2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[redfire11]

I think we should and could trade our Van 1st for a couple prospects. A proven commodity unlike the Van 1st.

[cross16]

17 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

i think we're saying similar things.  really.  history says you will disagree, but...i dunno.

 

If you think you can win a cup just by acquiring top 10 picks, then your plan is flawed.

 

But, acquiring top 10 picks is very much a part of asset accumulation.

 

For two reasons.   The pick that you get,,,

 

and the picks that you get...after.     

 

Seen many cup winners do that.  Just, there's a lag.   The lag is smaller, though, than if they try and right the ship without an initial top pick acquisition.

 

I agree we are saying similar things. 

 

Think we differ on the ease of acquiring top 10 picks. I think it's unlikely and you seem to believe it's expected. Of course great if you can but I don't see it as a likely option for the Flames, again unless we are talking about future picks but there is a luck element to that too. 

[cross16]

18 hours ago, cberg said:

I generally agree, and that is the usual approach.  I think Vegas defies your logic, however, but perhaps their example is just a late stage of your vision where they had such a huge pile of great assets they WERE able to get a couple franchise-altering trades, Stone and Eichel...

 

Well to be clear i'm referring to franchise altering picks. I think the idea being pushed here is the Flames should be acquiring picks and those picks could alter the franchise. That IMO is a mostly unrealistic goal. 

 

I do think Vegas is an outlier, but the possibility does remain to make franchise altering trades which is why an asset accumulation approach is my preferred method. If you have attractive assets to sell you can be part of trades when those players are available, like Vegas did. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Well to be clear i'm referring to franchise altering picks. I think the idea being pushed here is the Flames should be acquiring picks and those picks could alter the franchise. That IMO is a mostly unrealistic goal. 

 

I do think Vegas is an outlier, but the possibility does remain to make franchise altering trades which is why an asset accumulation approach is my preferred method. If you have attractive assets to sell you can be part of trades when those players are available, like Vegas did. 

 

In Conroy's trades to date, he has been doing that I think.  Adding assets, signing them to ELC's etc.  You always want to be able to use an asset if you need to for a specific trade.  We held back on using Valimaki and Pelletie because we had little else to pick from.  

 

I'm not suggesting we use these assets to make trades, but if the opportunity is there to add a player that just makes too much sense to trade for, then you evaluate the impact to your team and prospects.  

 

[robrob74]

Theoretically it might take Zary to get a top 10 pick, if a team thinks they are close age-wise but need a push; teams like Buffalo, Columbus, Arizona, or Ottawa. That's not looking at their needs though. Maybe even Seattle... it's because Zary is showing top performance and is in a spot to help them move forward, while a pick might take 2-3 years to mature. 
 

its very hypothetical, but think it's one way to gain a top pick. It may not have been done very often either... just saying it would take a lot to get one, and I wonder if Zary is good enough to garner one? But it's something we don't wanna do either.

[travel_dude]

We seem to be stressing a lot about what it takes to get a top 10 pick or an additional 1st rounder or move up.  This seems  be a lot of discussion well before the lotto, or for that matter even the end of the season.  Sometimes that is not even decided by a team until days before the draft or on the floor.  

[sak22]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Theoretically it might take Zary to get a top 10 pick, if a team thinks they are close age-wise but need a push; teams like Buffalo, Columbus, Arizona, or Ottawa. That's not looking at their needs though. Maybe even Seattle... it's because Zary is showing top performance and is in a spot to help them move forward, while a pick might take 2-3 years to mature. 
 

its very hypothetical, but think it's one way to gain a top pick. It may not have been done very often either... just saying it would take a lot to get one, and I wonder if Zary is good enough to garner one? But it's something we don't wanna do either.

I don't think Zary gets one without being packaged with another first, I really don't see the possibilities at all.  Really the only trade possible for this organization in the last 10 years to acquire a top 10 pick was Tkachuk either at the end of the 2019 or 2020 seasons.  

[cross16]

I actually don't think there is a player on the roster for the Flames right now that would net a top 10 pick in trade.

 

Maybe, maybe Andersson and even then i'm pretty skeptical. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I actually don't think there is a player on the roster for the Flames right now that would net a top 10 pick in trade.

