GDT - Ducks at Flames - Friday March 10, 2023

[conundrumed]

This is a bad team.

[travel_dude]

I hate when Ras passes up the shot for a pass to the side.

[redfire11]

losers

[conundrumed]

[Thebrewcrew]

And that's why they won't be a playoff team.

 

The Ducks are one of the worst teams in the league. Can't be losing to them at home.

 

Pretty good job of nullifying the two wins on the road though.

[travel_dude]

Season is done.

[travel_dude]

Send down Duehr and Pelletier.

No point right now.

Coach has ruined a good team.

[conundrumed]

Now just lose out and trade away the low skill in the offseason....but no. This thing will stay on life support.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Now just lose out and trade away the low skill in the offseason....but no. This thing will stay on life support.

 

Trade out Backlund to re-sign Ritchie for 4 years.

With a raise

[tmac70]

This is a good listen with Rhett.. This sums it up nicely ( profanity in content) IMHO this sums it 

 

 

[travel_dude]

Two games at home in a row that they were booed off the ice.

[tmac70]

Just another embarrassment of a game, pathetic

[travel_dude]

I don't know how a team with Lucic and Lewis and Ritchie can possibly lose any games.

[The_People1]

59 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

This is a good listen with Rhett.. This sums it up nicely ( profanity in content) IMHO this sums it 

 

 

 

But we showed up and played.  Outshot, out zone timed, out everything except score.  Which really comes down to lack of skills.  We don't have enough finishers.  Don't have big shots.  Don't have clutchness.

 

We only have hard working players.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Now just lose out and trade away the low skill in the offseason....but no. This thing will stay on life support.

 

Too much low skills.  A whole team of third liners.  No matter how hard they work, they can't finish so it's all for nothing.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

And that's why they won't be a playoff team.

 

The Ducks are one of the worst teams in the league. Can't be losing to them at home.

 

Pretty good job of nullifying the two wins on the road though.

 

There's still OTT and ARZ coming up.  3 game losing streak before all is said and done.

[rickross]

Clearly we are not a playoff team, a push for the playoffs could be good for morale and a strong finish to the year but it would be pointless. 1st rd exit all day, we can’t even beat Anaheim at home in a must win situation. Season is already over folks, would be more prudent to go for a higher draft pick and do another full review of this team in the off season. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

But we showed up and played.  Outshot, out zone timed, out everything except score.  Which really comes down to lack of skills.  We don't have enough finishers.  Don't have big shots.  Don't have clutchness.

 

We only have hard working players.

 

Well, we do have good shooters but nobody can get them the puck on their stick.

Put it in their feet.  Into a bunch of sticks.  Into a crowd.

And those that can shoot share time with the f'in useless players of which we have a few.

Most important home game in weeks and we play Lucic at all.

Coach has no clue who even knows how to play.

And he was pretty good in dumbing down the game to fit the low skill guys.

 

It's not like the coach just ruined the team.

That began at game 7.  

Our best season start and he gotta break it down.

Too exciting having comeback wins.

Too much scoring; it a 2-1 league.

 

The unfortunate thing is that minor changes to the gameplan and a few roster changes and

we are not this team.  Wrong coach to get there.  Nothing works longer than 2 games now.

Nothing, because the coach lacks the vision to see that he doesn't have a winning formula.

No elite scoring, because there is no chemistry.  No elite goaltending because it's an off year.

And the D is messed up.  Trying to play the same style as last year without scoring and goalies.

It was a 4-1 league last year. 

 

Sell high on Backlund.  He's not the problem, but we can't just play defensive hockey.

Sell Hanifin.  It's not that he is bad, but you can't play him 20 minutes and expect him to win for you.

Too many things he does set us back.  Too many lost battles.  Low hockey IQ at times.

Sell Tanev.  A warrior doesn't help when he's the only one and starting to age out.

Trade Markstrom.  I don't care if Vladar is not ready, we just need to start again.

Trade Mangiapane.  He probably does better in a different situation, but maybe not.

