2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[robrob74]

I've seen a few mock drafts that have tij going 13 or 14 overall. I think it was Hockey Writers and another, so I don't know how in tune they are in the hockey world. The sites saw tend to regurgitate hockey info and use as click bait. 
 

I'd be up for the flames getting Iginla, but would like to eye a C or D. I'm with peeps, getting another top 10 or 11 pick would be good idea.

[sak22]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

I've seen a few mock drafts that have tij going 13 or 14 overall. I think it was Hockey Writers and another, so I don't know how in tune they are in the hockey world. The sites saw tend to regurgitate hockey info and use as click bait. 
 

I'd be up for the flames getting Iginla, but would like to eye a C or D. I'm with peeps, getting another top 10 or 11 pick would be good idea.

I don't think anyone is debating against that, I just don't think the Flames have the pieces to get another high pick and I don't think adding pieces that could fetch several assets just to move up from #28 is a great strategy either.  I really don't think teams are passing up a chance of a young dman with upside over a guy like Andersson who is soon to be 28 and has shown year over year regression, could still get good assets for him but not in the top half.  

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't think anyone is debating against that, I just don't think the Flames have the pieces to get another high pick and I don't think adding pieces that could fetch several assets just to move up from #28 is a great strategy either.  I really don't think teams are passing up a chance of a young dman with upside over a guy like Andersson who is soon to be 28 and has shown year over year regression, could still get good assets for him but not in the top half.  

 

I think it would have to be a package that gets it done. 

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it would have to be a package that gets it done. 

The thing is, we can do that in future drafts if need be. The necessity likely isn't this draft. We have 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds. We don't need to re-invent the wheel, not in this draft. Just make your selections and move forward.

Can make deals going forward, there really isn't a reason to blow your load in one, pretty average, draft.

There really isn't a dying need to draft Tij Iginla. Honestly, he could be a Max Domi at best. We just kinda don't wanna believe it.

Getting caught up in that stuff is a mistake. Every team ahead is going to signal they're taking him just to test your desperation. I'm sure they'll poke at it, just in case.

We don't need to get fancy.

[sak22]

29 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it would have to be a package that gets it done. 

That's where I'd be lost on someone like Andersson.  On his own I think he can fetch 3 assets, not top of the draft quality but still decent, package him with another asset or assets to gain something in a lower guarantee range  makes no sense to me.  3 months ago people were desperate to get into the top 5 because they didn't feel outside of that was a good place to be, now people think we are going to find our new franchise cornerstones with 2 or 3 picks outside that.  Right now the fanbase is a little too drunk on this draft, I will guarantee 5 or 6 in the top 15 will not live up to what people currently project on many.  Personally I'd like to look into next draft as they only have 6 picks at the moment.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

That's where I'd be lost on someone like Andersson.  On his own I think he can fetch 3 assets, not top of the draft quality but still decent, package him with another asset or assets to gain something in a lower guarantee range  makes no sense to me.  3 months ago people were desperate to get into the top 5 because they didn't feel outside of that was a good place to be, now people think we are going to find our new franchise cornerstones with 2 or 3 picks outside that.  Right now the fanbase is a little too drunk on this draft, I will guarantee 5 or 6 in the top 15 will not live up to what people currently project on many.  Personally I'd like to look into next draft as they only have 6 picks at the moment.

 

I am just seeing it as a good place to gain a decent D and C and have them develop in a time when the team will actually compete again. 

 

That also makes it possible to gain a top 5 pick in next year's draft as the team might be a bit worse next season without Andersson.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

That's where I'd be lost on someone like Andersson.  On his own I think he can fetch 3 assets, not top of the draft quality but still decent, package him with another asset or assets to gain something in a lower guarantee range  makes no sense to me.  3 months ago people were desperate to get into the top 5 because they didn't feel outside of that was a good place to be, now people think we are going to find our new franchise cornerstones with 2 or 3 picks outside that.  Right now the fanbase is a little too drunk on this draft, I will guarantee 5 or 6 in the top 15 will not live up to what people currently project on many.  Personally I'd like to look into next draft as they only have 6 picks at the moment.

We're on the same wavelength, and I love when someone says it much better than I do.

