2023 Prospects Tourney

[Thebrewcrew]

Bummer night from the Flames, but not exactly a surprise.

 

Full disclaimer I didn’t watch much of the game.

 

However, the blueline and G are very thin in this camp. Maybe have two NHL D

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Bummer night from the Flames, but not exactly a surprise.

 

Full disclaimer I didn’t watch much of the game.

 

However, the blueline and G are very thin in this camp. Maybe have two NHL D

Exactly what I thought looking at the roster. Diotte's an invite and looked the best to me.

Not much passing, just chipping the puck everywhere. Led to constant giveaways.

Tomorrow's a new day. Poor Radomsky stuck in a shooting gallery.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the Flames got something in Ciona. 
 

Reminds me a bit of Ferland at this age.

 

I watched him during the Memorial Cup.  Thought he was still a bit raw, much like Ferlie Freighttrain was to start.  It was a tough final and he couldn't get past the winning team.  Lots of giddyup.  Didn't much much of the game tonight, lost interest with the poor 1st play.    

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

Exactly what I thought looking at the roster. Diotte's an invite and looked the best to me.

Not much passing, just chipping the puck everywhere. Led to constant giveaways.

Tomorrow's a new day. Poor Radomsky stuck in a shooting gallery.

 

Last year we had more vets and I think Kuz and Poirier were the top D on the team not in the NHL.

Then again, this is not the AHL team, just the younger prospects and some AHL contracts.

I don't expect Coronato to play AHL.

Stromgren may be a looker this year.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I watched him during the Memorial Cup.  Thought he was still a bit raw, much like Ferlie Freighttrain was to start.  It was a tough final and he couldn't get past the winning team.  Lots of giddyup.  Didn't much much of the game tonight, lost interest with the poor 1st play.    

I think Ferland is absolute, best case.

 

I think he’s got a good chance to play, because he can be an effective bottom six player. Even if he’s a Duehr or even better, a Hathaway. That’s a win for where he was drafted. Especially during the pandemic, in a draft where the Flames missed on a lot of picks.

[jjgallow]

Glad they game some guys a chance in that first game.

 

Can't say I see a diamond in the rough there, but, at least it was an attempt.

 

 

[conundrumed]

Tight game, pretty even. Many moons ago I said I'd like Brady Stonehouse as an invite if he didn't get drafted. Wrong team!!

I thought Pilling and Duarte looked good as the no radar guys. Coronato looked good but starting to worry a tiny bit about the zero passing thing. Lipinski wasn't my fave pick in the 4th rd with a few competent RD still on the board (Allen, Mania). He's not helping that thought.

Fantilli with 3g, 2a to lead CBJ 10-7 over the Wings. Much faster pace in that game. No goaltending though.

Fantilli and Soderblom are way better than the competition. CBJ ridiculous depth at D with Jiricek, Zboril and Ceulemans. All 3 are great.

Bedard with the hatty in a 5-0 win over St. Loo. All 3 were that magnificent release and accuracy.

Fantilli and Bedard, in particular, are superstars in this setup. Haven't watched Carlsson yet.

Looong day of hockey. About to be another with an 11EST Dallas vs CBJ game, then Wings-Leafs and Minny-Hawks after.

4 racks of ribs just hit the smoker.lol

[jjgallow]

On 9/15/2023 at 11:17 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I don't expect Coronato to play AHL.

 

 

I also don't expect Coronato to play AHL, agreed.

 

But....would it be a good move?  It probably Would be a very good development move if we really, really wanted to develop him into a star player imho.  Let him develop with top minutes on the top line while he fills out and gets stronger (not that he isn't strong).     Opinion aside, for many reasons ranging from NHL needs to political, I'd expect to see him on the Flames this year.   And to the point @conundrumed made about his lack of passing, it Might be a concern but I don't know that we should worry yet.   I mean...who exactly was he gonna pass to in that lineup, if he's trying to impress right now.   Need to see his style of play when he is on a line with more equally skilled peers.

[jjgallow]

 

Can any one enlighten me on how Honzek did in these games?

 

I was...really, really hoping/expecting to hear or see positive things about him early on.

[tmac70]

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Can any one enlighten me on how Honzek did in these games?

 

I was...really, really hoping/expecting to hear or see positive things about him early on.

