Conroy Do Something!

[Heartbreaker]

Bumping a Flames thread while we're getting buried in SPAM.

 

Love.

[conundrumed]

[conundrumed]

21 hours ago, sak22 said:

Here's the thing, we must trade all the pending UFA's so we don't lost them for nothing, I get it, but what is never considered is why teams are giving up great assets to inherit that problem.  You need a) a team that feels they are that player away from the cup, or b) the ability to talk extension now, which the players might not want to do.  Last summer only 3 players that I would consider marquee players were traded that were a year away from UFA, all of them went in the same trade, this year was 2 and both were RFA's who had a lot of power, returns in both are a little underwhelming.  I don't find the problem is Conroy, the problem is the expectations.  I find Hanifin right now is the perfect example, if he had interest in resigning this summer the whole fanbase would be focused on why he doesn't deserve $x for a contract or x for term, we would be all over his flaws.  But now that we expect a trade, he is a good 2 way defenseman, great skater can play any role, former top 5 pick who still has upside easily worth a 1st +.  We have to feel that other teams notice areas about the player which the fans don't like,  So I don't get the rush for a Regehr v.2 trade. 

Classic.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

 

Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam 

Eggs and Spam 

Spam Spam Spam Bacon and Spam 

 

Do you have anything without spam?

Well, the Spam and Eggs has just a little Spam .

 

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think it's unfair to put this on Conroy. He walked into a bad situation, one that isn't getting better and one that is almost entirely out of his control. 

 

If he had traded Hanifin by now i'm willing to bet there be even more angst around the return he got then the frustration that he has done nothing. 

 

100%

 

People were furious even about the Toffoli trade which I think we actually quite and excellent return ( I think we won the trade ).

 

If he starts making sensible sustainable long-term moves, fans are gonna be made at first and it will take a while for them to adjust to it.

 

There is no reason for him to panic sell.  There is a deadline but it's not today.   

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

100%

 

People were furious even about the Toffoli trade which I think we actually quite and excellent return ( I think we won the trade ).

 

If he starts making sensible sustainable long-term moves, fans are gonna be made at first and it will take a while for them to adjust to it.

 

There is no reason for him to panic sell.  There is a deadline but it's not today.   

 

Backlund said some odd things, some are more telling than others.

Won't sign an extention.

May decide to come next season to sign as a UFA with CGY.

Depending on how they did this season.

 

Anyway, trade him for the first part.

It doesn't matter if the 2nd part is true.

The 2nd part is pure risk.

With Lindholm, I think it's more like he requests a trade if we trade Markstrom than Backlund.

So, trade Backlund.

Still some teams out there looking for a 2C or at worst a 3C.

Many 3C's don't come close to his level.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Backlund said some odd things, some are more telling than others.

Won't sign an extention.

May decide to come next season to sign as a UFA with CGY.

Depending on how they did this season.

 

Anyway, trade him for the first part.

It doesn't matter if the 2nd part is true.

The 2nd part is pure risk.

With Lindholm, I think it's more like he requests a trade if we trade Markstrom than Backlund.

So, trade Backlund.

Still some teams out there looking for a 2C or at worst a 3C.

Many 3C's don't come close to his level.

 

I think the problem with that report is relying on the translation. 

 

I think Backlund was interested in staying they are just not on the same page with what it looks like.

[travel_dude]

47 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think the problem with that report is relying on the translation. 

 

I think Backlund was interested in staying they are just not on the same page with what it looks like.

 

Yeah, it's always an issue with translation.  Valimaki's was in Finnish, Backlund's in Swedish.

Unfortunate that they talk to the media in their home country.

It gets spun any number of ways.

But, the bottom line is we probably are looking at a trade regardless.

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam 

Eggs and Spam 

Spam Spam Spam Bacon and Spam 

 

Do you have anything without spam?

Well, the Spam and Eggs has just a little Spam .

 

I knew an elderly Irish woman that was a child in Belfast when the US troops flooded Ireland for training pre-entering WWII. So all of the families billeted the soldiers. She said the soldiers always shared their rations and the best was a tin of meat called "Specially Processed American Meat".

Now you know the rest of the story about the British Isles massive fondness for SPAM! And what I learn from being kind to random strangers. Also, putting tobacco on open wounds makes the cells repel the tobacco and close faster, thus heal faster.

Not sure how the Vikings fit in.

