2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

We are a bit far down for Buium too.  Silayev 6'-7" unicorn and all time highest 17-year-old scorer in the NHL.  And Parekh's game breaking offence and RHS.

 

But some may say we are too far down for Iginla and Catton as well.  But at the end of the day, math.  We are 9th.  Someone has to fall to us.

 

Bigger question is, if Dickinson is there at 9/10, then would you blow all our assets in one draft for him and make the NJD trade?  

If he's there at 9, I'm racing to the podium. That is, if I didn't have a heart attack first. lol

Then I don't care about 10.

Then I can crush #28, or consider trying to move that pick up 10 spots. If I can't, I'm golden and targeting Dickie's teammate at 28 or 41.

The 2 top players next year for the Hunter squad, and I'm laughing.

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

If he's there at 9, I'm racing to the podium. That is, if I didn't have a heart attack first. lol

Then I don't care about 10.

Then I can crush #28, or consider trying to move that pick up 10 spots. If I can't, I'm golden and targeting Dickie's teammate at 28 or 41.

The 2 top players next year for the Hunter squad, and I'm laughing.

 

Would DET do Markstrom + 28th for the 15?  Maybe Jiricek is still there.  Or Greentree, Yakemchuk, Sennecke, etc.

[conundrumed]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Would DET do Markstrom + 28th for the 15?  Maybe Jiricek is still there.  Or Greentree, Yakemchuk, Sennecke, etc.

I kinda wish they would. The trade would likely be a bit of a variation of that, but that's the nuts and bolts.

The issues right now are:

1. Seider's contract

2. Raymond's contract

3. Greentree is right across the river in Windsor, so they could really be targeting him. It's almost too perfect for them to add Greentree to their prospect pool.

 

I'd be more inclined to offer 47oa and a D prospect. Take Husso back, and then consider retention, other pieces, etc.

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, MP5029 said:

TBH before I watched Lebrun after the Combine I’d have been 100% on board with the Smith comparison.

 

now I’m sure it’s higher, isn’t a top 10

pick…I doubt that too.  I think it’s something in between.

 

in a package deal where NJD keeps a late first I could see the 10th OA being an option.  Moreover, I could also see Mercer coming back in a package deal as long as your sending enough assets to cover their current needs, which are:

 

1. grit with scoring up front…Cgy has this in Manji

 

2. Another D, Cgy has this in a very attractive Anderson Who fills a top 4 D role and has experience yet still not terrible old. He’s an excellent fit.

 

3. Top goalie, also check in Markstrom, who’s very much considered by Broudeaur as the best in the NHL…although I’m not so confident he is, he at times Can be.

 

so add the VCR 1st as a sweetener I think Cgy could get:

 

1. mercer

2. 10 OA

3. Holtz 

 

this seems like A  fair return and addresses needs of each team.  unless you address the needs NJD has in one move I don’t think they move Mercer.

 

as to the 10 OA I think if you move Markstrom and the VCR pick I think that gets it done but unless a later 1st is included it’s not moving.  Also it needs to address one of their three needs.

 

 

What about doing, Pospisil OR MANGiapane, Markstrom, for 10overall and Holtz. 
 

I get you're looking for Mercer in the deal. I wonder if they

 

If they want the Vancouver pick, then I want more back. Would take a way bigger deal both ways to make it happen. I like Pospisil though.

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

What about doing, Pospisil OR MANGiapane, Markstrom, for 10overall and Holtz. 
 

I get you're looking for Mercer in the deal. I wonder if they

 

If they want the Vancouver pick, then I want more back. Would take a way bigger deal both ways to make it happen. I like Pospisil though.

I don't think Mang holds much swing even with retention, 2 consecutive years under 20 goals at 5.8 and on the last year of a deal and not someone I would be in a rush to extend.  NJ has their own problem with Palat making 6 and producing below even Mang, taking on Palat could be a consideration but he has full NMC.

 

People are too gung ho on this one pick and I don't get it.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

What about doing, Pospisil OR MANGiapane, Markstrom, for 10overall and Holtz. 
 

I get you're looking for Mercer in the deal. I wonder if they

 

If they want the Vancouver pick, then I want more back. Would take a way bigger deal both ways to make it happen. I like Pospisil though.

Yeah I'm not big on trading Pospisil. Solid rookie campaign so perhaps he's got more to increase his value? I believe he was a +14 on a pretty bad team, as a rookie.

I'd be happy to wait and see if he blossoms further. Had a fantastic WHC. I think there's more there as he matures his NHL game.

I just hate to see a guy called up, admirably earn a spot, then traded too soon. He's a mil, he's 24, what's the rush?

We're pretending we know his ceiling, rather than being patient.

The message is awful, imho.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, sak22 said:

People are too gung ho on this one pick and I don't get it.

It's been done to death. It would be nice to move along. Been stuck on Markstrom to NJ forever, and I think we've heard it all 20x over again.

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

People are too gung ho on this one pick and I don't get it.

 

Just now, conundrumed said:

It's been done to death. It would be nice to move along. Been stuck on Markstrom to NJ forever, and I think we've heard it all 20x over again.

