2023 Offseason

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I think Hanifin is a 2/3/4 on the depth chart of a good team.  You want to pay about $4/$5-mil for someone like that.  Hanifin is probably looking at high $6 to $7-mil x 8-years.

 

It's just spending too much on depth players.

 

That's not realistic, unless you are re signing home grown talent. The only way that number is realistic is paying someone coming off ELC. You are not going to be able to buy UFA years from a top 4 dman for less than 5 million. 

 

The number isn't the problem on Hanifin it's the term. 

[jjgallow]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

That's not realistic, unless you are re signing home grown talent. The only way that number is realistic is paying someone coming off ELC. You are not going to be able to buy UFA years from a top 4 dman for less than 5 million. 

 

The number isn't the problem on Hanifin it's the term. 

 

Hard to build a cup team without an ELC pipeline.   Market cap won't let you these days.

 

That should imho be our focus (prospects), rather than trying to "fix" our "situation".     We can't UFA our way out of this, all that will do is make the situation last far longer.

 

 

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

I think i'd prefer that to having another anchor contract like this on the books. But admittedly I am not a big Hanifin fan. 

He is still only 26 so signing him to an 8 year deal buys his remaining prime years and takes him to 34. I am a little higher on him than you for sure, and I think that $6m range is the going rate for top 4 defense. 
 

They are going to have to pay someone because they don’t have any internal options to take too 4 spots.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That's not realistic, unless you are re signing home grown talent. The only way that number is realistic is paying someone coming off ELC. You are not going to be able to buy UFA years from a top 4 dman for less than 5 million. 

 

The number isn't the problem on Hanifin it's the term. 

 

Right, so do that.  Draft, develop, and then pay them when it's time.  Trade for those types (like we did with Hanifin from CAR).  We paid Tanev $4.5-mil x 4 from UFA.  Those are much preferred to paying Hanifin money + term.

[JTech780]

I would prefer signing Hanifin long term than Lindholm personally.

 

Though I was talking to a friend and we were discussing what Colorado might do, they have Makar signed at $9m, Girard at $5m and Manson at $4.5m, they are also going to have to pay Toews a big raise after this year, so where does Byram fit? Can we get Byram for Lindholm? That would make Hanifin more expendable.

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Right, so do that.  Draft, develop, and then pay them when it's time.  Trade for those types (like we did with Hanifin from CAR).  We paid Tanev $4.5-mil x 4 from UFA.  Those are much preferred to paying Hanifin money + term.

 

 

3 years ago. Prices have gone up since then and will continue to do so as the escrow is paid back. Rasmus Dahlin is rumored to be close to an extension paying him 10 mill AAV. 

 

Even coming off ELC, it's very hard to get good top 4 dman for less than 5. Market has shifted quite a bit, especially for dman, since the COVID years. 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

He is still only 26 so signing him to an 8 year deal buys his remaining prime years and takes him to 34. I am a little higher on him than you for sure, and I think that $6m range is the going rate for top 4 defense. 
 

They are going to have to pay someone because they don’t have any internal options to take too 4 spots.

 

 

They should be exploring trades to fix this, not giving out bad contracts. 

 

But yes this likely comes down to how we view Hanifin and why we'll likely agree to disagree. I find him a very avg player so not really interested in sinking a lot of money and term into that. 

 

Plus they need to change the mix in their top 4. Weegar, Rasmus and Hanifin are too similar. 

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I would prefer signing Hanifin long term than Lindholm personally.

 

Though I was talking to a friend and we were discussing what Colorado might do, they have Makar signed at $9m, Girard at $5m and Manson at $4.5m, they are also going to have to pay Toews a big raise after this year, so where does Byram fit? Can we get Byram for Lindholm? That would make Hanifin more expendable.

 

Byram has a bad concussion/migraine history.  Buyer beware for sures.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

3 years ago. Prices have gone up since then and will continue to do so as the escrow is paid back. Rasmus Dahlin is rumored to be close to an extension paying him 10 mill AAV. 

 

Even coming off ELC, it's very hard to get good top 4 dman for less than 5. Market has shifted quite a bit, especially for dman, since the COVID years. 

 

Trues enough.

