2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

lol you need to try driving west, that is a man-made stress reliever but sure it's okay.

 

Coolest thing there is a massive network of underground tunnels.  but  i will tell you now it's not on alltrails.

I worked pipelines . AKA "underground tunnels". I always said that I could drive from MTL to VAN on pipeline right-of-ways. That is not even joking. I've criss-crossed the country by vehicle a lot.

Honestly, to the point of buying soap, deodorant, toothpaste and a toothbrush and throwing it at my cohort. "Blockchaining clean yourself up, you reek".

I'm sure others have been there. lol

If not...yeah, body odor isn't pretty.

 

[cberg]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

This is the type of delusional hype that I'm talking about.

"No, that stuff doesn't matter".

He's projected to be a 2nd line winger. If he meets that projection, will you be okay with that? Or are you certain that he'll be like his dad? These questions need to be asked.

It seems that multiple scouts have significantly upgraded their views on Tij over the season, and his early performances in the playoffs aren’t hindering him any.

[sak22]

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

so basically, let guys develop even if they could be on par with NHL players? Like allowing Monahan an extra Jr year, not you saying that.... and Benny too. Tkachuk was good to play with Backs... but ya.

I think an extra year for Monahan might have helped in some areas, but I don't think he naturally had the tools to be elite #1C, but it's not like elite players were passed up for him.  Bennett did go back for another year, he just had the shoulder surgery which took him out for most of it, I don't think the coaching changes helped with him, but I don't think there was anything elite to work with there, just a reminder the top of the draft doesn't always produce elites.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, sak22 said:

I think an extra year for Monahan might have helped in some areas, but I don't think he naturally had the tools to be elite #1C, but it's not like elite players were passed up for him.  Bennett did go back for another year, he just had the shoulder surgery which took him out for most of it, I don't think the coaching changes helped with him, but I don't think there was anything elite to work with there, just a reminder the top of the draft doesn't always produce elites.

 

I think Bennett had an extra year where he could have gone back, after the injury? I think a consensus was that he was now too good for JR and then after he was on the team they felt disrespectful to send him to the AHL, which was another thing they should have done. I might be getting that mixed up and that because he came back and played the playoffs and played it well, they wouldn't send him to the A. 

 

Also, with Monahan, it might have been good to continue to develop his skating and defensive game. But he was kind of NHL ready. I remember seeing him and wondered how he could play, but Theo couldn't when he did the comeback thing. Monahan looked like he thought the game good, but his skating wasn't there.

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think Bennett had an extra year where he could have gone back, after the injury? I think a consensus was that he was now too good for JR and then after he was on the team they felt disrespectful to send him to the AHL, which was another thing they should have done. I might be getting that mixed up and that because he came back and played the playoffs and played it well, they wouldn't send him to the A. 

 

Also, with Monahan, it might have been good to continue to develop his skating and defensive game. But he was kind of NHL ready. I remember seeing him and wondered how he could play, but Theo couldn't when he did the comeback thing. Monahan looked like he thought the game good, but his skating wasn't there.

 

They rushed literally all of their high 1sts.   The only one that was actually ready was Iginla.   And the most evident way to show that, is what they looked like compared to Iginla at that age.     Next closest was Tkachuk, and I still think they rushed him.

 

Biggest problem though, is they were all forwards.   never drafted that elite D up there.   I don't entirely fault them for it.   Dunno who else I would have drafted in Bennet's class.

 

Obviously Nylander or even a single-position upgrade were the way to go in that draft.   And again, that's going for skill and de-warting later, is what would have looked good there.  But to be fair, Bennett was also pretty skilled.  Just injury prone.   It's more of a development/health story than a drafting story.  As is Monahan.

 

We will never decisively be able to conclude that they were rushed and that was the problem.  But I can say with certainty that giving them an extra year to develop certainly would not have hurt anything.

