted a re tool, now you've got one so not sure why the desire to look back. 

i think a lot of distaste for the Flames for me was Sutter. I wanted them to shift gears earlier but was happy with the trade and signing. The culture of the team shifted with Sutter's treatment of the players. 
 

i always wanted a retool or rebuild and thought Huberdeau might buy some time. 
 

and History. We are hoping the teams do better, develop better and treat players better. If we turn a blind eye then the organization thinks we are blind sheep that will follow anyway. Expect more and maybe you get more. Showing our expectations and reading of the situations haven't changed.

 

if you don't talk about it, eventually it's like it never happened and then they just rinse and repeat. 

[robrob74]

Let's put out a list of rules we are to follow when discussing the team and sports.

 

- no negativity

- no discussing past history

- only talk about the lineup when the season is about to start, not too early in the offseason, the lineup might change. So don't put our own projected lines together. Can't be excited about that...

- no bashing ex players or GM's

 

What is missing? 
anyone wanna add some. Seems there are a few who want to tell us how to Fan so let's make a list.

[sak22]

34 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Let's put out a list of rules we are to follow when discussing the team and sports.

 

- no negativity

- no discussing past history

- only talk about the lineup when the season is about to start, not too early in the offseason, the lineup might change. So don't put our own projected lines together. Can't be excited about that...

- no bashing ex players or GM's

 

What is missing? 
anyone wanna add some. Seems there are a few who want to tell us how to Fan so let's make a list.

Be a fan however you want, nobody here is positive all the time, plenty of reasons to bash ex players and gms but the level of digging to find things to blame them on is getting ridiculous, it’s sad that I come off as positive just because I don’t feel the need to come here and complain about every move, or moves that happened years ago.   I don’t dwell on the past or make conclusions because of past events.  Be a fan however you want, just my thoughts on the past remain the same, I don’t really want to talk about it anymore, and don’t want to waste time reading the same stuff over and over again, but you can keep doing what you do, you just might wind up on the ignore list.

[cberg]

56 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Let's put out a list of rules we are to follow when discussing the team and sports.

 

- no negativity

- no discussing past history

- only talk about the lineup when the season is about to start, not too early in the offseason, the lineup might change. So don't put our own projected lines together. Can't be excited about that...

- no bashing ex players or GM's

 

What is missing? 
anyone wanna add some. Seems there are a few who want to tell us how to Fan so let's make a list.

No negativity, but referencing past history has lots of value, as you'd hope we learn from the past.  Also, specific line-ups, ok, but generally it is the core of the team going forward, how can you avoid it?

[cberg]

With the moves made, we pretty much have a full line-up, however we don't know if other moves are in the works (e.g. Necas), or what the thinking is relative to the Wranglers?  I would think waivers (e.g. Pelletier, Schwindt, Solovyov, Wolf..) might be a determining factor for prospects/those on the verge.  This year is do or die for these guys... With a low Cap, the Flames might be willing to keep a full taxi squad (23 players?) rotating waiver-exempt players through and of course there are always injuries.  In addition, we have several upcoming UFAs (Kuzmenko, Mantha, Vladar, also Hanley, Duehr, Hunt and Rooney)  so if the same pattern is maintained, they will either sign extensions, be up for trading once the new year comes, or walking at season's end.  The major players signed through the rebuild are Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar and Sharangovich, with Coleman and Backlund not quite as long.  I'm expecting keeping the status quo, with low probability of additional major trades, although taking a salary dump plus incentive could be handled but it is getting a bit crowded!

[cross16]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

i think a lot of distaste for the Flames for me was Sutter. I wanted them to shift gears earlier but was happy with the trade and signing. The culture of the team shifted with Sutter's treatment of the players. 
 

i always wanted a retool or rebuild and thought Huberdeau might buy some time. 
 

and History. We are hoping the teams do better, develop better and treat players better. If we turn a blind eye then the organization thinks we are blind sheep that will follow anyway. Expect more and maybe you get more. Showing our expectations and reading of the situations haven't changed.

 

if you don't talk about it, eventually it's like it never happened and then they just rinse and repeat. 

 

If you want to talk about mistakes from the past to learn then i'm all ears. Sam Bennett wasn't developed well, why and what do we do differently. Perfectly fine conversation. 

 

Looking back and trying to speculate and assign blame, useless IMO. Especially considering the place the Flames are today is where most wanted/want to be. 

 

Not advocating for strict rules just pointing out that there are differences in what is a valuable discussion and less valuable. 

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Continue to find it pretty interesting that despite so many not liking this team and the direction of it for YEARS are now trying to assign blame for it not being here. 

 

And how quickly we forget the amount of praise around here for how the Flames salvaged that off season with the Huberdeau/Kadri moves. Ton of hindsight bias going on here. 

 

Most wanted a re tool, now you've got one so not sure why the desire to look back. 

