Flames 22/23 Lineup

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Lewis has been fantastic this season in his role. Not just 5 on 5, where’s he’s been one of their most consistent players, he’s a key player for them on the PK. Not to mention his 7 goals are tied for 5th on the team. 
 

I get the development argument and want Phillips to play too, but Lewis has earned the he role and trust he has. 

 

Lucic is a bit of an issue but it seemed like the best that line played was with Lucic and Ritchie.

Ritchie is perhaps injured and looks worse now.

I don't really have a solution for the 2nd line, but really need to move Lucic back down.

Lewis is worth more than 9 minutes as is Ruzicka.

PK he gets more minutes, but he drives play more than just the PK.

 

I don't know that Phillips can take 2nd line role, but I doubt he would be as bad without the puck as Lucic.

I would lean towards Ruzicka on the 2nd line and play Lucic-Lewis-Phillips in that case.

Or Phillips at C.  I believe that's his normal position.

Having Lewis with him would be safe.

[cross16]

With a fairly light schedule the next 10 days it doesn't make much sense to carry extra bodies. 

 

 

[conundrumed]

 

[travel_dude]

I think the team really feels for Hubey and really was happy that he got the GWG.

They know they need hm to be the guy.

We have others but they are not the leaders.

 

On another note, it must be frustrating to have to drag the 1000 pound elephant around every shift.

Some say he's helping Hubey find his game.

Some say he helps Hubey by creating space.

I am not one of those people.

Offhand, I can think of three wingers that would fit 10x better.

We shouldn't just be trying to grind out a win.

You can't play that way for 82 games.

Save some of that for the playoffs, if that's what you need to beat a team.

[conundrumed]

Prolly doesn't help much being the 7th most penalized team in the league. I think us and Minny(2nd) are the only 2 teams able to be somewhat successful whilst taking so many penalties if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if they take as many dumb ones as us. That has to get cleaned up.

"Refs are unfair to us", said every fan of every team in the league.

Nope. Good teams win in spite of reffing. It's always been that way.

Kinda like, "we scored 1 goal but got railroaded by reffing". - Us probably.

[jjgallow]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:17 AM, cross16 said:

 

We can keep talking about this but that would assume it was ever on the table and I think by now we know what that answer is. I agree they should have rebuilt and gotten younger but I don't think that was every on the table. 

 

On when they play together Weegar/Tanev have been one of the best shutdown pairings in the NHL. 

 

I've always been of the opinion that we Should keep talking about it.   Preferably with our wallets, until ownership gets it.

 

Most fans like to blame the coach/goalie

 

I like to blame the GM

 

Deep down I know I should be blaming the owners.

 

 

Deeper, deeper down, I know it's whoever's creating that revenue for the owners.  It's us.

 

         I am personally convinced that a hockey City existed here in the 80's, maybe 90's that would not have tolerated trading away picks/prospects for 30-somethings.    That would not have tolerated cap-killing contracts.   I vividly remember when Al MacInnis signed his "million dollar contract" here after the cup, which was seen by fans and media as the beginning of the end of the Flames 89 dynasty.   The GM was under fire.  Al was under fire.  

 

Now the GM does something like that and he gets anointed saviour.  By the fans.   We all saw it.

 

It's like applauding someone for remortgaging their house and maxing all their credit cards for a one-night bender.   And paying them to do it.

 

If we don't talk about it, we aren't any better than the owners we blame.   In fact we are the money that drives it.  Imho people should be outraged when our future is sacrificed and I do remember a time when people were.

[cross16]

14 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Prolly doesn't help much being the 7th most penalized team in the league. I think us and Minny(2nd) are the only 2 teams able to be somewhat successful whilst taking so many penalties if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if they take as many dumb ones as us. That has to get cleaned up.

"Refs are unfair to us", said every fan of every team in the league.

Nope. Good teams win in spite of reffing. It's always been that way.

Kinda like, "we scored 1 goal but got railroaded by reffing". - Us probably.

 

 

As of the Oilers game the Flames have given up 15 more goals on the PK this year than last. That was a pretty surprising number to me and it's due almost entirely to the fact they are taking more penalties. Clean that up and things would look better. 

 

I don't think they can blame bad officiating either. They are just taking a lot of dumb and bad penalties so far this year, mostly due to the fact that they have been a step behind the play in many games.  

