2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[jjgallow]

18 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

For me, with Heidt, I don't worry so much about goal scoring.

 

It's the ability to drive play, transport the puck and create plays I really like in his game.

 

The Flames don't have anyone on the NHL roster that's especially good at those things. It's not in the pipeline either.

 

Normally, I've been all in on taking a RHS or a D, they just haven't done a good job in that regard. I'd still be in favor of it, but right now Heidt is really interesting to me.

 

A pure playmaker.  the #1C.

 

I like it, I can't comment, haven't seen him enough.   Pure playmakers are a tough one to forcast because you never know if it's the playmaker or the goalscorers around them.     If he had a better touch around the net then I'd feel more comfortable.   But without a doubt that's not a requirement to become  a star in the NHL.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

that's where I don't know if a true plan had been thought up. We've drafted better, but i might be ignorant; I just haven't seen a true plan of attack in drafting or team building. 
 

maybe they thought Johnny would be here longer, but we still need younger play-drivers if Johnny was still in Calgary.

 

 

I think the biggest problem is that those players are really hard to get. You can only get them at the top of the draft and the Flames haven't really been in that spot for a while.

 

They really lucked out with the Johnny pick. They got a potential HOF player in the 4th round. If there was a re-draft, he likely goes 2nd overall, behind Kucherov. Huberdeau has the ability to be a play-maker, but he's not one to transport it.

[Thebrewcrew]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

A pure playmaker.  the #1C.

 

I like it, I can't comment, haven't seen him enough.   Pure playmakers are a tough one to forcast because you never know if it's the playmaker or the goalscorers around them.     If he had a better touch around the net then I'd feel more comfortable.   But without a doubt that's not a requirement to become  a star in the NHL.

Excited to see how he does against Seattle. The Thunderbirds are just ridiculously stacked. Could test for him and Ziemmer.

 

PG will be a very good team next year, could easily see Heidt leading the Dub in scoring next year, leaving everyone baffled that he went in the mid 1st. 

[conundrumed]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Excited to see how he does against Seattle. The Thunderbirds are just ridiculously stacked. Could test for him and Ziemmer.

 

PG will be a very good team next year, could easily see Heidt leading the Dub in scoring next year, leaving everyone baffled that he went in the mid 1st. 

Should I be worried about 97pts but -3?

 

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the biggest problem is that those players are really hard to get. You can only get them at the top of the draft and the Flames haven't really been in that spot for a while.

 

They really lucked out with the Johnny pick. They got a potential HOF player in the 4th round. If there was a re-draft, he likely goes 2nd overall, behind Kucherov. Huberdeau has the ability to be a play-maker, but he's not one to transport it.

 

I think that's what happens when you change the game for a top player.

His best stretch of game IMHO was the start of the year.

Chance to play with Lindholm, a former 40 goal guy.

 

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think that's what happens when you change the game for a top player.

His best stretch of game IMHO was the start of the year.

Chance to play with Lindholm, a former 40 goal guy.

 

 

Yup.  That is a risk with our current mode of solving issues with ufa signings and draft picks.  

 

You pay top dollar for things that are "low" risk which can actually be highly dependant on specific teammates, systems, and coaches.

 

Going back to me blabing earlier about not trusting assists as much as goals, Huberdeau was always high risk.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yup.  That is a risk with our current mode of solving issues with ufa signings and draft picks.  

 

You pay top dollar for things that are "low" risk which can actually be highly dependant on specific teammates, systems, and coaches.

 

Going back to me blabing earlier about not trusting assists as much as goals, Huberdeau was always high risk.

 

Gaudreau was always an assist first player.  But if you take out one 40 goal guy, where is that going to come from?  I don't have an issue with Kadri, other than he was not used right.  He's not the guy to gain the zone.  Put him with another passer on the wrong wing and expect him to be the guy to gain the zone and finish plays?

 

Gaudreau without Monahan in top form was a passer with little targets.  

