2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[travel_dude]

47 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I would almost rather they didn't draft Tij Iginla, talk about putting an unfair amount of pressure on a kid. Drafting a kid to team where his Dad was the greatest player in Franchise history, is widely celebrated and still works for the organization, it's just asking for heartache. 

 

If the draft falls in such a way that the Flames have no choice but to draft him, sure, but I wouldn't go into the draft looking to draft him at all costs. It has nothing to do with him as player either, because I think he will be very good, I just think the risk of it going bad is infinitely higher in Calgary than anywhere else.

 

It's like Marty Brodeur stepping up to the podium to draft his kid, if he kid was projected to go in the first round.  It sells hype and sets up the speculation that we only ever considered him due to his name.  I want the best player in the draft,  even if it's only in the range we pick.  The kid is making a name for himself beyond his last name, but I only want him if that's the best guy.  Someone will draft him and be happy or sad in 10 years time.

[The_People1]

All points about Tij are fair. All.  But he's in that range where we draft so I wouldn't hesitate if we had the opportunity.  I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid picking him.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

All points about Tij are fair. All.  But he's in that range where we draft so I wouldn't hesitate if we had the opportunity.  I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid picking him.

 

100%.

 

Not everyone has daddy issues.

[Thebrewcrew]

I need to watch more of Buium, it’s not all

thay easy to watch college games in Canada though.

 

Cant argue with the counting stats, they are excellent. But worth noting that Denver is a stacked team. Right now they have 12 drafted NHL players, not including Buium.

 

Not questioning his skill because from the little I’ve seen, he’s got tons of it, but the production is probably inflated. Example being, Massimo Rizzo, Flyer property has a pt/g of 1.57. Plenty of help for Buium.

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I need to watch more of Buium, it’s not all

thay easy to watch college games in Canada though.

 

Cant argue with the counting stats, they are excellent. But worth noting that Denver is a stacked team. Right now they have 12 drafted NHL players, not including Buium.

 

Not questioning his skill because from the little I’ve seen, he’s got tons of it, but the production is probably inflated. Example being, Massimo Rizzo, Flyer property has a pt/g of 1.57. Plenty of help for Buium.

You're going to like what you see. Detroit drafted his older brother Shai, 36th oa. Both are at Denver. Zeev was on that great U18 team last year (Dec. birthday). He's a very good skater and dogs pucks noticeably well. Great passer and rushing dman. He doesn't have a great shot but makes up for it with his passing and being deceptive. I think I'll end up with him around 10-15th oa. The downside is his D. He's a pretty good defender, but it'll need work. He's not physical at all, but makes up for it with puck movement.

He's close to Dickinson due to his play with the puck. Heavier competition but stacked team, like you say. Yet he gets top minutes as a freshman, so that deserves recognition. He really makes things happen pretty consistently. Yet another product of Shattuck so good dev path.

As they say, "you can teach defence", but I'm more of the mind of goading offence out of solid defenders that are great skaters.

My preference is at fwd with our first 1st, but Buium wouldn't be a bad pick at all. Dickinson is the only Dman I'd want that high though. If Zeev were drafted last year, which is actually his age group, he'd have likely been a mid-late 2nd rder, so bare that in mind.

Can maybe consider EJ Emery (Ray's kid) with Van's 1st if we're D-hunting at that point. RHD that plays a shutdown game with size and dad's aggression gene.lol Maybe he's even there at our 2nd? He's currently Cole Hutson's safety net partner for the US U18 team.

 

 

 

 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

As they say, "you can teach defence", but I'm more of the mind of goading offence out of solid defenders that are great skaters.

 

 

Personally I am not a fan of changing the kid into something we believe is more balanced.  ie, draft an offensive Dman and focus on developing his defense.  Then why not just draft a more balanced kid to begin with?

 

Great teams have a great balance of different talents, not a great number of balanced players.  You want specialization.  Some excel on defense and PK.  Others are unstoppable when you need a goal.  Others drop the gloves and bring sandpaper. Etc.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Personally I am not a fan of changing the kid into something we believe is more balanced.  ie, draft an offensive Dman and focus on developing his defense.  Then why not just draft a more balanced kid to begin with?

 

Great teams have a great balance of different talents, not a great number of balanced players.  You want specialization.  Some excel on defense and PK.  Others are unstoppable when you need a goal.  Others drop the gloves and bring sandpaper. Etc.

