2023 Offseason

[Thebrewcrew]

First significant trade of the summer. This could shake some things loose.

[Thebrewcrew]

American star wants out of Canada, year away from UFA.

 

Tkachuk is a much better player for sure, but the return for Calgary absolutely smashes what Ottawa got.

Dorion was by no means in a position to strength,  but this has to be very disappointing, given what they paid a year ago

[tmac70]

1 minute ago, Thebrewcrew said:

American star wants out of Canada, year away from UFA.

 

Tkachuk is a much better player for sure, but the return for Calgary absolutely smashes what Ottawa got.

Dorion was by no means in a position to strength,  but this has to be very disappointing, given what they paid a year ago

Yeah, the trade is weak but if the player had only one place to go or of interest then he got as much as he would get. This is where the players have control of what goes on, the team has invested money, time and development to be held hostage to gain minimal return based on no leverage.  What makes it difficult and this may sound like sour grapes, but franchises in smaller centers such as ours it places you in a hole to obtain and retain good players.  You hope to draft and they stay but as we have seen 3 USA-born players have migrated to the US again.  THe other issue ids college players such as Fox with us, deciding to not show up at camp. Frankly that rule should be abolished and you either play for the club that drafts you, unless traded or you are not allowed to play in the NHL 

[Thebrewcrew]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Yeah, the trade is weak but if the player had only one place to go or of interest then he got as much as he would get. This is where the players have control of what goes on, the team has invested money, time and development to be held hostage to gain minimal return based on no leverage.  What makes it difficult and this may sound like sour grapes, but franchises in smaller centers such as ours it places you in a hole to obtain and retain good players.  You hope to draft and they stay but as we have seen 3 USA-born players have migrated to the US again.  THe other issue ids college players such as Fox with us, deciding to not show up at camp. Frankly that rule should be abolished and you either play for the club that drafts you, unless traded or you are not allowed to play in the NHL 

In a lot of ways, the Flames were fortunate that FLA came in with the "Godfather" offer, otherwise the Tkachuk trade would have looked a lot different. The rumored STL and CAR deals looked more like today's deal.

 

Covid did Canadian teams no favors with regards to retaining American players. It's been felt here and soon in Winnipeg. The Debrincat deal probably doesn't fit in that category, but still notable that he had no desire to stay on a young, promising Ottawa team

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

In a lot of ways, the Flames were fortunate that FLA came in with the "Godfather" offer, otherwise the Tkachuk trade would have looked a lot different. The rumored STL and CAR deals looked more like today's deal.

 

Covid did Canadian teams no favors with regards to retaining American players. It's been felt here and soon in Winnipeg. The Debrincat deal probably doesn't fit in that category, but still notable that he had no desire to stay on a young, promising Ottawa team

Michigan kid wanting to go home, It would appear OTT may have had no options in this trade. The fact that BT got what he got just tells me that the FLA GM knew the impact a Chucky would have and moved out to UFA's that they couldn't have afforded anyway. The first few years are polar opposites for each franchises, FLA to the SC final and our new found toys had defects lol

[Thebrewcrew]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Michigan kid wanting to go home, It would appear OTT may have had no options in this trade. The fact that BT got what he got just tells me that the FLA GM knew the impact a Chucky would have and moved out to UFA's that they couldn't have afforded anyway. The first few years are polar opposites for each franchises, FLA to the SC final and our new found toys had defects lol

STL new that Tkachuk wanted to be a Blue and Armstrong made an offer that reflected that. It was rumoured to be something like Scandella, Tarasenko and a 1st. Bill Zito recognized an chance to get a difference maker and didn't mess around.

 

Debrincat submitted a list like Tkachuk did. But in the end it came down to Detroit and NYI. Lou spent all of the Isles money so they weren't really an option. IMO the return wasn't substantial enough to not only send him a place he woulkd extend, but to a divisional rival. It's pretty much a rental package. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

First significant trade of the summer. This could shake some things loose.

 

Hope this gets the dominoes going.

 

Is this trade a comparable for Lindholm?  Debrincat was a two-time 40-goal scorer who averages around 70-points per season.  He's only 25-years-old and Lindholm is 28.  Lindholm plays a more complete game but Debrincat is the better pure scorer.

[Thebrewcrew]

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Hope this gets the dominoes going.

 

Is this trade a comparable for Lindholm?  Debrincat was a two-time 40-goal scorer who averages around 70-points per season.  He's only 25-years-old and Lindholm is 28.  Lindholm plays a more complete game but Debrincat is the better pure scorer.

I think Ottawa made the mistake of the sign and trade.

 

He wanted to go to Detroit, the Wings knew it and the purchase price reflected it. A Flames similar deal would be a 1,4, Dube and Kuznetsov. 

 

Debrincat had one year left of team control. They didn't have to send him to a team he would extend witth. Could have sent him anywhere. For me, it wasn't enough of a return to deal him to a divisional rival. Especially to a team they will be fighting with for a playoff spot.