Huberdeau without a fast break group of finishers is not going to work.

 

With Coronato, I think you need to build a new line.  Not using Kadri, just bringing together a group of similar skilled guys and let them develop.  I suggest Ruzie and Pelletier, because they are the right age to grow together.  Big C that can pass and shoot.  LW that can pass and go to the net.  RW that has a shot.

 

Kadri is the type you need to look at how he was successful and build the line with that.  Duehr maybe a good RW for him.  Need a different type for LW, and I don't know if we have it.  

 

[jjgallow]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gaudreau was always an assist first player.  But if you take out one 40 goal guy, where is that going to come from?  I don't have an issue with Kadri, other than he was not used right.  He's not the guy to gain the zone.  Put him with another passer on the wrong wing and expect him to be the guy to gain the zone and finish plays?

 

Gaudreau without Monahan in top form was a passer with little targets.  

Huberdeau without a fast break group of finishers is not going to work.

 

With Coronato, I think you need to build a new line.  Not using Kadri, just bringing together a group of similar skilled guys and let them develop.  I suggest Ruzie and Pelletier, because they are the right age to grow together.  Big C that can pass and shoot.  LW that can pass and go to the net.  RW that has a shot.

 

Kadri is the type you need to look at how he was successful and build the line with that.  Duehr maybe a good RW for him.  Need a different type for LW, and I don't know if we have it.  

 

 

For me it's about sustainable forward-looking decisions.

 

About 6 consecutive "win now" decisions were made which eventually led to us losing Gaudreau for nothing, so firstly, that should not have happened.  Not to sidetrack, but the them is relevant.

 

In addition to that event not having to take place, in a sustainable organization there is always upcoming talent ready to take on those roles.   Again, we lack that, due to win now decisions.

 

So with this recurring theme,  on Coronato:   He's a sniper, and we should be trying to develop him into a #2 Winger.  That's only going to happen in the AHL at this point, so that's where such building needs to take place.  We should have lines of players down there who perfect being top lines with big responsiblities that pull through.

IMHO we lack that, and we are heading into a rebuild, and having a sniper winger at the start of a rebuild is problematic.

   I'd be very tempted to trade him for a D prospect.   Or even picks.  He's not a great fit because this is probably going to be a very long rebuild.     Whatever we do though, if we promote him to the NHL, we can expect:

1.  Him to lose value quickly

2.  Him to get developed into a player to suit the whims of the coach, rather than what's best for his development and thus the organisation.

 

Basically we can expect to see what happens with literally every first rounder we've done this with.

 

So yes that is probably exactly what we will do lol.

 

 

Kadri:  Should have been traded for picks the very second he went nuts.   I'm not disagreeing with him, but I think it hurt the team.    Backlund did the same thing but respectfully and following proper channels.

        Kadri shoulda been booted,

         Backlund shoulda been listened to, and amends made to keep him.  Even if that means...yes, booting Sutter.

    Anyway, the TDL passed, Kadri is a dinosaur and there's really nothing there to build with.
            There is no building off of players that old

 

 

 

I sound to negative, right?    Maybe.   IMHO the only way this ages as too negative, is if Wolf rescues this organisation in a big way.  He's been making me a believer this season.  But I think we can all see it's a bit early to expect him to rescue us.  And BT still has a lot of time to screw that up.

[zima]

Some one was making noises about BT might be having his last hurrah saying being out there last knight being with the kids could be his last? Then they started talking about a new Gen and all of a sudden they mention sutter OH my god please no he will put us back to the stone age. 

[jjgallow]

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/mock_draft

 

Tankathon has us picking Colby Barlow.

 

I could live with that.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

For me it's about sustainable forward-looking decisions.

 

About 6 consecutive "win now" decisions were made which eventually led to us losing Gaudreau for nothing, so firstly, that should not have happened.  Not to sidetrack, but the them is relevant.

 

In addition to that event not having to take place, in a sustainable organization there is always upcoming talent ready to take on those roles.   Again, we lack that, due to win now decisions.