I agree, that part gets me too. I worry with O-minded dmen that having them grind away fixing their d warts affects why you drafted them in the first place. One thing that I place the most importance on is skating. The skating is so high end now that avg and "needs work" is about the last thing that I wanna see. Though Mickey Redmond made a couple of great points. One, the speed is why you see a lot of injuries. Flying around with danger out there, everywhere, is how he explained it. That, and why don't they call charging anymore? Only boarding when the recipient is vulnerable. 4 steps to crush a guy used to be charging. They've pretty much done away with that.

She's a dangerous league and you have to be great on your skates anymore. The skating and puck control at speed just blows my mind these days. One bad pass and it's gone in a second. Go chase them.lol I chuckle at some PP commentary. By the time they've said a 3-syllable name there's been 2 passes and it's in the net.

We need auctioneers and carnival barkies.

[The_People1]

Do we think we can trade Markstrom to NJD for a top 10 pick?

 

Rumour was, NJD was willing to do Holtz + 1st... however, the 1st was thought to be in the 20s.  Now that it's top 10, then maybe Markstrom straight across one for one?  OR would it be even more expensive than that?  Markstom + the Canucks (30th) pick for NJD top 10 pick?  That way NJD gets the goalie they want plus still get a 1st round pick.  

[redfire11]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Do we think we can trade Markstrom to NJD for a top 10 pick?

 

Rumour was, NJD was willing to do Holtz + 1st... however, the 1st was thought to be in the 20s.  Now that it's top 10, then maybe Markstrom straight across one for one?  OR would it be even more expensive than that?  Markstom + the Canucks (30th) pick for NJD top 10 pick?  That way NJD gets the goalie they want plus still get a 1st round pick.  

Markstrom for NJD 1st 11+ OA

Markstrom and Van 1st for NJD 1st 10 - OA , Holtz 

[The_People1]

32 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Markstrom for NJD 1st 11+ OA

Markstrom and Van 1st for NJD 1st 10 - OA , Holtz 

 

Obviously the more NJD loses up the standings, the more expensive the pick will cost to acquire.  It's only fair.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Do we think we can trade Markstrom to NJD for a top 10 pick?

 

Rumour was, NJD was willing to do Holtz + 1st... however, the 1st was thought to be in the 20s.  Now that it's top 10, then maybe Markstrom straight across one for one?  OR would it be even more expensive than that?  Markstom + the Canucks (30th) pick for NJD top 10 pick?  That way NJD gets the goalie they want plus still get a 1st round pick.  

 

imho that was a one-time deal we will never see again.  I'd be very happy to be wrong.   

[Thebrewcrew]

11 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

imho that was a one-time deal we will never see again.  I'd be very happy to be wrong.   

I agree.

 

I would be very surprised if a 1st is on the table this summer. I’m thinking 2nd+

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I agree.

 

I would be very surprised if a 1st is on the table this summer. I’m thinking 2nd+

 

Ya I'm thinking Markstrom + the Canucks 1st... So trade up type of thing.  Maybe the Flames take back a contract to make it work.  Picking top 10 feels critical in this draft.  The cliff seems to fall off quickly by 13/14.

[cberg]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I'm thinking Markstrom + the Canucks 1st... So trade up type of thing.  Maybe the Flames take back a contract to make it work.  Picking top 10 feels critical in this draft.  The cliff seems to fall off quickly by 13/14.

Most of the scouts put the cliff at 20...  In either case, It would be nice to get a second first rounder in the top 15 or so...

[conundrumed]

It must be nearing April and time to get hung up on draft position and the importance of having as many, "can't miss" top 12 picks as we can muster. Until we select Zadina and Kravtsov. Then we forget any of that ever happened and clamour for more top 12 picks in the following years.

Then there's the Wyatt Johnson, David Pastrnak, Brock Faber, Luke Evangelista, Jordan Kyrou, Tage Thompson, Brandon Hagel...I mean, those 18yos past about pick #15 almost never work out. But Lafreniere, Wright, Slavkovsky, Dach, Bennett, Juolevi, Turcotte, Kotkaniemi...those guys are going to be bonafide perennial all-stars, just wait and see.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but let's not get carried away that we absolutely need to pick within x and need as many picks within x to guarantee success or have a 82.7% chance of it working out. They say 78.4% of statisticians hate their job so much that they entertain themselves by seeing how many people buy made-up ones if they mix them in at 42.6%. The only accurate dataset I've ever seen regarding anything is that if it's raining out, there is a 100% chance of rain. If it's not raining, I've seen 80% chances be wrong. lol Data out is only as good as data in, which never accounts for everything.

