Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[cross16]

What the heck are the Caps doing here...

 

 

[The_People1]

 

[manu12]

 Probably a late first in 2025 for our 34 year old starter sounds like one of the better deals from Conroy. The addition of Bahl doesn't really make much sense at fist, unless they think that nobody in the AHL (Solovyov, Kuznetsov, etc.) is ready for a bottom pairing role.

[sak22]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

What the heck are the Caps doing here...

 

 

One for one that is horrible, zero retention.  Yikes.

[bosn111]

Bahl is a decent add, as he was playing up the lineup in Jersey due to injuries and was still putting up decent D numbers, just not O. He appears to be a very good bottom pair who can play up when needed and will only be 24 when the season starts. Still lots of room to develop and his size is something that puts him above Kuznetsov and Solovyov for bottom pair.

 

If Kylington doesn't re-sign for a variety of reasons, then that opens a spot for a different player to fill. Hanley and Bahl are both better bottom pair with 2nd pair spot duty. The Flames do not have an experienced LSD who is best suited for top or 2nd pair. Even if you put Weegar on the left side, you are still missing that ideal 2nd pair. Is Poirier ready for moving up? 

 

Brz likely needs a year with the Wranglers to learn a bit more of the team. Not ideal for bottom pair, he is being blocked by Andersson and Miromanov on the right side top 2 pairs. Andersson may be a TDL candidate if the Flames are out of playoffs for a late season BRZ call up.

[robrob74]

I think Pierre Luc Dubois is an entitled idiot. He plays an entitled game. So glad we didn't bet the farm on that guy.

 

The thinking is, addition through subtraction. But poor asset management for sure. Kind of like the stock market, they lost out on their investment. 

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

What the heck are the Caps doing here...

 

 

 

Holy wow.  Could LA have also asked for the rights to capfriendly and then made it public domain?

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think Pierre Luc Dubois is an entitled idiot. He plays an entitled game. So glad we didn't bet the farm on that guy.

 

The thinking is, addition through subtraction. But poor asset management for sure. Kind of like the stock market, they lost out on their investment. 

Dubois was the guy that CBJ wanted over Poolparty and Tkachuk.

I guess they never talked to him.

I guess this trade was the response to CGY trading to NJ.

Good thing we didn't bite on PLD being the return.

 

I'm a little miffed that we didn't ask about Ty Dellandrea.

Wasn't exactly lighting it up, but Dallas game is weird.

Nichushkin never did much there either.

[phoenix66]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

What the heck are the Caps doing here...

 

 

Cap dump and they expect to lose one of their goalies at least ..

Dubois had a no trade kicking in next week 

 

Safe to say how quick it happened after the Marky trade that's who LA was dangling at us ...  If so glad we said no thanks ...If Marky would have even accepted going there at all anyway 

[phoenix66]

When anybody else wants to complain about Flames management . Just remember ..could be worse ..🤣🤣

 

 

 

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, manu12 said:

 Probably a late first in 2025 for our 34 year old starter sounds like one of the better deals from Conroy. The addition of Bahl doesn't really make much sense at fist, unless they think that nobody in the AHL (Solovyov, Kuznetsov, etc.) is ready for a bottom pairing role.

 

We might not bring back Kylington so that means one of Solovyov or Kuznetsov could still graduate to the team next season.  Maybe Bahl has to play 2nd pair.

[manu12]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We might not bring back Kylington so that means one of Solovyov or Kuznetsov could still graduate to the team next season.  Maybe Bahl has to play 2nd pair.

What's the deal with Kylington? I'm really not up to date on that topic and thought his re-signing was all but safe. Especially after all the help he received from the Flames?

IMO even with a re-signed Kylington we need another top4 D, Bahl ain't one as far as i know. And I also don't think that Miromanov is one, at least not right now.

[The_People1]

51 minutes ago, manu12 said:

What's the deal with Kylington? I'm really not up to date on that topic and thought his re-signing was all but safe. Especially after all the help he received from the Flames?

IMO even with a re-signed Kylington we need another top4 D, Bahl ain't one as far as i know. And I also don't think that Miromanov is one, at least not right now.