 

Elites: $9-mil+

1/2: $7-$9-mil (Weegar, Andersson)

2/3/4: $5-$7-mil (Hanifin)

3/4/5: $3-$5-mil (Zadorov, Kylington)

 

That's how it looks right now.  And I'd much prefer we challenge a young 3/4/5 to give us 2/3/4 worth of production than to pay Hanifin who we know he's average at best.

[jjgallow]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Right, so do that.  Draft, develop, and then pay them when it's time.  Trade for those types (like we did with Hanifin from CAR).  We paid Tanev $4.5-mil x 4 from UFA.  Those are much preferred to paying Hanifin money + term.

 

Hate to say it, but, in a Canadian market we might need to Draft, Develop, and then trade or do short-term deal.  Make the absolute most of the ELCs, and get high returns for them at the slightest hint of a UFA situation.

 

No Canadian team has won the cup in a long time although some have come close:

 

Maybe need a system that relies on a revolving pipeline of youth

 

 

We could also do better at drafting/acquiring home-grown talent.   Sorry to bring up Cale Makar again.  

 

But there Are guys in this league who would take hometown discounts because we locally produce a decent amount of NHL talent.    I think Canadian teams need to leverage that more if they want to win the UFA wars.

 

 

 

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Trues enough.

 

Elites: $9-mil+

1/2: $7-$9-mil (Weegar, Andersson)

2/3/4: $5-$7-mil (Hanifin)

3/4/5: $3-$5-mil (Zadorov, Kylington)

 

That's how it looks right now.  And I'd much prefer we challenge a young 3/4/5 to give us 2/3/4 worth of production than to pay Hanifin who we know he's average at best.

Like Darnell Nurse

[cross16]

With Columbus acquiring both Provorov and Severson they appear to have a log jam. Wonder if the Flames would be able to pry Adam Boqvist out, or Jake Bean. 

 

Bean definitely appears to be the odd man out here but I can't imagine the Jackets would be in a rush to move Boqvist. 

[sak22]

43 minutes ago, cross16 said:

With Columbus acquiring both Provorov and Severson they appear to have a log jam. Wonder if the Flames would be able to pry Adam Boqvist out, or Jake Bean. 

 

Bean definitely appears to be the odd man out here but I can't imagine the Jackets would be in a rush to move Boqvist. 

We've had GM's sons, there are cases of coaching sons, but I feel the CEO is a whole new ballgame.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, sak22 said:

We've had GM's sons, there are cases of coaching sons, but I feel the CEO is a whole new ballgame.

 

Jake Bean is John Bean's son?

[Sarasti]

The Severson deal makes me nervous about a Hanifin extension.

Severson played sheltered minutes mostly on the 3rd pair for a good Devils team.

By all accounts Hanifin is the superior player.

The only thing Severson has on him is the RHS

[The_People1]

58 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Like Darnell Nurse

 

Lol Oilers finding ways to never win a Cup.  Nurse is a 3/4/5 guy on most nights.  The worst contract in the NHL.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hate to say it, but, in a Canadian market we might need to Draft, Develop, and then trade or do short-term deal.  Make the absolute most of the ELCs, and get high returns for them at the slightest hint of a UFA situation.

 

No Canadian team has won the cup in a long time although some have come close:

 

Maybe need a system that relies on a revolving pipeline of youth

 

 

We could also do better at drafting/acquiring home-grown talent.   Sorry to bring up Cale Makar again.  

 

But there Are guys in this league who would take hometown discounts because we locally produce a decent amount of NHL talent.    I think Canadian teams need to leverage that more if they want to win the UFA wars.

 

I think all small market teams need to draft and develop.  Flames have proved UFAs mainly come to Calgary if we overpay.  Yet, BT chose the UFA path often.

 

We need to manage this team more like CAR.  Be very cap cautious.  Always inject youth and say goodbye to UFAs.  

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Jake Bean is John Bean's son?

He is

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

He is

 

Interesting.  Bringing Jake here could cause conflicts of interest from contracts to ice time.  Though he could be a cheaper replacement for Hanifin.

[cross16]

40 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Interesting.  Bringing Jake here could cause conflicts of interest from contracts to ice time.  Though he could be a cheaper replacement for Hanifin.

 

I have enough faith in Bean that he wouldn't' be going down to the front office and telling them to play or pay his son. But fair to ask what does it do to the room. Would guys shut him out a bit knowing he can share stuff with his dad. 