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

As of the Oilers game the Flames have given up 15 more goals on the PK this year than last. That was a pretty surprising number to me and it's due almost entirely to the fact they are taking more penalties. Clean that up and things would look better. 

 

I don't think they can blame bad officiating either. They are just taking a lot of dumb and bad penalties so far this year, mostly due to the fact that they have been a step behind the play in many games.  

I think this is the crux of the matter. We can line up however we like, if we can't cut the dumb penalties out it may not matter. Half of the top 6 getting exhausted killing penalties.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I've always been of the opinion that we Should keep talking about it.   Preferably with our wallets, until ownership gets it.

 

Most fans like to blame the coach/goalie

 

I like to blame the GM

 

Deep down I know I should be blaming the owners.

 

 

Deeper, deeper down, I know it's whoever's creating that revenue for the owners.  It's us.

 

         I am personally convinced that a hockey City existed here in the 80's, maybe 90's that would not have tolerated trading away picks/prospects for 30-somethings.    That would not have tolerated cap-killing contracts.   I vividly remember when Al MacInnis signed his "million dollar contract" here after the cup, which was seen by fans and media as the beginning of the end of the Flames 89 dynasty.   The GM was under fire.  Al was under fire.  

 

Now the GM does something like that and he gets anointed saviour.  By the fans.   We all saw it.

 

It's like applauding someone for remortgaging their house and maxing all their credit cards for a one-night bender.   And paying them to do it.

 

If we don't talk about it, we aren't any better than the owners we blame.   In fact we are the money that drives it.  Imho people should be outraged when our future is sacrificed and I do remember a time when people were.

 

How about starting a thread entirely devoted to trashing the GM for the decisions he has made, instead of infecting every thread with the same opinions.  I get that you responded to one line in a post, but clearly that was not the point of his post.  

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

How about starting a thread entirely devoted to trashing the GM for the decisions he has made, instead of infecting every thread with the same opinions.  I get that you responded to one line in a post, but clearly that was not the point of his post.  

 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

As of the Oilers game the Flames have given up 15 more goals on the PK this year than last. That was a pretty surprising number to me and it's due almost entirely to the fact they are taking more penalties. Clean that up and things would look better. 

 

I don't think they can blame bad officiating either. They are just taking a lot of dumb and bad penalties so far this year, mostly due to the fact that they have been a step behind the play in many games.  

 

I'm also not really blaming the refs for the calls against us.  While some may be marginal and the playoffs were frustrating for calling everything under the sun, it's something you have to deal with on the ice and by the GM in media scrums.  Call out the refs and you may get a bit of a reprieve, but are as likely to have them be even more picky.  My only complaint is the games that are one sided even though the infractions are similar.  Put away the whistles or don't put them away.  

 

We aren't losing games because of penalties.  We are losing because we aren't scoring when we need to or not getting a save at the right time.  The goals let in may be a team effect, but doesn't matter.  Fix that part.  IF you score a go ahead goal, don't go into a shell and play the next shift like you have a 5 goal lead.  And maybe the coach needs to see that the next shift after a PP or a goal has the other team putting out its top players.  May not be the right time to just roll the next line.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm also not really blaming the refs for the calls against us.  While some may be marginal and the playoffs were frustrating for calling everything under the sun, it's something you have to deal with on the ice and by the GM in media scrums.  Call out the refs and you may get a bit of a reprieve, but are as likely to have them be even more picky.  My only complaint is the games that are one sided even though the infractions are similar.  Put away the whistles or don't put them away.  

 

We aren't losing games because of penalties.  We are losing because we aren't scoring when we need to or not getting a save at the right time.  The goals let in may be a team effect, but doesn't matter.  Fix that part.  IF you score a go ahead goal, don't go into a shell and play the next shift like you have a 5 goal lead.  And maybe the coach needs to see that the next shift after a PP or a goal has the other team putting out its top players.  May not be the right time to just roll the next line.

 

Maybe not losing games but they are losing points. If Mang doesn't take that penalty against the Oilers maybe they get it into OT. What if Huberdeau doesn't take that penalty right away in OT against TO? In their first game against the Kraken it was a PPG that got them back in the game. Not to mention, you make it really challenging on yourself to score if your killing so many penalties. Hard to expect guys like Huberdeau/Kadri to get playing at a high level if they are on the bench a lot. 