 

That rebuild was in fact messesed up by Giordano, as @The_People1 suggested.   we drafted a couple spots too low, for too many years.  And then we rushed them.   Jankowski didn't help either.

 

it was also a tough time to rebuild in terms of a lack of quality D.    But not impossible. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

They rushed literally all of their high 1sts.   The only one that was actually ready was Iginla.   And the most evident way to show that, is what they looked like compared to Iginla at that age.     Next closest was Tkachuk, and I still think they rushed him.

 

So, the two slowest skares on CGY were both played in the NHL too early?

Monahan and Tkachuk.

Sorry, I don't think so.

Skating wasn't going to somehow get better playing in a slower league.

And when you are a certain type of player and you are assigned that role by the coach, whatevs.

I may lean that way with Bennett, but I think they failed to develop him in the NHL.

He was coming off an injury and they opted to play him in the playoffs.

Of course they keep him in the NHL after the way he played there.

It was the years following that the problems developed.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, the two slowest skares on CGY were both played in the NHL too early?

Monahan and Tkachuk.

Sorry, I don't think so.

Skating wasn't going to somehow get better playing in a slower league.

And when you are a certain type of player and you are assigned that role by the coach, whatevs.

I may lean that way with Bennett, but I think they failed to develop him in the NHL.

He was coming off an injury and they opted to play him in the playoffs.

Of course they keep him in the NHL after the way he played there.

It was the years following that the problems developed.

 

His first bone-related and foot-related injury with the Flames was Nov of 2013, so, pretty sure it didn't help his skating and pretty sure missing 2 games after skating on it for several games and it getting worse, wasn't the best way to introduce a 19 year old into the NHL.   Shots are harder, expectations are higher.    Dude's career started and ended with leg injuries, all of which he played through.   Even after they finally scanned it, they didn't allow enough time for it to heal.

 

All I'm saying man, is if they'd given him more time the Flames would not have any Less cups and his career would not have been any shorter.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, the two slowest skares on CGY were both played in the NHL too early?

Monahan and Tkachuk.

Sorry, I don't think so.

Skating wasn't going to somehow get better playing in a slower league.

And when you are a certain type of player and you are assigned that role by the coach, whatevs.

I may lean that way with Bennett, but I think they failed to develop him in the NHL.

He was coming off an injury and they opted to play him in the playoffs.

Of course they keep him in the NHL after the way he played there.

It was the years following that the problems developed.

can skating only be worked on in the NHL though? Skating is something worked on outside the game, learning edge work and it's better to practice on players who aren't going to take their head off, and NHL isn't a full developing league... which I found they did with Monahan. I hated Monahan since his first year in the NHL.
 

Maybe it's bias, but I  just couldn't get passed his skating. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

His first bone-related and foot-related injury with the Flames was Nov of 2013, so, pretty sure it didn't help his skating and pretty sure missing 2 games after skating on it for several games and it getting worse, wasn't the best way to introduce a 19 year old into the NHL.   Shots are harder, expectations are higher.    Dude's career started and ended with leg injuries, all of which he played through.   Even after they finally scanned it, they didn't allow enough time for it to heal.

 

All I'm saying man, is if they'd given him more time the Flames would not have any Less cups and his career would not have been any shorter.

 

So, he stays in junior for another year (or 2), then either goes to the AHL or NHL.

Not sure how any of that makes his career the same duration.  Also I would suggest that his injuries could have been worse elsewhere.  If anything, the decisions to play him injured was the big mistake made.  If he was playing with Johnny today, the guy would have 40 goals, he looks better.

 

I think the play don't play right out of junior is more appropriate to a player that may be out of his realm.  Too light.  Too soft.  Only excels against kids.  You probably can make a fair judgement in 9 or less.  

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

can skating only be worked on in the NHL though? Skating is something worked on outside the game, learning edge work and it's better to practice on players who aren't going to take their head off, and NHL isn't a full developing league... which I found they did with Monahan. I hated Monahan since his first year in the NHL.
 