 

Probably a fair comp for Lindholm. I would want a better prospect than Sebrango though. Something like 2024 1st, Andrew Peeke, Yegor Chinakov from CBJ

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Ottawa made the mistake of the sign and trade.

 

He wanted to go to Detroit, the Wings knew it and the purchase price reflected it. A Flames similar deal would be a 1,4, Dube and Kuznetsov. 

 

Debrincat had one year left of team control. They didn't have to send him to a team he would extend witth. Could have sent him anywhere. For me, it wasn't enough of a return to deal him to a divisional rival. Especially to a team they will be fighting with for a playoff spot.

 

Probably a fair comp for Lindholm. I would want a better prospect than Sebrango though. Something like 2024 1st, Andrew Peeke, Yegor Chinakov from CBJ

 

Ya I think it's a decent comparable.  If Conroy can do a bit better than the deal OTT got for Debrincat then it's a win.

 

I would target CBJ for sures.  BUF and OTT also.  Generally teams that are trying to exit their rebuild and win now.  And have some cap room and loaded with prospects.  CBJ is the better fit for Lindholm given the Gaudreau connection.

[Thebrewcrew]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I think it's a decent comparable.  If Conroy can do a bit better than the deal OTT got for Debrincat then it's a win.

 

I would target CBJ for sures.  BUF and OTT also.  Generally teams that are trying to exit their rebuild and win now.  And have some cap room and loaded with prospects.  CBJ is the better fit for Lindholm given the Gaudreau connection.

I like Buffalo as a fit, because I think you could pry a pretty good prospect out of them. 
 

They have a very young forward group at the NHL level and are loaded in forward prospects. Kulich would be fantastic, but Rosen or Ostlund maybe more realistic. The Sabres simply have too many young forwards, they can’t all play. Wait too long and they lose value because not all of them will turn out. Like LA with Turcotte

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Ottawa made the mistake of the sign and trade.

 

He wanted to go to Detroit, the Wings knew it and the purchase price reflected it. A Flames similar deal would be a 1,4, Dube and Kuznetsov. 

 

Debrincat had one year left of team control. They didn't have to send him to a team he would extend witth. Could have sent him anywhere. For me, it wasn't enough of a return to deal him to a divisional rival. Especially to a team they will be fighting with for a playoff spot.

 

Probably a fair comp for Lindholm. I would want a better prospect than Sebrango though. Something like 2024 1st, Andrew Peeke, Yegor Chinakov from CBJ

 

Yzerman no fool.   You build the best prospect pool in the NHL, guess what players wanna be there.

 

Looks like this is his final move to "end" the rebuild.  And it was a damm good one.

 

Even though we all know handedness doesn't matter lol

[robrob74]

14 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yzerman no fool.   You build the best prospect pool in the NHL, guess what players wanna be there.

 

Looks like this is his final move to "end" the rebuild.  And it was a damm good one.

 

Even though we all know handedness doesn't matter lol

they could still add Lindholm and solidify their C... using good Forward prospects.

[jjgallow]

41 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

they could still add Lindholm and solidify their C... using good Forward prospects.

 

Gimme a choice between trading with Yzerman or Treliving,  I go with BT every time lol.    Yzerman would either offer overvalued players or picks.  And Detroit picks are most likely going to drop a lot.

[Heartbreaker]

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Love.

[conundrumed]

I wasn't in love with the DeBrincat idea, but at 26-30yo at $7.875per works.

Kubalik HAD to go in this deal. Only need 1 one dimensional goal scorer so take the better one.

But the Sens couldn't have done better than Sebrango? Oh boy...depth chart

Edvinsson, Johansson, Wallinder, Pellika, Viro, Buium, Tuomisto, McIsaac, Sebrango.

Barely in the top 10. He was demoted to the E last year.

The only real value here is the 1st, if it hits.

Oof Ottawa, they're a division rival that obviously had zero interest in helping you. Circle back to Nashville for a bag of pucks. Or something. Even Kubalik gets healthy scratched on a team that struggled to score. He's the Michael Stone of fwds. And DeBrincat signs 4yrs at <$8.

You got rolled, hard. Ouch.

A Flames comp isn't even Dube and Kuznetsov. This is waay down Detroit's depth. Kubalik is bottom 6 on their roster at best.

Can't wait to hear the talking heads put lipstick on this pig.

[robrob74]

Let's put in an offer for Zadina? 

 

I think teams didn't bite on him because he was backloaded so much? He gave up on a lot of money and maybe teams weren't willing to pay that out? Maybe I am wrong? How much would be asking for in UFA now that his contract has been terminated? 

 

And what's with that, why haven't players done this in the past more often? I get it's a bad precedent, and can look like Cap circumvention. It just baffles me sometimes in these cases. 

 

Sign Zadina for 1-1.5? is that too much? Maybe a 2 year deal? 