 

I get the overall point here that penalties are just one aspect but it's got a lot of ripple effects. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Maybe not losing games but they are losing points. If Mang doesn't take that penalty against the Oilers maybe they get it into OT. What if Huberdeau doesn't take that penalty right away in OT against TO? In their first game against the Kraken it was a PPG that got them back in the game. Not to mention, you make it really challenging on yourself to score if your killing so many penalties. Hard to expect guys like Huberdeau/Kadri to get playing at a high level if they are on the bench a lot. 

 

I get the overall point here that penalties are just one aspect but it's got a lot of ripple effects. 

 

For sure.  We had a string of OT penalties that drove me up the wall.

A 4 minute PK and we lose in the shootout?

The worse thing about the high number of PK's is that it messes up lines.

Players sit and get cold.

Lindholm plays 20 minutes and a quarter if it is on the PK.

Or the players that PK take penalties.

 

Anyway, I don't think there is one right answer, just a number of things we can improve.

Lazy penalties from being on the wrong side of a play.

Putting the goalie in a situation where he has to play for both the shooter and passer.

 

[jjgallow]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

How about starting a thread entirely devoted to trashing the GM for the decisions he has made, instead of infecting every thread with the same opinions.  I get that you responded to one line in a post, but clearly that was not the point of his post.  

 

ok.  Fair post.

 

But I do have a defense/suggestion.

 

That thread you speak of already exists.  Problem is I can't find it.   

 

I scrolled back 5 pages though, and I did find 4 other threads started by people who also couldn't find it and started their own.   I can't find a lot of threads, actually, in the current format.

 

I would suggest moving these game-day threads back to their original home.  Totally up to you, jmho.

 

 

 

p.s....I also have one other less urgent but ongoing suggestion:   Maybe we just stop archiving/locking/truncating threads. 

 So many incredible threads are lost.  If I really want to see the forum in it's prime I have to go on the wayback machine because it's all been archived/locked/truncated here.     I think if you just let people decide which topics are the most relevant for them to talk on, the forum will naturally be more organized.   Some topics die.   Some topics lose relevance for 6-12 months, and then become relevant again.     Anyway in my post that you roasted me for, I actually said it's admittedly naive to blame the GM.   It goes beyond that.  To the owners, and the fans.   I made a topic on that 4 years ago.   People were furious that anything could be their fault lol.   That thread may not be relevant again until we really are in a rebuild.   But that time is going to come.   Some topics really become relevant in 5-year, 8 year cycles.  That's natural.  And it's ok.

..

Another example...the defense thread.  Probably the most important thread in this forum but due to human nature I have to bump it every 3 months to keep it from getting archived.   Even now, in a highly relevant year.

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

I would suggest moving these game-day threads back to their original home.  Totally up to you, jmho.

Completely agree.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok.  Fair post.

 

But I do have a defense/suggestion.

 

That thread you speak of already exists.  Problem is I can't find it.   

 

I scrolled back 5 pages though, and I did find 4 other threads started by people who also couldn't find it and started their own.   I can't find a lot of threads, actually, in the current format.

 

I would suggest moving these game-day threads back to their original home.  Totally up to you, jmho.

 

 

 

p.s....I also have one other less urgent but ongoing suggestion:   Maybe we just stop archiving/locking/truncating threads. 

 So many incredible threads are lost.  If I really want to see the forum in it's prime I have to go on the wayback machine because it's all been archived/locked/truncated here.     I think if you just let people decide which topics are the most relevant for them to talk on, the forum will naturally be more organized.   Some topics die.   Some topics lose relevance for 6-12 months, and then become relevant again.     Anyway in my post that you roasted me for, I actually said it's admittedly naive to blame the GM.   It goes beyond that.  To the owners, and the fans.   I made a topic on that 4 years ago.   People were furious that anything could be their fault lol.   That thread may not be relevant again until we really are in a rebuild.   But that time is going to come.   Some topics really become relevant in 5-year, 8 year cycles.  That's natural.  And it's ok.

..

Another example...the defense thread.  Probably the most important thread in this forum but due to human nature I have to bump it every 3 months to keep it from getting archived.   Even now, in a highly relevant year.