Maybe it's bias, but I  just couldn't get passed his skating. 

 

I think there are just certain people who's gate and skate don't lend themselves to speed.  Choppy skaters.  Or they may be slower looking because they can't handle the puck at speed.  

 

Monahan was NHL size, so I think the only thing is whether he would have been better off in Junior and then AHL.  I don't see what that does to the natural skills the guy had.  He was never going to be Matthews.  He could have been injured before a playoff game in Detroit riding a scooter.   The advantage of youth is the less brittle bones.  But if they don't take care of the pieces that need fixing, he's 30 and they just seem to have found it all.

[conundrumed]

As much as I'm against cheering losses, I love Jeff Beck.

So here he is, playing toying with the Stones with my current Flames theme song.

 

[The_People1]

Clutch win by ARZ today.  Was down 4-2 and comes back to win 7-4.

 

Out of town scoreboard watching time.

[robrob74]

For what was expected to be a "deep draft" in 2023, one where no one was trading first rounders, was the first rounder one we should have taken, without hindsight? Not knocking Honzek, just asking if maybe we might have needed a different approach to the depth. 
 

and can last year or the few years before's approaches hint at what to expect this year? Is it good, bad, exciting, worrisome? 
 

Many on this site seem to have their wishlist, and many are writing Santa. 
 

I was worried Honzek was a reach, and maybe needs a bit of time to grow into himself. I hope he becomes an NHLer. I get wanted a player of his stature and possible power, which makes it all that harder to read an 18yr old. 

[Sarasti]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

For what was expected to be a "deep draft" in 2023, one where no one was trading first rounders, was the first rounder one we should have taken, without hindsight? Not knocking Honzek, just asking if maybe we might have needed a different approach to the depth. 
 

and can last year or the few years before's approaches hint at what to expect this year? Is it good, bad, exciting, worrisome? 
 

Many on this site seem to have their wishlist, and many are writing Santa. 
 

I was worried Honzek was a reach, and maybe needs a bit of time to grow into himself. I hope he becomes an NHLer. I get wanted a player of his stature and possible power, which makes it all that harder to read an 18yr old. 

 

I think Honzek will be fine.

At worst he will be a Backlund replacement imo 

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

For what was expected to be a "deep draft" in 2023, one where no one was trading first rounders, was the first rounder one we should have taken, without hindsight? Not knocking Honzek, just asking if maybe we might have needed a different approach to the depth. 
 

and can last year or the few years before's approaches hint at what to expect this year? Is it good, bad, exciting, worrisome? 
 

Many on this site seem to have their wishlist, and many are writing Santa. 
 

I was worried Honzek was a reach, and maybe needs a bit of time to grow into himself. I hope he becomes an NHLer. I get wanted a player of his stature and possible power, which makes it all that harder to read an 18yr old. 

 

He battled injuries this season.  And had injuries in his draft year which caused him to fall in the rankings.  I think the talent is there but he just had to stay healthy. 

 

Zary's development was delayed because of injury but he's on track again.  Hopefully Honzek can do the same.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

For what was expected to be a "deep draft" in 2023, one where no one was trading first rounders, was the first rounder one we should have taken, without hindsight? Not knocking Honzek, just asking if maybe we might have needed a different approach to the depth. 
 

and can last year or the few years before's approaches hint at what to expect this year? Is it good, bad, exciting, worrisome? 
 

Many on this site seem to have their wishlist, and many are writing Santa. 
 

I was worried Honzek was a reach, and maybe needs a bit of time to grow into himself. I hope he becomes an NHLer. I get wanted a player of his stature and possible power, which makes it all that harder to read an 18yr old. 

Should have taken Musty. Rankings be damned.lol I'm sure Honzek will be fine. His medical and recovery are in the elite hands of a pro sports team now. It's too early to be concerned.