 

What even is Kylington?  I think he came back from injury and hasn't been the same.  He's 27 and it's probably better to give the ice time to Solovyov or Kuznetsov who are both younger.

[bosn111]

Kylington is a big question mark. There really is no inside information on what he is looking for or things that the Flames organization are trying to determine with respect to him. Thinking logically about it, we can consider a few possibilities.

 

From the Kylington perspective:

 

Does he want to play in the NHL or does he want to sign in Europe? NHL likely pays more, but Europe would be closer to his family support.

 

If the NHL is his intent, what price and term is he willing to sign for?

 

Does he want a contract with term for stability? OR does he want a prove it contract to get paid more long term?

 

What environment does he want to play in? Does he want a high stress, Canadian market team? Does he want to go somewhere out of the limelight (Utah, Anaheim etc.)? Does he want to be part of a rebuild (Calgary)? Does he want to play for a contender?

 

As a UFA, it is up to him to make any and all of the decisions above. They may even be more options for him to consider, but those are some bug ones.

 

 

From a Flames Organization perspective:

 

Kylington missed a year and a half for mental health reasons and still got paid. Do they want to risk that possibility again on another contract with term / dollar value?

 

Does Kylington move the team in the direction they want to go? Does he fit the style they want to play?

 

What dollar value do they put on him as a player and what he brings to the team?

 

Do they sign him to term or just a show me contract?

 

All of these are valid reasons why there may be no contract coming from the Flames. 

 

 

Kylington simply may have different ideas for himself than what the team is looking for. There may not be any animosity between the 2, simply 2 entities moving in different directions. You likely don't see anything in the news as neither one likely feels betrayed by the other, or really wants to get a deal done, it simply is not fitting and both sides may agree.

 

Honestly I am not sure if Kylington should be a long term plan for the Flames. Sure this leaves a gap in the D at the top end, but there are short term possibilities to fill in, or use this opportunity to let the young guys step in and earn their time.

 

I wish Kylington only good things for his future, though that may not include playing another game for the Flames.

[Thebrewcrew]

Hard to see this as anything other than a rebuild. 

 

At some point this season, I think it's worth having the Rasmus Andersson conversation. Really like the player, not sure he's worth signing from age 30-38 though. If a team can get two playoff runs with him at 4.55, I think that would be highly coveted.

 

Unlike Markstrom and Hanifin deals, I think Conroy could do quite well in an Andersson trade. There are only six teams Andersson can block a trade to. Conroy can essentially work with the entire league. Think it'd be smart to move him this year. If they wait until his walk year, you run the risk of a Hanifin situation, where the player can pick his spot, despite not having a NMC. 

 

Still think it's going to be a busy season for Conroy. Think there are Mangiapane and Kuzmenko deals to be made. Think they'll try to sign Sharangovich. If not, I think he could be sought after.

 

The way out of this is going to be through the draft. They certainly have a lot of swings in 2024, with potentially more move this  season, I think they'll have some opportunities in 2025 as well. 

[robrob74]

16 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hard to see this as anything other than a rebuild. 

 

At some point this season, I think it's worth having the Rasmus Andersson conversation. Really like the player, not sure he's worth signing from age 30-38 though. If a team can get two playoff runs with him at 4.55, I think that would be highly coveted.

 

Unlike Markstrom and Hanifin deals, I think Conroy could do quite well in an Andersson trade. There are only six teams Andersson can block a trade to. Conroy can essentially work with the entire league. Think it'd be smart to move him this year. If they wait until his walk year, you run the risk of a Hanifin situation, where the player can pick his spot, despite not having a NMC. 

 

Still think it's going to be a busy season for Conroy. Think there are Mangiapane and Kuzmenko deals to be made. Think they'll try to sign Sharangovich. If not, I think he could be sought after.

 

The way out of this is going to be through the draft. They certainly have a lot of swings in 2024, with potentially more move this  season, I think they'll have some opportunities in 2025 as well. 

I don't think the Markstrom and Hanifin deals were all that bad. I think media was pushing the get more train and guys like Seravelli were tempering the expectations. I was excited at the thought of more, but admit it was on the backs of fans expectations and the media, rumoured of Holtz and Mercer. Jersey wasn't doing it. 
 

I would have done Coronato and Markstrom for Mercer, myself, but who knows if jersey does that even.... 

