2023 Offseason

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I think Tanev was always injury prone. That type of D isn't always bad. I liked Engelland when he was with the Flames. 
 

I think that type of D works when insulating youth. We don't really have that in the system ready next season. I wouldn't sign him long term, maybe a 3 year deal? 
 

I really like Tanev, but he's breaking down a lot. 

 

Gudas is one of those guys you hate to play against nd love to have with you.  He's gonna cost you to sign.  But the type is right.  The age isn't helping.

[tmac70]

FWIW, If your UFA's for next season are not signed then you have no option but to trade them. With the mess of Sutter and Tre a new GM has inherited a complete mess. Out of all of them, Lindholm is the only one that I would be the most concerned with. If he isn't committed by June 1 he's out of here, the same goes with Backs. Fact that this team doesn't like to rebuild you may not have a Fing option. The last thing this organization needs to hear is let me think about it from a UFA. Riding next season out and just taking a chance of limping into the playoffs is utterly foolish. Drink all the Kool-aid you want this club is miles away from being a contender. 

 

The other thing that's concerning is how much stock individuals on here are putting into Kylington. The guy is not a game-changer in any sense, what was his issue last year, and has he completely recovered?  

 

The largest question is what are Lindholm, Hanifin, Toffoli, Tanev, Backs, Zadorov, Vldar, kylington, Dube, Ruzika worth.  Who can they be traded to and what is the return? We have nothing in the pipeline to replace the two centers or the 3 Dman we could lose. When you look at this club in the state its in the largest mess has been created by the GM 

 

 

[conundrumed]

Do we seriously want to extend Backlund? He'd be 35.5 when the extension kicks in.

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Yeah, that is what I was thinking.  The value of Hanifin is to a team that doesn't have a young offensive D but has wealth of forwards.  The Backlund thingy is trading a vet to a young team that has lots of D.  It may not make us better in the interim.  

 

imho tdl trades are generally trades for time (or cap space, but ususally time).

 

X team needs to win the cup.  Your team needs to improve in the coming years.  A trade is born.

 

Imho one of the best examples, although not technically on the deadline, was the Niewendyk trade.   Both teams won the cup out of it, at different points in time, because of this trade (it was in).

 

Imho the best kind of trade you can do here is just that, a trade for a prospect that is not ready to have an impact that year, but has a high ceiling.  Any position.

 

The next best is to trade with an older team, for a pick a few years out.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

FWIW, If your UFA's for next season are not signed then you have no option but to trade them. With the mess of Sutter and Tre a new GM has inherited a complete mess. Out of all of them, Lindholm is the only one that I would be the most concerned with. If he isn't committed by June 1 he's out of here, the same goes with Backs. Fact that this team doesn't like to rebuild you may not have a Fing option. The last thing this organization needs to hear is let me think about it from a UFA. Riding next season out and just taking a chance of limping into the playoffs is utterly foolish. Drink all the Kool-aid you want this club is miles away from being a contender. 

 

The other thing that's concerning is how much stock individuals on here are putting into Kylington. The guy is not a game-changer in any sense, what was his issue last year, and has he completely recovered?  

 

The largest question is what are Lindholm, Hanifin, Toffoli, Tanev, Backs, Zadorov, Vldar, kylington, Dube, Ruzika worth.  Who can they be traded to and what is the return? We have nothing in the pipeline to replace the two centers or the 3 Dman we could lose. When you look at this club in the state its in the largest mess has been created by the GM 

 

 

it's a massive miss step to have so many players run to free agency at the same time, and not buying more years. I get they may have signed cheaper cap rates to do so, but that just meant the Flames were were playing with Credit that now we have to pay off. 
 

you're right, Klilington has played one full season, who is to say he'd play the same way. How many coaches didn't trust him? Although, I felt he was ready before Ward so there is that. But still, just wondering if the next coach would. 
 

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Do we seriously want to extend Backlund? He'd be 35.5 when the extension kicks in.

I don't think so. 
id deal him at the TDL.

 

Deal them all at the TDL I guess?

but we will be close to first in the division because all the penders will be playing for their next contract. 
 

now I get why BT signed shorter deals. Get them to play hard in contract years and catapult the team back into the playoffs. 

[conundrumed]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think so. 
id deal him at the TDL.