 

So with this recurring theme,  on Coronato:   He's a sniper, and we should be trying to develop him into a #2 Winger.  That's only going to happen in the AHL at this point, so that's where such building needs to take place.  We should have lines of players down there who perfect being top lines with big responsiblities that pull through.

IMHO we lack that, and we are heading into a rebuild, and having a sniper winger at the start of a rebuild is problematic.

   I'd be very tempted to trade him for a D prospect.   Or even picks.  He's not a great fit because this is probably going to be a very long rebuild.     Whatever we do though, if we promote him to the NHL, we can expect:

1.  Him to lose value quickly

2.  Him to get developed into a player to suit the whims of the coach, rather than what's best for his development and thus the organisation.

 

Basically we can expect to see what happens with literally every first rounder we've done this with.

 

So yes that is probably exactly what we will do lol.

 

 

Kadri:  Should have been traded for picks the very second he went nuts.   I'm not disagreeing with him, but I think it hurt the team.    Backlund did the same thing but respectfully and following proper channels.

        Kadri shoulda been booted,

         Backlund shoulda been listened to, and amends made to keep him.  Even if that means...yes, booting Sutter.

    Anyway, the TDL passed, Kadri is a dinosaur and there's really nothing there to build with.
            There is no building off of players that old

 

 

 

I sound to negative, right?    Maybe.   IMHO the only way this ages as too negative, is if Wolf rescues this organisation in a big way.  He's been making me a believer this season.  But I think we can all see it's a bit early to expect him to rescue us.  And BT still has a lot of time to screw that up.

 

Start with Kadri.  He was the messenger for a team that half the players felt the same thing.  Sutter had a closed door policy, so not being willing to talk it out with Kadri or Hubey created a split.  You can fault Kadri for having a chip destroy his game, but there was a lot in the exact same boat that just shrugged and said whatever.  That was exactly what this team was; whatever.  Hard to get up for games when the coach says it's this way only and half the team feels it's hurting the season.  

 

On Gaudreau and Tkachuk.  For what it's worth, we had 2 players (more actually) that wouldn't play for us this year.  None of them said it was the coach, but the reasons seemed like guys that wanted to spare the coach.  Hard to blame a coach when you have your career year.  Guddy signed in CBJ, but was that the coach's dick comments or playing with Johnny or money.  Gaudreau and Tkachuk never mentioned the coach, but gave some lame sounding reasons.  Blame the wife.  Blame not getting a longer deal when you are positioned to be the highest paid Flame ever.  Weak sauce.

 

I'm not saying Coronato belong or doesn't belong in the NHL.  I don't know.  Who have we really developed that way?  It makes no sense to bring in a prospect and play them on a 4th line that is all grit.  Ruzicka's best was on the top line.  Once he played on the 4th line, he was barely NHL.  Duehr was more like a Hathaway, so it didn't hurt to have him play with Lewis.  Not exactly top 6 material though.

 

Choices

Play him in the AHL with guys that he may never play again with.  He learns the game at the AHL level and gets used to the team and style and players.  He's going to have a tough adjustment to the NHL game.  He gets a call up and plays where there is a need.  He gets pigeonholed as a certain type.

 

Play him in the NHL with similar like minded, same age guys with similar skills.  Shelter the line.  The NHL adjustment happens early in the season when every team is adjusting.  He has a tough game, he sits the next to get a different view.  Not 5 games, just 1.  When he gets his first NHL goal, he will get hungry for the next one.  Key to this type of plan is that you give enough leeway that mistakes are considered learning.  

 

Whatever decisions we make next season, it can't be icing a grit 4th line.  That is how maybe a handful of teams coach.  

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/mock_draft

 

Tankathon has us picking Colby Barlow.

 

I could live with that.

 

 

If you look at the guys that go before we pick, there are some that are going to drop, meaning that other possibly drop to us.  Do you see any you would trade up for?  Meaning likely left at 10-15th.  

