GDT - Ducks at Flames - Friday March 10, 2023

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Exactly! Sutter was brought in to carve out an identity for the team and instill discipline. Without a steady foundation to this franchise , the minute Sutter leaves we’re right back to purgatory searching for a new identity and sense of direction. We are baseless. The ask of the ownership group are the playoffs, when they should be investing in growth and sustainability if they want any form of continued success. 

they want a fan base that will follow and watch them every year? 
 

 

 

 

Build a team that plays good hockey every year. I don't have time to waste on these guys, so I don't watch. I was okay with the team playing this way when young because you hope to see growth. A bit of excitement.  They're not a young team and it's not fun to watch a team that doesn't care; the way these guys play half the time. 
 

Sutter preaches consistent effort and sits young players who don't bring it, but never the vets. I think it's what creates dissension in the room. 
 

look how fast Kadri stopped trying. Is that how he usually is? Or is that the culture of this team? For the first ten he was the best Flames player, and once everyone wasn't going he seemed to stop. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Exactly! Sutter was brought in to carve out an identity for the team and instill discipline. Without a steady foundation to this franchise , the minute Sutter leaves we’re right back to purgatory searching for a new identity and sense of direction. We are baseless. The ask of the ownership group are the playoffs, when they should be investing in growth and sustainability if they want any form of continued success. 

 

What's really missing right now beyond the obvious, is a C.

We are nobody's team.  Not Iggy's, not even Gio's.

We have leaders but they are just told waht to do.

I know that too simplistic, since there are a dozens problems right now.

Just flush the season, can the coach and begin the search.

Start with a POHO to begin the team rebuild.

Have them figure out what we have and where we should go.

 

 

No point hiring a coach when we don't have next year's team yet.

And we have to figure out what that should be.

Not the lowest commom demoninator, but the highest.

Build from the net out.

If Markstrom isn't part of the solution, then he's part of the problem.

Can we find the right goalie coach.

What D pieces do we have and how are they positioned to succeed?

 

Next up, what F pieces do we have.  Do we have prospects that should be in the NHL.

Who are the keepers on this team?  Who is just another F taking up space.

The culture so carefully designed is infected by cup rings that claim to know.

They have no repercussions for their play.

That belittles the guys trying to make it and some roster players look at it and question it.

Why the hech do I need to wrech my shoulder when I see a pylon playing as many minutes.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

they want a fan base that will follow and watch them every year? 
 

 

 

 

Build a team that plays good hockey every year. I don't have time to waste on these guys, so I don't watch. I was okay with the team playing this way when young because you hope to see growth. A bit of excitement.  They're not a young team and it's not fun to watch a team that doesn't care; the way these guys play half the time. 
 

Sutter preaches consistent effort and sits young players who don't bring it, but never the vets. I think it's what creates dissension in the room. 
 

look how fast Kadri stopped trying. Is that how he usually is? Or is that the culture of this team? For the first ten he was the best Flames player, and once everyone wasn't going he seemed to stop. 

 

I think you get it.  I don't expect every player to be 100% every single game of 82.  It's impossible.  

And I don't think the team doesn't play.  They get frustrated with the play.

Momentum is difficult to ,maintain when you have a line that gives it back every shift.

And next to zero reaction to them doing it.  Next up, same bunch.

 

I have no issue sitting Ruzie for a game.

Carrot or stick, and it works some of the time.

But to sit for 10-20 games just so someone else can underperform.

He bumps down Pelletier because he thought he wasn't bringing it.

Really?  That was the problem?  

 

Huberdeau played on his wrong wing for 34 games.

He admitted he's never played on RW before.

Says he doesn't see the ice that way.

Genius uses him there to have Lucic, Pelletier and Ritchie play RW.

If anything Pelletier could play RW without much dropoff.

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I was okay with the team playing this way when young because you hope to see growth. A bit of excitement.  They're not a young team and it's not fun to watch a team that doesn't care; the way these guys play half the time. 

 

Pretty much this.

 

That's why a full blown rebuild works.  You sell hope.  This especially if we can draft a Bedard level prospect who can sell tickets and keep fans in the stands while the team builds around him.  

 

Yes, a rebuild takes years to finish but fans are willing to grow with the team.  This current team is all in their prime and this is the best they can do.  Hopeless.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

17 hours ago, rickross said:

Exactly! Sutter was brought in to carve out an identity for the team and instill discipline. Without a steady foundation to this franchise , the minute Sutter leaves we’re right back to purgatory searching for a new identity and sense of direction. We are baseless. The ask of the ownership group are the playoffs, when they should be investing in growth and sustainability if they want any form of continued success. 