I didn't like the Morin pick, personally. I'm quite anti-QMJHL. Folks can rhyme off lots of players from there. Don't bother though, I understand that point. Just on avg, the level is closer to the USHL than the O or dub. Just my opinion. It's a pretty soft league. I have zero issue with Suniev at 80. That's a nice grab. Then I don't like the Lipinski pick either. See how she goes. We've made some very questionable picks in the last 5 years though.

I think a few we can blame on scouting remotely. Other things I'm a little concerned about is that we over-think/over-scout particular leagues/teams. I have greater concern that we lean towards the dub too much. Sutter had that preference, and I think that you maybe start limiting yourself, or have a bit of a skewed and bias view.

For me, it is pretty much just population-based. Literally the only reason the O stays head-and-shoulders atop the CHL is the avg competition level, beyond the star players. It's just a harder league due to how good the avg player is. Because, well, population-base.

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Should have taken Musty. Rankings be damned.lol I'm sure Honzek will be fine. His medical and recovery are in the elite hands of a pro sports team now. It's too early to be concerned.

I didn't like the Morin pick, personally. I'm quite anti-QMJHL. Folks can rhyme off lots of players from there. Don't bother though, I understand that point. Just on avg, the level is closer to the USHL than the O or dub. Just my opinion. It's a pretty soft league. I have zero issue with Suniev at 80. That's a nice grab. Then I don't like the Lipinski pick either. See how she goes. We've made some very questionable picks in the last 5 years though.

I think a few we can blame on scouting remotely. Other things I'm a little concerned about is that we over-think/over-scout particular leagues/teams. I have greater concern that we lean towards the dub too much. Sutter had that preference, and I think that you maybe start limiting yourself, or have a bit of a skewed and bias view.

For me, it is pretty much just population-based. Literally the only reason the O stays head-and-shoulders atop the CHL is the avg competition level, beyond the star players. It's just a harder league due to how good the avg player is. Because, well, population-base.

 

 

Great call on Musty.  He put up good numbers this season.  He still looks like an offensive zone player only but he gets the job done in that regard.

 

I wanted Ritchie because RHS C with size.

 

Honzek needs to stay healthy next season.  He's playing with Wranglers hopefully or is he still too young?  He's not 20 until November.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Great call on Musty.  He put up good numbers this season.  He still looks like an offensive zone player only but he gets the job done in that regard.

 

I wanted Ritchie because RHS C with size.

 

Honzek needs to stay healthy next season.  He's playing with Wranglers hopefully or is he still too young?  He's not 20 until November.

 

Honzek was a player picked in range of when we picked, so it was a safe pick if you like.

I think there were better choices than a LW, though I think Connie suggested he was a C.

If all that is available at our turn is a LHS LW, then I would look elsewhere.

Trade down a spot or two, and still get the best avaiable RW/C/D.

 

Honzek can play because in the AHL of the November birthday.

 

I think we get a very good pick wherever we finish.  SEA and BUFF pulling away from us.

I don't think it matters if OTT or MTL passes us, because one of them will win the lotto.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Should have taken Musty. Rankings be damned.lol I'm sure Honzek will be fine. His medical and recovery are in the elite hands of a pro sports team now. It's too early to be concerned.

I didn't like the Morin pick, personally. I'm quite anti-QMJHL. Folks can rhyme off lots of players from there. Don't bother though, I understand that point. Just on avg, the level is closer to the USHL than the O or dub. Just my opinion. It's a pretty soft league. I have zero issue with Suniev at 80. That's a nice grab. Then I don't like the Lipinski pick either. See how she goes. We've made some very questionable picks in the last 5 years though.

I think a few we can blame on scouting remotely. Other things I'm a little concerned about is that we over-think/over-scout particular leagues/teams. I have greater concern that we lean towards the dub too much. Sutter had that preference, and I think that you maybe start limiting yourself, or have a bit of a skewed and bias view.

For me, it is pretty much just population-based. Literally the only reason the O stays head-and-shoulders atop the CHL is the avg competition level, beyond the star players. It's just a harder league due to how good the avg player is. Because, well, population-base.