Re-sign Lindholm and Toffoli.  Only two pure shooters we have.

Keep them apart.  Find them the right players.

Sign Coronato.  GIve him a top C and a passer.

Keep Kadri away from Huberdeau.

 

The owners are nuts.  They backed the wrong horse.

Continuing down this path is a waste of money.

Cut bait, bring in a decent coach, reduce payroll.

Have enough cap that you can take on some crap contract to supplement the draft.

I'm not talking about a tank, just a re-tool.

Keep the right players, bring in the right trades/UFA's and prospects, and we don't suffer.

Closer to OTT than ARI.

A hungry team will play.

Right now we are a well fed team that skates in mud.

At least 3 spots gifted to useless players.

Have an off night?  Don't worry if you are over 30 or 6'3" and over.

 

(rant over) 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, we do have good shooters but nobody can get them the puck on their stick.

Put it in their feet.  Into a bunch of sticks.  Into a crowd.

And those that can shoot share time with the f'in useless players of which we have a few.

Most important home game in weeks and we play Lucic at all.

Coach has no clue who even knows how to play.

And he was pretty good in dumbing down the game to fit the low skill guys.

 

It's not like the coach just ruined the team.

That began at game 7.  

Our best season start and he gotta break it down.

Too exciting having comeback wins.

Too much scoring; it a 2-1 league.

 

The unfortunate thing is that minor changes to the gameplan and a few roster changes and

we are not this team.  Wrong coach to get there.  Nothing works longer than 2 games now.

Nothing, because the coach lacks the vision to see that he doesn't have a winning formula.

No elite scoring, because there is no chemistry.  No elite goaltending because it's an off year.

And the D is messed up.  Trying to play the same style as last year without scoring and goalies.

It was a 4-1 league last year. 

 

Sell high on Backlund.  He's not the problem, but we can't just play defensive hockey.

Sell Hanifin.  It's not that he is bad, but you can't play him 20 minutes and expect him to win for you.

Too many things he does set us back.  Too many lost battles.  Low hockey IQ at times.

Sell Tanev.  A warrior doesn't help when he's the only one and starting to age out.

Trade Markstrom.  I don't care if Vladar is not ready, we just need to start again.

Trade Mangiapane.  He probably does better in a different situation, but maybe not.

Re-sign Lindholm and Toffoli.  Only two pure shooters we have.

Keep them apart.  Find them the right players.

Sign Coronato.  GIve him a top C and a passer.

Keep Kadri away from Huberdeau.

 

The owners are nuts.  They backed the wrong horse.

Continuing down this path is a waste of money.

Cut bait, bring in a decent coach, reduce payroll.

Have enough cap that you can take on some crap contract to supplement the draft.

I'm not talking about a tank, just a re-tool.

Keep the right players, bring in the right trades/UFA's and prospects, and we don't suffer.

Closer to OTT than ARI.

A hungry team will play.

Right now we are a well fed team that skates in mud.

At least 3 spots gifted to useless players.

Have an off night?  Don't worry if you are over 30 or 6'3" and over.

 

(rant over) 

 

There's too much to fix.  Best to burn it all down first and rebuild.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, rickross said:

Clearly we are not a playoff team, a push for the playoffs could be good for morale and a strong finish to the year but it would be pointless. 1st rd exit all day, we can’t even beat Anaheim at home in a must win situation. Season is already over folks, would be more prudent to go for a higher draft pick and do another full review of this team in the off season. 

No playoffs and a strong finish would be the worst outcome. Then they'll try to sell us that, "you can see by how strong we finished, this is a good team". Like we don't have eyes. Without spectacular goaltending every single game, we are Anaheim. But without lots of young talent.

I swear if I hear more stats painting us just as bad luck I'm going to rip my eyes out.

"That Andersson chance was an xGF and high danger". So what? Who cares? He tried to pass the puck instead. It's over. That stat means <zero. And the heat maps mean zero. They show how the opposing goalie might need to replace the crest on his jersey. But we have set an NHL record for most losses after outshooting the opponent by 10+.

