Free Agent Frenzy

[jjgallow]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Lyle was a good first move to address this, but i'm intrested to see what the Flames do with the Wranglers as well. I think it's safe to assume your losing Pelletier and Duher there, in addition to loss of Philips. 

 

Dryden Hunt - Zary - Schwindt

Stromgren - Kerins - Klapka

Ciona - Rooney - Bishop

?? - Nikolayev - Pospisil

 

Poirier - De Simone

Solovyov - Lyle

Kuznetsov - ??

Poolman

 

That is pretty shallow and putting a lot of pressure on Stromgren/Ciona to be good early. Not to mention, like you suggested, it leaves them in a tough spot with call ups too. I would suspect the Flames are going to want to address this too. 

 

I know that doesn't account for Ben Jones and Pettersen yet, but I think the point still holds even with them in the fold. 

 

big time.

 

Needs work.

 

Now, some would say that our biggest depth issue is in the NHL.  This isn't an arguement against that, rather our depth issues in the NHL are caused by erosion at the pick/prospect/AHL level these last few years.

 

My #1 want is more picks, but my #2 wants is more depth in the AHL.

 

By that, though, I mean depth of young prospects that have legitimate NHL ceilings.  Don't need to be superstar ceilings but they need to have NHL ceilings.

 

IMHO,   this is PTOs, ELCs of young undrafted players, college players, FA, europeans.

 

I was glad to see we had more of this at our development camp this year, but I still feel we could have done a LOT better.   There is an enormous glut of talent right now of undrafted  18, 19, and 20 year olds.   in some cases 21 year old defencemen/goalies.     That have NHL ceilings.

 

I don't know why, it's the most I've ever seen.   after-affects of Covid?

 

Anyway.  If they want to snatch up legitimate NHL prospects on the cheap right now (for free), they can.   Interested to see what they do.  

 

https://theathletic.com/4648137/2023/06/29/undrafted-prospects-nhl-draft/

 

 

https://www.flohockey.tv/articles/10707606-top-college-free-agents-eligible-to-sign-with-nhl-teams-in-2023

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/ten-free-agents-impressing-in-europe-for-nhl-teams-to-consider

[robrob74]

I saw a rumour that Stone might retire and get a job within the Flames organization. He'd be one off the possible fill-ins for our 7th guy. 

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Wings fans already have the book title:

Filip Zadina: A Cautionary Tale".

Have to do what's best to develop the prospect.

Yzerman again piling in depth to let Johansson, Wallinder, Edvinsson, Mazur, Soderblom, Lombardi etc slow roast if needed. The depth has a bit of trade value if a kid beats them out.

Needing prospects to be your NHL depth isn't a great avenue for their development.

 

Depends on which prospects.  Duehr for example, was designed to be a depth player.  Pospisil, Klapka, etc are to be developed as depth players.  Using prospects developing as depth players as depth players at the NHL seems like a logical path to take.  Great for their development.

[cross16]

Julien Gauthier signed. Some rumors Flames were interested but he's off the board

 

 

[cross16]

well and right on que the Wranglers sign 5 players 

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/wranlgers-sign-multiple-players/c-345226780

 

Alex Gallant (played with them last year)

Matt Radomsky and Connor Murphy were 2 goalies they have in development camp this week. 

Mark Duarte Forward is who also in camp 

Jarrod Gourley. Has played in the AHL last couple seasons. Calgary kid which is neat. 

 

All of them are AHL signings not NHL

[jjgallow]

33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

well and right on que the Wranglers sign 5 players 

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/wranlgers-sign-multiple-players/c-345226780

 

Alex Gallant (played with them last year)

Matt Radomsky and Connor Murphy were 2 goalies they have in development camp this week. 

Mark Duarte Forward is who also in camp 

Jarrod Gourley. Has played in the AHL last couple seasons. Calgary kid which is neat. 

 

All of them are AHL signings not NHL

 

 

I like approximately half of these.

 

That is half more than I liked the last few years.    Glad they got it done.

 

Would still like to see them cast a wider net and try a little harder to go for the best prospects possible.