Just don't be flattered much, most folks say it better than I do. lol

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Really just highlighted Reggie and Leopold just to mention the balance. 

 

Agreed.  That's the thing with RHS RD.  If you don't draft them then you won't have any.  Or you will have to overpay in the trade market because every team doesn't have enough.  Or overpay in UFA because agents know RHS RD is in high demand.

 

Anyways, just don't be like OTT and BUF... Coming out of a rebuild with no RHS RD and the whole D group is out of balance.  If Elick has 10-15 year NHL potential as a 2nd pairing shut down D, sometimes you have to hold your nose and reach for it.  Pass on a more offensive LHS player.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.  That's the thing with RHS RD.  If you don't draft them then you won't have any.  Or you will have to overpay in the trade market because every team doesn't have enough.  Or overpay in UFA because agents know RHS RD is in high demand.

 

Anyways, just don't be like OTT and BUF... Coming out of a rebuild with no RHS RD and the whole D group is out of balance.  If Elick has 10-15 year NHL potential as a 2nd pairing shut down D, sometimes you have to hold your nose and reach for it.  Pass on a more offensive LHS player.

 

Maybe Elick is available in the 2nd round? Never know how these guys will rise or fall in the order. 

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If Elick has 10-15 year NHL potential as a 2nd pairing shut down D

By Elick, do you mean anyone? lol

[The_People1]

Just now, conundrumed said:

By Elick, do you mean anyone? lol

 

I mean specifically RHS RD with size and defense.  Shut down type.  And I first mentioned Elick mainly because he's born in Calgary.  He presumably wouldn't be a flight risk like US born players.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

We're on the same wavelength, and I love when someone says it much better than I do.

Just don't be flattered much, most folks say it better than I do. lol

 

Yup, I am not trying to jump too many guns. I guess I am just saying, sacrifice some of the core now to build for 3-4 years down the road. Maybe Andersson fetches Ottawa's next year's First if they have it, instead of this year's? 

And really, just for conversations sake. Just wanna build depth if that's what this draft will be.

 

Could the draft be better than it is touted? These kids are just at the end of Covid? Maybe there's still room for development to catch up to times they missed during Covid.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

That's where I'd be lost on someone like Andersson.  On his own I think he can fetch 3 assets, not top of the draft quality but still decent, package him with another asset or assets to gain something in a lower guarantee range  makes no sense to me.  3 months ago people were desperate to get into the top 5 because they didn't feel outside of that was a good place to be, now people think we are going to find our new franchise cornerstones with 2 or 3 picks outside that.  Right now the fanbase is a little too drunk on this draft, I will guarantee 5 or 6 in the top 15 will not live up to what people currently project on many.  Personally I'd like to look into next draft as they only have 6 picks at the moment.

 

Trading Andersson to BUF or OTT for next year's 1st might be a sneaky good gamble for us.  Both teams likely feel they are on the up and up.  Playoff bound.  Especially with Andersson added to their D.  Maybe top 5 protected... Otherwise, we should do it if they would.  If they don't solve their G this summer then they are certainly missing the playoffs again.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

That's where I'd be lost on someone like Andersson.  On his own I think he can fetch 3 assets, not top of the draft quality but still decent, package him with another asset or assets to gain something in a lower guarantee range  makes no sense to me.  3 months ago people were desperate to get into the top 5 because they didn't feel outside of that was a good place to be, now people think we are going to find our new franchise cornerstones with 2 or 3 picks outside that.  Right now the fanbase is a little too drunk on this draft, I will guarantee 5 or 6 in the top 15 will not live up to what people currently project on many.  Personally I'd like to look into next draft as they only have 6 picks at the moment.

 

You can build a decent team over the years through making good choices with picks.  But you can be in a perpetual holding pattern by only being concerned with a couple of drafts and ignoring trades and UFA signings.  Don't be afraid to swap players with other teams, in the right circumstances.  You build nothing and win nothing by only being focused on the draft or the UFA's or the trades.

 

Maybe Andersson has a high value now, but maybe it gets a little better next season.  Most of the year he was married to Hanifin.  I never felt that was the best use.  And I never really saw him being used right on the PP.  Savard out, so maybe they can get him to use his shot more or perhaps his zone entries improve.  Perhaps he can get to the level of points as some of the Norris leaders.  Or improve his play away from the puck to the point where we aren't missing Tanev. 