My one hope is maybe let's pick ahead of St. Louis. Their draft history beyond the top 15 is as good as anyone's. I don't want them in the way!!

Beyond our 1st pick, there is quite a bit to be intense about with our Van and rd 2-4 picks. There's a lot of 17yos not getting the stat-boosting reps because older players reduce them to 3rd line roles at this point in time.

That's where the scouting happens.

There's a specific big LD that I see a lot that I hope everyone hates that I quietly want us to take with maybe Dallas' 2nd rd pick. He's on a terrible team that might be local to me and a great kid/athlete...he's hiding a bit, but he's in this write-up which is decent:

The Sting are awful. don't bother scouting us...

[cberg]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It must be nearing April and time to get hung up on draft position and the importance of having as many, "can't miss" top 12 picks as we can muster. Until we select Zadina and Kravtsov. Then we forget any of that ever happened and clamour for more top 12 picks in the following years.

Then there's the Wyatt Johnson, David Pastrnak, Brock Faber, Luke Evangelista, Jordan Kyrou, Tage Thompson, Brandon Hagel...I mean, those 18yos past about pick #15 almost never work out. But Lafreniere, Wright, Slavkovsky, Dach, Bennett, Juolevi, Turcotte, Kotkaniemi...those guys are going to be bonafide perennial all-stars, just wait and see.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but let's not get carried away that we absolutely need to pick within x and need as many picks within x to guarantee success or have a 82.7% chance of it working out. They say 78.4% of statisticians hate their job so much that they entertain themselves by seeing how many people buy made-up ones if they mix them in at 42.6%. The only accurate dataset I've ever seen regarding anything is that if it's raining out, there is a 100% chance of rain. If it's not raining, I've seen 80% chances be wrong. lol Data out is only as good as data in, which never accounts for everything.

My one hope is maybe let's pick ahead of St. Louis. Their draft history beyond the top 15 is as good as anyone's. I don't want them in the way!!

Beyond our 1st pick, there is quite a bit to be intense about with our Van and rd 2-4 picks. There's a lot of 17yos not getting the stat-boosting reps because older players reduce them to 3rd line roles at this point in time.

That's where the scouting happens.

There's a specific big LD that I see a lot that I hope everyone hates that I quietly want us to take with maybe Dallas' 2nd rd pick. He's on a terrible team that might be local to me and a great kid/athlete...he's hiding a bit, but he's in this write-up which is decent:

The Sting are awful. don't bother scouting us...

That is actually right on, hard to know how the 17 yo's turn out 3-4 years later, anyone who has gone through teenagers knows that.  Getting opportunity is also key, just look at the recent Flames trades, they traded away several 'Stars' but I'm not seeing a massive drop-off from the younger guys they brought in as replacements...

[robrob74]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It must be nearing April and time to get hung up on draft position and the importance of having as many, "can't miss" top 12 picks as we can muster. Until we select Zadina and Kravtsov. Then we forget any of that ever happened and clamour for more top 12 picks in the following years.

Then there's the Wyatt Johnson, David Pastrnak, Brock Faber, Luke Evangelista, Jordan Kyrou, Tage Thompson, Brandon Hagel...I mean, those 18yos past about pick #15 almost never work out. But Lafreniere, Wright, Slavkovsky, Dach, Bennett, Juolevi, Turcotte, Kotkaniemi...those guys are going to be bonafide perennial all-stars, just wait and see.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but let's not get carried away that we absolutely need to pick within x and need as many picks within x to guarantee success or have a 82.7% chance of it working out. They say 78.4% of statisticians hate their job so much that they entertain themselves by seeing how many people buy made-up ones if they mix them in at 42.6%. The only accurate dataset I've ever seen regarding anything is that if it's raining out, there is a 100% chance of rain. If it's not raining, I've seen 80% chances be wrong. lol Data out is only as good as data in, which never accounts for everything.

My one hope is maybe let's pick ahead of St. Louis. Their draft history beyond the top 15 is as good as anyone's. I don't want them in the way!!

Beyond our 1st pick, there is quite a bit to be intense about with our Van and rd 2-4 picks. There's a lot of 17yos not getting the stat-boosting reps because older players reduce them to 3rd line roles at this point in time.

That's where the scouting happens.