 

Still time for that though.   Radomsky looks good, most are young, and hard to pass up a Calgary kid who can play.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

I like approximately half of these.

 

That is half more than I liked the last few years.    Glad they got it done.

 

Would still like to see them cast a wider net and try a little harder to go for the best prospects possible.

 

Still time for that though.   Radomsky looks good, most are young, and hard to pass up a Calgary kid who can play.

 

All well and good, but there are 32 teams inviting players.  Some teams might be able to sign them to NHL deals.  Some are teams that will be in the playoffs.  Who knows what we are.  Not really an indication of the direction.  No rebuild is about it.  Maybe one team out there actually announcing a rebuild?  Not too loudly, as the fans don't want to hear it,    

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

All well and good, but there are 32 teams inviting players.  Some teams might be able to sign them to NHL deals.  Some are teams that will be in the playoffs.  Who knows what we are.  Not really an indication of the direction.  No rebuild is about it.  Maybe one team out there actually announcing a rebuild?  Not too loudly, as the fans don't want to hear it,    

 

32 teams only if you count edmonton 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

well and right on que the Wranglers sign 5 players 

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/wranlgers-sign-multiple-players/c-345226780

 

Alex Gallant (played with them last year)

Matt Radomsky and Connor Murphy were 2 goalies they have in development camp this week. 

Mark Duarte Forward is who also in camp 

Jarrod Gourley. Has played in the AHL last couple seasons. Calgary kid which is neat. 

 

All of them are AHL signings not NHL

I believe Duarte (post-jr) and Murphy and Radomsky (post university) went to the Wranglers late last season as tryouts.

 

[cross16]

Petterson and Jones sign after being extended qualifying offers. 

 

 

[MP5029]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:39 PM, cross16 said:

Julien Gauthier signed. Some rumors Flames were interested but he's off the board

 

 

Huge missed opportunity for Cgy on Gauthier 

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Huge missed opportunity for Cgy on Gauthier 

 

Huge in terms of his size, yes but imho barely an nhler.

[sak22]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Huge missed opportunity for Cgy on Gauthier 

Guy will be 26 to start the season and on his 4th team, don't get why some people can't acknowledge that there are 1st rounders that just aren't good.  This guy is 9 months older than Dube has way less points and way less games, and people had written off Dube 3 years ago, only difference is size and draft position, but I wish people would either have the patience with our own prospects as they do with other teams firsts, or at least acknowledge that other teams screw up in the first round and it isn't just the Flames who pick the Chucko's and Fata's.

[conundrumed]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:58 PM, jjgallow said:

 

 

I like approximately half of these.

 

That is half more than I liked the last few years.    Glad they got it done.

 

Would still like to see them cast a wider net and try a little harder to go for the best prospects possible.

 

Still time for that though.   Radomsky looks good, most are young, and hard to pass up a Calgary kid who can play.

You need to expound on this. All of the best prospects get drafted. You can only keep a minor eye on the best of the rest, late bloomers, etc. It is such a tiny part of the market that you can't spend a ton of time and $$ on it. You're doing fantastic to find just one that makes it.

So rather than make it a potential complaint that you have, explain where this further mining should exist and why you think it can be impactful. What does a wider net look like?

Another general thought for everyone. Is the Russian market going to go extinct? On second thought, I'll start a thread in NHL Talk...

[jjgallow]

27 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

You need to expound on this. All of the best prospects get drafted. You can only keep a minor eye on the best of the rest, late bloomers, etc. It is such a tiny part of the market that you can't spend a ton of time and $$ on it. You're doing fantastic to find just one that makes it.

So rather than make it a potential complaint that you have, explain where this further mining should exist and why you think it can be impactful. What does a wider net look like?

Another general thought for everyone. Is the Russian market going to go extinct? On second thought, I'll start a thread in NHL Talk...

 

To be fair this is the most positive I've been in years, elaborating this is an entire project in itself.

 

I agree with you that you're lucky to find one.  But, finding the next Giordano, for instance, is franchise altering.   So this is why I'd like to see top talent at these things.