[cross16]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Fair enough.  At the end of the day, putting the puck in the net is the hardest thing to do in the NHL.  Pure shut down D are more of the 2nd round pick variety.

 

That said, based on Elick's highlight package, he moves well for a stay at home type.  His lateral/agility is good, balance is excellent, and his skating is smooth.  He's just passive on offense but there is puck moving abilities.

 

I'd honestly rather not pick them at all. Swing for upside as much as you can. 

[cross16]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Really just highlighted Reggie and Leopold just to mention the balance. Not saying go for a Reggie, we tried that with getting that D guy in the trade that got us the extra pick in the Jankowski year. I don't think that player does as well in this NHL. Last thing I want is a slow D who can't keep up on rushes.

 

just mentioning building the roster with depth is more difficult than some suggest. Even with cross saying, those players can be added later, we saw how hard it was to fill those spots later with actual good depth for a

very long time. That good depth filler don't come to Calgary, they go to the Stanley Cup champs. Hathaway was a good depth add, but once he wanted $1.5M he left. Not sure if he wanted out or if we didn't want to sign him. Lomberg was a decent add that we didn't have patience to see through. But still, it's been tough to add good proper cup winning depth. 
 

I just don't see it as easy as many think. I'm not saying draft them in the first round. Just that there's value in finding guys that can play quality 3rd pair or 3rd/4th line minutes.

 

I don't think that has been what has been hard in Calgary, what has been hard is finding the actual core that is capable of winning a cup. If you get that your depth options will be easier to find. 

 

I don't see depth as the problem here. 

[MP5029]

52 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think that has been what has been hard in Calgary, what has been hard is finding the actual core that is capable of winning a cup. If you get that your depth options will be easier to find. 

 

I don't see depth as the problem here. 

Exactly this, we have never fully developed a proper core.  
 

came close a few times, but every darn time it gets rushed and bad decisions get made.

 

In an ideal world, id

like to see us scoop another top 10 pick this year, land Tij and a D…

 

heck if we have any ability to land another 1st this year with moving any or all of Anderson, Markstrom, Manji or anyone over 25 I’d do it now.

 

maybe use VCR’s first and a player to add a top 10…then trade the others and wheel and deal for

a 3rd top 10 would be an amazing idea…add a D, Tij and Ctr would be a great start to building a young core with Honzek, Coranato, Zary & Pelletier 

 

the in 2025 do the same Thing draft Iginla brother, add another 1st and draft a D…and we’ll 2026 the pick goes to Mlt no doubt but this could build a proper

core moving forward.

 

with that in mind once they have a young core moving forward, the draft MO should Always be every round every year BPA of:

 

1. RS Ctrs

2. RS RD 

 

only that, always moving forward…they have the highest demand and best return year over year and at any level be it the top line or 4th line…to the top pair or bottom pair…do that every draft every year you will always have an asset that’s in demand which you can leverage for what you need elsewhere…

 

prime example is Col, Buf trade, for both teams needs at that time, though if either team move those player to a different team they would have probably had a better haul but at that time each player fit the need of the teams involved.

 

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I'd honestly rather not pick them at all. Swing for upside as much as you can. 

 

I don't agree at all.  Because at some point, defensive upside means something too.  Also, size, grit, intimidation, etc. captain/leader material.  Have to draft and develop those.  Run them through the system and build character with teammates all the way through.

[Sarasti]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Exactly this, we have never fully developed a proper core.  
 

came close a few times, but every darn time it gets rushed and bad decisions get made.

 

In an ideal world, id

like to see us scoop another top 10 pick this year, land Tij and a D…

 

heck if we have any ability to land another 1st this year with moving any or all of Anderson, Markstrom, Manji or anyone over 25 I’d do it now.

 

maybe use VCR’s first and a player to add a top 10…then trade the others and wheel and deal for

a 3rd top 10 would be an amazing idea…add a D, Tij and Ctr would be a great start to building a young core with Honzek, Coranato, Zary & Pelletier 

 

the in 2025 do the same Thing draft Iginla brother, add another 1st and draft a D…and we’ll 2026 the pick goes to Mlt no doubt but this could build a proper

core moving forward.

