2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[jjgallow]

11 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Where do you come up with this stuff?lol

 

You remember I picked this guy right?    I didn't pick him because he was "good".

 

Show me how many other forwards are actively getting signed to $10m+ deals who are approaching 30 and never scored more than 30 goals in a season.  

 

He averages 19 goals a year.  That's including his prime, which he is now coming out of.  So yes, he had an off year, only scored 15 goals.  Maybe next year he will have a "resurgence" and score 19 or 20.   Like he did 2 years ago in his prime.

 

Forget 30, and forget the assists.  He's got nobody to pass to, and nobody to pass to him that will get him above 20 goals.   That's also not changing given the boat anchor contracts on this team, his included.  You're always explaining this to me with prospects.  Guess what it applies at the NHL level too.

 

This is black and white, it's not even grey.   You have no sane argument here.  Not even if you called is parents and attended his practices.  This isn't me being hopeful for a prospect, this is reality.   The only thing left to do is wait 5 years so you can tell me hindsight is 20/20.

 

Anyway, you're inclined to keep him.  That works, cause a trade is never gonna work.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Should/could we trade Huberdeau + 16th overall for Montreal's 5th overall?

 

not IMO. I don't see why Montreal does that and Huberdeau has a limited trade clause. Publicly stated last year that playing in Montreal, as someone who is french, is not what it's cracked up to be. Wouldn't shock me if Montreal is on that list. 

[cross16]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Huberdeau + Sutter didn't work

Huberdeau + Kadri didn't work

Huberdeau + Lindholm was merely average

Huberdeau + Backlund had some promise

 

Yet, the two guys staying almost for sure is Sutter and Kadri.  Meanwhile, Lindholm might need to be traded, in which case, Backlund won't extend long term and we should trade him too.

 

So, all roads lead to Huberdeau stuck in a bad situation.

 

Too small of a sample size to say this. I actually think this was showing signs of working and Sutter went away from it to never try it again. 

 

with a more flexible coach I think Huberdeau is a PPG player again. 

[JTech780]

Moving up in this draft is going to be next to impossible. Moving into the top 5 or top 10 in any draft is pretty much impossible, but with the talent in this draft it will be even harder to move up in this draft. 
 

Since the salary cap era those top 10 picks are valued even higher than before. Having someone who can potentially be an impact player coming in on a ELC is so valuable in the cap era that teams are unwilling to risk that by moving outside of the top 10.

 

That being said I think Calgary would be extremely smart to explore the possibility of moving back in this draft. With the amount of talent in this draft they will still get a very good player if they move back, but adding more picks especially early in the draft would go a long way to help this team in the future.

 

If someone starts to fall in the draft then you have to stay put, and that is a real possibility this year, but outside of that I think you can get a similar talent at 25 as you would get at 16 this year.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Moving up in this draft is going to be next to impossible. Moving into the top 5 or top 10 in any draft is pretty much impossible, but with the talent in this draft it will be even harder to move up in this draft. 
 

Since the salary cap era those top 10 picks are valued even higher than before. Having someone who can potentially be an impact player coming in on a ELC is so valuable in the cap era that teams are unwilling to risk that by moving outside of the top 10.

 

That being said I think Calgary would be extremely smart to explore the possibility of moving back in this draft. With the amount of talent in this draft they will still get a very good player if they move back, but adding more picks especially early in the draft would go a long way to help this team in the future.

 

If someone starts to fall in the draft then you have to stay put, and that is a real possibility this year, but outside of that I think you can get a similar talent at 25 as you would get at 16 this year.

I'm leaning this way too. 16 to 25 isn't much of a drop in potential, if any. If it can sneak you into a 3rd top 50 pick, it's not a crazy idea. If you can get a 3rd for dropping a little bit back, I'm not against it. Just a matter of how the draft is shaking down, as always.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Tried that.  That sort of reminds me of DUbe on the top line before Sutter got here.

It wasn't the best thing we had to offer and was really putting a young guy in a top role.

Who perhaps deserves it more?  The guy forced to play RW who was an assist machine?

I think you need to build lines that have potential to work.

It could be as deadly as when we had JG and MT.

 

I don't put Toffoli on the line then. I think he's good, but he doesn't seem to pass as much. He gets the puck and goes. I think the reason Tkachuk worked was he had high elite hockey smarts. Knew how long to hold it and when to shoot or pass. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

not IMO. I don't see why Montreal does that and Huberdeau has a limited trade clause. Publicly stated last year that playing in Montreal, as someone who is french, is not what it's cracked up to be. Wouldn't shock me if Montreal is on that list. 