 

I'll give you an example, a LHD D, and a guy who does a lot of Defence-type things right, like you like, and wears the A:     (an over-ager, yes)

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/483418/hudson-thornton

 

Would it be unreasonable to say part of the reason he was passed over is he's technically under 6 feet?   I feel it's a part.  And maybe not the most reliable indicator.   Also, simply put, D and G get passed over often until they are older and more developed.

 

I mean, to fully expand on this is a big job.  But I could probably put a list together of about 20 guys at this caliber.  Many of them over-agers, not all.   Goaltending too, we invited one guy who I though was just okay.

 

 

I'm not trying to start something, really it was worse the last few years.  quite a bit worse.   This year is better, I"m not trying to bash anyone.   But maybe it could still be improved.

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Guy will be 26 to start the season and on his 4th team, don't get why some people can't acknowledge that there are 1st rounders that just aren't good.  This guy is 9 months older than Dube has way less points and way less games, and people had written off Dube 3 years ago, only difference is size and draft position, but I wish people would either have the patience with our own prospects as they do with other teams firsts, or at least acknowledge that other teams screw up in the first round and it isn't just the Flames who pick the Chucko's and Fata's.

How dare you Satoshi Nakamoto on half of Detroit's 1st rders.lol

The general concept is to get as many 1st and 2nd rders as possible in 10 year spans and hope you don't miss on all of them.

I like the baseball analogy. You know that big juicy fastball's coming from a mile away and you're going to destroy it.

That slider wasn't even in the strike zone. Should have taken the walk, dummy.

Such is the hype and pandemonium of NHL drafts. You would think, at some point, year after year, jurisprudence would kick in. But nope, "he had a great tournament". I think the draft played out differently this year than a lot of years. Still some over-hyped guys, but a little more solid staying with scouting throughout.

The only one I'm kicking myself about ranking is Cristall. I didn't wanna put him high but did solely because of noise.

With Molendyk, I thought I was underrating him. Literally the 2 guys I should have went with my feeling rather than noise.

I'll try to take some time to address imo how teams drafted.

First up, what is Bedard's contract going to look like in bonus structure? I'm intrigued. Fantilli's is $3.5. Bedard's gotta be at least $5-6. Carlsson maybe similar?

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

First up, what is Bedard's contract going to look like in bonus structure? I'm intrigued. Fantilli's is $3.5. Bedard's gotta be at least $5-6. Carlsson maybe similar?

 

Not sure if this is exhaustive, but :

A level bonuses, $250K x 4 max (these are the top categories you could ever get)

B level - $2.5Mmax for things like Calder, Conne Smythe, 1st All Star team, top 10 in F goals, 

 

So that would be $3.5M max + reguar salary

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not sure if this is exhaustive, but :

A level bonuses, $250K x 4 max (these are the top categories you could ever get)

B level - $2.5Mmax for things like Calder, Conne Smythe, 1st All Star team, top 10 in F goals, 

 

So that would be $3.5M max + reguar salary

Thanks. Fantilli is at $3.2 in performance bonus. $950,000 cap and $4.15 in AAV per CF. So I'm guessing any overage applies to next year's cap?

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Thanks. Fantilli is at $3.2 in performance bonus. $950,000 cap and $4.15 in AAV per CF. So I'm guessing any overage applies to next year's cap?

I believe that is the typical response.  It can get dicey if your cap trouble is next year.  

[robrob74]

Reading about Lucic's interview with Francis on his way out on why Calgary tends to be a hard sell. There isn't much going on outside of the Flames.

 

I'm not one to be able to talk to that. But it's almost sounds similar to Hamilton. While the knock was he liked galleries on the road, but that could be part of it, is there enough culture outside of the Flames?

 

There is probably more than that. I also feel like most people can make things good for themselves, make their own fun. 
 

I get that things are different for some who make millions compared to those who make less, and someone with money might want huge variety. Or the type of variety they other athletes get in other cities. 
 

just pointing out what Looch was talking about.

[Thebrewcrew]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Reading about Lucic's interview with Francis on his way out on why Calgary tends to be a hard sell. There isn't much going on outside of the Flames.