There's a specific big LD that I see a lot that I hope everyone hates that I quietly want us to take with maybe Dallas' 2nd rd pick. He's on a terrible team that might be local to me and a great kid/athlete...he's hiding a bit, but he's in this write-up which is decent:

The Sting are awful. don't bother scouting us...

 

thing about drafting ahead of St. Louis is, know what they're gonna draft. We could draft ahead of them all the time, and still pick Jankowski and sacrifice Vasileski for a chance at the D we took in the second round. 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

thing about drafting ahead of St. Louis is, know what they're gonna draft. We could draft ahead of them all the time, and still pick Jankowski and sacrifice Vasileski for a chance at the D we took in the second round. 

Nightmares of Feaster and that other bloke thinking they're 4D chessmasters is a thing long past, but not forgotten. Conroy knows why he has scouts working for him. He even mentioned his pro scouts just kept feeding him Russian dmen so that's how it happened. So he knows that his scouts know way more than he does. He'll be a great GM, simply by letting those around him do their jobs and give him solid intel. He trusts them, obviously.

There are no greater employees than the ones that feel wanted and needed.

Let me maybe point out some huge positives:

1. He's added solid pieces to our pro scouting staff

2. Took advantage of expiring contracts to alleviate the cap hell, respectfully towards the players, while not taking pointless contracts back

3. He has begun giving the amateur scouts more ammo, so they feel re-invigorated. This one, I know it's true. 

So now we've built up a respectable D prospect pool, have $19mil in cap space for next year, and have added a healthy handful of picks at top 100ish range.

Add in some come uppance of Zary and Pospisil, perhaps Wolf. The great add of Sharangovich, return of Kylington, Weegar flexing, it's looking a lot better than the disaster that we were likely surmising.

It's fun watching Conroy making it his own style and front end staff working as a team.

[bosn111]

Cap space will be interesting next season. Doubtful that both Mangiapane and Kuzmenko get kept, and a good possibility that either Vladar or Markstrom get moved. Any of these players will bring back at least 1 draft pick each. This also would add significant cap space.

 

Not much for high end centremen in FA this year, so you are likely needing to trade for one or use Sharangovich or Zary at C on the top line.

 

I think the draft could be very interesting for the Flames this year.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Nightmares of Feaster and that other bloke thinking they're 4D chessmasters is a thing long past, but not forgotten. Conroy knows why he has scouts working for him. He even mentioned his pro scouts just kept feeding him Russian dmen so that's how it happened. So he knows that his scouts know way more than he does. He'll be a great GM, simply by letting those around him do their jobs and give him solid intel. He trusts them, obviously.

There are no greater employees than the ones that feel wanted and needed.

Let me maybe point out some huge positives:

1. He's added solid pieces to our pro scouting staff

2. Took advantage of expiring contracts to alleviate the cap hell, respectfully towards the players, while not taking pointless contracts back

3. He has begun giving the amateur scouts more ammo, so they feel re-invigorated. This one, I know it's true. 

So now we've built up a respectable D prospect pool, have $19mil in cap space for next year, and have added a healthy handful of picks at top 100ish range.

Add in some come uppance of Zary and Pospisil, perhaps Wolf. The great add of Sharangovich, return of Kylington, Weegar flexing, it's looking a lot better than the disaster that we were likely surmising.

It's fun watching Conroy making it his own style and front end staff working as a team.

 

That's why it would be nice to see a full rebuild under Conroy.  He could probably build a true Cup contender if given the chance to do so.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, bosn111 said:

Cap space will be interesting next season. Doubtful that both Mangiapane and Kuzmenko get kept, and a good possibility that either Vladar or Markstrom get moved. Any of these players will bring back at least 1 draft pick each. This also would add significant cap space.

 

Not much for high end centremen in FA this year, so you are likely needing to trade for one or use Sharangovich or Zary at C on the top line.

 

I think the draft could be very interesting for the Flames this year.

 

Mangiapane to me says NHL trade, with a similar underperforming player traded for him.

Not really a trade like Byram for Mittlestandt as such, but similar.

Team A has depth in another area but light on scoring wingers.

 

Unless a team is desperate, I can't see a draft day deal.

Unfortunately, he also has a 8 team no go list.

Kuz has 12 team list.

 

I would keep Kuz, since we are presently light on RW snipers.

Pospisil and Coronato are good, but maybe only one of them should be on RW.

I don't know if Pospisil has the skill on RW like Tkachuk did.

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's why it would be nice to see a full rebuild under Conroy.  He could probably build a true Cup contender if given the chance to do so.