[The_People1]

35 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hard to see this as anything other than a rebuild. 

 

At some point this season, I think it's worth having the Rasmus Andersson conversation. Really like the player, not sure he's worth signing from age 30-38 though. If a team can get two playoff runs with him at 4.55, I think that would be highly coveted.

 

Unlike Markstrom and Hanifin deals, I think Conroy could do quite well in an Andersson trade. There are only six teams Andersson can block a trade to. Conroy can essentially work with the entire league. Think it'd be smart to move him this year. If they wait until his walk year, you run the risk of a Hanifin situation, where the player can pick his spot, despite not having a NMC. 

 

Still think it's going to be a busy season for Conroy. Think there are Mangiapane and Kuzmenko deals to be made. Think they'll try to sign Sharangovich. If not, I think he could be sought after.

 

The way out of this is going to be through the draft. They certainly have a lot of swings in 2024, with potentially more move this  season, I think they'll have some opportunities in 2025 as well. 

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think the Markstrom and Hanifin deals were all that bad. I think media was pushing the get more train and guys like Seravelli were tempering the expectations. I was excited at the thought of more, but admit it was on the backs of fans expectations and the media, rumoured of Holtz and Mercer. Jersey wasn't doing it. 
 

I would have done Coronato and Markstrom for Mercer, myself, but who knows if jersey does that even.... 

Conroy has said that the Hanifin deal, in particular, was very tough. Wasn't quite as simple as "take the best offer". Some fans don't acknowledge that though.

 

Conroy also said the Lindholm deal was pretty straight forward. Of course, Lindholm didn't have an NTC. Calgary could deal him to wherever the best deal was. I think you could do that with Andersson.

 

With Markstrom, he's right around the same age as Smith, when the Flames acquired him. The Flames gave up very little, a 3rd and a D prospect that never made it. If you compare Smith and Markstrom through age 33, you can argue the better goalie is Smith. It just puts into perspective that this is a good return for the Flames, because goalies don't usually get traded for much. Vegas traded Fleury, coming off a Vezina, for nothing.

[travel_dude]

I don't get the Kylington hate.  The guy was off the ice for two seasons and came back looking like he had skated the entire time.  I did find his balance a little off, but that's normal.  Had no training camp. little actual practice with this team, and still played as a capable 5/6, if not that being just used to partner.  

 

I think the Flames are just in the mode of pricing out the D.  Hanley was okay.  Pachal was good.  But they are 6/7 on good teams.  They are cheap, but we probably want one of them to be a 7 and the other in the AHL.  So that means a 4/5 so that we can align the pairs the best, assuming we sign Kylington.  He's due a minor raise but we lost most of two years at current salary.  He probably wants stability of a longer term salary but the Flames are nervous about it.  You don't want to build out your D a certain way and lose the player to NHL PA again.  2 years may be all they are willing to do right now.  

[phoenix66]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I don't get the Kylington hate.  The guy was off the ice for two seasons and came back looking like he had skated the entire time.  I did find his balance a little off, but that's normal.  Had no training camp. little actual practice with this team, and still played as a capable 5/6, if not that being just used to partner.  

 

I think the Flames are just in the mode of pricing out the D.  Hanley was okay.  Pachal was good.  But they are 6/7 on good teams.  They are cheap, but we probably want one of them to be a 7 and the other in the AHL.  So that means a 4/5 so that we can align the pairs the best, assuming we sign Kylington.  He's due a minor raise but we lost most of two years at current salary.  He probably wants stability of a longer term salary but the Flames are nervous about it.  You don't want to build out your D a certain way and lose the player to NHL PA again.  2 years may be all they are willing to do right now.  

Agreed , kyllington will be just fine..  Conroy said yesterday talks are going with his camp.. it's a process but they're working to get him signed..he doesn't see any issues .

 

I'm starting to understand his trades a little more . They all included young D ..but with the exception of  the Brz kid .. they are all NHL ready.  Dmen take the longest to develop of the skaters . With very few exceptions you can expect around 5 years to get a drafted D Into your regular lineup . Forwards make the jump a lot quicker . This is how you accelerate the process,.by adding young talented D that some other team has put the 4-5 year development wait into. 