 

Maybe, maybe Andersson and even then i'm pretty skeptical. 

 

Trades of top 10 picks are so rare.  The only way it logically happens is a future 1st that isn't protected.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I actually don't think there is a player on the roster for the Flames right now that would net a top 10 pick in trade.

 

Maybe, maybe Andersson and even then i'm pretty skeptical. 

 

Andersson alone.  No.  Andersson is not a superstar or anything.  But Andersson + Canucks 1st might get a 10/11/12 overall.  I would love for ARZ or OTT to get super desperate for a RHS RD who can play top pair right away... That's that's 5/6/7 overall which is more expensive than 10/11/12... 

 

Best bet in 10/11/12 is BUF or NJD.  Andersson + Canucks 1st for BUF's pick... But depends who is left on the board.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Andersson alone.  No.  Andersson is not a superstar or anything.  But Andersson + Canucks 1st might get a 10/11/12 overall.  I would love for ARZ or OTT to get super desperate for a RHS RD who can play top pair right away... That's that's 5/6/7 overall which is more expensive than 10/11/12... 

 

Best bet in 10/11/12 is BUF or NJD.  Andersson + Canucks 1st for BUF's pick... But depends who is left on the board.

 

We have some competition from below us in the standings.

MTL and ORR both on mini winning streaks and both leading today.

ARI doing their best to screw up another top 5 pick.

 

Meanwhile we lead the Blues after 1.

[travel_dude]

Out of town scoreboard help:

Sens (68) beat Hawks

Canadians (68) beat Flyers

Pens (74) beat CBJ

Isles (77) beat Panthers

[travel_dude]

Poor officiating.  Called a hight stick on Kuz, so they took away his hatty.

Of course STL scores on next play.

[travel_dude]

Offside on another goal overturned.

[travel_dude]

If Backlund could hit the net he would have 40 goals.

[cberg]

9 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Well to be clear i'm referring to franchise altering picks. I think the idea being pushed here is the Flames should be acquiring picks and those picks could alter the franchise. That IMO is a mostly unrealistic goal. 

 

I do think Vegas is an outlier, but the possibility does remain to make franchise altering trades which is why an asset accumulation approach is my preferred method. If you have attractive assets to sell you can be part of trades when those players are available, like Vegas did. 

I guess my thinking is we have the opportunity to get 1sts via trade with Markstrom and/or Anderson, as two examples.  Probably not top 10 but but maybe top 15, and a few other players that could supplement and make it more tenable.  That's half the story.  The second half is getting  a potential franchise-altering player with that pick.  Although the pros supposedly say the quality drops off substantially between 20-25, I'm thinking both Tij Iginla and Carter Yakemchuk seem to be a bit under the radar as potential "steals" who might be worth pursuing specifically.  Both are looking like 10-15 picks right now... Tij has been noted to be playing "just like his dad, a bit better" and if that is the case, and he agrees to come to the Flames, isn't that about as close to what we are discussing as possible?  Anyways, we are inching higher to a top8 pick or better, while enjoying the games... At this point, can't ask for much more. 

[cberg]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

We seem to be stressing a lot about what it takes to get a top 10 pick or an additional 1st rounder or move up.  This seems  be a lot of discussion well before the lotto, or for that matter even the end of the season.  Sometimes that is not even decided by a team until days before the draft or on the floor.  

Agreed but with the weather still cold and not much else to do, its fun.  Soon the weather will warm, we'll be outside, golf will start, playoffs, then the Lottery...  Hey, odds are improving for a lotto win...

[cberg]

6 hours ago, sak22 said:

I don't think Zary gets one without being packaged with another first, I really don't see the possibilities at all.  Really the only trade possible for this organization in the last 10 years to acquire a top 10 pick was Tkachuk either at the end of the 2019 or 2020 seasons.  

Considering what Tkachuk has proven to be, you'd think you should be able to get a top3 pick, easy, to the right team.  However, I agree that, opposite of the TDL, at the draft teams tend to treat their picks like solid gold.  Hard to get picks.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

If Backlund could hit the net he would have 40 goals.