 

I'm not Jake Bean's biggest fan, but he does fill a need and he'd likely be cheap with potential for more upside. Don't think he replaces Hanifin but he gives you a potential PP QB. 

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I have enough faith in Bean that he wouldn't' be going down to the front office and telling them to play or pay his son. But fair to ask what does it do to the room. Would guys shut him out a bit knowing he can share stuff with his dad. 

 

I'm not Jake Bean's biggest fan, but he does fill a need and he'd likely be cheap with potential for more upside. Don't think he replaces Hanifin but he gives you a potential PP QB. 

 

What kind of injury did Bean have last season?  He only played 14-games.  I would be most concerned with that.

 

Maybe get Bean + 3oa from CBJ.  Price starts with Lindholm of course.

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What kind of injury did Bean have last season?  He only played 14-games.  I would be most concerned with that.

 

Maybe get Bean + 3oa from CBJ.  Price starts with Lindholm of course.

 

Shoulder. He tore his labrum. 

 

I think the 3OA is a totally pipe dream personally. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hard to build a cup team without an ELC pipeline.   Market cap won't let you these days.

 

That should imho be our focus (prospects), rather than trying to "fix" our "situation".     We can't UFA our way out of this, all that will do is make the situation last far longer.

 

 

I think UFA is the very last piece, or maybe it is a trade where you're definitely a perennial contender that gets you over the edge. But it's when a team builds in through ELC to match the talent you've mostly drafted, that those moves then can happen. 
 

BT tried to fill holes early without fully developing that ELC pipeline, and getting specific needs at least minimally met. I guess that means average quality NHLers... 

 

but by only filling one hole, leaving other holes elsewhere made us middling. 
 

I don't think the Adams Coach of the Year team was actually a perennial contender, so I guess you try reward them as best as possible for the year, but it was a high price to pay for it, in the long run. I think some of the targets were good, but hard when you can't retain them, and end up setting the long term team back...

[420since1974]

I've been following the Flames since they arrived in Calgary and have seen them win a Stanley Cup, so I'm good.

At this point in time, I just want to be entertained.

What I'd like to see stop happening is:

1. Trading draft picks. Rebuild our dismal prospect pool.

2. Allowing top 6 forwards and top 4 defence-men walk for nothing at UFA. Trade them for draft picks if they show the slightest hesitation in re-signing.

3. Giving out long term anchor contracts to players over 28 who are nearing the back end of their careers.

 

It will take 5 - 7 years for this to rectify itself, but I'm ready for the pain, as opposed to re-living the past 20 years.

[sagacity7]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:41 PM, 420since1974 said:

I've been following the Flames since they arrived in Calgary and have seen them win a Stanley Cup, so I'm good.

At this point in time, I just want to be entertained.

What I'd like to see stop happening is:

1. Trading draft picks. Rebuild our dismal prospect pool.

2. Allowing top 6 forwards and top 4 defence-men walk for nothing at UFA. Trade them for draft picks if they show the slightest hesitation in re-signing.

3. Giving out long term anchor contracts to players over 28 who are nearing the back end of their careers.

 

It will take 5 - 7 years for this to rectify itself, but I'm ready for the pain, as opposed to re-living the past 20 years.

I agree with what we’ve seen over the years and I’m hoping Conroy can change that going forward.

 

I’m not saying these are good articles, however, THW and Hockey Buzz are writing comments about AZ being interested in Huberdeau. The article from THW has the Flames sending Huberdeau, Kylington, Phillips and the 16th overall for AZ’s #12 overall and their 3rd round pick.

It appears AZ would be taking on cap to reach the floor and the Flames are moving out questionable or problematic players to get a fresh start and vastly opening up cap space. Comments are ridiculing the proposal in a very bad way, however, I’m not so sure the two sides aren’t talking.

 

Personally, if the Flames are thinking of this would they not try to get what may be a problem in Keller? He may not be happy with the current situation. I could see AZ sending Keller and a 3rd to Calgary for Huberdeau, Kylington, Phillips and the 16th overall. AZ could flip Huberdeau to another team as well.

 

Before you all attack this one and dissect it, if it happens before July 1 the NMC’s of Huberdeau and Keller don’t matter. Phillips isn’t a UFA until July 1.