 

Deal them all at the TDL I guess?

but we will be close to first in the division because all the penders will be playing for their next contract. 
 

now I get why BT signed shorter deals. Get them to play hard in contract years and catapult the team back into the playoffs. 

It would really be nice to play with Chicago at the draft table. They really can't just get Bedard and a bunch of picks 3 years out can they? Or they'll be buying heavily in UFA. They need to fill out a roster and are likely about $25mil short of the cap floor. Someone needs to play with them. I could see the Jets playing along, hard to say.

But they should be WIDE open to do business to support Bedard. With our roster, I'd be open to anything, realistically. We're pretty disjointed as it stands. Players don't really compliment each other in the top 9 and D pairings.

Hire a GM, make a plan!!

[jjgallow]

21 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think so. 
id deal him at the TDL.

 

Deal them all at the TDL I guess?

but we will be close to first in the division because all the penders will be playing for their next contract. 
 

now I get why BT signed shorter deals. Get them to play hard in contract years and catapult the team back into the playoffs. 

 

 too old to trade.  Unless another team picks up BT  😅

 

let him play his days out and offer him positions in the organization.   I have a lot of respect for Backlund.  He had one of the biggest issues with Sutter and yet never spoke publicly about it.

[conundrumed]

56 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

 too old to trade.  Unless another team picks up BT  😅

 

let him play his days out and offer him positions in the organization.   I have a lot of respect for Backlund.  He had one of the biggest issues with Sutter and yet never spoke publicly about it.

With a pretty thin prospect pool, we seriously aren't in a position to walk players to retirement. We're walking Tanev to retirement too. We just can't stay on the same path. If there were loyalty in this game, we'd still have JG and Tkachuk. There just isn't so we really need to break this morality code that most other teams/players don't follow when it comes down to it. I'd trade Backlund yesterday if he wouldn't do a 1 year extension for $2.5. He won't be a $5mil player. Only Flames fans overrate him. No one else does. He's a middle of the road aging quickly 3C. Where is the upside to that?

I'd take a 2nd honestly, because it's getting close to zero.

[jjgallow]

38 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

With a pretty thin prospect pool, we seriously aren't in a position to walk players to retirement. We're walking Tanev to retirement too. We just can't stay on the same path. If there were loyalty in this game, we'd still have JG and Tkachuk. There just isn't so we really need to break this morality code that most other teams/players don't follow when it comes down to it. I'd trade Backlund yesterday if he wouldn't do a 1 year extension for $2.5. He won't be a $5mil player. Only Flames fans overrate him. No one else does. He's a middle of the road aging quickly 3C. Where is the upside to that?

I'd take a 2nd honestly, because it's getting close to zero.

 

We can't walk that path but if we trade him for almost nothing (which is what you're suggesting), then we are walking that path.  And I am very doubtful that he would even get a 2nd.  At this point whether we do or don't, is... inconsequential.   That book is already closed.

 

So if we're not going to walk the same path, that means we have to make the hard decisions.  Backlund's not a hard decision, he's what selling at the bottom looks like.   The hard decisions are Toffoli, Lindholm, Hanifin...even Rasmus.

The hard decision is a goalie.  Maybe even Wolf.   Maybe not.

 

Buy low sell high is hard for a reason.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

it's a massive miss step to have so many players run to free agency at the same time, and not buying more years. I get they may have signed cheaper cap rates to do so, but that just meant the Flames were were playing with Credit that now we have to pay off. 
 

you're right, Klilington has played one full season, who is to say he'd play the same way. How many coaches didn't trust him? Although, I felt he was ready before Ward so there is that. But still, just wondering if the next coach would. 
 

 

I would counter this and say it’s smart. We are not talking about core pieces here we are taking about supporting pieces and generally players 30 years and older. Think it’s smart because it gives you a chance to reset 

it’s only a misstep to have all your core/young players come due at the same time. 

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I would counter this and say it’s smart. We are not talking about core pieces here we are taking about supporting pieces and generally players 30 years and older. Think it’s smart because it gives you a chance to reset 

having

it’s only a misstep to have all your core/young players come due at the same time. 

i think the problem lies more in the fact that the team wants to make the playoffs every year and while a reset is nice, I think it means digging deep into UFA to fill the needs which is costly, since we used so much draft capitol in the last few years, the cupboards aren't bare, but they aren't full of high end prospects which now seems like we won't have a star for many years. 