 

with that in mind once they have a young core moving forward, the draft MO should Always be every round every year BPA of:

 

1. RS Ctrs

2. RS RD 

 

only that, always moving forward…they have the highest demand and best return year over year and at any level be it the top line or 4th line…to the top pair or bottom pair…do that every draft every year you will always have an asset that’s in demand which you can leverage for what you need elsewhere…

 

prime example is Col, Buf trade, for both teams needs at that time, though if either team move those player to a different team they would have probably had a better haul but at that time each player fit the need of the teams involved.

 

 

 

Joe Iginla is 2026 eligible not 2025

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think that has been what has been hard in Calgary, what has been hard is finding the actual core that is capable of winning a cup. If you get that your depth options will be easier to find. 

 

I don't see depth as the problem here. 

depth has been a recent thing. If you're ok with guys player 3-4 min a night then we are very deep. But depth should be able to plate a bit more than that. 
 

problem has been building a 2nd line and a 4th line. 

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't agree at all.  Because at some point, defensive upside means something too.  Also, size, grit, intimidation, etc. captain/leader material.  Have to draft and develop those.  Run them through the system and build character with teammates all the way through.

again we need to define what is a defensive style player. A player who is D first that can still proficiently exit the zone is fine and I’m all for that. A player who doesn’t do anything until the puck gets in his zone and he needs help exiting it, I’m not interested in those and imo those should not be drafted. 
 

think it’s also a good thing to keep in him is if you swing for upside and players who are smart, puck moving, you can teach them defense. Really hard to teach players puck moving and transition play as they develop. 

[conundrumed]

37 minutes ago, cross16 said:

again we need to define what is a defensive style player. A player who is D first that can still proficiently exit the zone is fine and I’m all for that. A player who doesn’t do anything until the puck gets in his zone and he needs help exiting it, I’m not interested in those and imo those should not be drafted. 
 

think it’s also a good thing to keep in him is if you swing for upside and players who are smart, puck moving, you can teach them defense. Really hard to teach players puck moving and transition play as they develop. 

I assumed what you meant, thanks for clarifying.

 

I found a decent article of a few mid-round players that I was surprised hit some of the many that I wonder about where they'll land.

He, Pikkarainen and Fransen in particular. Just so everyone can sense that the draft has nice prospects beyond rd 2.

https://nhlentrydraft.com/news/under-the-radar-prospects-2024-draft/

[robrob74]

Flames Nation has an article on Sahlin Wallenius. He sends like a good fit for late first or early second. What was said from the analysts they  quoted seems like a great player to add.

Here is the article.

 

there are some scouts or analysts that have him as high as 27 but some have him lower. Consolidated rankings has him at 35, so flames nation suggests he is a reach at 28. 

 

 

https://flamesnation.ca/news/is-2024-draft-prospect-leo-sahlin-wallenius-a-fit-for-the-calgary-flames-prospect-pool

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

again we need to define what is a defensive style player. A player who is D first that can still proficiently exit the zone is fine and I’m all for that. A player who doesn’t do anything until the puck gets in his zone and he needs help exiting it, I’m not interested in those and imo those should not be drafted. 
 

think it’s also a good thing to keep in him is if you swing for upside and players who are smart, puck moving, you can teach them defense. Really hard to teach players puck moving and transition play as they develop. 

 

Well, how high would you draft someone like Tanev?  Gives you 2-goals a year and 10-points.  Skates decent and can move the puck out the zone but mostly doesn't do anything in the offensive zone.  Yet, he will get the most important assignments, first unit PK, defending a lead in final minutes of a game, etc. 

 

Would you swing for the next Tanev with a late first rounder?  I would.  A second rounder, for sure.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well, how high would you draft someone like Tanev?  Gives you 2-goals a year and 10-points.  Skates decent and can move the puck out the zone but mostly doesn't do anything in the offensive zone.  Yet, he will get the most important assignments, first unit PK, defending a lead in final minutes of a game, etc. 

 

Would you swing for the next Tanev with a late first rounder?  I would.  A second rounder, for sure.

id hope to get someone like him in the 2nd or 3rd round. But reality is, swing for an NHLer in every round. 
 

Mangiapane was a good target deep, Gaudreau's are rare, but go after those guys. It is tough.