 

I get that Conroy doesn't want to go over the cap too much. Something has gotta give soon. I sometimes feel he could be handcuffing the team by waiting too long. I get also not wanting to get a bad deal. It's just hard to wait is all. We all know the direction, and that it's a game of chess.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Let's put in an offer for Zadina? 

 

I think teams didn't bite on him because he was backloaded so much? He gave up on a lot of money and maybe teams weren't willing to pay that out? Maybe I am wrong? How much would be asking for in UFA now that his contract has been terminated? 

 

And what's with that, why haven't players done this in the past more often? I get it's a bad precedent, and can look like Cap circumvention. It just baffles me sometimes in these cases. 

 

Sign Zadina for 1-1.5? is that too much? Maybe a 2 year deal? 

 

I get that Conroy doesn't want to go over the cap too much. Something has gotta give soon. I sometimes feel he could be handcuffing the team by waiting too long. I get also not wanting to get a bad deal. It's just hard to wait is all. We all know the direction, and that it's a game of chess.

Min or <1mil on a 1yr is little risk. Surprised he hasn’t signed already. Maybe he’s going home??

[cross16]

Zadina signs. Not a surprise here as the Sharks probably can give him the best opportunity to rebuild his value. 

 

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Zadina signs. Not a surprise here as the Sharks probably can give him the best opportunity to rebuild his value. 

 

 

More opportunity on a rebuilding team. Wait a minute?

I shall bite my tongue.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

More opportunity on a rebuilding team. Wait a minute?

I shall bite my tongue.

 

Unfortunately, Connie is managing by not signing without cap going out.  It's not a bad thing, since BT paid a high cost to get rid of Monahan.  But, it leaves holes that can't just be plugged internally or by waiting and waiting.

 

I still can't figure what we are doing.  Are we trading out players to get younger, stronger, bigger, cheaper?  Is that the reason why the rumors have dried up, since the deals on the table are just a game of chicken?

[jjgallow]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unfortunately, Connie is managing by not signing without cap going out.  It's not a bad thing, since BT paid a high cost to get rid of Monahan.  But, it leaves holes that can't just be plugged internally or by waiting and waiting.

 

I still can't figure what we are doing.  Are we trading out players to get younger, stronger, bigger, cheaper?  Is that the reason why the rumors have dried up, since the deals on the table are just a game of chicken?

 

Rebuilds don't get announced until after the fact.

 

Zadina looked like an obvious target but, again, every team in the NHL passed him up so there's something to that.  IMHO there are much better options out there.

 

I will trust in the process as long as we don't make moves that sacrifice our future our make us older our damage our long term cap situation further.

 

So far so good.

[The_People1]

18 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Rebuilds don't get announced until after the fact.

 

So true. We will never admit we are in one until 5 years from now when we come out of one.

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Zadina looked like an obvious target but, again, every team in the NHL passed him up so there's something to that.  IMHO there are much better options out there.

Every team passed on his back-loaded 2 years of contract. $1.875 was the cap hit average, but the actual salary breakdown was:

Last yr: $915,000

This yr: $1.83mil

Next yr: $2.73

That's what teams balked at.

I expected a 1yr at <$1mil. The fact that it is $1.1 suggests to me that there were other offers.

So I'm not sure there are better risk/reward options currently.

Yzerman commented, "Filip values his career and hockey more than the money and I have a lot of respect for that".

You sure never hear about players leaving $4.5mil on the table. They just say whatever and go hide in the A. So his integrity and character definitely aren't in question. I hope he does well.

Detroit is deep and there definitely was no certainty for Zadina.
 

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Rebuilds don't get announced until after the fact.

 

Zadina looked like an obvious target but, again, every team in the NHL passed him up so there's something to that.  IMHO there are much better options out there.

 

I will trust in the process as long as we don't make moves that sacrifice our future our make us older our damage our long term cap situation further.

 

So far so good.

 

We passed over him at a horrible contract, like every NHL team did.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't have signed him at 1.1M.

Whether we tried or not, who knows.

 

If you are thinking we are in a rebuild, you probably will be upset to find out otherwise.

Maybe down the road, when every team is going through one.

Right now we are on the teeter totter.

Half on one side of 30, half on the other side.

We will add to each side, some getting over the 30 hump, some traded/released.

Then we add to the under 30 crowd along the way - prospects and trade and signings.

That doesn't signal rebuild.

Whether it's right or wrong.

[jjgallow]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We passed over him at a horrible contract, like every NHL team did.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't have signed him at 1.1M.

Whether we tried or not, who knows.

 

If you are thinking we are in a rebuild, you probably will be upset to find out otherwise.

Maybe down the road, when every team is going through one.

Right now we are on the teeter totter.

Half on one side of 30, half on the other side.

We will add to each side, some getting over the 30 hump, some traded/released.

Then we add to the under 30 crowd along the way - prospects and trade and signings.

That doesn't signal rebuild.

Whether it's right or wrong.

 

the fact that we are talking about Lindholm as our most critical remaining piece really tells you all you need to know about where we are at now.