2022 Offseason

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I'm just going to say this.  Teams are going to pay whatever they are forced to to get the unicorn player of Tkachuk.  They might not like it, the fans might give them some grief for paying too much, but ultimately, if they miss out they will have balked at the sale of the century.  Team altering trades don't happen much.  This is Iggy for Newy level.

Exactly! 
 

Nd Tachuck is a unique player..agitation Power forward that can score…like

you said Unicorn and he’s gonna command a good return cause every team wants him or a guy like him…in many ways he’s better than Gaudreau as he’s younger and has the potential to be much better than he is now…prime age for most

NHL players is around 27 he’s still got about 3 to go before he hits his prime and he’s this good already?

 

nothing less than that asking price…

 

he’s definitely gonna get at least an Eichle return or better.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Interesting comparison 

 

Bratt vs Kyrou

5 on 5

Goals 22-21 Kyrou

Assists 29-28 Bratt

Total 5 on 5 points 50-50

SOG 166-149 Bratt

Shooting% 14.7-12.6 Kyrou

Scoring Chances 163-152 Kyrou

High Danger Chances 66-52 Bratt

 

Total (PP and even strength)

Total points 75-73 Kyrou in two less games.

Goals 27-26 Kyrou

Assists 48-47 Kyrou

 

 

These are very similar players. Kyrou has 1yr at 2.8, Bratt is an RFA looking for a big raise. It might simply come down to preference

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I'm just going to say this.  Teams are going to pay whatever they are forced to to get the unicorn player of Tkachuk.  They might not like it, the fans might give them some grief for paying too much, but ultimately, if they miss out they will have balked at the sale of the century.  Team altering trades don't happen much.  This is Iggy for Newy level.

 

i doNt think so. Iginla was the franchise. I don't think he's that level... but, close. 

[JTech780]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Not sure if true.  NJ's draft day offer was the 20A and a 7th round pick for Tkachuk.

 

 

I went back and read this thread, and if true, it goes on to say that ownership is saying they want to do a Rangers style retool. 
 

If that’s true, that’s one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. For one thing we are not an elite destination like NY, so we are not going to get players like Panarin, Fox and Trouba basically begging to play for our team. That’s what expedited their retool. We won’t have that luxury.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i doNt think so. Iginla was the franchise. I don't think he's that level... but, close. 

 

I'm not talking about trading Iggy.  Was the trade that brought him here.  We sent a player that hekped Dallas win the cup.  I won't argue whether Tkachuk ever reaches Iggy level, because we won't ever see it.  We lost the top player on the team and are losing the most impactful player in more than just scoring.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not talking about trading Iggy.  Was the trade that brought him here.  We sent a player that hekped Dallas win the cup.  I won't argue whether Tkachuk ever reaches Iggy level, because we won't ever see it.  We lost the top player on the team and are losing the most impactful player in more than just scoring.

 

ohhh ok, was thinking Tkachuk and Iginla

 

 

[The_People1]

45 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Interesting comparison 

 

Bratt vs Kyrou

5 on 5

Goals 22-21 Kyrou

Assists 29-28 Bratt

Total 5 on 5 points 50-50

SOG 166-149 Bratt

Shooting% 14.7-12.6 Kyrou

Scoring Chances 163-152 Kyrou

High Danger Chances 66-52 Bratt

 

Total (PP and even strength)

Total points 75-73 Kyrou in two less games.

Goals 27-26 Kyrou

Assists 48-47 Kyrou

 

 

These are very similar players. Kyrou has 1yr at 2.8, Bratt is an RFA looking for a big raise. It might simply come down to preference

 

Ya main difference is Kyrou is RHS.  And Kyrou is regular size and Bratt is small.

 

Kyrou is more balanced in his game   Bratt is all about speed he drives play better.  It's amazing the end results are so similar.

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I went back and read this thread, and if true, it goes on to say that ownership is saying they want to do a Rangers style retool. 
 

If that’s true, that’s one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. For one thing we are not an elite destination like NY, so we are not going to get players like Panarin, Fox and Trouba basically begging to play for our team. That’s what expedited their retool. We won’t have that luxury.