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

We can't walk that path but if we trade him for almost nothing (which is what you're suggesting), then we are walking that path.  And I am very doubtful that he would even get a 2nd.  At this point whether we do or don't, is... inconsequential.   That book is already closed.

 

So if we're not going to walk the same path, that means we have to make the hard decisions.  Backlund's not a hard decision, he's what selling at the bottom looks like.   The hard decisions are Toffoli, Lindholm, Hanifin...even Rasmus.

The hard decision is a goalie.  Maybe even Wolf.   Maybe not.

 

Buy low sell high is hard for a reason.

I say I agree with a lot here, but it might be why, if Backlund is having a good year, trading at the deadline would be great. He's a great 3rd line C and if injuries happen he can easily step into 2nd line C on a good team bordering on Cup contender.
 

That's where his value lies...

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I would counter this and say it’s smart. We are not talking about core pieces here we are taking about supporting pieces and generally players 30 years and older. Think it’s smart because it gives you a chance to reset 

it’s only a misstep to have all your core/young players come due at the same time. 

 

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

i think the problem lies more in the fact that the team wants to make the playoffs every year and while a reset is nice, I think it means digging deep into UFA to fill the needs which is costly, since we used so much draft capitol in the last few years, the cupboards aren't bare, but they aren't full of high end prospects which now seems like we won't have a star for many years. 

 

I agree it's smart because it gives the organization a chance to reset if things aren't going well.  And I also agree it's stupid to align all contracts because who are we fooling?  This organization will and was never going to reset at any cost.  So why even align the contracts in the first place?

 

We so we are currently at that point in time where the cliff of contracts are before us and we are an average team at best.  Ignore the contracts completely and keep pushing for a winner with the same players!

[cross16]

18 hours ago, robrob74 said:

i think the problem lies more in the fact that the team wants to make the playoffs every year and while a reset is nice, I think it means digging deep into UFA to fill the needs which is costly, since we used so much draft capitol in the last few years, the cupboards aren't bare, but they aren't full of high end prospects which now seems like we won't have a star for many years. 

 

Which is a separate issue entirely and one I would agree with.

 

but one of the biggest priorities a GM has to have in a cap system is you have to give yourself flexibility. Offsetting contracts and taking players on deals well past their prime for non core players is, IMO, how you lose that flexibility really fast. 

 

I agree in a perfect world these UFA coming due at the same time would give you a chance to restock and it's unlikely the Flames go down that path. But at least by having so much flexibility they can pivot to different options and not be stuck. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Which is a separate issue entirely and one I would agree with.

 

but one of the biggest priorities a GM has to have in a cap system is you have to give yourself flexibility. Offsetting contracts and taking players on deals well past their prime for non core players is, IMO, how you lose that flexibility really fast. 

 

I agree in a perfect world these UFA coming due at the same time would give you a chance to restock and it's unlikely the Flames go down that path. But at least by having so much flexibility they can pivot to different options and not be stuck. 

 

Also, we need to plan the cap around graduating prospects to the NHL.  New kids coming up the system is where the biggest cap savings could be had.  Prepare for this and setup the cap situation one year ahead of time (can't plan too much because prospects bust and stuff).  Yet, this team doesn't even want to go there. 

 

This past season, it was Ruzicka, Duehr and Pelletier who forced their way into the team unplanned.  Next season, it could be Wolf, Coronato, maybe Zary.  So much opportunity to save cap this summer if we free up roster spots for them.

[cross16]

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Also, we need to plan the cap around graduating prospects to the NHL.  New kids coming up the system is where the biggest cap savings could be had.  Prepare for this and setup the cap situation one year ahead of time (can't plan too much because prospects bust and stuff).  Yet, this team doesn't even want to go there. 

 

This past season, it was Ruzicka, Duehr and Pelletier who forced their way into the team unplanned.  Next season, it could be Wolf, Coronato, maybe Zary.  So much opportunity to save cap this summer if we free up roster spots for them.

 

Good point and I would agree on the process.

 

I don't agree that this team doesn't want to go there though. Think this team has done a really good job integrating prospects and creating space/roster for them. Sutter set them back a bit but before that I think they were intentional about it. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Good point and I would agree on the process.

 

I don't agree that this team doesn't want to go there though. Think this team has done a really good job integrating prospects and creating space/roster for them. Sutter set them back a bit but before that I think they were intentional about it. 