Now that stat tells me something. Shooting attempt and ability is <mediocre.

[rickross]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

No playoffs and a strong finish would be the worst outcome. Then they'll try to sell us that, "you can see by how strong we finished, this is a good team". Like we don't have eyes. Without spectacular goaltending every single game, we are Anaheim. But without lots of young talent.

I swear if I hear more stats painting us just as bad luck I'm going to rip my eyes out.

"That Andersson chance was an xGF and high danger". So what? Who cares? He tried to pass the puck instead. It's over. That stat means <zero. And the heat maps mean zero. They show how the opposing goalie might need to replace the crest on his jersey. But we have set an NHL record for most losses after outshooting the opponent by 10+.

Now that stat tells me something. Shooting attempt and ability is <mediocre.

One of the most frustrating Flames seasons on record. This team cannot get it done. They don’t even deserve a playoff spot tbh. This really does fall on the players, ultimately they’ve failed. A 2 game win streak is an accomplishment for this team, thats where we’re at now. We still lack a proper foundation to this team, playoff team one year..non playoff team the next. Zero traction. Here we are again looking at the Pelletier, Walkers and Coronatos to save this team as the high paid vets collect their cheques for underperforming 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

There's too much to fix.  Best to burn it all down first and rebuild.

 

Whether the coach is the root cause or the players, it doesn't matter.

No coach survives a season like this.  There is nothing to point to and say, yeah this part was good.

There has not been any serious looks at the lines or practices to change anything.

Hey, lets try demoting Dube to help the 4th line.

Hey, lets use the replacement for a 4th liner as the 2nd line LW.

Hey, lets try exactly the same things when we get down a goal.

 

The simple reality is that we aren't set up to win the way the coach wants.

Not a defensive team with stellar goaltending.

Not a transition team that has a fast attack.

Not skilled enough on 4 lines to score from impossible angles.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, rickross said:

One of the most frustrating Flames seasons on record. This team cannot get it done. They don’t even deserve a playoff spot tbh. This really does fall on the players, ultimately they’ve failed. A 2 game win streak is an accomplishment for this team, thats where we’re at now. We still lack a proper foundation to this team, playoff team one year..non playoff team the next. Zero traction. Here we are again looking at the Pelletier, Walkers and Coronatos to save this team as the high paid vets collect their cheques for underperforming 

 

There isn't a single line I can point to and suggest that they have the right mix.

2nd line Ritchie or Pelletier or Lucic or Lewis or Coleman or....

Use Hiberdeau on RW because we need another LW.

Kadri has been the common demoninator.

 

Backlund's line is the best defensive line we have, but offers little scoring most nights.

Backlund has one of the best entry rates of the C's.

But the line has few finishers.

 

We have guys shooting at above 12%, but few are taking shots.

Toffoli has 210 shots to Lindholm 138 to Dube 115.

Kadri has 220 to Huberdeau 103.

Backlund 218 to Mange 146.

Huberdeau is actually shooting at 11.7%.

 

Pretty hard to evaluate this team's foundation.

We haven't had a stable top 6 for longer than a year.

Perhaps the closest was the end of the Wardo year through last year.

Even that was plagued by inconsistent goaltending.

If we had Gibson we would know a bit more.

 

Like it or not, we have a coach that had success with elite scoring players and elite goaltending.

We have neither, so we always look mediocre.

We can't score our way out of a bad goalie game.

We can't play a 2-1 game.

Only way we have a chance is if we score first and score 2-3 goals in the first.

 

So, moving forward, sit down with the great hockey minds and figure out what we need to be.

Look at what we have and decide what needs to go and what you need to get there.

Find the coach that matches the style you want to play.

I would rather miss this and next year's playoffs than a cycle of in one year and out the next.

As long as it's not just the result of bad play and is an actual re-tool.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

No playoffs and a strong finish would be the worst outcome. Then they'll try to sell us that, "you can see by how strong we finished, this is a good team". Like we don't have eyes. Without spectacular goaltending every single game, we are Anaheim. But without lots of young talent.