He was invisible in both games, I was hoping for more but overall he wasn't noticeable at all.  Ciona has been noticeable in both games, has just engaged, and can't question his competitive level. In last night's game, Coronato looked good, and Nikolaev, Klapka,  Ciona were noticeable. The PTO Pilling was actually quite a breath of fresh air as well. He's a  bigger guy who skates well, reads the plays well, very good on the PK could be a good find for a bottom-six type Trevor Lewis replacement maybe

 

One thing for sure is the D prospects and Goaltending are very very poor. This club is in dire straits with D prospects. Morin had moments but he's very very raw, he has a long way to improve. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I also don't expect Coronato to play AHL, agreed.

 

But....would it be a good move?  It probably Would be a very good development move if we really, really wanted to develop him into a star player imho.  Let him develop with top minutes on the top line while he fills out and gets stronger (not that he isn't strong).     Opinion aside, for many reasons ranging from NHL needs to political, I'd expect to see him on the Flames this year.   And to the point @conundrumed made about his lack of passing, it Might be a concern but I don't know that we should worry yet.   I mean...who exactly was he gonna pass to in that lineup, if he's trying to impress right now.   Need to see his style of play when he is on a line with more equally skilled peers.

 

There's logic to bring up a player through the AHL, but I would argue that more what you should do with a CHL or USHL bred player.  Those league are more about volume of games.  Typically, the players that go directly to the NHL are the top players in the league.  Very few.  With the NCAA, the players tend to be older and have played for a number of years past their junior days.  

 

Coronato, though less years in the NCAA, seems like he doesn't need a level a bit higher, but play where you develop chemistry and style with your lines and team.  Let's face it, the Flames farm team is not exactly going to wow you this year.  They may win a bunch from surprising goaltending or D that create offence, but there are few dynamic players.  Don you want Coronato to play with the type we see in the Prospects Tourney?  Doesn't seem like many that will feed or be fed.  Could really stagnate him.  

[jjgallow]

16 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

He was invisible in both games, I was hoping for more but overall he wasn't noticeable at all.  Ciona has been noticeable in both games, has just engaged, and can't question his competitive level. In last night's game, Coronato looked good, and Nikolaev, Klapka,  Ciona were noticeable. The PTO Pilling was actually quite a breath of fresh air as well. He's a  bigger guy who skates well, reads the plays well, very good on the PK could be a good find for a bottom-six type Trevor Lewis replacement maybe

 

One thing for sure is the D prospects and Goaltending are very very poor. This club is in dire straits with D prospects. Morin had moments but he's very very raw, he has a long way to improve. 

 

Thank you.

 

This isn't what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate it.    I realize we can only draw so much from a couple of prospect games, but all the same it's enough for me to walk back my stance.

 

I have been...unusually optimistic and supportive of Flames management since BT left and CC came in.   The root driver behind this is I think a new GM was needed, and any new GM should be given a chance.

 

We passed on Pellika.   To get Honzek.      Pellika could have gone top 10 based off consensus rankings.

Honzek could have flirted with the 2nd round.

 

CC had intimate knowledge of the WHL, and may have known if Honzek simply need more time to recover from his injury.  Now, he's had the whole offseason to recover from any said injury.

 

To draft Honzek because CC knew he had bounce-back ahead of him due to injury, would be brilliant.

To draft Honzek because CC covered those teams and was thus biased towards them, to me is borderlined unforgiveable.

 

 

I was really hoping it wasn't the latter.     Now I'm not sure.

 

 

Yes, it was just a stupid prospects game.  All the same, I'm walking back my support, and reverting to a neutral stance as of right now. 

 

Jury is out.

 

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Coronato, though less years in the NCAA, seems like he doesn't need a level a bit higher, but play where you develop chemistry and style with your lines and team.  Let's face it, the Flames farm team is not exactly going to wow you this year.  

 

Once again, I agree.  Lol.  But, it's chicken-egg.

 

If an organization rushes their best talent to the NHL so they can get cheap help in support roles, then, yes, their AHL team is going to suffer.

 

Our AHL team may not wow this year.  But if it doesn't, as far as I am concerned that is a conscious management decision.     It is entirely within their power to put good players and good prospects on that team.

 

so yes, I agree with you, but it shouldn't be a driver in the decision.   At a high level, it comes down to how they determine to operate and whether they want to make short term or long term decisions.

 

Anyway, whatever happens I agree that Coronato can crack the lineup this year and ultimately I'm excited to see what he does.

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Can any one enlighten me on how Honzek did in these games?

 

I was...really, really hoping/expecting to hear or see positive things about him early on.

