LouCifer Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: I still like NJ as a trade partner. Here's what I would ask for 2023 1st If NJ wants lottery protection then it's going to cost them Mukhammadulin. One of L. Hughes, Holtz or Nemec. Safe to say it would be Holtz NJ may need to move some money. I'd be fine with Tatar. 1yr at 4.5. He can be moved at the TDL, further increasing the return for Tkachuk. I'd also get greedy and ask for Severson. They've got Dougie/Marino/Nemec. The prices for D are insane at the TDL, you can get a 1st and 2nd for a rental D, or a prospect. In a year the deal could very well look like 2023 1st 2023 1st and 2nd (Severson TDL) 2023 2nd (Tatar half retained TDL) Holtz Mukhammadulin I know I'm doing lot's of projecting here, but to turn Tkachuk into two of NJ's top 5 prospects and 4 top 60 picks would be pretty nice. Hey TBC, I must say I like this proposal. Fitzgerald did comment on not acquiring Johnny, and I think there would be a lot of interest on his part to acquire Chucky. The plan to flip Tatar and Severson for additional picks is on par with something I was looking to do in a Chucky trade. We’d also have Looch and Monahan to deal at the TDL, and we could weaponize our cap space for those teams who are looking for retained salary, or moving an expiring contract for the purpose of making another trade. I also like your Barzal proposal, specifically because he’s a C. But, the NJ package is superior and maybe we just try to get Barzal when he becomes an RFA. And to your point, he did like Calgary originally, then liked CHI because of Kane and Toews Who was your favourite NHL team growing up? Barzal: I was a big Chicago Blackhawks fan. I actually started out as a Calgary Flames fan when I was really young. I was big into Jarome Iginla. Once Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews came into the league, I just like watching the way they play and their style so I grew towards the Blackhawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 K..this was seriously funny..lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 CLB: Tkachuk CGY: Vorachek, Laine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 These proposals were just posted on Pucks and Pitchforks. They give their thinking and reasoning behind each one on the site. Draft Picks On Draft Picks DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET YEGOR SHARANGOVICH 2023 1ST AND 2ND-ROUND PICK 2024 1ST-ROUND PICK ALEX HOLTZ Saying Goodbye To Dawson Mercer DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET DAWSON MERCER 2023 1ST-ROUND PICK ARSENI GRITSYUK JESPER BOQVIST The Bratt Trade DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET JESPER BRATT 2023 1ST-ROUND PICK CHASE STILLMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 Send him to ARZ to play with old mutton chops Kassain, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, LouCifer said: These proposals were just posted on Pucks and Pitchforks: Draft Picks On Draft Picks DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET YEGOR SHARANGOVICH 2023 1ST AND 2ND-ROUND PICK 2024 1ST-ROUND PICK ALEX HOLTZ Saying Goodbye To Dawson Mercer DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET DAWSON MERCER 2023 1ST-ROUND PICK ARSENI GRITSYUK JESPER BOQVIST The Bratt Trade DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET JESPER BRATT 2023 1ST-ROUND PICK CHASE STILLMAN I would take the 1st one without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 I wonder how much of the Hockey Canada investigation will throw a wrench in trade discussions. There are a few prominent names who have yet to publicly deny having anything to do with those events including Dillon Dube. A couple of names from Ottawa are Drake Batherson and Alex Formenton. So if there are trade talks with Ottawa you better have a good idea where those players were before taking them in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, JTech780 said: I wonder how much of the Hockey Canada investigation will throw a wrench in trade discussions. There are a few prominent names who have yet to publicly deny having anything to do with those events including Dillon Dube. A couple of names from Ottawa are Drake Batherson and Alex Formenton. So if there are trade talks with Ottawa you better have a good idea where those players were before taking them in a trade. Was just seeing another link. Dube was actually one of the first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 38 minutes ago, LouCifer said: These proposals were just posted on Pucks and Pitchforks. They give their thinking and reasoning behind each one on the site. Draft Picks On Draft Picks DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET YEGOR SHARANGOVICH 2023 1ST AND 2ND-ROUND PICK 2024 1ST-ROUND PICK ALEX HOLTZ Saying Goodbye To Dawson Mercer DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET DAWSON MERCER 2023 1ST-ROUND PICK ARSENI GRITSYUK JESPER BOQVIST The Bratt Trade DEVILS GET MATTHEW TKACHUK FLAMES GET JESPER BRATT 2023 1ST-ROUND PICK CHASE STILLMAN 30 minutes ago, JTech780 said: I would take the 1st one without hesitation. Yes the first for sure. Mercer is too good to pass up but getting Holtz and two 1st picks is a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 Barzal is a great player but I feel it's the wrong direction to go. He's a year older than Tkachuk and yet, we want to rebuild so need to go younger than Tkachuk. Take Holtz if NJ is willing to move Holtz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 So, here's an off the wall thought. Tkachuk may have been holding off waiting to see how BT as going to handle Johnny