 

Yes true.  I hope we get back to pre-Sutter cap planning.  The insistence on playing vets over kids made it meaningless to plan ahead under Sutter.  Sutter is gone now and hopefully we bring in a coach who embraces youth on the team and can setup the cap to dangle carrots and give the kids a real chance to make it to the NHL.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes true.  I hope we get back to pre-Sutter cap planning.  The insistence on playing vets over kids made it meaningless to plan ahead under Sutter.  Sutter is gone now and hopefully we bring in a coach who embraces youth on the team and can setup the cap to dangle carrots and give the kids a real chance to make it to the NHL.

 

We have one of the better rosters to bring in youth to "learn" and grow.  Pelletier should have been on the roster by October, along with perhaps Phillips.  We could have carried Valimaki instead of not waiving Lewis and Ritchie.  We would have had options for a 3rd line or a youth 4th line.  You only play Lucic when you need the nuke option.  

 

Pelletier-Ruzicka-Phillips(Duehr)

Instead we get shredded with the 4th line out there.

I laughed when SN talked about he Oilers shortening the bench last night to try for the tie.

If it was us, we would have rolled 4 with Lucic.

[Thebrewcrew]

The Athletic has a trade board article.

 

They think things are quiet with the Flames. As to be expected without a GM. They seem to think Vladar is the most likely Flame to be moved though.

 

Also mentioned the logjam at RD in LA. The expectation is Bjornfot and Clarke will be on the Kings. They have excess RD on the roster. Sean Durzi would be worth exploring for the Flames. Might cost Dube, both players are the same age and have a yr left.

[The_People1]

30 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Athletic has a trade board article.

 

They think things are quiet with the Flames. As to be expected without a GM. They seem to think Vladar is the most likely Flame to be moved though.

 

Also mentioned the logjam at RD in LA. The expectation is Bjornfot and Clarke will be on the Kings. They have excess RD on the roster. Sean Durzi would be worth exploring for the Flames. Might cost Dube, both players are the same age and have a yr left.

 

Durzi was the worst player in the EDM/LAK series.  I was left wondering why Durzi was even in the NHL.  Somehow he put up respectable numbers for a 2nd/3rd pair guy.  I thought he would be a smart puck mover, undersized so bring speed, etc.  He was none of that.  He was smallish/weak and generally had low IQ when he had the puck.  He was making bad plays all over the ice.  I guess he's only a PP specialist and he feasts off that.  Reminds me of something like Erik Gustafsson.

 

Comparing Durzi to Stecher is night and day.  Both RHS RD but Stecher can play 5-on-5.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We have one of the better rosters to bring in youth to "learn" and grow.  Pelletier should have been on the roster by October, along with perhaps Phillips.  We could have carried Valimaki instead of not waiving Lewis and Ritchie.  We would have had options for a 3rd line or a youth 4th line.  You only play Lucic when you need the nuke option.  

 

Pelletier-Ruzicka-Phillips(Duehr)

Instead we get shredded with the 4th line out there.

I laughed when SN talked about he Oilers shortening the bench last night to try for the tie.

If it was us, we would have rolled 4 with Lucic.

 

Flames have too many LWs next year with Pelletier and Ruzicka demanding more ice time.  And yes, I think Ruzicka looked better on LW than at Center... maybe he should move over to LW full time.  He put up good numbers there even though he cherry picked from time to time and pissed off Sutter while doing so.  Ruzicka produced at a fair pace.

 

But in any event, start to open up the rosters spots now to save cap.  Take advantage of having young kids to inject into the lineup.

 

I would like to trade Kadri but that's a tough contract to move.  Therefore, Backlund has to go.  I would also try to trade Coleman but that's also a tough contract to move.  Therefore, maybe Mangiapane is the one to go.

 

Free up two roster spots for Pelletier and Ruzicka to play on opening day next season and save $8-mil+ of cap space.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes true.  I hope we get back to pre-Sutter cap planning.  The insistence on playing vets over kids made it meaningless to plan ahead under Sutter.  Sutter is gone now and hopefully we bring in a coach who embraces youth on the team and can setup the cap to dangle carrots and give the kids a real chance to make it to the NHL.