He played with Klapka and Honzek, so I wasn't expecting much.  Klapka was probably the best on that line.  More because he can dominate kids.  He's huge.  If you wanted a Lucic size body to stand in front of the net or push the forecheck, he might be a good call.  Honzek will need to head back to junior.  I don't think he's a bust at all, just not really ready yet.  One year in NA hockey.  Needs more.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

Once again, I agree.  Lol.  But, it's chicken-egg.

 

If an organization rushes their best talent to the NHL so they can get cheap help in support roles, then, yes, their AHL team is going to suffer.

 

Our AHL team may not wow this year.  But if it doesn't, as far as I am concerned that is a conscious management decision.     It is entirely within their power to put good players and good prospects on that team.

 

so yes, I agree with you, but it shouldn't be a driver in the decision.   At a high level, it comes down to how they determine to operate and whether they want to make short term or long term decisions.

 

Anyway, whatever happens I agree that Coronato can crack the lineup this year and ultimately I'm excited to see what he does.

 

I wasn't saying that the reason you bring up Coronato directly is because we need cheap help.  I'm suggesting this is the best thing for a player like him.  He's not going to get 10 minutes tolling the 4th line.  He will get play with the best players that suit him and can bring the best out in him.  He's a shooter.  We have a lot of passers.  We have shooters that can't score.  He does need to feed players too, but that is making decisions on who is in the best position to shoot.  He won't get that in the AHL because the talent pool is more shallow.

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wasn't saying that the reason you bring up Coronato directly is because we need cheap help.  I'm suggesting this is the best thing for a player like him.  He's not going to get 10 minutes tolling the 4th line.  He will get play with the best players that suit him and can bring the best out in him.  He's a shooter.  We have a lot of passers.  We have shooters that can't score.  He does need to feed players too, but that is making decisions on who is in the best position to shoot.  He won't get that in the AHL because the talent pool is more shallow.

 

yeah I ...don't really want to have a big arguement about it but the only scenario where it is better for him is if he can crack the top two lines and if he is physically and mentally developed enough to protect himself at the NHL level.

 

If he makes the top 2 lines, has success at them, and doesn't get injured, then it's the right move.   And, this might happen.

 

Anything short of that, and it's not in his best interest at all.

 

 

Not even disagreeing with you as it's really hard to say right now.  I'm just saying that there is a line.   With regards to passers in the AHL, the GM could solve that with one phone call.  Should not be part of the decision.

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, tmac70 said:

He was invisible in both games, I was hoping for more but overall he wasn't noticeable at all.  Ciona has been noticeable in both games, has just engaged, and can't question his competitive level. In last night's game, Coronato looked good, and Nikolaev, Klapka,  Ciona were noticeable. The PTO Pilling was actually quite a breath of fresh air as well. He's a  bigger guy who skates well, reads the plays well, very good on the PK could be a good find for a bottom-six type Trevor Lewis replacement maybe

 

One thing for sure is the D prospects and Goaltending are very very poor. This club is in dire straits with D prospects. Morin had moments but he's very very raw, he has a long way to improve. 

Honzek is still growing physically. It appears his frame has barely begun to fill out. That pervades this level of play.

Coronato, Klapka and Ciona are perfect examples of guys that can look decent here because their bodies have filled out. Same with Duarte. Fantilli, Jiricek with CBJ, Soderblom with Detroit. Those that have matured physically are making it look like men vs boys, because it kind of is that. It's hard to read anything into it because it's not yet a level playing field.

I'll use Klapka as an example. He's having a really solid tourney but I really don't see any NHL qualities there. He's physically mature so that's his advantage in this tourney. 

I saw Stankoven, that we're all enamoured with, puck in open ice over center, Soderblom caught up, light shoulder and Stankoven was down, Soderblom going the other way. I know Elmer's an absolute unit at 6'8", but Stankoven needs to be faster/stronger on his skates. I tried to see that issue with Bedard, but, a) there aren't a ton of physically mature guys, and b) I think Bedard's leg strength is way higher than Stankoven's.

I hate to join the media because they're so often wrong, but Bedard is bringing a new element to the game. He's not McDavid, Gretzky or anyone else. He has his own thing.

As much as I dislike Tkachuk, I always liked that he'll bring the puck in towards his skates before releasing it.

Watching Bedard do just that, nobody currently in the league can match him. Nobody. Most guys are like Tkachuk, almost in slow-mo and lose velocity. Bedard is light speed and not losing velocity. Add in accuracy, Bedard is on another planet. Multiple Richard trophies. Goalies have zero chance. A millisecond to change direction and still moving at 70mph. The accuracy means they have no idea if it's coming glove or blocker side.