 

Well exactly, it was a dead topic until Fitzgerald opened his mouth.  There are also rumours Conroy and Fitzgerald have restarted talks on Markstrom and so, it's a topic that's not going away until it either happens or the draft passes.

[conundrumed]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

 

Well exactly, it was a dead topic until Fitzgerald opened his mouth.  There are also rumours Conroy and Fitzgerald have restarted talks on Markstrom and so, it's a topic that's not going away until it either happens or the draft passes.

Okay. But there is nothing to discuss that hasn't been discussed 6 ways from Sunday. It's exhausting reading the same same repetition endlessly.

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah I'm not big on trading Pospisil. Solid rookie campaign so perhaps he's got more to increase his value? I believe he was a +14 on a pretty bad team, as a rookie.

I'd be happy to wait and see if he blossoms further. Had a fantastic WHC. I think there's more there as he matures his NHL game.

I just hate to see a guy called up, admirably earn a spot, then traded too soon. He's a mil, he's 24, what's the rush?

We're pretending we know his ceiling, rather than being patient.

The message is awful, imho.

 

But exactly Mange has no/low trade value.  NJD doesn't have a need for Kuzmenko, one dimensional forward.  They want a pest like Pospisil.  At $1-mil.  That's a steal for a Cup contender.

 

I like him too but I argue two things.

 

1. Injury concerns.  He almost killed himself at the WHC.  Like Ferland, he's going to be damaged goods very soon if not already.

 

2. He's peaking out of sync with the rest of the team.  We want to tankasaurus rekts next season.

[conundrumed]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

1. Injury concerns.  He almost killed himself at the WHC.  Like Ferland, he's going to be damaged goods very soon if not already.

He logged 77 competitive games last season. Suspended for a few more. You speak in absolutes. So that's kind of a problem if you're incorrect. As far as building goes, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. He's a young asset. 26-29 are prime. Then it's experience that keeps you humming along.

You're hell-bent on a reckless teardown, imho.

Come hell or high water. Full-on demo will take forever to come back from.

Nobody, but nobody, will play for you at market value. Now your issues are compounding.

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He logged 77 competitive games last season. Suspended for a few more. You speak in absolutes. So that's kind of a problem if you're incorrect. As far as building goes, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. He's a young asset. 26-29 are prime. Then it's experience that keeps you humming along.

You're hell-bent on a reckless teardown, imho.

Come hell or high water. Full-on demo will take forever to come back from.

Nobody, but nobody, will play for you at market value. Now your issues are compounding.

 

We are talking about an 8-goal scorer right now.  Let's relax.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He logged 77 competitive games last season. Suspended for a few more. You speak in absolutes. So that's kind of a problem if you're incorrect. As far as building goes, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. He's a young asset. 26-29 are prime. Then it's experience that keeps you humming along.

You're hell-bent on a reckless teardown, imho.

Come hell or high water. Full-on demo will take forever to come back from.

Nobody, but nobody, will play for you at market value. Now your issues are compounding.

 

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We are talking about an 8-goal scorer right now.  Let's relax.

 

I don't think you can only look at stats and declare a player a boom or bust.

He made lines he played on better.  

Concussions are a serious matter but he has been guarding against that.

Every player gets those or something equally serious, but it's not a trend.

His concussions have come from playing hard in the AHL.

Fought Cody Cave, so I think he should stay away from punches.

You don't have to fight like Rempe or Lucic to be important to the team.

That's for the $800k guys to do, if that's what we want.

 

As an individual asset, I don't know he holds a lot of value.

As a throw in, maybe we have others we could substitute.

 

[cberg]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah I'm not big on trading Pospisil. Solid rookie campaign so perhaps he's got more to increase his value? I believe he was a +14 on a pretty bad team, as a rookie.

I'd be happy to wait and see if he blossoms further. Had a fantastic WHC. I think there's more there as he matures his NHL game.

I just hate to see a guy called up, admirably earn a spot, then traded too soon. He's a mil, he's 24, what's the rush?

We're pretending we know his ceiling, rather than being patient.

The message is awful, imho.

Yes, absolutely, plus he’s physical and a disruptor.  Once you trade him you are desperate to find another guy just like him.  Pospisil is on the no trade list for me.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah I'm not big on trading Pospisil. Solid rookie campaign so perhaps he's got more to increase his value? I believe he was a +14 on a pretty bad team, as a rookie.

I'd be happy to wait and see if he blossoms further. Had a fantastic WHC. I think there's more there as he matures his NHL game.

I just hate to see a guy called up, admirably earn a spot, then traded too soon. He's a mil, he's 24, what's the rush?

We're pretending we know his ceiling, rather than being patient.

The message is awful, imho.

im not really either. But i also didn't want to trade Ferland

[conundrumed]

16 hours ago, cberg said:

Yes, absolutely, plus he’s physical and a disruptor.  Once you trade him you are desperate to find another guy just like him.  Pospisil is on the no trade list for me.

I may trade Pospisil down the road, but you can't call a guy up (much to everyone's surprise), he performs really, really well, then you trade him as a throw in? That is horrible optics. Particularly that he was even better at the WHC. He was the leading scorer through the first 3 games. To say, "he's an injury risk", I'm not gonna buy that. Every vet will tell you, the biggest lesson is learning the ice, the whens and whys. He might just do that, we don't know.