But as it relates to us, Backlund needs to be viking-shipped out, regardless of his takes. Won't be much for return because frankly he isn't worth a lot imo. He's been on teams with chances to win cups. Teams may want us to retain a bit for a better trade return.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I knew an elderly Irish woman that was a child in Belfast when the US troops flooded Ireland for training pre-entering WWII. So all of the families billeted the soldiers. She said the soldiers always shared their rations and the best was a tin of meat called "Specially Processed American Meat".

Now you know the rest of the story about the British Isles massive fondness for SPAM! And what I learn from being kind to random strangers. Also, putting tobacco on open wounds makes the cells repel the tobacco and close faster, thus heal faster.

Not sure how the Vikings fit in.

But as it relates to us, Backlund needs to be viking-shipped out, regardless of his takes. Won't be much for return because frankly he isn't worth a lot imo. He's been on teams with chances to win cups. Teams may want us to retain a bit for a better trade return.

 

And Hawaii loves their Spam.  Shipping costs and availability of fresh meat I guess.

 

Regarding his value, I think there are teams that could use him, but the market is drying up.

If retaining 50% gets us a better return, then so be it.  $2.75M is just that.

But I also think we have to be a bit more brutal and sell Hanifin for futures or a cheaper forward.

Tanev should be a TDL decision.  There are arguments either way about re-signing him short term vs trading him.

If you are not going to trade him, then re-sign him before the TDL.

Zaddy checks some boxes for me, so not ready to get rid of him.

Kylington depends on his return to NHL.

[manu12]

I'm just speculating here, but since there was no real information about contract numbers or even contract talks about Backlund, I always thought that Connie and Mikael had some kind of agreement to revisit this thing sometime in January there they have a better understanding where the team stands. They could easily have a deal, like if the Flames aren't a top 5 team in the west at that time, he gets traded to a contender. If that happens, there could also be a szenario that Backlund makes a Keith Tkachuk 2.0 and signs back after the season.

I think trading Backlund this summer doesn't make sense given the market for older players right now.

[V1nny83at5]

One last crack at the can for Trading Lindholm, Hanifin and Backlund out. Here's my [final] Arimchair GM Flames team for now: https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/746575?post_id=4304396

[kehatch]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:29 AM, cross16 said:

I think it's unfair to put this on Conroy. He walked into a bad situation, one that isn't getting better and one that is almost entirely out of his control. 

 

If he had traded Hanifin by now i'm willing to bet there be even more angst around the return he got then the frustration that he has done nothing. 

 

Toffoli is already out.  Backlund has publicly said he won't sign an extension until he sees how the season goes.  Hanifin has said he won't sign an extension.  Lindholm is on the fence and doesn't appear to be close to making a decision.  Tanev, Zadorov, and possibly Kylington are also pending free agents.  We have over 2 million invested into a back-up goalie we don't need who is going to take games from our NHL ready star goalie prospect. 

 

That is a lot of laundry to be doing in August and September.  It also leaves us rudderless with no clear direction leading into the season. We will measure Conroy's performance after the deadline.  But so far he has done very little to deal with the mess.  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Toffoli is already out.  Backlund has publicly said he won't sign an extension until he sees how the season goes.  Hanifin has said he won't sign an extension.  Lindholm is on the fence and doesn't appear to be close to making a decision.  Tanev, Zadorov, and possibly Kylington are also pending free agents.  We have over 2 million invested into a back-up goalie we don't need who is going to take games from our NHL ready star goalie prospect. 

 

That is a lot of laundry to be doing in August and September.  It also leaves us rudderless with no clear direction leading into the season. We will measure Conroy's performance after the deadline.  But so far he has done very little to deal with the mess.  

 

Sometimes less is more.

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Toffoli is already out.  Backlund has publicly said he won't sign an extension until he sees how the season goes.  Hanifin has said he won't sign an extension.  Lindholm is on the fence and doesn't appear to be close to making a decision.  Tanev, Zadorov, and possibly Kylington are also pending free agents.  We have over 2 million invested into a back-up goalie we don't need who is going to take games from our NHL ready star goalie prospect. 

 

That is a lot of laundry to be doing in August and September.  It also leaves us rudderless with no clear direction leading into the season. We will measure Conroy's performance after the deadline.  But so far he has done very little to deal with the mess.  

The part that makes me lose my mind is why do we constantly allow this to play out in the media? How about, "let's keep this between us so I can do something that will make us both happy. Any media leaks from your side and I'm sending you wherever I feel like rather than try to accommodate you. Let's not work against each other".

We're left at a big disadvantage in trade talks due to zero discretion. Even the SJ offer rumour for Lindholm. Why is this public?