I hate bandwagons, but damn this kid has his own thing going on, and he doesn't need much space.

All 3 of his hatty goals we were shaking our heads. "What is a goalie even supposed to do"? You literally have about 0.3 seconds to jump towards him, then he'll dish it off and you're Blockchained regardless.

Can't wait to see him in preseason. I currently have zero idea how you're supposed to defend against him. Going to need a D specialist to not worry where the puck is, just stay with Bedard. Any Zetterberg's left in the league?

I'd sacrifice Lindholm from taking any O-risk, "just stay with that guy", personally. Try to frustrate him.

[travel_dude]

22 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

yeah I ...don't really want to have a big arguement about it but the only scenario where it is better for him is if he can crack the top two lines and if he is physically and mentally developed enough to protect himself at the NHL level.

 

If he makes the top 2 lines, has success at them, and doesn't get injured, then it's the right move.   And, this might happen.

 

Anything short of that, and it's not in his best interest at all.

 

 

Not even disagreeing with you as it's really hard to say right now.  I'm just saying that there is a line.   With regards to passers in the AHL, the GM could solve that with one phone call.  Should not be part of the decision.

 

Depends who is on the 2nd line doesn't it.

The third line may be something like Coleman-Backlund-Coronato.

Is that a bad thing?

Neither guy is a real sniper.

The addition to Coronato's defensive game could add dividends.

 

Anyway, we will see what he does in camp.

Pelletier wasn't good enough last season.

Ruzicka wasn't either.

The vets didn't need to do anything.

I wouldn't say our roster last season start was the best we had available.

[Heartbreaker]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

...

 

I tried to see that issue with Bedard, but, a) there aren't a ton of physically mature guys, and b) I think Bedard's leg strength is way higher than Stankoven's.

I hate to join the media because they're so often wrong, but Bedard is bringing a new element to the game. He's not McDavid, Gretzky or anyone else. He has his own thing.

As much as I dislike Tkachuk, I always liked that he'll bring the puck in towards his skates before releasing it.

Watching Bedard do just that, nobody currently in the league can match him. Nobody. Most guys are like Tkachuk, almost in slow-mo and lose velocity. Bedard is light speed and not losing velocity. Add in accuracy, Bedard is on another planet. Multiple Richard trophies. Goalies have zero chance. A millisecond to change direction and still moving at 70mph. The accuracy means they have no idea if it's coming glove or blocker side.

I hate bandwagons, but damn this kid has his own thing going on, and he doesn't need much space.

All 3 of his hatty goals we were shaking our heads. "What is a goalie even supposed to do"? You literally have about 0.3 seconds to jump towards him, then he'll dish it off and you're Blockchained regardless.

Can't wait to see him in preseason. I currently have zero idea how you're supposed to defend against him. Going to need a D specialist to not worry where the puck is, just stay with Bedard. Any Zetterberg's left in the league?

I'd sacrifice Lindholm from taking any O-risk, "just stay with that guy", personally. Try to frustrate him.

 

Sure is a good thing that Chicago got him. Remember that time that the Coyotes forfeited their first-round selection for allegedly putting draft eligible prospects through physical tests?

Love.

[rocketdoctor]

you can see Honzek and Lapinski play together.  Been the best line so far in this one.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

you can see Honzek and Lapinski play together.  Been the best line so far in this one.

 

He was out with Stromgren for a shift or two.  I'm assuming that wasn't just by chance.

I think it was Stromgren that scored, but missed it.

[rocketdoctor]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

He was out with Stromgren for a shift or two.  I'm assuming that wasn't just by chance.

I think it was Stromgren that scored, but missed it.

 

Yeah Stromgren with Lapinski and Honzek.

Kerins is centering Corranato and Parker Bell

 

 

[rocketdoctor]

Lapinski and Klapka standouts for me.

Think Kerins needs some time in the AHL.

 

Kuznetzov and Morin looked good on D.

 

 

[Sarasti]

Stromgren, Honzek, and Lipinski were the most dominant line for me.

Coronato and Kerins looked good on the PP.

Klapka had a good game but seems to hold on to the puck for a tad too long when he was putting moves on.

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

Lapinski and Klapka standouts for me.

Think Kerins needs some time in the AHL.

 

Kuznetzov and Morin looked good on D.

 

 

 

Kerins was forced into the ECHL last season and only got back in time for playoffs.