GDT - FLAMES @ Rangers - Monday 6 February 2023 - 5.30pm

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Honestly can't stand the way he plays. I hate the signing. Just a dumb player.

 

He also got popped pretty good in the game.  Head wasnt right.

[cross16]

In its most simplistic form, the reason the flames are out of the playoffs is a lack of timely goals and timely saves. Got the timely goals tonight but couldn’t get the saves. Story continues. 
 

But honestly the management of this team is a joke. Stupid PP changes, Zadarov in OT is ridiculous, no Huberdeau in OT. I hate how this team has been coached this year. 

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This team stinks at OT.

 

It's gonna cost them the playoffs.

not winning games in regulation is what is going to cost them the playoffs. There was no reason this should have been in OT

[jjgallow]

I actually hate NYR.   Fun to watch them lose in the playoffs though

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

In its most simplistic form, the reason the flames are out of the playoffs is a lack of timely goals and timely saves. Got the timely goals tonight but couldn’t get the saves. Story continues. 
 

But honestly the management of this team is a joke. Stupid PP changes, Zadarov in OT is ridiculous, no Huberdeau in OT. I hate how this team has been coached this year. 

 

The first PP of the game, I had no idea what the lineup was.  Hanifin, Dube, Toffoli, Huberdeau, Pelletier?

Or was it Backlund.  Not sure, ince it looked like crap.

 

Lucic was a mess tonight.  His best play was when he walked away from Trouba and Stone scored.

Out in the final minute of OT, and we nearly lose in regulation.

The best part of his game is his toughness and we have to see two regulars fighting.

One of them is our best PK'er.

The OT only comfirms what a mess the decisions are.

I didn't hate the goaltending, but I saw two goals that I didn't like.

Both were Chytyl.  

But, both were odd man rushes.

If we can't play in the moment, why bother.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

not winning games in regulation is what is going to cost them the playoffs. There was no reason this should have been in OT

Fair.

 

Really frustrating team this year. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Little bit of help on the Out of Town Scoreboard, courtesy of the Yotes.

 

The two teams I'm focused on are the Wild and Kings. The Avs will make it. 

[rocketdoctor]

Are you not entertained?

 

Staple Lucic to the bench or send him to the retirment home.  Useless out there.

 

Pelltier looks more dialled in the Hubs or Kadri.    Lindholm's line looks lost at the moment.   PPP units are a mess.

 

Zebras were awful but amazed Mangiapane's goal was not called back (Coleman game 5.... League is a joke with these inconsistent calls)

 

Take a point but damn posts and OT are going to cost us this year.

 

 

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He also got popped pretty good in the game.  Head wasnt right.

It's the zero vision that annoys me. He'll always be a shoot first because he can't actually see open teammates. Then his shots rarely create rebounds. He's pretty one dimensional. Thinks he's a bull in a china shop but isn't. I get more and more frustrated the more that I watch him. Can we trade him for Chytil straight across?

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, rocketdoctor said:

Are you not entertained?

 

Staple Lucic to the bench or send him to the retirment home.  Useless out there.

 

Pelltier looks more dialled in the Hubs or Kadri.    Lindholm's line looks lost at the moment.   PPP units are a mess.

 

Zebras were awful but amazed Mangiapane's goal was not called back (Coleman game 5.... League is a joke with these inconsistent calls)

 

Take a point but damn posts and OT are going to cost us this year.

 

 

 

ya I felt this was more of a kicking motion than the Coleman game 5 goal.  Thought for sure this one wouldn't have counted.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

It's the zero vision that annoys me. He'll always be a shoot first because he can't actually see open teammates. Then his shots rarely create rebounds. He's pretty one dimensional. Thinks he's a bull in a china shop but isn't. I get more and more frustrated the more that I watch him. Can we trade him for Chytil straight across?

 

Kadri is a career 60-point guy who had a career year last season.  Classic buy high UFA that we sank 7-years into.  Comparing him to Backlund, Backlund is a better all around player but Backlund just can't score if his career depended on it.

 

And so inbetween Lindholm and Backlund, we get Kadri.  All three have overlapping skills too much.  All three are great two-way players but lack elite stuff. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It's the zero vision that annoys me. He'll always be a shoot first because he can't actually see open teammates. Then his shots rarely create rebounds. He's pretty one dimensional. Thinks he's a bull in a china shop but isn't. I get more and more frustrated the more that I watch him. Can we trade him for Chytil straight across?

 

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Kadri is a career 60-point guy who had a career year last season.  Classic buy high UFA that we sank 7-years into.  Comparing him to Backlund, Backlund is a better all around player but Backlund just can't score if his career depended on it.