Give him a chance. Every team likes/hates that kind of player.

Imagine if we still had Tkachuk and Bennett, and add him.

We'd be the biggest bunch of prix that ever pricked. lol

[Thebrewcrew]

I'm really surprised at some of the lists and mocks coming out that have Silayev ending up closer to 10th than 5th.

 

NHL teams value him more than the public, I think.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the evaluations of Elite Prospects, but I do like that they ask scouts/execs for input on prospects. Elite Prospects has him 12th. The feedback they got from scouts doesn't align with that at all. I know they are only talking to a handful of scouts, at most. When teams are viewing him as Hedman, I don't see him sliding. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'm really surprised at some of the lists and mocks coming out that have Silayev ending up closer to 10th than 5th.

 

NHL teams value him more than the public, I think.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the evaluations of Elite Prospects, but I do like that they ask scouts/execs for input on prospects. Elite Prospects has him 12th. The feedback they got from scouts doesn't align with that at all. I know they are only talking to a handful of scouts, at most. When teams are viewing him as Hedman, I don't see him sliding. 

 

Bigger question is, if Silayev is still available at 10, then do you make the NJD trade?

 

Keks, nevermind.

 

I'm not too surprised myself because all reports are, Silayev is all D and very little O.  He scored like 5-points in his first 5-games or something and then 6-points the final 50+ games.  His highlight package also doesn't even show stellar defending IQ.  He takes the wrong angles often and relies on being 6'-7" to recover.  He's spoiled by his size and his IQ is more Zadorov than Hedman.  Silayev also loves to carry the puck up the ice but like Zadorov, just skates into dead ends and he gets caught up ice.

 

But like all prospects, these warts can be fixed before the NHL and Silayev has all the tools to become a stud D.  But he feels like a project.  Dickinson and Buium are more refined already.  And Parekh is way more gifted offensively than Silayev.  

[cberg]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Bigger question is, if Silayev is still available at 10, then do you make the NJD trade?

 

Keks, nevermind.

 

I'm not too surprised myself because all reports are, Silayev is all D and very little O.  He scored like 5-points in his first 5-games or something and then 6-points the final 50+ games.  His highlight package also doesn't even show stellar defending IQ.  He takes the wrong angles often and relies on being 6'-7" to recover.  He's spoiled by his size and his IQ is more Zadorov than Hedman.  Silayev also loves to carry the puck up the ice but like Zadorov, just skates into dead ends and he gets caught up ice.

 

But like all prospects, these warts can be fixed before the NHL and Silayev has all the tools to become a stud D.  But he feels like a project.  Dickinson and Buium are more refined already.  And Parekh is way more gifted offensively than Silayev.  

Bigger question is, if he is available at #9, do you take him?  I’ve read his skating is very high end, and remember, even with the KHL stats you quoted, he set a record for a 17yo.  If available I believe it would be worth a shot.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I may trade Pospisil down the road, but you can't call a guy up (much to everyone's surprise), he performs really, really well, then you trade him as a throw in? That is horrible optics. Particularly that he was even better at the WHC. He was the leading scorer through the first 3 games. To say, "he's an injury risk", I'm not gonna buy that. Every vet will tell you, the biggest lesson is learning the ice, the whens and whys. He might just do that, we don't know.

Give him a chance. Every team likes/hates that kind of player.

Imagine if we still had Tkachuk and Bennett, and add him.

We'd be the biggest bunch of prix that ever pricked. lol

 

I'm glad you are willing to trade him though.  It's just not the right time.  When next TDL comes around and the Flames are a lottery team and contenders come calling for a late 1st.. then it would be better optics.

 

But man, we could've had Silayev at 10oa, right?

 

The Flames have shown an ability to find these gems like Ferland.  Another will emerge in about 5 years when we are playoff ready.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, cberg said:

Bigger question is, if he is available at #9, do you take him?  I’ve read his skating is very high end, and remember, even with the KHL stats you quoted, he set a record for a 17yo.  If available I believe it would be worth a shot.

 

At #9, I'm taking Tij tho.  Or Dickinson.

 

And that's the thing, two prospects could be had 9/10!!

 

We will eventually trade the whole farm anyways but you guys don't want to trade the whole farm all at once for something good.  You want to slow bleed for a bigger quantity of low percentage picks.

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[Thebrewcrew]

I’m thinking the Flames will take a look at Emery at 28th. If he’s even still available. Iginla has a lot of familiarity with the player too.

 

The merits of picking a player with zero goals in his draft eligible season will be debated, I’m sure .

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I’m thinking the Flames will take a look at Emery at 28th. If he’s even still available. Iginla has a lot of familiarity with the player too.

 

The merits of picking a player with zero goals in his draft eligible season will be debated, I’m sure .

I’m thinking Cgy moves the 28th pick to grab another top 10…obviously someone is on the move for that to happen but that’s the play I see Conroy trying to make…

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Who did Cgy take

to dinner? Tij? 🙏🙏🤞🤞