 

While I'm sure there will be some D and I expect BPA, I also expect a majority of our picks this year will be forwards 

[conundrumed]

Solid return for Markstrom. I always believed those who thought it could involve this year's 10th oa were living in fantasy land, or wanted to attach more to overpay for 10th oa. No one wants to rush a rebuild until a draft is approaching, then it's, "sell everyone, everyday, for everything".

 

We're getting sizeable on D. Girls always told me size doesn't matter unless you're a defenceman.

[phoenix66]

42 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Solid return for Markstrom. I always believed those who thought it could involve this year's 10th oa were living in fantasy land, or wanted to attach more to overpay for 10th oa. No one wants to rush a rebuild until a draft is approaching, then it's, "sell everyone, everyday, for everything".

 

We're getting sizeable on D. Girls always told me size doesn't matter unless you're a defenceman.

I was obviously in the camp of get an overpay or just don't trade him.. but I can concede if they felt they "had" to trade him then it's solid .  As ha been mentioned , you could compare Markstrom to Smith when we acquired him ..still prime , top level but 35 .. and we paid much less ..  outside of Schneider the last time a goalie trade involved a first was Ryan Miller ..so all things being equal we did ok.. 

 

But you are right.. social media especially.. it's like a Lynch mob with pitchforks now .. Anderson , Coleman, kyllington.. everybody is being moved out . Calm down people 

 

I suspect there is going to be an aneurysm epidemic when July 1 hits and they see who we spend money on and reality hits that this team wants playoffs 

 

Besides ..as it sits .. from what I've been able to determine and glean from breakdowns.. If our pick is not #1 next year it goes to Montreal..so may as well try and make that pick as bad as possible 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Solid return for Markstrom. I always believed those who thought it could involve this year's 10th oa were living in fantasy land, or wanted to attach more to overpay for 10th oa. No one wants to rush a rebuild until a draft is approaching, then it's, "sell everyone, everyday, for everything".

 

We're getting sizeable on D. Girls always told me size doesn't matter unless you're a defenceman.

 

Be fair bro.  Some of us have wanted a rebuild before the puck even dropped to start last season.

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I was obviously in the camp of get an overpay or just don't trade him.. but I can concede if they felt they "had" to trade him then it's solid .  As ha been mentioned , you could compare Markstrom to Smith when we acquired him ..still prime , top level but 35 .. and we paid much less ..  outside of Schneider the last time a goalie trade involved a first was Ryan Miller ..so all things being equal we did ok.. 

 

But you are right.. social media especially.. it's like a Lynch mob with pitchforks now .. Anderson , Coleman, kyllington.. everybody is being moved out . Calm down people 

 

I suspect there is going to be an aneurysm epidemic when July 1 hits and they see who we spend money on and reality hits that this team wants playoffs 

 

Besides ..as it sits .. from what I've been able to determine and glean from breakdowns.. If our pick is not #1 next year it goes to Montreal..so may as well try and make that pick as bad as possible 

 

I take a different view than the bolded.  Our timeline for needing a goalie at the end of a good career is not now.  He would have helped a team like EDM in the early part of the season, or Toronto in the playoffs.  Or NJ getting there.  Win now teams.  Door open for a couple years.  

 

Had we traded him at TDL, I don't think we would be much different in final ranking.  We went 7-13-0 after TDL with Markstrom.  NJ would have included a goalie.  Would the combo of Vladar, Wolf and said goalie have gotten us a better 1st round draft order?  

 

Anyway that is just speculation.  I don't see the need to have JM through the next 2 years.  At best he would only protect us from the top 10 in drafting.  This is the best year for us to drop to bottom 10 teams in the league, as it means we just give them FLA's pick.  We end up 11th and we lose the 11th overall pick.

[phoenix66]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

  This is the best year for us to drop to bottom 10 teams in the league, as it means we just give them FLA's pick.  We end up 11th and we lose the 11th overall pick.

No, from what I was just hearing/ reading..  If our pick falls between 2-10, they get ours .. if it falls after 10 they get the better of ours and Florida..unless another clause kicks in on the Florida pick in which case it bumps to 2026 

The only way we make a top 10 pick next year is #1 or bust