Dude. It's the offseason. Don't take every rant to heart. Have fun with it. We've got a couple of months to see how it shakes out. Might as well have fun with it. Being wrong is a skill. lol

[travel_dude]

So the Flames have the most cap avaiable with 21/23 players.

You can see it as a tank team or a team done with spending to the cap for nothing.

It may be nice to take on some bad contract right now, but I would suggest keeping about 14M of it.

Teams can get desperate when they need someone to take cap at TDL in the middle of a deal.

It doesn't always turn into something major, but if you only hold a contract for a few months, it's just money.

Not that much of it when you compare to Lucic.

 

Right now there may be some sleepr players avaiable in FA.

They aren't going to get the 7 year deal for $1 B.

Kylington may have to lower what he wants.

That's not even the best player to consider.

 

There are some guys available that may be good on short term deal.

Or we add them to maximize their value to us ling term (24 or less).

Roslovic

Boqvist

Kubalik

Sprong

Zadina

 

It's a mixed bag there.  I don't pretend to know the issue with Roslovic.  Not old by any stretch.  Just ideas.  

[travel_dude]

23 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So no, is what you're saying?

 

Dude, can you explain what DET is doing this year?

Tarasenko

Kane

Dries

Snively (School of Rock?  That's Schnee-blee).

Campbell

Talbot (2 goalsies run out of EDM)

Motte (not the Clamato)

 

Somebody is suggesting Tyson Barrie, and considering the source I laughed.  But.....

There's nothing wrong with these players, just surprising they went there.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

So the Flames have the most cap avaiable with 21/23 players.

You can see it as a tank team or a team done with spending to the cap for nothing.

It may be nice to take on some bad contract right now, but I would suggest keeping about 14M of it.

Teams can get desperate when they need someone to take cap at TDL in the middle of a deal.

It doesn't always turn into something major, but if you only hold a contract for a few months, it's just money.

Not that much of it when you compare to Lucic.

 

Right now there may be some sleepr players avaiable in FA.

They aren't going to get the 7 year deal for $1 B.

Kylington may have to lower what he wants.

That's not even the best player to consider.

 

There are some guys available that may be good on short term deal.

Or we add them to maximize their value to us ling term (24 or less).

Roslovic

Boqvist

Kubalik

Sprong

Zadina

 

It's a mixed bag there.  I don't pretend to know the issue with Roslovic.  Not old by any stretch.  Just ideas.  

 

Best strategy here is to wait until final week of the summer and see who is still out there without a team.  Then hit them with a 1-year prove it deal (tell them in advance they are a TDL asset and will be traded to a contender).  Those players have little choice but to take the deal and play their hearts out.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

So the Flames have the most cap avaiable with 21/23 players.

You can see it as a tank team or a team done with spending to the cap for nothing.

It may be nice to take on some bad contract right now, but I would suggest keeping about 14M of it.

Teams can get desperate when they need someone to take cap at TDL in the middle of a deal.

It doesn't always turn into something major, but if you only hold a contract for a few months, it's just money.

Not that much of it when you compare to Lucic.

 

Right now there may be some sleepr players avaiable in FA.

They aren't going to get the 7 year deal for $1 B.

Kylington may have to lower what he wants.

That's not even the best player to consider.

 

There are some guys available that may be good on short term deal.

Or we add them to maximize their value to us ling term (24 or less).

Roslovic

Boqvist

Kubalik

Sprong

Zadina

 

It's a mixed bag there.  I don't pretend to know the issue with Roslovic.  Not old by any stretch.  Just ideas.  

Unless hes matured since his tenure in Winnipeg then attitude that his stats cant back up is the likely culprit. Seemed to show potential but declared he should be higher up in the lineup. Got sent to CBJ with Laine and has been 31 flavors of meh since. Definitely steer clear.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 minute ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Unless hes matured since his tenure in Winnipeg then attitude that his stats cant back up is the likely culprit. Seemed to show potential but declared he should be higher up in the lineup. Got sent to CBJ with Laine and has been 31 flavors of meh since. Definitely steer clear.

A bit late to @conundrumed query (gone fishin' no cell) but this should answer that one also.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Dude, can you explain what DET is doing this year?

Tarasenko

Kane

Dries

Snively (School of Rock?  That's Schnee-blee).

Campbell

Talbot (2 goalsies run out of EDM)

Motte (not the Clamato)

 

Somebody is suggesting Tyson Barrie, and considering the source I laughed.  But.....

There's nothing wrong with these players, just surprising they went there.

And Gustavson.

Love the Tarasenko and Talbot signings. Talbot's underrated. Moved Fabbri's $4mil off the books. Snively's an A signing. Fischer re-signed, so him and Motte should be an annoying 4th line.

Pretty tidy business trying to improve areas without breaking the bank. Both Husso and Lyon were run into the ground in consecutive years so depth at G is important.

Now if they signed Barrie I'd be annoyed.

By all accounts, a deal was in place for Trouba, with the NYR retaining $2.5, but seems to have vanished.