 

And so inbetween Lindholm and Backlund, we get Kadri.  All three have overlapping skills too much.  All three are great two-way players but lack elite stuff. 

 

The thing is he was sky high with assists last year playing with Nichuskin.  He needs to play with that type of talent so that he can pass.  He plays a different game than Huberdeau's E/W game, so the two never seem to connect.  Pelletier is the guy that's always going to be open, but hasn't got the NHL level shot quite yet.  

 

So, that means separate Hubey from Kadri.  That's the easy part.

I might be inclined to use the following lineup to see how it works:

 

Pelletier-Lindholm-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Mangiapane-Backlund-Huberdeau

Coleman-Lewis-Duehr

 

This isn't a shot at Dube or Coleman.  It's making 4 lines that don't struggle out there.

The 4th line was only good when they got in the O-zone.

Lucic made them a target in the D-zone.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Are you not entertained?

 

Staple Lucic to the bench or send him to the retirment home.  Useless out there.

 

Pelltier looks more dialled in the Hubs or Kadri.    Lindholm's line looks lost at the moment.   PPP units are a mess.

 

Zebras were awful but amazed Mangiapane's goal was not called back (Coleman game 5.... League is a joke with these inconsistent calls)

 

Take a point but damn posts and OT are going to cost us this year.

 

 

 

The linesman were completely stunned.  A bad call to take away a scoring chance and a errant icing by Mangiapane, where he is told he wasn't on the ice, that results in a goal.  Non calls have been a joke this season, but the only ones that really bothered me were the so-called legal hits.  Leaving your feet while propelling your shoulder up into the chest/head area.  The intent was a knockout blow.  Principal point of contact be damned.  You are propelling up into the head.

 

Lucic has needed to sit for a few games.  His play was disguised by Huberdeau and Kadri playing well for a few games.  Most of that play was in the PP.

 

I couldn't tell you who was on the PP units.  They were so confusing.  Maybe they practiced that at some point, but they didn't have a practice since before the All Star break.

 

[CheersMan]

No timely saves. Markstrom has allowed a goal on the first shot of the game many times this year, last night I think he makes the first save but lets the second shot in. Second period he lets the first shot in. Again, on the game winning goal Markstrom is flailing around like a fish out of water no where in the blue paint. Pretty hard to win when your goalie can't stay on his feet between the posts. Another 0.847 SA%. Not good enough.   

[sak22]

20 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

No timely saves. Markstrom has allowed a goal on the first shot of the game many times this year, last night I think he makes the first save but lets the second shot in. Second period he lets the first shot in. Again, on the game winning goal Markstrom is flailing around like a fish out of water no where in the blue paint. Pretty hard to win when your goalie can't stay on his feet between the posts. Another 0.847 SA%. Not good enough.   

I don't have a problem with him on the OT goal, what in the world were Mang and Zadorov doing on that?  I think last night was one were Markstrom was the better goalie in the game, 5-0 were the OT shots, scoring chances were 40-27 in favor of the Rangers.  If it was Vladar in net he would be getting praised for earning a point, this is one I think the Flames came out fortunate to take a point as the Rangers were the better team.  

[cross16]

While I don't think it's fair to say he cost them the game, I also don't think he was good enough nor do I think giving him props for outplaying a backup is fair. He should be their starting goalie and you need your starting goalie to win you a game like last night. It's a tricky one because the Flames were really leaky defensively and gave up way too much quality but at the same time if you want to be a starter you need to step up when your team isn't at their best. I don't think i can fine more than a game or 2 this season where Markstrom has been there to bail out his team, but it's been the other way around quite a bit. 

 

Story of Markstrom's season has mostly been solid but not good enough and I think that was repeated last night. He wasn't bad but he also wasn't good enough. It's just way too hard to win consistently in this league if your goaltending if following that script. 

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

While I don't think it's fair to say he cost them the game, I also don't think he was good enough nor do I think giving him props for outplaying a backup is fair. He should be their starting goalie and you need your starting goalie to win you a game like last night. It's a tricky one because the Flames were really leaky defensively and gave up way too much quality but at the same time if you want to be a starter you need to step up when your team isn't at their best. I don't think i can fine more than a game or 2 this season where Markstrom has been there to bail out his team, but it's been the other way around quite a bit. 

 

Story of Markstrom's season has mostly been solid but not good enough and I think that was repeated last night. He wasn't bad but he also wasn't good enough. It's just way too hard to win consistently in this league if your goaltending if following that script. 

I think it was the Jeff Marek show. I know, can't take their word for much, and it's old news or should be past that, but the other day he was remembering how he was wondering if the Edmonton series would affect his career beyond summer, so was just questioning whether that could be the head space Markstrom is still in. 
 