 

That would be up to the administrator.  I just mod threads to try to keep them on track.

I too wish we had a group where the GDT ones were grouped.

Not sure if that was a NHL thing or not.

 

Unfortunately, the long running threads may have started 5 years ago, which is a lot of stuff not needed.

I will be honest here, a thread from that long ago really doesn't have a lot of relevance.

Most aren't going to go back 50 pages to see a response.

Most of the posters from that time don't even post now.

 

Anyway, just trying to keep things moving.

If you don't see a thread and have new info, start a new one.

The new thoughts don't have much connection to ones from 2 years ago or longer.

[jjgallow]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That would be up to the administrator.  I just mod threads to try to keep them on track.

I too wish we had a group where the GDT ones were grouped.

Not sure if that was a NHL thing or not.

 

Unfortunately, the long running threads may have started 5 years ago, which is a lot of stuff not needed.

I will be honest here, a thread from that long ago really doesn't have a lot of relevance.

Most aren't going to go back 50 pages to see a response.

Most of the posters from that time don't even post now.

 

Anyway, just trying to keep things moving.

If you don't see a thread and have new info, start a new one.

The new thoughts don't have much connection to ones from 2 years ago or longer.

 

ok understood, I don't mean to be hard on you and I completely agree I shouldn't have rebuild-bombed this thread.  I appreciate everything you do.

 

Just please keep in mind, with regards to archiving/locking/truncating, that there may be a correlation between people not posting from that time period anymore.   Let's be honest we've lost a lot of people and have declined significantly in popularity.    It was around the same time we started losing administrative control of the forum (to the NHL?), and also around the time the archiving/truncating started.  I even stopped posting for a year in hopes my lack of negativity would help 😅.   But didn't help.  

 

Just some thoughts on retaining users....wondering how many people want to put time into expressing/publishing their thoughts after all their previous ones were deleted?      

 

Gonna be honest I am seeing zero other social media platforms succeed with that.

 

 

[travel_dude]

There has been a couple of changes to the site outside our control.  Both of them resulted in people not coming back.  I was locked out for a week or so.  Peeps was helpful in re-instating users.  You may also remember that some lost their entire history.  That was a different event.

 

But there are many other reasons people stop posting.  Some get turned off from negatives.  Some get PO's at what others say.  No fingers pointed because we all say things that can put people off.  Also, people move on.  Hard core types still hang on.  We lost some regulars to personal things, as you know.  Some of them were every day posters.  I just want to keep things on point when possible.  That is tough.  When we lose we get the sky is falling.  When we win, we get a mix.  At draft we have hurt feelings and anger.  Same with trades.  It's all good conversation.  Just easier to maintain the thread when it doesn't divert too much.

 

This is at least a place where informed people come.  I have looked at other sites and it's the same people with the same dumb comments.  I use them for entertainment not informed opinion.  Some people see things here that others miss.  And other interpret the eye stiff differently.  And the fancy stats also show things we maybe don't really see when we lose.

[travel_dude]

BTW, the last security update changed some things that may not have been recoverable.  

I was getting the page doesn't exist for the main page.

I also often get Error 400 or whatever for no good reason.

There have been days at a time I have zero access.

It sucks, but hey the Oilers don't even have a fan site.

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

There has been a couple of changes to the site outside our control.  Both of them resulted in people not coming back.  I was locked out for a week or so.  Peeps was helpful in re-instating users.  You may also remember that some lost their entire history.  That was a different event.

 

But there are many other reasons people stop posting.  Some get turned off from negatives.  Some get PO's at what others say.  No fingers pointed because we all say things that can put people off.  Also, people move on.  Hard core types still hang on.  We lost some regulars to personal things, as you know.  Some of them were every day posters.  I just want to keep things on point when possible.  That is tough.  When we lose we get the sky is falling.  When we win, we get a mix.  At draft we have hurt feelings and anger.  Same with trades.  It's all good conversation.  Just easier to maintain the thread when it doesn't divert too much.

 

This is at least a place where informed people come.  I have looked at other sites and it's the same people with the same dumb comments.  I use them for entertainment not informed opinion.  Some people see things here that others miss.  And other interpret the eye stiff differently.  And the fancy stats also show things we maybe don't really see when we lose.

I've been crash, carbuncle and now this.