 

I looked after us, and the one that popped out was Wood.  Good UConn numbers and size and position, but no idea.  Maybe the weakest division.

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Start with Kadri.  He was the messenger for a team that half the players felt the same thing.  Sutter had a closed door policy, so not being willing to talk it out with Kadri or Hubey created a split.  You can fault Kadri for having a chip destroy his game, but there was a lot in the exact same boat that just shrugged and said whatever.  That was exactly what this team was; whatever.  Hard to get up for games when the coach says it's this way only and half the team feels it's hurting the season.  

 

On Gaudreau and Tkachuk.  For what it's worth, we had 2 players (more actually) that wouldn't play for us this year.  None of them said it was the coach, but the reasons seemed like guys that wanted to spare the coach.  Hard to blame a coach when you have your career year.  Guddy signed in CBJ, but was that the coach's dick comments or playing with Johnny or money.  Gaudreau and Tkachuk never mentioned the coach, but gave some lame sounding reasons.  Blame the wife.  Blame not getting a longer deal when you are positioned to be the highest paid Flame ever.  Weak sauce.

 

I'm not saying Coronato belong or doesn't belong in the NHL.  I don't know.  Who have we really developed that way?  It makes no sense to bring in a prospect and play them on a 4th line that is all grit.  Ruzicka's best was on the top line.  Once he played on the 4th line, he was barely NHL.  Duehr was more like a Hathaway, so it didn't hurt to have him play with Lewis.  Not exactly top 6 material though.

 

Choices

Play him in the AHL with guys that he may never play again with.  He learns the game at the AHL level and gets used to the team and style and players.  He's going to have a tough adjustment to the NHL game.  He gets a call up and plays where there is a need.  He gets pigeonholed as a certain type.

 

Play him in the NHL with similar like minded, same age guys with similar skills.  Shelter the line.  The NHL adjustment happens early in the season when every team is adjusting.  He has a tough game, he sits the next to get a different view.  Not 5 games, just 1.  When he gets his first NHL goal, he will get hungry for the next one.  Key to this type of plan is that you give enough leeway that mistakes are considered learning.  

 

Whatever decisions we make next season, it can't be icing a grit 4th line.  That is how maybe a handful of teams coach.  

Sutter also called out the players after the losses in the playoffs. My brother messaged me and said the stars won't stay as soon as he saw one of his post game hits. I forget what Sutter said, but i don't think I'd like it. 

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you look at the guys that go before we pick, there are some that are going to drop, meaning that other possibly drop to us.  Do you see any you would trade up for?  Meaning likely left at 10-15th.  

 

I looked after us, and the one that popped out was Wood.  Good UConn numbers and size and position, but no idea.  Maybe the weakest division.

 

Seems a lotta skating issues this year, Wood one of them, @conundrumed may have a better idea on who may or may not be able to overcome it, surely some will.

 

My biggest issue is that it's almost impossible to put Wood in a sentence without saying something totally innapropriate.   I can see why Tiger's familly did the smart thing and put an s on the end.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Sutter also called out the players after the losses in the playoffs. My brother messaged me and said the stars won't stay as soon as he saw one of his post game hits. I forget what Sutter said, but i don't think I'd like it. 

 

I don't really remember it.  Maybe something like our best players needed to be our best.  Tkachuk owned up to every loss whether it was his fault or not.  Backlund saying what needed to happen.  This year it was Huberdeau needs to work on his game.  Or Vladar made some good stops but let in a bad one.  Or our PP didn't score or put in the goal that sails over the net or off a post.  Like you goofed.  Markstrom took way more blame than he was ever shown.  I don't recall the coach saying the 4th line was on for a couple goals against. 

 

I don't think the team ever looked as bad as the Jets did when they were called out in the media.  We had some pathetic games, but I don't think they are games you openly criticize them.  We failed but not the way the Jets looked like they didn't care.  Maybe just me.