 

We've been agreeing too much lately.   Yes exactly... Doing a Rangers style retool is denying the reality that we are after all, a "smaller" market team.  Plus, Rangers got the #1 overall pick from the weird 2020 lottery system.

 

Yes gifted Fox and pretty much gifted Panarin.  Trouba was a good trade.  They just have it much easier.

[jjgallow]

50 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I went back and read this thread, and if true, it goes on to say that ownership is saying they want to do a Rangers style retool. 
 

If that’s true, that’s one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. For one thing we are not an elite destination like NY, so we are not going to get players like Panarin, Fox and Trouba basically begging to play for our team. That’s what expedited their retool. We won’t have that luxury.

 

A small-market team being forced into a shot-gun firesale for sure will send super well, sigh.

[JTech780]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We've been agreeing too much lately.   Yes exactly... Doing a Rangers style retool is denying the reality that we are after all, a "smaller" market team.  Plus, Rangers got the #1 overall pick from the weird 2020 lottery system.

 

Yes gifted Fox and pretty much gifted Panarin.  Trouba was a good trade.  They just have it much easier.

If I remember correctly Trouba basically pulled the same thing Tkachuk is doing, and decided he wanted to go to the NY area, and forced a trade.

[conundrumed]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya main difference is Kyrou is RHS.  And Kyrou is regular size and Bratt is small.

 

Kyrou is more balanced in his game   Bratt is all about speed he drives play better.  It's amazing the end results are so similar.

Everyone's throwing Kyrou's name out there like Army has a desire to trade him.

I highly doubt he does.

He's running a hockey team. Not hung up on one player's "ties".

I'd count Detroit out too.

He's pretty toxic. Mgrs talk.

We need to maximize his value now.

This can't linger into the season. His value could depreciate.

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Everyone's throwing Kyrou's name out there like Army has a desire to trade him.

I highly doubt he does.

He's running a hockey team. Not hung up on one player's "ties".

I'd count Detroit out too.

He's pretty toxic. Mgrs talk.

We need to maximize his value now.

This can't linger into the season. His value could depreciate.

 

Ya agreed.  We need to pull the trigger while many teams are interested.  Don't be like BUF and Eichel where many teams simply moved on and BUF couldn't circle back.

[The_People1]

58 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

If I remember correctly Trouba basically pulled the same thing Tkachuk is doing, and decided he wanted to go to the NY area, and forced a trade.

 

Thinking a little more about this and I feel the saddest part about the whole "Rangers retool" comment is that the Rangers have won nothing.

 

My goodness.  We going to do what the Rangers did because why?  Because Cups?  Because bounced back to mediocrity quickly?  What a sad goal to aim for a Rangers retool.. why would you emulate something that did not win a Cup?

 

Instead, there are a few Cup winners here... Avs.  TBay.  No?  Don't follow what they did?  Follow the Rangers?  Why try what the Rangers did when there are two very recent success stories to follow?

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thinking a little more about this and I feel the saddest part about the whole "Rangers retool" comment is that the Rangers have won nothing.

 

My goodness.  We going to do what the Rangers did because why?  Because Cups?  Because bounced back to mediocrity quickly?  What a sad goal to aim for a Rangers retool.. why would you emulate something that did not win a Cup?

 

Instead, there are a few Cup winners here... Avs.  TBay.  No?  Don't follow what they did?  Follow the Rangers?  Why try what the Rangers did when there are two very recent success stories to follow?

Yes and one of them…the Avs have turned their team around in short order on a few occasions and have been a fairly competitive team the whole time say for the year before they drafted McKinon.

 

the key to an Avs style rebuild/tool is that they traded players soon as they didn’t want to be there…traded aging players before they declined etc… and targeted younger players, prospects and draft picks, only adding a vet player when they needed to, say for when they figured a playoff run was possible.

 

as such a that’s the asking price for Tachuck…but they need to target Canadian and Sweed players who seem

to want to play in a Canada.