Walkie. So far nothing to address it. Is that the sticking point? So, my solution is we trade for Barzal and sign Tkachuk. Mangiapane and Kylington goes to NYI. Barzal gets a bit less than we offered Gaudreau (8.5 - 9.0) Tkachuk signs long term for 9.0 Not as fun as looking at potential returns for Matty. But a lot more fun that watching a horrible trade happen and we are set back years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, travel_dude said: So, here's an off the wall thought. Tkachuk may have been holding off waiting to see how BT as going to handle Johnny Walkie. So far nothing to address it. Is that the sticking point? So, my solution is we trade for Barzal and sign Tkachuk. Mangiapane and Kylington goes to NYI. Barzal gets a bit less than we offered Gaudreau (8.5 - 9.0) Tkachuk signs long term for 9.0 Not as fun as looking at potential returns for Matty. But a lot more fun that watching a horrible trade happen and we are set back years. I like it, but I doubt Mangiapane and Kylington gets you Barzal, even with Pelletier added I am not sure that is a good enough package. Also Barzal’s QO next year is $10m so I doubt he is signing for anything less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 11 hours ago, sak22 said: 1) It doesn't mesh with how they are operating, I don't see them pivoting from wanting a big haul in futures for Chychrun to making a deal in which they would need to offer more and take on risk. I don't think he is the type of player you target to just flip at the deadline, his production on that team can possibly take a steep drop or he could get injured. 2) Even if true I don't think the guy will be okay with tanking 2 years just for that opportunity, I seriously doubt Tkachuk would consider ARI. But re Chychrun's injury history, I'd be willing to bet it's due to usage. Even as a #1 dman I think his usage is huge overkill. Do they even have other dmen?lol Add in that Keller is their only highly skilled forward and it's not, imho, at all surprising that injuries are an issue. Wanna beat ARI? Target Chychrun and Keller. You win. I feel really sorry for those 2. Swap them for Hedman and Kucherov and I'm guessing you still have the exact same problem. I think both ARI players are cornerstones surrounded by absolutely nothing. It's sad. I can only imagine what those 2 could do on an actual NHL team. You had mentioned that you're not a huge Kyrou fan. He's an ex-Sting player and I normally promote them. I agree with you, I'm not a big fan at all. Just using him as an example. Because Keller is a far better player. He would easily match Kyrou's numbers if they switched spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 I wonder what Sutter must be thinking. He’s soon to be 64. It’s very likely that 2/3 of his top line will be gone. Last season went so well, I don’t imagine he has the time to coach a floundering team. That’s to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if he stepped away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 hours ago, conundrumed said: I seriously doubt Tkachuk would consider ARI. But re Chychrun's injury history, I'd be willing to bet it's due to usage. Even as a #1 dman I think his usage is huge overkill. Do they even have other dmen?lol Add in that Keller is their only highly skilled forward and it's not, imho, at all surprising that injuries are an issue. Wanna beat ARI? Target Chychrun and Keller. You win. I feel really sorry for those 2. Swap them for Hedman and Kucherov and I'm guessing you still have the exact same problem. I think both ARI players are cornerstones surrounded by absolutely nothing. It's sad. I can only imagine what those 2 could do on an actual NHL team. You had mentioned that you're not a huge Kyrou fan. He's an ex-Sting player and I normally promote them. I agree with you, I'm not a big fan at all. Just using him as an example. Because Keller is a far better player. He would easily match Kyrou's numbers if they switched spots. On a serious note .. don't rule out Arizona as a place he'd play.. he's a legacy there too .and I seriously do believe Matthews will be there in 2 years as well . Ya they gotta play in a dump for 2 years .. but there's a reason the league keeps that team anchored there On a side note ..people floating the arena as a reason any player would want out of here .. Let's be serious .so long as the ice is good , facilities are good and the fans fill it ..what do they care if theres more suites, better concerts or all the reasons fans and management need one .. their area is just as good as any other arena in the league.. it's not like theyre playing in a run down old Nassau .. or out in the middle of nowhere like Arizona etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: I wonder what Sutter must be thinking. He’s soon to be 64. It’s very likely that 2/3 of his top line will be gone. Last season went so well, I don’t imagine he has the time to coach a floundering team. That’s to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if he stepped away I was thinking about that .tbh, when the dust settles he might just have a better team to his liking.. there was too much talk of personal goals and individual Achievements last year ..you could tell it bugged him.. give him a team of Colemans and he'll take it to the final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: I wonder what Sutter must be thinking. He’s soon to be 64. It’s very likely that 2/3 of his top line will be gone. Last season went so well, I don’t imagine he has the time to coach a floundering team. That’s to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if he stepped away 64 is young for a guy