The Flames are leaky. Conroy should be hunting down why and punt the problems. Even some internet randos are fairly accurate with, "my buddy in the know told me" news. It's pathetic.

As for the other, it's not surprising to have to wait until the dust settles on FA to have teams circle back to negotiate. Who wouldn't prefer to just sign someone rather than lose assets?

I think if the 4 players moving were our rudders, we were already sailing into a losing battle regardless.

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The part that makes me lose my mind is why do we constantly allow this to play out in the media? How about, "let's keep this between us so I can do something that will make us both happy. Any media leaks from your side and I'm sending you wherever I feel like rather than try to accommodate you. Let's not work against each other".

We're left at a big disadvantage in trade talks due to zero discretion. Even the SJ offer rumour for Lindholm. Why is this public?

The Flames are leaky. Conroy should be hunting down why and punt the problems. Even some internet randos are fairly accurate with, "my buddy in the know told me" news. It's pathetic.

As for the other, it's not surprising to have to wait until the dust settles on FA to have teams circle back to negotiate. Who wouldn't prefer to just sign someone rather than lose assets?

I think if the 4 players moving were our rudders, we were already sailing into a losing battle regardless.

 

player agents.   When your whole career is based around commission, the media have an in.

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Why is this public?

The Flames are leaky. Conroy should be hunting down why and punt the problems. Even some internet randos are fairly accurate with, "my buddy in the know told me" news. It's pathetic.

 

Conroy has the biggest mouth himself so... It starts with him.  The fact he said he's going to bounce ideas off his staff way more than BT ever did suggests to me he's going to be leaking a lot.

 

And so, based on Conroy's leaky style, I say it's ironically vital to sneak out massive amounts of blatant disinformation.  Like, intentionally flood the leaks both fake and real to the point where no one can decipher fact from fiction.  Fans can write off all Flames rumours as basely garbage.  It's the oldest trick in the book used by many American administrations to throw off spies.   Media can be weaponized if Conroy does it right.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The part that makes me lose my mind is why do we constantly allow this to play out in the media? How about, "let's keep this between us so I can do something that will make us both happy. Any media leaks from your side and I'm sending you wherever I feel like rather than try to accommodate you. Let's not work against each other".

We're left at a big disadvantage in trade talks due to zero discretion. Even the SJ offer rumour for Lindholm. Why is this public?

The Flames are leaky. Conroy should be hunting down why and punt the problems. Even some internet randos are fairly accurate with, "my buddy in the know told me" news. It's pathetic.

As for the other, it's not surprising to have to wait until the dust settles on FA to have teams circle back to negotiate. Who wouldn't prefer to just sign someone rather than lose assets?

I think if the 4 players moving were our rudders, we were already sailing into a losing battle regardless.

 

The Sutter situation puts a lot of focus on the players.  Media hounded them for bites.  After Sutter was gone, they doubled back to see if the ones trashing him were now on board.  Media in Sweden talking to Backlund.  Speculation about Lindholm.  Somehow Hanifin "says" he wants out, even though the speculation was that he's wanted to go to the USA for several years now.  Is that really new news?  We get the cash for clicks bunch here looking to say something like they are insiders.  Maybe Connie is a bit too loose with the interviews, but I think there is more read into what he says than what he actually says.

 

There are some good players out there waiting to sign.  The market for them has dried up a bit.  The trades that haven't happened yet are cursing them to have to wait.  Most of the teams that have cap spaces have their rosters almost complete.  So, the unsigned remain that way and the trades are being worked on quietly by the smart.  Probably the ones you hear the most about are subterfuge.  Bid up a player like Buffalo did with us and Eichel.  Teams dangling players that they aren't trading to mess up value of other deals.  Or just more noise from media hoars.  Like CAR shopping TT, so they can sign Karlsson.  What a joke.  

 

I think we will have a resolution to Hanifin and Backlund before the end of summer.  That sets the stage for finishing with Lindholm one way or the other.  The question becomes more of whether we go into the season without Dube and Tanev and Zadorov settled.  They can happen anytime, but if you are shippng any out, then you need to sign a replacement in FA.  

[cross16]

18 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Toffoli is already out.  Backlund has publicly said he won't sign an extension until he sees how the season goes.  Hanifin has said he won't sign an extension.  Lindholm is on the fence and doesn't appear to be close to making a decision.  Tanev, Zadorov, and possibly Kylington are also pending free agents.  We have over 2 million invested into a back-up goalie we don't need who is going to take games from our NHL ready star goalie prospect. 