When I tried to come back, "sorry, those names are taken". lol

By me of course. But I remain gruntled rather than cry over a c word.

 

[Heartbreaker]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

...

There have been days at a time I have zero access.

It sucks, but hey the Oilers don't even have a fan site.

 

Hmmm...

 

I wonder if they would trade McDavid for a fan site...

 

Love.

[jjgallow]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

There has been a couple of changes to the site outside our control.  Both of them resulted in people not coming back.  I was locked out for a week or so.  Peeps was helpful in re-instating users.  You may also remember that some lost their entire history.  That was a different event.

 

But there are many other reasons people stop posting.  Some get turned off from negatives.  Some get PO's at what others say.  No fingers pointed because we all say things that can put people off.  Also, people move on.  Hard core types still hang on.  We lost some regulars to personal things, as you know.  Some of them were every day posters.  I just want to keep things on point when possible.  That is tough.  When we lose we get the sky is falling.  When we win, we get a mix.  At draft we have hurt feelings and anger.  Same with trades.  It's all good conversation.  Just easier to maintain the thread when it doesn't divert too much.

 

This is at least a place where informed people come.  I have looked at other sites and it's the same people with the same dumb comments.  I use them for entertainment not informed opinion.  Some people see things here that others miss.  And other interpret the eye stiff differently.  And the fancy stats also show things we maybe don't really see when we lose.

 

I'll stop whining, I like this site the best and always have.   If the NHL would give us full control back I think we'd crush all the other sites though.  and I'll try and stop rebuild-bombing.

 

But before I do, your comments about users getting frustrated, I do agree it's half-true (the other half being other sites are gaining users and that goes back to administrative issues).     True, guys like me being negative on every thread probably doesn't help and I'll try to keep that in check.   Would be nice if the site was organised in a way for that to be natural is all.

Users getting frustrated:   I do think mediocrity (Flames) is hard on forums.   The hardcores are all here, we are either eternally hopeful or angry through mediocrity (cough cough).   

 

The next surge of new users will be in our next rebuild (sorry), and that growth period will probably continue until our next 2004 season (or better).    Rebuilds may suck but you get hope and people get interested at that point.

Would be cool if there was some way to get our forum fixed up beforehand.   Could be as simple as giving back a bit more admin rights, I'm not privy to that.  But it would make a big difference were it to happen.

[JTech780]

Part of why we are seeing Lucic playing in the top 6 is because we don’t have enough size and net front presence in our skilled players, to play Sutter style hockey.

 

Offensively Sutter is all about shot volume and getting bodies to the net. Right now Lucic is creating space for Huberdeau and Kadri to do their thing. 
 

Now we can debate wether Sutter’s system is effective or not, which is fair, but I think Treliving needs to find players that fit what the coach is looking to do.

 

Ruzicka has tons of skill and size, but he still doesn’t use his size effectively and IMO that’s what’s keeping him from being a regular in the top 9.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Prolly doesn't help much being the 7th most penalized team in the league. I think us and Minny(2nd) are the only 2 teams able to be somewhat successful whilst taking so many penalties if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if they take as many dumb ones as us. That has to get cleaned up.

"Refs are unfair to us", said every fan of every team in the league.

Nope. Good teams win in spite of reffing. It's always been that way.

Kinda like, "we scored 1 goal but got railroaded by reffing". - Us probably.

do you view the team as one of the more hated teams by the officials still? Is the Wideman effect still a thing, or have the flames deserved to be where they are ranked? 
 

I agree with penalties being called, I just don't agree with officiating when other teams get away with calls that they've been calling on the Flames. Maybe I'm biased (fan bias).

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

do you view the team as one of the more hated teams by the officials still? Is the Wideman effect still a thing, or have the flames deserved to be where they are ranked? 
 

I agree with penalties being called, I just don't agree with officiating when other teams get away with calls that they've been calling on the Flames. Maybe I'm biased (fan bias).

I think they deserve it. Everyone thinks the refs are out to get their team. I don't believe it. They try to be balanced, but they make mistakes, sometimes gross ones. Just like goalies wanting a goal back, I'm sure refs would like some calls/non-calls back. They're not perfect so you have to win in spite of what reffing does. If you lose because of a call/non-call, you put yourself in that position.

It sucks, but that's the way she goes.