That never changed, even with Sutter. Its been purgatory for almost 20 years.

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

That never changed, even with Sutter. Its been purgatory for almost 20 years.

 

I would rather lose the whatever the heck the identity is right now and search for it.

The Dome was supposed to strike fear into the other teams.

The only fear they have is that they will get injured, like happens very frequently.

That is our identity; hurt someone.

 

[tmac70]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:13 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Whether the coach is the root cause or the players, it doesn't matter.

No coach survives a season like this.  There is nothing to point to and say, yeah this part was good.

There has not been any serious looks at the lines or practices to change anything.

Hey, lets try demoting Dube to help the 4th line.

Hey, lets use the replacement for a 4th liner as the 2nd line LW.

Hey, lets try exactly the same things when we get down a goal.

 

The simple reality is that we aren't set up to win the way the coach wants.

Not a defensive team with stellar goaltending.

Not a transition team that has a fast attack.

Not skilled enough on 4 lines to score from impossible angles.

You keep stating to get rid of the coach, who are you replacing him with? I get the frustration with lineups and player selection, but the fact that we have a below-average roster and well below-average goal tending this season, what more can anyone do? Its no surprise we would struggle scoring. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

You keep stating to get rid of the coach, who are you replacing him with? I get the frustration with lineups and player selection, but the fact that we have a below-average roster and well below-average goal tending this season, what more can anyone do? Its no surprise we would struggle scoring. 

 

Well, you don't jump and take the next available.

We have not ever done a real search.

Gully?

BP?

Wardo?

Sutter was forced on BT.

 

You say a below average roster?  That's crazy.

Below average results, no doubt.

 

I'm guessing that you coach yourself, so I get the reluctance to blame a coach.

And we have a history of the coach taking the fall.

Is it guaranteed to fix the problems?  No idea.

But if you look at play design, lines, PP, defensive structure, goalie regression, there are signs.

Perhaps it's as simple as replacing the assistant coaches and goalie development staff.

But that rarely happens on NHL teams.

Clean sweep, plus the coach tends to want his own guys.

 

I don't like what I see in games, so either the players are incapable of playing that system.

Or the systems don't fit the league anymore.

We don't have a Guadreau/Tkachuk or Kipper to cover for the rest of the play.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

You keep stating to get rid of the coach, who are you replacing him with? I get the frustration with lineups and player selection, but the fact that we have a below-average roster and well below-average goal tending this season, what more can anyone do? Its no surprise we would struggle scoring. 

 

my issue with Sutter is he alienated a bunch of guys. Sure it is good to sit players who aren't going. But there are guys who continue to get taken out even though there are guys who are not going and they continue to get ice time. 
 

the other thing I don't like is, Sutter doesn't seem to take advantage of home ice and just rolls his lines, doesn't line match against lesser lines to get an advantage. He was not taking advantage of home ice last year either. Killer instinct, put the guys who can score against the other teams worst players is what I'd do with home ice... 

 

I see travel keep saying how Lucic continues to be thrown out after a goal or something. If that's his coaching and line match then I dunno?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I see travel keep saying how Lucic continues to be thrown out after a goal or something. If that's his coaching and line match then I dunno?

 

After we have a PP is much worse.

The defensive guys play the PK for other teams.

When our PP end, they are playing the top guys.  And we put out Lucic.

 

Tonight, there was an icing with their 4th line out there when Lucic was on.

Instead of putting the top line out, he plays Lucic.

Not a bad results, but it can end up being an icing where we are caught.

Not piling on the 4th line, but Lewis was involved in an odd man rush tonight.

Perfect pass in the slot and he falls trying to play it.  

It was basically an open net.

 

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, you don't jump and take the next available.

We have not ever done a real search.

Gully?

BP?

Wardo?

Sutter was forced on BT.

 

You say a below average roster?  That's crazy.

Below average results, no doubt.

 

I'm guessing that you coach yourself, so I get the reluctance to blame a coach.

And we have a history of the coach taking the fall.

Is it guaranteed to fix the problems?  No idea.

But if you look at play design, lines, PP, defensive structure, goalie regression, there are signs.

Perhaps it's as simple as replacing the assistant coaches and goalie development staff.

But that rarely happens on NHL teams.

Clean sweep, plus the coach tends to want his own guys.

 

I don't like what I see in games, so either the players are incapable of playing that system.

Or the systems don't fit the league anymore.

We don't have a Guadreau/Tkachuk or Kipper to cover for the rest of the play.