I dunno, we've always carried horrible high cap players, I don't necessarily think it's just a Sutter thing. We chose some poorer contracts and forced us to move on from players. I'm biased but I liked Hathaway. I get it is "easy" to fill that spot, but is it really? I don't necessarily think so. 
 

although, we did have Dube, Mange come up when they did. 
 

i think if we could have held onto Bennett and lived with a few years of patience, maybe we'd see Benny and Chucky playing well together. But there was an insistence on playing certain players with each other without trying things because they already worked... 

 

min conclusion, I'm mixed on it. I do want to start incorporating youth in... 

maybe it talks more to the holes in the roster and the holes in the prospect pool over the year...

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Flames have too many LWs next year with Pelletier and Ruzicka demanding more ice time.  And yes, I think Ruzicka looked better on LW than at Center... maybe he should move over to LW full time.  He put up good numbers there even though he cherry picked from time to time and pissed off Sutter while doing so.  Ruzicka produced at a fair pace.

 

But in any event, start to open up the rosters spots now to save cap.  Take advantage of having young kids to inject into the lineup.

 

I would like to trade Kadri but that's a tough contract to move.  Therefore, Backlund has to go.  I would also try to trade Coleman but that's also a tough contract to move.  Therefore, maybe Mangiapane is the one to go.

 

Free up two roster spots for Pelletier and Ruzicka to play on opening day next season and save $8-mil+ of cap space.

 

We have too many LHS used on LW.  For me, the least value LHS we have is Coleman.  He takes too many penalties for the type of team we are.  He's using his stick when a guy like Zadorov is taking the head off a smaller player.  Yes, I get that he plays with Backlund, but Dube is really the guy that was gettng the good looks.  Coleman was garbage picking and mostly missing the net with his shot when he was on the rush.  Also, I think Coleman is a completer piece, not a guy you need to play top 6 minutes.

 

Thinling out loud, we have Dube, Coronato, Pelletier, Duehr, Ruzicka, and possibly Phillips to use im the bottom 6.  None of those fits a Coleman game.  And I just don't see running back the same top 9 as last season.  Maybe we have the pieves, but they haven't found much magic yet.  Sutter, I know.  I hate the idea of only using bigger, slower players because it's the west.  

 

Hanifin and Backlund out.  A defensive D in.  Stecher maybe our 7th D.  A decent sized C back to play 3C or 4C.  The other spot is Ruzie or Pelletier, depending on which spots fit them best.  I think Ruzie struggled at times on the dot, but his numbers were better than Lewis.  Maybe Pelletier up the middle and Ruzie/Coronato up the wings.  The other line gets Dube, the new C and Duehr perhaps.  

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Flames have too many LWs next year with Pelletier and Ruzicka demanding more ice time.  And yes, I think Ruzicka looked better on LW than at Center... maybe he should move over to LW full time.  He put up good numbers there even though he cherry picked from time to time and pissed off Sutter while doing so.  Ruzicka produced at a fair pace.

 

But in any event, start to open up the rosters spots now to save cap.  Take advantage of having young kids to inject into the lineup.

 

I would like to trade Kadri but that's a tough contract to move.  Therefore, Backlund has to go.  I would also try to trade Coleman but that's also a tough contract to move.  Therefore, maybe Mangiapane is the one to go.

 

Free up two roster spots for Pelletier and Ruzicka to play on opening day next season and save $8-mil+ of cap space.

I'd try and use this season as a quick turnaround and build for the future.

 But I'm not gm.
 

Could we trade Lindholm and Backlund and still compete 

 

go with:

 

Huberdeau, Dube, Coronato

Ruzicka, Kadri, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Zary,Coleman

Pelletier, Rooney, Duerhr

 

without the deals:

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Mangiapane

Dube, Kadri, Toffoli

Ruzicka, Backlund, Coleman

Pelletier, Zary, Coronato

 

i think there is a decent lineup there but the coach needs to try some options instead of running with what they think is the right mix and never swaying from it...  i have to find Duehr a spot there and I'm just trying to place guys in where they can be insulated.

 

 Like Ruzicka has high offensive iq, so play him with defensive minded players who have some offence? Maybe another fit, but if he played with sims guys who have some defensive acumen it might help his overall game. Which is why I didn't mind him with Lindholm, but I think Lindholm is a shooter that loses that part of his game with Tofolli. I'd separate them because they can probably still get some points out of Tofolli and from what I hear Kadri is more of a passer so that probably makes sense.

 

 

 

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