 

That is a lot of laundry to be doing in August and September.  It also leaves us rudderless with no clear direction leading into the season. We will measure Conroy's performance after the deadline.  But so far he has done very little to deal with the mess.  

 

So this begs the question what is your preference.

 

Have this dealt with and live with lesser returns?

Play it forward to shoot for what is a fair return?

 

Not sure you can have it both ways right now. 

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

So this begs the question what is your preference.

 

Have this dealt with and live with lesser returns?

Play it forward to shoot for what is a fair return?

 

Not sure you can have it both ways right now. 

can you trade for lesser returns and weaponize the cap? I get there aren't a lot of teams that can afford the players. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

So this begs the question what is your preference.

 

Have this dealt with and live with lesser returns?

Play it forward to shoot for what is a fair return?

 

Not sure you can have it both ways right now. 

 

Maybe it's just me but it seems like a lot of teams signed players to 1 year deals.  So, these are all pending UFA's at the same time as Backlund and Lindholmk, etc.  These are the players that will get sold at the TDL where teams are on the bubble or out.  Keeping Backlund for TDL is too risky IMHO unless we have talks and plans to re-sign him.  Sure he has value to us staying for the season.  Sure, there are chances he is killing it and is a high value TDL piece.  If that's the case, why are we trading him?  He might not be the key to the cup, but maybe he wins us a series.  

 

I keep bouncing back and forth on this.  The only thing that really bothers me about the GM is we don't know in July what direction we are going.  It's not failure.  I just would like to know where we are headed.  

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

can you trade for lesser returns and weaponize the cap? I get there aren't a lot of teams that can afford the players. 

 

The cap arms race is a little daunting.  There are teams that can take any crap they like.  How do you compete?  

[MP5029]

On 7/18/2023 at 12:04 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Yeah, it's always an issue with translation.  Valimaki's was in Finnish, Backlund's in Swedish.

Unfortunate that they talk to the media in their home country.

It gets spun any number of ways.

But, the bottom line is we probably are looking at a trade regardless.

Added to that, in the many years Backlund has been here and spoken in English I have always understood his English so, I’m not convinced about the translation issue whatsoever…if it were I’m pretty sure he’d correct it immediately as it could negatively impact the contract negotiations, he hasn’t done that so I’m pretty confident in his lack of commitment to Cgy and therefore in the Trade him

sa soon as you get a good offer for him…same with Lindholm we don’t need waffles in the room we need rocks firmly committed to where they are at 

[jjgallow]

Ultimately, it's not the GM's job to appease us nutty fans.   We're gonna follow either way.   He kind of gave a "start of season" ETA, although it was loose.

 

That's October 10.

 

 

As the very nutty fans that we are, we will bash our heads against the wall between now and then wanting answers, this, that.  ETc.    This is our way.

 

For the GM, however, the first available trade is often not the best trade.

 

He needs to get it right.   A big, big part of getting it right is waiting for the right opportunity.  He's got months for that and he'll use them.   Even if it means waiting till training camp when teams find out which players show up with serious injuries and can't pass physicals etc.  the thing about off-season is there's always an off-ice surplus and an on-ice shortage.  If it's not clear now, it will be come the start of the season.

 

We'll continue to complain about inaction, until the moment there is action.   lol.   

 

Then, we'll complain about that action.   If it's what I hope it is, which would be for example a massive trade with Toronto for picks where we take on salary, fans will be super, super angry.   Far worse than how much they hated the Toffoli trade, which was a great trade imho that will pay off for years.

 

We'll see.   What I expect is a trade of moderation that keeps our future in mind.   As long as we get that I'll be happy.

 

 

I would suggest we all take really good care of our health so that we can all witness  and fully enjoy the next Calgary Stanley Cup.   Biggest favor conroy could do is trade for picks which would potentially speed that up by a year or two for us.

[Sarasti]

36 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Added to that, in the many years Backlund has been here and spoken in English I have always understood his English so, I’m not convinced about the translation issue whatsoever…if it were I’m pretty sure he’d correct it immediately as it could negatively impact the contract negotiations, he hasn’t done that so I’m pretty confident in his lack of commitment to Cgy and therefore in the Trade him

sa soon as you get a good offer for him…same with Lindholm we don’t need waffles in the room we need rocks firmly committed to where they are at 

 

Finnish is a different story, but Swedish and German are so similarly structured compared to English I cant see much getting lost in translation.

 

I have learned a fair bit of both and can clearly see why players like Backlund, Draisaitl, etc. speak damn near perfect English after a few years here.