[jjgallow]

56 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you look at the guys that go before we pick, there are some that are going to drop, meaning that other possibly drop to us.  Do you see any you would trade up for?  Meaning likely left at 10-15th.  

 

I looked after us, and the one that popped out was Wood.  Good UConn numbers and size and position, but no idea.  Maybe the weakest division.

 

I see forwards, yes.   The problem for me is that I feel we have a very long rebuild ahead of us and need defence, and even goaltending (can't just hang it all up on wolf, and even he is going to be old by the time we come out of this).

 

This goes back to what you said about top players doing best on a team that was built around them rather than being moved to new environments.

 

In terms of D/G, I don't know that this is the right draft.   But I think Michkov is so good, you break the rules for him.  But I doubt he'll be available  even at 10.  never know, though.  If he is, you do something about it right there and then, no matter the cost.

 

For these reasons I'm starting to think that unless a Michkov situation materializes, our top priority would be getting back the 2024 1st rounder, rather than upgrading this year.    

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I see forwards, yes.   The problem for me is that I feel we have a very long rebuild ahead of us and need defence, and even goaltending (can't just hang it all up on wolf, and even he is going to be old by the time we come out of this).

 

This goes back to what you said about top players doing best on a team that was built around them rather than being moved to new environments.

 

In terms of D/G, I don't know that this is the right draft.   But I think Michkov is so good, you break the rules for him.  But I doubt he'll be available  even at 10.  never know, though.  If he is, you do something about it right there and then, no matter the cost.

 

For these reasons I'm starting to think that unless a Michkov situation materializes, our top priority would be getting back the 2024 1st rounder, rather than upgrading this year.    

 

Get back the 1st from Montreal.  For Huberdeau.

[jjgallow]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Get back the 1st from Montreal.  For Huberdeau.

 

Would need to send BT there to make it happen

[zima]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:48 AM, travel_dude said:

 

You crack me up.

 

Am I missing something though?

Where did he have a point per game in the MHL?

 

Still waiting for tha last Russian we drafted (while in Russia) to come over.

 

Finally some one who makes sense every rushkioe we have picked have failed to make itr to Canada plus the way things are going over there why would we risk a pick on them.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, zima said:

Finally some one who makes sense every rushkioe we have picked have failed to make itr to Canada plus the way things are going over there why would we risk a pick on them.

 

I don't know if I get it, just that we seemed to pick guys without talking to them.

 

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/mock_draft

 

Tankathon has us picking Colby Barlow.

 

I could live with that.

 

With our 0.8% chance of picking 6th?

Or our 0.2% chance of picking 7th?

Because there is 0% chance that he'll be available at our 99% chance of picking 16th. Zero. None. Nada. 99%.

He's a top 10. Are you a Wings fan?lol

Barlow's a huge talent wallowing on a pretty bad team. The ONLY thing in Owen Sound worth the price of admission. Scorey McScoreface.

He interviews exceptionally well too.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

With our 0.8% chance of picking 6th?

Or our 0.2% chance of picking 7th?

Because there is 0% chance that he'll be available at our 99% chance of picking 16th. Zero. None. Nada. 99%.

He's a top 10. Are you a Wings fan?lol

Barlow's a huge talent wallowing on a pretty bad team. The ONLY thing in Owen Sound worth the price of admission. Scorey McScoreface.

He interviews exceptionally well too.

 

 

I remember a couple drafts ago I started talking a out Wallstedt dropping and how I would lose my mind if he dropped to is and we passed on him.

 

I was  assured there was zero chance of him dropping.   

 

So then after he dropped...lol...everyone seemed to think it was great that we passed on him.  Lol

 

I dunno if it will be Barlow but somebody 's gonna drop.

 

The question is what...then?  Cause there is always a reason.

[travel_dude]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

 

I remember a couple drafts ago I started talking a out Wallstedt dropping and how I would lose my mind if he dropped to is and we passed on him.

 

Peeps and others assured me there was zero chance of him dropping.   