 

Nah, I think Huberdeau's comments were, "Calgary traded for me and Montreal didn't, so..."  I mean, you can hear the disappointment in his tone.  He wished it was Montreal that wanted him, not Calgary.  Then, he proceeds to cope live on air by telling himself maybe it's too much pressure for a French Canadian to play in Montreal.

 

He just wants Montreal to want him.  He will waive to go there if Montreal came knocking.

 

But fair enough, Montreal "should" stand still and draft 5th overall.  I just have a feeling it "could" happen because that market is so impatient like every other Canadian market.  Their GM has so much pressure to NOT rebuild properly and stay in the basement for 5 years.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Moving up in this draft is going to be next to impossible. Moving into the top 5 or top 10 in any draft is pretty much impossible, but with the talent in this draft it will be even harder to move up in this draft. 
 

Since the salary cap era those top 10 picks are valued even higher than before. Having someone who can potentially be an impact player coming in on a ELC is so valuable in the cap era that teams are unwilling to risk that by moving outside of the top 10.

 

That being said I think Calgary would be extremely smart to explore the possibility of moving back in this draft. With the amount of talent in this draft they will still get a very good player if they move back, but adding more picks especially early in the draft would go a long way to help this team in the future.

 

If someone starts to fall in the draft then you have to stay put, and that is a real possibility this year, but outside of that I think you can get a similar talent at 25 as you would get at 16 this year.

 

What's the gap between 5 and 16?  Is it so much bigger than 16 to 25?

[The_People1]

What if we win the draft lottery and get the 6th pick?  Would Montreal trade the 5th for Calgary's 6th + Huberdeau?

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Nah, I think Huberdeau's comments were, "Calgary traded for me and Montreal didn't, so..."  I mean, you can hear the disappointment in his tone.  He wished it was Montreal that wanted him, not Calgary.  Then, he proceeds to cope live on air by telling himself maybe it's too much pressure for a French Canadian to play in Montreal.

 

He just wants Montreal to want him.  He will waive to go there if Montreal came knocking.

 

But fair enough, Montreal "should" stand still and draft 5th overall.  I just have a feeling it "could" happen because that market is so impatient like every other Canadian market.  Their GM has so much pressure to NOT rebuild properly and stay in the basement for 5 years.

 

 

 

Quote

“As much as I love Montreal, I dunno. I think it’s a tough city for a French-Canadian. Calgary traded for me. If Montreal wanted to trade for me, they would’ve traded for me. That’s how I see it. And I want to play for a team that wants me. Calgary wanted me, so that's why I wanted to sign a big extension.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/flames-jonathan-huberdeau-talks-montreal-canadiens-rumours/

 

I think that's reaching personally. The comment was answering a question of why sign a big deal before you've even played. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

What if we win the draft lottery and get the 6th pick?  Would Montreal trade the 5th for Calgary's 6th + Huberdeau?

I wouldn't do that. One spot up isn't much and I think you might still be able to get something for Huberdeau. Especially if some cap hit is retained. 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's the gap between 5 and 16?  Is it so much bigger than 16 to 25?

It has more to do with the fact that your chances of getting an all-star level player decreases dramatically outside the top 5 and again outside the top 10. That’s why you really if ever see teams trade top 10 picks.

 

One site put values on each pick in the first round. 5th overall was 484.40 points, 16th overall was 271.97 points and 25th overall was 181.80 points. For reference first overall is 1000 points. So basically 5th to 16th drops 213 points and 16th to 25th drops 90 points.

[robrob74]

I'm tired of the team moving back. I get Schneider might not be their guy, but when you see them being an NHL defensemen it kind of makes you wonder about the teams scouting and decisions. Maybe Zary ends up better in the long run, but to me, if it's not the case then it's a black mark on the org. 
 

[Thebrewcrew]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I'm tired of the team moving back. I get Schneider might not be their guy, but when you see them being an NHL defensemen it kind of makes you wonder about the teams scouting and decisions. Maybe Zary ends up better in the long run, but to me, if it's not the case then it's a black mark on the org. 
 

Trading down and not getting Schneider isn’t all that bad.

 

If you wanna hate a trade down, look at 2012. Trading from 14-21. Saw Vasilevskiy, Hertl, Wilson, Teravainen go. They took Jankowski. That’s a bad trade down.

 

The ceiling with Schneider was never all that high. He’s likely a serviceable 2nd pair guy, which is good, but far less detrimental then missing out on the best goalie in the world like they did in 2012

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Trading down and not getting Schneider isn’t all that bad.