I'm not sure how to coin it, but just a different build works for me. He has Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar longterm so not much to do about that but work with it. It's only 3 players, and they aren't a downfall by any stretch.

Conroy stated he wants big and fast so you can see already that those elements are being added with Sharangovich, Pospisil and the D prospects. Not taking some plug's lousy contract back to elevate the pick for Tanev, as was rumoured, is tidy work. You can't be mixing mud into your paint, so to speak, it Blockchains your palette up when you need a clean slate to work with.

I'm still a little reticent with the $9 for Lindholm and $7.5 for Hanifin extension rumours, if true. Our roster was so capped out yet nothing but vanilla. Like biting into an avocado for the first time after everyone has told you how awesome they are.

I had no idea about Pospisil, but that kid has bite. As does Zary in a different way, as his bite is more often than not making the right play. Give me a roster of high IQ guys that make the right play and I feel you can get away without superstars. Smart players can frustrate them.

It's pretty much a game of limiting mistakes.

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Mangiapane to me says NHL trade, with a similar underperforming player traded for him.

Not really a trade like Byram for Mittlestandt as such, but similar.

Team A has depth in another area but light on scoring wingers.

 

Unless a team is desperate, I can't see a draft day deal.

Unfortunately, he also has a 8 team no go list.

Kuz has 12 team list.

 

I would keep Kuz, since we are presently light on RW snipers.

Pospisil and Coronato are good, but maybe only one of them should be on RW.

I don't know if Pospisil has the skill on RW like Tkachuk did.

Pospisil is an almost ideal middle 6 RW. You need the guy that everyone hates playing against but wishes they had. He creates space for his linemates while annoying the crap out of everyone.

The real fun is that he's only going to get better at it.

Mangiapane is an adequate placeholder, so no rush. Kuzmenko is a snipe but I'd likely lose him first due to little else in his play that is worthwhile. Coronato just needs an offseason training year. She ain't 30 games a year anymore. He's going to be a great RWer, just takes time to adjust to zero down time during the hockey season.

In the meantime per Mangiapane, Parker Bell is a prospect that I just can't stop liking. 6'5" doesn't hurt either. lol

Still have Honzek too if he is more than constant IR some day.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's why it would be nice to see a full rebuild under Conroy.  He could probably build a true Cup contender if given the chance to do so.

 

He might be a brilliant GM.   Might.   Seen some very, very positive things.   As @conundrumed described well.

 

Fumbling the Markstrom trade, and maybe not acing last year's draft, make it too early to say.   I remain undecided and don't think we'll have enough to weigh in on until at Least this year's draft.

 

If he's a brilliant GM...well.  imho the last one we had here was Cliff Fletcher.

 

Took him 10 years, without a rebuild.

 

I can wait.    But I would have preferred 5 years.

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm not sure how to coin it, but just a different build works for me. He has Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar longterm so not much to do about that but work with it. It's only 3 players, and they aren't a downfall by any stretch.

Conroy stated he wants big and fast so you can see already that those elements are being added with Sharangovich, Pospisil and the D prospects. Not taking some plug's lousy contract back to elevate the pick for Tanev, as was rumoured, is tidy work. You can't be mixing mud into your paint, so to speak, it Blockchains your palette up when you need a clean slate to work with.

I'm still a little reticent with the $9 for Lindholm and $7.5 for Hanifin extension rumours, if true. Our roster was so capped out yet nothing but vanilla. Like biting into an avocado for the first time after everyone has told you how awesome they are.

I had no idea about Pospisil, but that kid has bite. As does Zary in a different way, as his bite is more often than not making the right play. Give me a roster of high IQ guys that make the right play and I feel you can get away without superstars. Smart players can frustrate them.

It's pretty much a game of limiting mistakes.

 

I am happy not to have to take on RJ and his dwindling output, plus his remaining term.

We lucked out by trading the two guys that would have hamstrung our cap.

Lindholm is playing exactly like he was here, with the exception of not having Sharky to play with.

 

Guys like Pelletier and Coronato have to battle to get or stay in the lineup.

When Zary gets back, I expect to see both of them out of the lineup.

Even though playoffs is s bit of a pipedream, the coach is not bothering with dev.

He cares only about winning; not a bad idea but a lost season is when you evaluate.

 

Zary is such a key piece to this roster; he just does things so slick.

I don't know if Pospisil's future is on RW, but he is our new Tkachuk (pest).