 

Also, they need to Move Backlund and any other player either not wanting to sign long term aka if Manji doesn’t…sucks but might as well cash in on his crazy high value if he doesn’t commit long term. 
 

other guys I’d trade would obviously be Monahan (not for the same

reasons as most, I actually think he’s gonna bounce back as long as he’s fully healed and has no more hidden injuries) but he’s getting close to 30 now and the team needs to go much younger…same with Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman,

Lucic and Toffoil….and do it this year, it’s a great draft to make a full scale

over haul, l’m sure a number of those guys will fetch you a few more 1st rounders, and a few decent young roster players or top prospect…especially if your able to take

back a bad contract or Two…but nothing that goes past 2 years, thats where trouble happens. 

[phoenix66]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Everyone's throwing Kyrou's name out there like Army has a desire to trade him.

I highly doubt he does.

He's running a hockey team. Not hung up on one player's "ties".

I'd count Detroit out too.

He's pretty toxic. Mgrs talk.

We need to maximize his value now.

This can't linger into the season. His value could depreciate.

That's the mark of a good trade tho, you give up somebidy you wouldn't normally want to trade. Like when we were sniffing on Eichel last year .some pretty uncomfortable names were being attached to that from us.

I like the Kyrou idea tho.  We need a passer on that top line ..somebidy who can hit Lindholm in his happy place .  Mangiapane is more of a finisher more suited to the Tkachuk role .. 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thinking a little more about this and I feel the saddest part about the whole "Rangers retool" comment is that the Rangers have won nothing.

 

My goodness.  We going to do what the Rangers did because why?  Because Cups?  Because bounced back to mediocrity quickly?  What a sad goal to aim for a Rangers retool.. why would you emulate something that did not win a Cup?

 

Instead, there are a few Cup winners here... Avs.  TBay.  No?  Don't follow what they did?  Follow the Rangers?  Why try what the Rangers did when there are two very recent success stories to follow?

 

NY is hooped.  They have huge issues next year.  

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thinking a little more about this and I feel the saddest part about the whole "Rangers retool" comment is that the Rangers have won nothing.

 

My goodness.  We going to do what the Rangers did because why?  Because Cups?  Because bounced back to mediocrity quickly?  What a sad goal to aim for a Rangers retool.. why would you emulate something that did not win a Cup?

 

Instead, there are a few Cup winners here... Avs.  TBay.  No?  Don't follow what they did?  Follow the Rangers?  Why try what the Rangers did when there are two very recent success stories to follow?

 

Likewise, Columbus will never win a cup or have much playoff success with Gaudreau.   I almost feel like he went there because the playoffs were too hard for him (especially with Sutter).

 

Whoever acquires Tkachuk, no cups for them either.

 

Neither of these guys really showed up for us in the playoffs which is the #1 reason they should have been traded years ago.   It's also a tell that they're likely to renegade if you put faith in them.  Teams like New York can acquire individuals.     But acquiring team players, is just as hard for them if not harder than others.     Will be a long time before they get another Messier if ever.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Yes and one of them…the Avs have turned their team around in short order on a few occasions and have been a fairly competitive team the whole time say for the year before they drafted McKinon.

 

the key to an Avs style rebuild/tool is that they traded players soon as they didn’t want to be there…traded aging players before they declined etc… and targeted younger players, prospects and draft picks, only adding a vet player when they needed to, say for when they figured a playoff run was possible.

 

While we viewed the AVS as the likely cup winner, the Blues were knocked out in 6 after losing their #1 goalie in game 3.  The AVS are a success story, but the Blues have been a contender for years.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Likewise, Columbus will never win a cup or have much playoff success with Gaudreau.   I almost feel like he went there because the playoffs were too hard for him (especially with Sutter).

 

Whoever acquires Tkachuk, no cups for them either.

 

Neither of these guys really showed up for us in the playoffs which is the #1 reason they should have been traded years ago.   It's also a tell that they're likely to renegade if you put faith in them.  Teams like New York can acquire individuals.     But acquiring team players, is just as hard for them if not harder than others.     Will be a long time before they get another Messier if ever.

 

Kadri was always seen as a playoff liability until he wasn't.

Neal is an example of a player that hangs like a noose around potential cup winners.

Goes to NAS, loses final.

Goes to VGK, loses final.

Goes to CGY, loses first round.

Goes to EDM, loses playin round.