I think we saw that with Talbot coming out of Edmonton where the team was Satoshi Nakamoto and then the confidence lost. Changed his career and mindset. 
 

this could be an off year for him the whole year. Does he need a change of scenery to reboot? Or just time or more reps to get the feeling back?

[sak22]

18 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think it was the Jeff Marek show. I know, can't take their word for much, and it's old news or should be past that, but the other day he was remembering how he was wondering if the Edmonton series would affect his career beyond summer, so was just questioning whether that could be the head space Markstrom is still in. 
 

I think we saw that with Talbot coming out of Edmonton where the team was Satoshi Nakamoto and then the confidence lost. Changed his career and mindset. 
 

this could be an off year for him the whole year. Does he need a change of scenery to reboot? Or just time or more reps to get the feeling back?

Its the whole goalie voodoo thing, some lose it for good (Tommy Salo, Bryzgalov), some just have some off years but bounce back for their team (Fleury comes to mind, I'd even say Kipper had a couple off years here), some bounce around a bit and get back to playing at a better level.  If the teams goaltending doesn't improve I think you might need to look towards a replacement for Labarbera, because even though Vladar has the better numbers they are still very average and I am hesitant to believe he is someone the team can run with. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

While I don't think it's fair to say he cost them the game, I also don't think he was good enough nor do I think giving him props for outplaying a backup is fair. He should be their starting goalie and you need your starting goalie to win you a game like last night. It's a tricky one because the Flames were really leaky defensively and gave up way too much quality but at the same time if you want to be a starter you need to step up when your team isn't at their best. I don't think i can fine more than a game or 2 this season where Markstrom has been there to bail out his team, but it's been the other way around quite a bit. 

 

Story of Markstrom's season has mostly been solid but not good enough and I think that was repeated last night. He wasn't bad but he also wasn't good enough. It's just way too hard to win consistently in this league if your goaltending if following that script. 

 

It was an okay game for Marky.  Not a really good or bad game.  didn't like a couple of goals, but Chytyl; is pretty deceptive.  Inside post and 5 hole.  I find he loses part of the net and allows the perfect shot to go by him without much movement.  He has let that far post shot in more than I can ever remember him doing.  

 

This is by no means suggesting he was the problem, but he wasn't the solution either.  We finally score 4 goals with him in nets and he lets in the next one.  Down by a goal 3 times.  We tie it up and at one point go ahead, next goal ties it and n3exr goal wins it.

 

If you want to be techical, Kadri's poor play (whiffed a back pass and shot off his own teammate in OT) cost us two goals.  But there were some really bad giveaways that maybe didn't do anything other than allow more zone time.  Lucic had a couple.  Hanifin had one, but he earned it back.  Falling on a play.  Goalie needs to bail you out some times, because the players bail him out too.

[The_People1]

20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

The thing is he was sky high with assists last year playing with Nichuskin.  He needs to play with that type of talent so that he can pass.  He plays a different game than Huberdeau's E/W game, so the two never seem to connect.  Pelletier is the guy that's always going to be open, but hasn't got the NHL level shot quite yet.  

 

So, that means separate Hubey from Kadri.  That's the easy part.

I might be inclined to use the following lineup to see how it works:

 

Pelletier-Lindholm-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Mangiapane-Backlund-Huberdeau

Coleman-Lewis-Duehr

 

This isn't a shot at Dube or Coleman.  It's making 4 lines that don't struggle out there.

The 4th line was only good when they got in the O-zone.

Lucic made them a target in the D-zone.

 

I'm still thinking the answer is Huberdeau - Kadri - Puljujarvi and we should try to acquire Puljujarvi as soon as possible.  The price must be at an all time low right now.  Puljujarvi's strengths is defense and defense.  But in the offensive zone, he pays the price to get to the front of the net for screens and rebounds.  Huberdeau plays well with someone like that.  Puljujarvi also draws similar skills to Nichushkin before he broke out with Kadri.  The trio could work well together and it should be a low risk move at this point.