I actually liked the Lipinski pick.

 

Ive really liked him this year. Top line centre for VAN, used in all situations. Pretty solid in the dot as well.

 

Most nights he’s been more noticeable than Honzek.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think we get a very good pick wherever we finish.  SEA and BUFF pulling away from us.

I don't think it matters if OTT or MTL passes us, because one of them will win the lotto.

 

5th is within striking distance but I think we run out of runway.  ARZ has 6-games remaining and 4 points back.  If they finish 3-3 then the Flames have to go 0-6-1 which is unlikely.

 

Same can be said about 6 and 7th held by OTT and MTL.  We need them to go 3-3 and Flames only win 1 more the rest of the way.

 

8th is probably the highest 

[sak22]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

For what was expected to be a "deep draft" in 2023, one where no one was trading first rounders, was the first rounder one we should have taken, without hindsight? Not knocking Honzek, just asking if maybe we might have needed a different approach to the depth. 
 

and can last year or the few years before's approaches hint at what to expect this year? Is it good, bad, exciting, worrisome? 
 

Many on this site seem to have their wishlist, and many are writing Santa. 
 

I was worried Honzek was a reach, and maybe needs a bit of time to grow into himself. I hope he becomes an NHLer. I get wanted a player of his stature and possible power, which makes it all that harder to read an 18yr old. 

I get the concerns with Honzek, hard not to be, I'd add Morin to the list as underwhelming in the D1 year.  I haven't seen him so couldn't tell if there are reasons to his decline, maybe with a few injuries he's taking it a little easier or just coasting through junior like Getzlaf did.  I don't think Honzek is alone for guys ranked around him to show little growth, Danielson underwhelmed prior to getting traded to Portland, Wood's production is down, Barlow, Stramel,.

 

As far as the last few years I don't really like taking too much from 2022 because of only 3 picks and losing the top one due to criminal behavior.  2021 I think will look like a real messed up draft across the board in a few years (it already looks messed up), I think it is the most impacted by Covid, just funny the top scorer to date from that draft is Johnston who was #23 and the top scoring dman so far is Moser who was #60, a lot can change but still 12 first rounders have yet to play and there are a couple I believe never will including #10.  The top 5 is definitely trending to be probably ahead of 2012 but close to the bottom for worst top 5's in recent years.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

5th is within striking distance but I think we run out of runway.  ARZ has 6-games remaining and 4 points back.  If they finish 3-3 then the Flames have to go 0-6-1 which is unlikely.

 

Same can be said about 6 and 7th held by OTT and MTL.  We need them to go 3-3 and Flames only win 1 more the rest of the way.

 

8th is probably the highest 

 

We are well below 500 in that 10.

Ottawa and MTL both at exactly 500

Zona is 6-4-0 last 10.

It's too hard to say how they play the remaining games.

All of those teams of capable of beating any NHL team.

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

We are well below 500 in that 10.

Ottawa and MTL both at exactly 500

Zona is 6-4-0 last 10.

It's too hard to say how they play the remaining games.

All of those teams of capable of beating any NHL team.

 

Just call it 8th. The NHL is pretty predictable.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Just call it 8th. The NHL is pretty predictable.

 

If we end up 8th, we get passed by the 9th place team with a unlikely lotto win.

There are teams that never win lotto picks.

The year Lafrenier went 1st, NY was 16th and ended up 1st.

If the odds were that unlikely for a team out of the top 5 to win, how did they?

 

Not really serious.  I hope we geta good player at 8.

 

 

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If we end up 8th, we get passed by the 9th place team with a unlikely lotto win.

There are teams that never win lotto picks.

The year Lafrenier went 1st, NY was 16th and ended up 1st.

If the odds were that unlikely for a team out of the top 5 to win, how did they?

 

Not really serious.  I hope we geta good player at 8.

 

 

 

Like Lafrenier?