 

I'm not one to be able to talk to that. But it's almost sounds similar to Hamilton. While the knock was he liked galleries on the road, but that could be part of it, is there enough culture outside of the Flames?

 

There is probably more than that. I also feel like most people can make things good for themselves, make their own fun. 
 

I get that things are different for some who make millions compared to those who make less, and someone with money might want huge variety. Or the type of variety they other athletes get in other cities. 
 

just pointing out what Looch was talking about.

It's the same way in Edmonton and Winnipeg. If you want a vibrant nightlife, those markets probably aren't for you.

 

Every league has markets like that though. In the NFL, the Green Bay Packers. If people think there's not much going on in Calgary, I'd like to introduce them to Green Bay. The Packers are Green Bay. In the MLB, St. Louis. They have the Blues, but that is a baseball town, even more that they lost the Rams. St. Louis isn't a city with the best reputation either.

 

Conroy talked about when he left Calgary to sign with LA. He said he was able to go to the beach and some NBA and MLB games, but with the NHL schedule it's something you rarely actually get to do. 

 

The biggest thing I think is success. Calgary and Winnipeg haven't had much of late. That's when it becomes harder to keep players.

[phoenix66]

53 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Reading about Lucic's interview with Francis on his way out on why Calgary tends to be a hard sell. There isn't much going on outside of the Flames.

 

I'm not one to be able to talk to that. But it's almost sounds similar to Hamilton. While the knock was he liked galleries on the road, but that could be part of it, is there enough culture outside of the Flames?

 

There is probably more than that. I also feel like most people can make things good for themselves, make their own fun. 
 

I get that things are different for some who make millions compared to those who make less, and someone with money might want huge variety. Or the type of variety they other athletes get in other cities. 
 

just pointing out what Looch was talking about.

I heard that interview ..he did make some good points .  Now while I'd hope people would do more research..but non Calgarians who only come in winter only know the cold .. they don't know the culture ..

I recall one of Johnny's Columbus interviews where he made the comment " nice to have other pro sports in town " ..  thought at the time it was a bit of a backhand to the stamps , Roughnecks etc ..but it's kinda true ..no NBA , no nfl , no MLB .. Americans for sure would be sensitive to that . 

Even Chucky. Always found it interesting you never heard about him out on the town .. Calgary isn't really a great singles place .. so many of his teammates were married ..or having kids ..tbh , and not implying anything here but did you ever see him with a girl? .. unless you're familiar with Calgary all you know is cold winter and Calgary stampede .. 

We don't even get big concerts here yet .. Canadian players at least know winter ... Or have a better knowledge of Calgary..and the proximity of places like Banff .kananaskis..etc 

 

Until they've been here , Americans especially are pretty lacking in knowledge of Canada 

[sak22]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Reading about Lucic's interview with Francis on his way out on why Calgary tends to be a hard sell. There isn't much going on outside of the Flames.

 

I'm not one to be able to talk to that. But it's almost sounds similar to Hamilton. While the knock was he liked galleries on the road, but that could be part of it, is there enough culture outside of the Flames?

 

There is probably more than that. I also feel like most people can make things good for themselves, make their own fun. 
 

I get that things are different for some who make millions compared to those who make less, and someone with money might want huge variety. Or the type of variety they other athletes get in other cities. 
 

just pointing out what Looch was talking about.

The Hamilton thing was a hypothetical thing, not an exact situation, I don't know if it was the city itself that rubbed him the wrong way as much as the attention that was on the team.  Never a good look to have a media employee insult a guys intelligence on a hot mic after a playoff game.

 

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Every league has markets like that though. In the NFL, the Green Bay Packers. If people think there's not much going on in Calgary, I'd like to introduce them to Green Bay. The Packers are Green Bay. In the MLB, St. Louis. They have the Blues, but that is a baseball town, even more that they lost the Rams. St. Louis isn't a city with the best reputation either.