I swear if I hear more stats painting us just as bad luck I'm going to rip my eyes out.

"That Andersson chance was an xGF and high danger". So what? Who cares? He tried to pass the puck instead. It's over. That stat means <zero. And the heat maps mean zero. They show how the opposing goalie might need to replace the crest on his jersey. But we have set an NHL record for most losses after outshooting the opponent by 10+.

Now that stat tells me something. Shooting attempt and ability is <mediocre.

 

I wouldn't worry about a strong finish.  We are a 500 team. Expect about 88 points at the end.

We will likely be passed by DET, BUFF, WAS, NAS and OTT.

We likely beat SJS and ANA and ARI, plus take one from VGK, DAL or WPG.

The other teams we play are playing for pride or their jobs.

Expect more 3-1, 5-2, 3-2 losses.

And don't expect any help coming from the kids.

Whether Rosie deserves to play, there's a list of guys that don't we see every night.

Whether Duehr is better than Lewis or Lucic doesn't matter.

Even in a losing effort, the coach is all about this cup experience needing to be out there.

 

I hear analysts talk about a shooting mentality.

Debrusk always talks about it in Oilers games.

A mediocre reults team with deadly players.

Their D actually shoot from the point, not that it's a winning plan, but better than none.

Or mentality is shoot towards the net from anywhere.

No screen no rebounds.

Pass to the angle instead of taking the direct shot.

Lane to the net, pass it to the wing.

 

Most of the counting stats don't support us being a good playing team.

Plus/minus, GF/GA, SH%, SA%, GAA, player scoring.

 

The GM made a couple of moves at TDL.

Not to fix the top 6 or even add anyone that impacts the game.

Replace two guys not being used with guys that the coach likely uses.

And we can see what value they have for a team like this.

 

The GM can make one single move for the good of the team.

Fire the coach and evaluate the players and the A/coaches remaining.

Too late and probably kills our draft hopes.

Maybe wait a week until we have completely lost the playoff hopes.

Sit the pending UFA's.

Use a different set of lines every night.

See what you have on the team.

[rickross]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There isn't a single line I can point to and suggest that they have the right mix.

2nd line Ritchie or Pelletier or Lucic or Lewis or Coleman or....

Use Hiberdeau on RW because we need another LW.

Kadri has been the common demoninator.

 

Backlund's line is the best defensive line we have, but offers little scoring most nights.

Backlund has one of the best entry rates of the C's.

But the line has few finishers.

 

We have guys shooting at above 12%, but few are taking shots.

Toffoli has 210 shots to Lindholm 138 to Dube 115.

Kadri has 220 to Huberdeau 103.

Backlund 218 to Mange 146.

Huberdeau is actually shooting at 11.7%.

 

Pretty hard to evaluate this team's foundation.

We haven't had a stable top 6 for longer than a year.

Perhaps the closest was the end of the Wardo year through last year.

Even that was plagued by inconsistent goaltending.

If we had Gibson we would know a bit more.

 

Like it or not, we have a coach that had success with elite scoring players and elite goaltending.

We have neither, so we always look mediocre.

We can't score our way out of a bad goalie game.

We can't play a 2-1 game.

Only way we have a chance is if we score first and score 2-3 goals in the first.

 

So, moving forward, sit down with the great hockey minds and figure out what we need to be.

Look at what we have and decide what needs to go and what you need to get there.

Find the coach that matches the style you want to play.

I would rather miss this and next year's playoffs than a cycle of in one year and out the next.

As long as it's not just the result of bad play and is an actual re-tool.

Exactly! Sutter was brought in to carve out an identity for the team and instill discipline. Without a steady foundation to this franchise , the minute Sutter leaves we’re right back to purgatory searching for a new identity and sense of direction. We are baseless. The ask of the ownership group are the playoffs, when they should be investing in growth and sustainability if they want any form of continued success.