Name me the superstar of this club. Yes I do coach and yes I have been a GM. I simply don't see that the coach has lost the room more than the room is lost. What I see is players trying to play to levels they can't. Markstorm had a bad 2nd round and has now forced himself to play better, Weegar, Mags, Hubie, are all trying too hard to be game-changers, which creates more inconsistencies. I get the frustration but with average goal tending a 1 more goal this club is in a very good spot all with being just average. 

 

I don't see a structure issue I see an execution issue offset by poor goaltending. Do I agree with the use of Lucic, Lewis no. The only reason I see Lucic on this roster has to be the player's love of him in the room. Now with the use of players, that is why I put the video on with Rhett, he is 100% accurate with this. We have lost some prospects and the usage isn't great Ruzie ect. However, the GM needs to grow a set and stand up to Sutter and tell him FU, to use one of the prospects. Trevling also needs to pull his head out of his Hash Rate and realize he needs a franchise player, is that Corronato not sure. However, if Corronato needs to play to sign him, then find him a spot on the roster, till we are out, and then get him on the AHL team to bring home a Calder cup. 

 

The coach is allowed to do what is because the GM allows it, plus the players have to step up and rise to the challenge as well.

 

Now if Trevling doesn't have that power than you have a whole different ball of wax. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Name me the superstar of this club. Yes I do coach and yes I have been a GM. I simply don't see that the coach has lost the room more than the room is lost. What I see is players trying to play to levels they can't. Markstorm had a bad 2nd round and has now forced himself to play better, Weegar, Mags, Hubie, are all trying too hard to be game-changers, which creates more inconsistencies. I get the frustration but with average goal tending a 1 more goal this club is in a very good spot all with being just average. 

 

I don't see a structure issue I see an execution issue offset by poor goaltending. Do I agree with the use of Lucic, Lewis no. The only reason I see Lucic on this roster has to be the player's love of him in the room. Now with the use of players, that is why I put the video on with Rhett, he is 100% accurate with this. We have lost some prospects and the usage isn't great Ruzie ect. However, the GM needs to grow a set and stand up to Sutter and tell him FU, to use one of the prospects. Trevling also needs to pull his head out of his Hash Rate and realize he needs a franchise player, is that Corronato not sure. However, if Corronato needs to play to sign him, then find him a spot on the roster, till we are out, and then get him on the AHL team to bring home a Calder cup. 

 

The coach is allowed to do what is because the GM allows it, plus the players have to step up and rise to the challenge as well.

 

Now if Trevling doesn't have that power than you have a whole different ball of wax. 

 

Ya the thing with a superstar, like Gaudreau and Tkachuk, is that it allows your second line players to do second line level stuff... for example, Mangiapane flourished because there was no pressure on him.  Lindholm can do his usual stuff and pot 40-goals as a passenger.  As soon as the superstars are all gone, suddenly secondary players are relied upon to do more than what they're capable of and you almost always end up with worse results.

 

For whatever reason, Huberdeau hasn't rose to the occasion yet.

 

And I agree about structure and all that.  The coach has the players playing a good structure and tilting the ice in our favour.  The effort is also top notch most of the time (80% of the games we lost was not due to effort).  The biggest problem is finishing/execution and goaltending.  You generate so many shots but that final touch isn't there.  Then, the other team goes into our zone and score an easy one.

 

Anyways, we need superstars who can take over a game.  They set the tone and allows the rest of the team to play to their individual strengths.

[tmac70]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya the thing with a superstar, like Gaudreau and Tkachuk, is that it allows your second line players to do second line level stuff... for example, Mangiapane flourished because there was no pressure on him.  Lindholm can do his usual stuff and pot 40-goals as a passenger.  As soon as the superstars are all gone, suddenly secondary players are relied upon to do more than what they're capable of and you almost always end up with worse results.

 

For whatever reason, Huberdeau hasn't rose to the occasion yet.

 

And I agree about structure and all that.  The coach has the players playing a good structure and tilting the ice in our favour.  The effort is also top notch most of the time (80% of the games we lost was not due to effort).  The biggest problem is finishing/execution and goaltending.  You generate so many shots but that final touch isn't there.  Then, the other team goes into our zone and score an easy one.

 

Anyways, we need superstars who can take over a game.  They set the tone and allows the rest of the team to play to their individual strengths.

Hey I lose my crap lots of nights watching these guys... But when you actually pull back the layers and look inside, all this club had to be was average and they would be in a whole different spot. Scoring was going to be an issue, but with how many posts and crossbars an inch the other way different out come, average goaltending we are 12 points better. I believe even just being in that spot lessens the nerves and creates a different swagger. The thing with confidence is it be changed very quickly in either direction, I have seen it.