 

So then after he dropped...lol...everyone seemedti think it was great that we passed on him.  Lol

 

I dunno if it will be Barlow but somebody 's gonna drop.

 

The question is what...then?  Cause there is always a reason.

 

Did you not also tout Cossa as being the guy we should be looking at?

RE: Wallstedt - he is not one of the top AHL goalies out there this year.  

 

I would have lost my mind (for a wee bit of time) had we chosen Wallstedt or Cossa.

Especially Cossa, who I always felt played on a stacked team.  

Wolf ending his WHL years and starting AHL with the amazing numbers.

Waited to the playoffs last year to start getting shutouts.

 

Anyway, we didn't need another goalie in 2021.  

We needed more F and D.

I'm not pumping Wolf because of one game.

He's a AHL All Star and will have a longer runway before he needs to be the starter here.

[The_People1]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Did you not also tout Cossa as being the guy we should be looking at?

RE: Wallstedt - he is not one of the top AHL goalies out there this year.  

 

I would have lost my mind (for a wee bit of time) had we chosen Wallstedt or Cossa.

Especially Cossa, who I always felt played on a stacked team.  

Wolf ending his WHL years and starting AHL with the amazing numbers.

Waited to the playoffs last year to start getting shutouts.

 

Anyway, we didn't need another goalie in 2021.  

We needed more F and D.

I'm not pumping Wolf because of one game.

He's a AHL All Star and will have a longer runway before he needs to be the starter here.

 

I wanted Wallstedt.  I thought he was the best technical goalie in the draft.  Also, I felt Wallstedt's development path/timing would've fit perfect for a Flames rebuild at around this time or next season.  Never thought Wolf would emerge out of nowhere to be a legit NHL goalie.  It still looks like Wallstedt is trending well and could play in the NHL in about 2 years but he's likely not a superstar elite goalie.  Cossa I don't know.

 

I also really wanted the Flames to pick Askarov the year before that but he never fell to the Flames turn to draft.  He's in the Nashville system and it will be interesting to see what happens when he's NHL ready and the Preds still have Saros.

[jjgallow]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Did you not also tout Cossa as being the guy we should be looking at?

RE: Wallstedt - he is not one of the top AHL goalies out there this year.  

 

I would have lost my mind (for a wee bit of time) had we chosen Wallstedt or Cossa.

Especially Cossa, who I always felt played on a stacked team.  

Wolf ending his WHL years and starting AHL with the amazing numbers.

Waited to the playoffs last year to start getting shutouts.

 

Anyway, we didn't need another goalie in 2021.  

We needed more F and D.

I'm not pumping Wolf because of one game.

He's a AHL All Star and will have a longer runway before he needs to be the starter here.

 

Oh you gonna bring that up?  lol.    Too bad, it's Archived!  jokes.  Can't wait till the archiving is listed so I can do an "I told you so" post on the Ortio thread.

 

Anyway.  Here's the thread:  

 

 

Looks like a lot of us said a lot of dumb stuff.  lol.

 

So dumb, I almost like the archiving.

 

 

this year @conundrumed's been asking me why I hate Cossa, and I'm like "I don't remember dissing him"...  checked...   @conundrumed was the one dissing him lol.    He's the only one with a clear record but for some reason now he's denying it lol

 

I started the thread off high on both goalies but I had cooled off on Cossa by draft time.  I am okay with my assessment there, preferred Wallstedt, didn't hate Cossa.    I think it's defensible.

 

Speaking of defense, though, my assessment of the D was pretty wild in hindsight lol.   I mean, I got it right that it was a good D year but I was way too excited about D that I thought might fall to us.  A little early but looking that way.  Maybe they'll pull through.   

 

So yeah drafting is hard.  Credit to the scouts.

 

It is also super fun though.

 

Of Askarov/Wallstedt/Cossa, it's admittedly not looking great right now.    The way to go was to pick up some of the higher D on those drafts.   Give it another year or 2 though, these guys are young.