 

If Tkachuk is the top player on a team, then that team better score by committee.

If he goes to a stacked team, probably gets to hoist a cup.

He wants money and play south of the 49th.

Probably doesn't care if it's the Yotes.

I don't even think he cares about the cup.

But, he likes to engage, so fighting and breaking a hand is part of the game to him.

Sure messed up his playoffs.

Has he ever been healthy in the post season?

 

Gaudreau went to a team not expected to compete.

With him and Laine, they will score a lot of goals though.

Need at least another Panarin level player or top C.

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Kadri was always seen as a playoff liability until he wasn't.

Neal is an example of a player that hangs like a noose around potential cup winners.

Goes to NAS, loses final.

Goes to VGK, loses final.

Goes to CGY, loses first round.

Goes to EDM, loses playin round.

 

If Tkachuk is the top player on a team, then that team better score by committee.

If he goes to a stacked team, probably gets to hoist a cup.

He wants money and play south of the 49th.

Probably doesn't care if it's the Yotes.

I don't even think he cares about the cup.

But, he likes to engage, so fighting and breaking a hand is part of the game to him.

Sure messed up his playoffs.

Has he ever been healthy in the post season?

 

Gaudreau went to a team not expected to compete.

With him and Laine, they will score a lot of goals though.

Need at least another Panarin level player or top C.

 

His time in Toronto, yes.   But it's hard to evaluate in Toronto.

 

In junior, he finished up his last year with 27 playoff points in 12 ;playoff games lol.   Can't have been that much of a liability.

 

Gaudreau.....his size will always be the issue.    It gets in your head after a while too.

[phoenix66]

Anybody else find it a little suspicious that Keith Tkachuk is St Louis director of player recruitment??  No meddling there ..

Just like Brent Sutter suddenly quitting new jersey and reappearing as flames coach back in the day.  

 

The 2 supposed front runners  STL and NJ both have family connections 

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Everyone's throwing Kyrou's name out there like Army has a desire to trade him.

I highly doubt he does.

He's running a hockey team. Not hung up on one player's "ties".

I'd count Detroit out too.

He's pretty toxic. Mgrs talk.

We need to maximize his value now.

This can't linger into the season. His value could depreciate.

 

Tkachuk has player that hate to play against him.  STL would just as soon have him play in NY as in STL.  I don't know if he's seen as toxic.  GM's also look at a player from a line that was the best goal differential in the league.  Johnny wasn't the reason they were not getting scored on.  I would give the nod to the two other players.  And Johnny was known for overpassing in the O-zone or too often too much east west play.  We loved and hated it.

 

Long storty short, Tkachuk is a nasty player.  He's not the guy you build around, but a guy that makes other teams forget about the weapons out there.  He's not fast, just causes mistakes.  Drew a lot less penalties than norrmal last year, possibly because the refs were catching on or because he was too noticeable.  I think he fits STL very well.  They lost Perron.  Mr. Sandpaper.  They can pivot towards being a Mr. Dressup team like the Oilers, or getting back to what made them great.  They had to work on Tarasenko to stop just being a skill guy and start hitting.

 

I don't know what's a fair trade with STL, but if it's not there, it's their loss.  

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

His time in Toronto, yes.   But it's hard to evaluate in Toronto.

 

In junior, he finished up his last year with 27 playoff points in 12 ;playoff games lol.   Can't have been that much of a liability.

 

Gaudreau.....his size will always be the issue.    It gets in your head after a while too.

 

I seem to recall the same situation in Colorado.

8 game suspension in 20/21 playoffs in the first round.

[JTech780]

I will admit, I haven’t seen much of Bratt so I can’t speak to his ability or style, but this does bode well.

[jjgallow]

The dome is fine, I have no idea why people get so worked up about it.

 

I cannot imagine there is an actual real NHL hockey player who is like "I only want to play in large event centers" but if such a player exists with that much arrogance and pickiness we definitely don't want or need them here.

 

The whole event center thing is pedalled by the same group that keeps giving us mediocre hockey and short-term moves---- Flames ownership.     They want this city to invest in their franchise but they don't even invest in their franchise.

 

The dome is fine.