 

That's the story of his career.

[Thebrewcrew]

The way the Flames get back to relevance is goin to have to be the draft and development route.

 

Getting through the rebuild is going to suck. There are going to be lots of ugly and pathetic losses.

 

The biggest issue the Flames have both at the NHL level and in the pipeline is a lack of elite talent. The easiest way to acquire elite talent is via the draft. The even easier way is to pick early in the draft. I think the Flames will do that this year.

 

Anyway, I find myself looking at Ottawa and Montreal. Two young teams, they'll play hard right through game 82. That 6th pick isn't entirely out of the question.

[Thebrewcrew]

Three assists for Parekh in game 1 of the OHL playoffs.

 

Ryder Ritchie with 1 and 1 in PA's game one upset over Saskatoon.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The way the Flames get back to relevance is goin to have to be the draft and development route.

 

Getting through the rebuild is going to suck. There are going to be lots of ugly and pathetic losses.

 

The biggest issue the Flames have both at the NHL level and in the pipeline is a lack of elite talent. The easiest way to acquire elite talent is via the draft. The even easier way is to pick early in the draft. I think the Flames will do that this year.

 

Anyway, I find myself looking at Ottawa and Montreal. Two young teams, they'll play hard right through game 82. That 6th pick isn't entirely out of the question.

 

Unfortunately, the Flames have the easiest schedule down the stretch.  We still have 5 winnable games coming up.

 

ANA X2

SJS X2

ARZ x1

 

4-6 to end the season is very probable.  This means we need OTT and MTL to go 6-4 to overtake us.

[Thebrewcrew]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Unfortunately, the Flames have the easiest schedule down the stretch.  We still have 5 winnable games coming up.

 

ANA X2

SJS X2

ARZ x1

 

4-6 to end the season is very probable.  This means we need OTT and MTL to go 6-4 to overtake us.

Is it easy though? 

 

Sharks blew the Flames out 6-2. That was with Hanifin and Tanev. Yes, the Sharks are very bad, but the Flames aren't that good.

 

Ducks have some young talent. Yotes will give them some issues too.

 

I think they need to lose at least one game to ANA or SJ. I'm gonna guess 3-7 to close it out. LA x2. Kings are now WC2, they need those wins. WPG needs wins too, they're sliding and may end up WC with NSH rolling. EDM game feels like a 6-1 L. Canucks in the final weekend of the year, could be a win. They likely rest some guys.

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Is it easy though? 

 

Sharks blew the Flames out 6-2. That was with Hanifin and Tanev. Yes, the Sharks are very bad, but the Flames aren't that good.

 

Ducks have some young talent. Yotes will give them some issues too.

 

I think they need to lose at least one game to ANA or SJ. I'm gonna guess 3-7 to close it out. LA x2. Kings are now WC2, they need those wins. WPG needs wins too, they're sliding and may end up WC with NSH rolling. EDM game feels like a 6-1 L. Canucks in the final weekend of the year, could be a win. They likely rest some guys.

 

I hope so.  3-7 would be amazing.

 

But both ANA and SJS are 1-8-1 lately so they mailed it in already.  Losing one of four would be pretty good if that were to happen.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The way the Flames get back to relevance is goin to have to be the draft and development route.

 

Getting through the rebuild is going to suck. There are going to be lots of ugly and pathetic losses.

 

The biggest issue the Flames have both at the NHL level and in the pipeline is a lack of elite talent. The easiest way to acquire elite talent is via the draft. The even easier way is to pick early in the draft. I think the Flames will do that this year.

 

Anyway, I find myself looking at Ottawa and Montreal. Two young teams, they'll play hard right through game 82. That 6th pick isn't entirely out of the question.

I'm really quite guarded. I am waiting to see how it plays out. I've been a fan since '89 and was quite happy to cheer the team in the down years after. It was around when they started to skip steps that I started to sour on the team, mostly after Gaudreau was drafted. It happening a 2nd time was tough. 

 

Now I wanna see if the team has learnt from it instead of skipping steps and mortgaging futures in the process. 
 

I think it was cross or conundrum and others that said they need to treat team building like a small market team.