[conundrumed]

1. Z failed to clear the rebound

2. Why is he on the ice 3-on-3

3. Why is Lucic on the ice with <1 minute of regulation

4. We resuscitated Lucic's reputation. How much more do we owe him? i.e. Why is he playing?

 

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

1. Z failed to clear the rebound

2. Why is he on the ice 3-on-3

3. Why is Lucic on the ice with <1 minute of regulation

4. We resuscitated Lucic's reputation. How much more do we owe him? i.e. Why is he playing?

 

 

Big Z showing his ceiling as a 4/5/6 guy.  He shouldn't be playing 3-on-3.  Just run with Andersson, Weegar, and Hanifin.  That's all.  No Zadorov.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm still thinking the answer is Huberdeau - Kadri - Puljujarvi and we should try to acquire Puljujarvi as soon as possible.  The price must be at an all time low right now.  Puljujarvi's strengths is defense and defense.  But in the offensive zone, he pays the price to get to the front of the net for screens and rebounds.  Huberdeau plays well with someone like that.  Puljujarvi also draws similar skills to Nichushkin before he broke out with Kadri.  The trio could work well together and it should be a low risk move at this point.

 

If there was some appetite to make that trade, it should have happened by now.

Leaving out Hubey for a moment, Pooly would fit with Kadri.

So, an adjusted lineup with Pooly:

 

Pelletier-Lindholm-Toffoli

Huberdeau-Kadri-Pooly

Mangiapane-Backlund-Dube

Coleman-Ruzicka-Duehr(Lewis)

Ex. Lucic, Ritchie, Lewis (possibly dealt in trade or waived)

 

We can actually send Lewis, Rooney and a 4th (2024) and they still clear $2M in cap.

As much as Lewis is a good soldier, we don't need another guy in the room with a cup ring.

 

[cross16]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm still thinking the answer is Huberdeau - Kadri - Puljujarvi and we should try to acquire Puljujarvi as soon as possible.  The price must be at an all time low right now.  Puljujarvi's strengths is defense and defense.  But in the offensive zone, he pays the price to get to the front of the net for screens and rebounds.  Huberdeau plays well with someone like that.  Puljujarvi also draws similar skills to Nichushkin before he broke out with Kadri.  The trio could work well together and it should be a low risk move at this point.

 

I'm not sure how much more evidence and hockey we need to watch to see that Huberdeau and Kadri don't work well. 

 

It's been a while since I've since this many frustrating lineup decisions for a Flames team. 

 

As connundrumed said why is Zadorov on the ice in OT? 

Weegar is one of their best skating dman, why does he never see the ice in OT?

Huberdeau is literally one of the best 3 on 3 players the game has seen since it was adopted and he gets stapled to the bench. Why would you not use this as a means for a player to get their confidence? I don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto if he took a bad penalty 1 time, you don't need to cut your nose off to spite your face. 

Your PP is struggling and you've got a wicked pure shooter in Lindholm. Why are you not running the cross seam play or getting him into open areas to shoot the puck?

Weegar did a great job on the PP in Florida, why never use him here?

 

Constantly banging my head against the wall with the club this year. 

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not sure how much more evidence and hockey we need to watch to see that Huberdeau and Kadri don't work well. 

 

It's been a while since I've since this many frustrating lineup decisions for a Flames team. 

 

As connundrumed said why is Zadorov on the ice in OT? 

Weegar is one of their best skating dman, why does he never see the ice in OT?

Huberdeau is literally one of the best 3 on 3 players the game has seen since it was adopted and he gets stapled to the bench. Why would you not use this as a means for a player to get their confidence? I don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto if he took a bad penalty 1 time, you don't need to cut your nose off to spite your face. 

Your PP is struggling and you've got a wicked pure shooter in Lindholm. Why are you not running the cross seam play or getting him into open areas to shoot the puck?

Weegar did a great job on the PP in Florida, why never use him here?

 

Constantly banging my head against the wall with the club this year. 

 

Kadri shouldn't be the guy carrying the puck, because he is not going to pass it.

They seem to move him away from the bumper spot on the PP, which a lot of analysts say is wrong.

But the PP has way more problems than just him alone.

It's not executing any plan that makes sense.

A lot of shifts it stays entirely on one side and the other team overload it.

Meanwhile, the other side of the ice has one guy defending.

Maybe that's when they have Hanifin out there and he plays catch with Huberdeau and Kadri.

 

We see strange usage in OT, but even before then...

Lucic with 13 minutes of ice on the 4th line as well as the penalties he took?

Last minute of play in a tied game and he is out there?

Last game on for 12 chances against of which 6 were HD ones?

 

I can understand the defense usage at 5v5 somewhat.

I can't really understand the PP usage at all.

Ras is a good puck carrier, but always uses the bump back.

Like it's fooling anyone?

There doesn't seem to be any real plan on the PP.

Kadri might be better off behind the net like Tkachuk used to be used.

Draw someone out or get guys moving into position.

Whatever.  It's not looking like there is any plan.

 

Dube's 15 minutes or so of penalties messed up the lines and we used Lucic in his place.

Must have been a better idea than that.

I think he actually played with the top line then.

Yikes.