Free agency isn't done until Stevie says it is. lol

[phoenix66]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

And Gustavson.

Love the Tarasenko and Talbot signings. Talbot's underrated. Moved Fabbri's $4mil off the books. Snively's an A signing. Fischer re-signed, so him and Motte should be an annoying 4th line.

Pretty tidy business trying to improve areas without breaking the bank. Both Husso and Lyon were run into the ground in consecutive years so depth at G is important.

Now if they signed Barrie I'd be annoyed.

By all accounts, a deal was in place for Trouba, with the NYR retaining $2.5, but seems to have vanished.

Free agency isn't done until Stevie says it is. lol

They are definitely throwing darts at the wall in an attempt to be a playoff team. Stevie is getting impatient .

I'd be all for Calgary taking a swing at Barrie . PP specialist .. Connie says Bean is the response to Kyllington not being signed ..but I'd say Barrie would be a better replacement. 

I actually think Detroit is where kylly will end up.. or Utah .

 

Speaking of Kyllington..anybody else think he's getting really bad advice ? ..word is the Flames offer is higher than what they gave Bean.. the apparent snag is over both $ and term..

I mean..love the guy.. love the story .he's absolutely earned a contract and a raise .. but .. hard truth is .. he developed slow.. was a tweener before having his breakout season, next to the Dman Whisperer Tanev then didn't play for a season and a half . Came back , and yes, by the end of the season looked like he hadnt been away.. but also looked like he missed Tanev 

He owes Calgary nothing.. but they owe him nothing either .. I think a 2 yr deal makes absolute sense ..maybe a 3 to get the $up and keep the aav lower .. 

I can't see another team offering more than that .. but to hear Conroy talk it almost sounds like bridges are getting burned so he could realistically end up having to  take less to play somehwhere else now 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Unless hes matured since his tenure in Winnipeg then attitude that his stats cant back up is the likely culprit. Seemed to show potential but declared he should be higher up in the lineup. Got sent to CBJ with Laine and has been 31 flavors of meh since. Definitely steer clear.

 

We tend to stay away from players that have a history, where EDM welcomes them.  In most cases I can think of, Flames set players straight.  Neal is the one caviat to that.  But it becomes a team thing here.  Then again we have only a couple of players from the last time Gaudreau and Tkachuk played here.

 

My interest in Roslovic dated back to when he was rising in WPG.  Then the stories started.  My interest now is that he's a bit of a project but may have top 6 potential at C.  If we weren't so thin there I wouldn't bother.  I didn't see many UFA's at that age or younger that had decent stats as a C.  But maybe that's the best place to look; a young C who was moved to depth winger or doesn't fit the system they played.  FA is sprinkled with a lot of 30's players.  There is almost no C's available.

 

Perhaps the best course is a trade.  Coleman is nearing the part of his career where he has just a few good seasons left.  Like a Tanev where you love the guy but need him to help you in the playoffs.  More likely a TDL move.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

They are definitely throwing darts at the wall in an attempt to be a playoff team. Stevie is getting impatient .

I'd be all for Calgary taking a swing at Barrie . PP specialist .. Connie says Bean is the response to Kyllington not being signed ..but I'd say Barrie would be a better replacement. 

I actually think Detroit is where kylly will end up.. or Utah .

 

Speaking of Kyllington..anybody else think he's getting really bad advice ? ..word is the Flames offer is higher than what they gave Bean.. the apparent snag is over both $ and term..

I mean..love the guy.. love the story .he's absolutely earned a contract and a raise .. but .. hard truth is .. he developed slow.. was a tweener before having his breakout season, next to the Dman Whisperer Tanev then didn't play for a season and a half . Came back , and yes, by the end of the season looked like he hadnt been away.. but also looked like he missed Tanev 

He owes Calgary nothing.. but they owe him nothing either .. I think a 2 yr deal makes absolute sense ..maybe a 3 to get the $up and keep the aav lower .. 

I can't see another team offering more than that .. but to hear Conroy talk it almost sounds like bridges are getting burned so he could realistically end up having to  take less to play somehwhere else now 

 

I think the issue with him is the one he has had his entire time here.  They see him as a 5/6 and he feels he is a 3/4.  Sutter had used him as a 3/4.  But he got closer to 5/6 level minutes.  Huska only had him late season, so the die was cast.  He still only got 5/6 after Tanev and Hanifin trades.  

 

UNfortunately, the only place he has a chance of proving he is a 3/4 is Calgary.  Teams where he would help already have top 4's.  Utah is trying to get in the playoffs so they tend to be going with a good top 4.  Whatever the offer is from CGY, he may be better off here.  I doubt the likes of Bean, Hanley, Pachal, etc play better than him.  When we lost Hanifin's skating, he should have been a shoo0in for top minutes.  Huska seems to have believed that Kylington was only good because of Tanev.  Which is funny because that's really the only place that Hanifin made his bones.