 

If you wanna hate a trade down, look at 2012. Trading from 14-21. Saw Vasilevskiy, Hertl, Wilson, Teravainen go. They took Jankowski. That’s a bad trade down.

 

The ceiling with Schneider was never all that high. He’s likely a serviceable 2nd pair guy, which is good, but far less detrimental then missing out on the best goalie in the world like they did in 2012

 

ya that's a terrible one too! I dunno, a top four D is still really good if Zary doesn't do much 

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Trading down and not getting Schneider isn’t all that bad.

 

If you wanna hate a trade down, look at 2012. Trading from 14-21. Saw Vasilevskiy, Hertl, Wilson, Teravainen go. They took Jankowski. That’s a bad trade down.

 

The ceiling with Schneider was never all that high. He’s likely a serviceable 2nd pair guy, which is good, but far less detrimental then missing out on the best goalie in the world like they did in 2012

Yeah but the trade down allowed us to select Patrick Sielloff in the 2nd round. So according to Feaster and Wiesbrod we got both of the guys that they were targeting. ⌚💣

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya that's a terrible one too! I dunno, a top four D is still really good if Zary doesn't do much 

But it's not just Zary. The trade down results in what would you rather:

Schneider

Zary, Poirier, Boltmann

It's not 1 for 1.

BT was roundly applauded for his work, and it's waaay too early to play the @jjgallow game of hindsight.

I'm sure he can find his old quote of wanting Schneider pre-draft while he's rummaging through old posts.lol

[conundrumed]

U18 semi's folks.

Slovakia vs USA now, Canada vs Sweden 11am MST.

Can't stress enough that the US team plays together all year so have a very distinct advantage over everyone.

They should win. And if they don't....well...

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

But it's not just Zary. The trade down results in what would you rather:

Schneider

Zary, Poirier, Boltmann

It's not 1 for 1.

BT was roundly applauded for his work, and it's waaay too early to play the @jjgallow game of hindsight.

I'm sure he can find his old quote of wanting Schneider pre-draft while he's rummaging through old posts.lol

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:46 AM, jjgallow said:

 

You remember I picked this guy right?    I didn't pick him because he was "good".

 

Show me how many other forwards are actively getting signed to $10m+ deals who are approaching 30 and never scored more than 30 goals in a season.  

 

He averages 19 goals a year.  That's including his prime, which he is now coming out of.  So yes, he had an off year, only scored 15 goals.  Maybe next year he will have a "resurgence" and score 19 or 20.   Like he did 2 years ago in his prime.

 

Forget 30, and forget the assists.  He's got nobody to pass to, and nobody to pass to him that will get him above 20 goals.   That's also not changing given the boat anchor contracts on this team, his included.  You're always explaining this to me with prospects.  Guess what it applies at the NHL level too.

 

This is black and white, it's not even grey.   You have no sane argument here.  Not even if you called is parents and attended his practices.  This isn't me being hopeful for a prospect, this is reality.   The only thing left to do is wait 5 years so you can tell me hindsight is 20/20.

 

Anyway, you're inclined to keep him.  That works, cause a trade is never gonna work.

You seem pretty focused on goals when talking about a player whose bread and butter is and has always been assists. 

 

Things are never just black and white. They only look that way when thats what you're actively looking for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

You seem pretty focused on goals when talking about a player whose bread and butter is and has always been assists. 

 

Things are never just black and white. They only look that way when thats what you're actively looking for.

 

Tell that to the coaching thread, that's where black and white is happening the most here, as it always does after a playoff miss.

 

You said yourself his bread and butter has always been assists (not actually true, he was a goal scorer in junior and was not able to translate).

 

Well we don't have goalscorers here and won't be able to afford them for a while, so,

 

there.   Yes he might get lots of points paired with a McDavid but that kind of thing won't happen with his contract.

 

I just don't really see the point in arguing how black and white it is when there's really only one reasonable conclusion.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:46 AM, jjgallow said:

 

You remember I picked this guy right?    I didn't pick him because he was "good".......

 

 

 

This is black and white, it's not even grey.   You have no sane argument here.  Not even if you called is parents and attended his practices. ......

 

57 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Tell that to the coaching thread,........

 

I just don't really see the point in arguing how black and white it is when there's really only one reasonable conclusion.

I guess "sane" and "reasonable" only apply to your opinions.  Good to know.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Sorry to all for dragging this so off topic especially since I dont have alot of insight into the upcoming draft classes.

[jjgallow]

48 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

 

I guess "sane" and "reasonable" only apply to your opinions.  Good to know.

 

You are just jealous of my charming personality

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

27 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You are just jealous of my charming personality

Yes you do have a knack of bringing out the best in people.