 

Comparing the NFL small markets to the small markets of the NHL, NBA or MLB is an apples to oranges comparison.  For one the small markets don't struggle financially, and when it comes to player retention it really isn't a big deal.  Most of the elite quarterbacks of this century had spent the majority of their careers in small markets with the exception of Brady.  Cincinnati, Buffalo and Kansas City are all small markets in other leagues, but there is no threat of Burrow, Allen or Mahomes leaving in their primes.  The NFL can capitalize on those markets being 3 of the top teams, the MLB dreaded having the Royals as a top team, and likely would the Reds as well, and the Sabres wouldn't do much for the NHL.  The other leagues just struggle to get anybody in the US to care about any team outside your market.  The MLB and NBA do a little better because of the historic teams like Yankees, Lakers, Red Sox, Celtics who have built large fanbases outside of their market.  The NHL doesn't have those teams because there aren't really any US dynasties that built large followings.  Its really always going to be a struggle, they will never get a good audience for McDavid and the Oilers, they just had a ratings disaster for a final featuring 2 large markets and 2 American born stars.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Reading about Lucic's interview with Francis on his way out on why Calgary tends to be a hard sell. There isn't much going on outside of the Flames.

 

I'm not one to be able to talk to that. But it's almost sounds similar to Hamilton. While the knock was he liked galleries on the road, but that could be part of it, is there enough culture outside of the Flames?

 

There is probably more than that. I also feel like most people can make things good for themselves, make their own fun. 
 

I get that things are different for some who make millions compared to those who make less, and someone with money might want huge variety. Or the type of variety they other athletes get in other cities. 
 

just pointing out what Looch was talking about.

 

The solution is clearly more climate change and global warming.  The Pacific ocean should come to about 15 minutes to the West of Calgary. Like right outside Calaway Park should be the beach.  Greta told us it was going to happen in 5-years about 6-years ago...

 

...and I mean, I don't see any other way around it.  It is what it is.  It's damn cold here 8-months of the year.  Tkachuk was interviewed last summer after the trade about driving his Lamborghini 10-months of the year in Miami and he gave an instant smile to that thought.  His reaction said it all. 

 

Yes night life is lacking compared to the mega metropolises but 1.3-mil people is a decent size.  It's also a young population.  Really what's holding it all back is 8-months of winter.

 

The mountains are close (wish it was an hour closer) but it's not everyone's taste.  And when it gets too cold, the mountains are the last place to go.

 

And so, I feel it just really comes down to the weather for most.  There's really nothing to do 8-months of the year.  Hockey players strictly come here to play hockey.  This means if we don't draft and develop our own players, then we will have to overpay via UFA.  Calgary is not first choice for 95% of UFAs.  If we don't wake up to this reality and accept it, then we aren't ever going to be serious about winning the Cup.  We have to start operating like a small market team.

[conundrumed]

The, "he'd rather go to museums" take was the worst, most redneck take ever.

So what you're telling me, is that rather than constantly hanging out with the same old lugheads telling the same old jokes and stories about their imagined machismo virility, he'd rather go breathe in history and education and develop a sense of humility. He sounds horrible.

Regardless, there is a sense of isolation in Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg. If you love mountain use or fishing and hunting it is for you. Byfuglien is a great example. A lot of wives don't. Like many young men, they enjoy the metropolitan/cosmopolitan lifestyle. Not just nightlife and concerts, but varied shopping, theatre, festivals, markets, galleries, the whole kettle of fish.

To find more variety, say for a long weekend, now it's hrs of airports and flying. You can't just hop in the car and drive 4 hours. It gets you near none of that.

So the issue is pretty clear. You're locked into a situation of limited variety. Even more limited that you are recognized everywhere you go. That's a big problem. You can't blame them.

Imagine being the cause of a loss and your 10yo daughter gets comments at school. It's pretty sad.

Kids getting excited to meet their heroes is fun. Adults doing it is pathetic.

Plus, it's Canada. Rollerblading through Fish Creek Park with your spouse and a backpack for a romantic picnic with a bottle of wine gets you an open liquor in public fine and makes you want to demand a trade out of Canada.lol

There are many reasons to not like Canada's hyper-conservatism pretending to be liberal. It's not liberal at all compared to the rest of the modern free world. I'd rather play in the US too.