like him. I don't think he is capable of stepping away. He tried it once and couldn't. When he came back here he said he did it to win a cup. My immediate thought was...great. But you'll need to stay for 5-7 years. Will he? I think maybe yes. Sutter would actually be a fantastic rebuild coach. Exactly who you want to shape new players. But he has to be up for that task. IMHO, he will rise to the challenge. And IMHO, he already made his decision when he called out Gaudreau and Tkachuk at various points. If he takes on the role of rebuild coach it really will be his team and I don't think he can resist that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 39 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: I wonder what Sutter must be thinking. He’s soon to be 64. It’s very likely that 2/3 of his top line will be gone. Last season went so well, I don’t imagine he has the time to coach a floundering team. That’s to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if he stepped away I think he just brushes it off. I think he kind had his suspesions this may happen at year meetings. He alluded to we will see come training camp who we have left after Brad does he work. I can just hear him now" good players, they moved just going focus on the players we have hear in order to win" If Tkatch gets traded than I think they could come out of this with a pretty good return, it still hurts but at least we can move on. If the rumours are true and Chucky has indicated he wants out and provided a list good on him, thats a class act and in his best interest as well. As much as it sucks having him leave in retrospect maybe we have what Sutter wants a blue collar team gets it done by committee. I am not sure what the return would be, but for those who are huge Trevling fans maybe he can take what we get with prospect and picks and make moves that may surprize us, our at least that the optimist side of me hoping he does lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, jjgallow said: 64 is young for a guy like him. I don't think he is capable of stepping away. He tried it once and couldn't. When he came back here he said he did it to win a cup. My immediate thought was...great. But you'll need to stay for 5-7 years. Will he? I think maybe yes. Sutter would actually be a fantastic rebuild coach. Exactly who you want to shape new players. But he has to be up for that task. IMHO, he will rise to the challenge. And IMHO, he already made his decision when he called out Gaudreau and Tkachuk at various points. If he takes on the role of rebuild coach it really will be his team and I don't think he can resist that. I think his decision depends on what we are doing this year. He came to a team that struggled with consistency and had a lax attitude to competing. The team let those guys go. I think he was as fed up with JH as he was impressed. The team stuff that he did impressed. The one man stuff not so much. But it's hard to get a read on him. He was proud of the team. We decide to go into a rebuild, and I doubt he comes back. Too frustrating. You instill the ethic, but have to work on the new guys to get them to buy in. He only loved coaching the team when they were 100% bought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 9 hours ago, JTech780 said: I like it, but I doubt Mangiapane and Kylington gets you Barzal, even with Pelletier added I am not sure that is a good enough package. Also Barzal’s QO next year is $10m so I doubt he is signing for anything less than that. Barzal is not getting a deal from NY close to that. He's more of a playmaker than goal scorer. He has never managed more than 22 goals and that was also his best assist season at 63 assists. They offered a UFA with far better stats less than $9.5M, if at all. Back to the deal. Sounds like they get the short end, but a guy able to score 35 goal on a defensive system? Kylington gives them a solid LD that bumps down Aho. I would consider Zary, but let's not devalue Mangiapane that much. Just a trade thought. Gives them someone to replace Johnnie with on a top line. A playmaker we don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I think his decision depends on what we are doing this year. He came to a team that struggled with consistency and had a lax attitude to competing. The team let those guys go. I think he was as fed up with JH as he was impressed. The team stuff that he did impressed. The one man stuff not so much. But it's hard to get a read on him. He was proud of the team. We decide to go into a rebuild, and I doubt he comes back. Too frustrating. You instill the ethic, but have to work on the new guys to get them to buy in. He only loved coaching the team when they were 100% bought in. The one flaw I see with Coach Sutter is his love of veterans, with no patients with youngetr players. Its ironic in that he wants a certain player but doesn't seem to want to take the time to develop said player. When you sift through the interviews he does say our players came up to soon. With Rosie and Valimaki they both say play me more and I will improve, Sutter says improve and I will play you more. If Sutter can't trust you to be in the right spot positionally your not getting a chance, he will put in a plug instead. Sad fact is we are in a different generation, they all want to be at the top of the mountain but don't want to do the climb, just take the gondola. I do think hew would be a fantastic coach for younger guys, but I am with you not sure he wants the headache. Sutter its about winning and winning now, he isn't here for a 5-7 year rebuild or personal accomplishments. However, if one could invoke his competitve side and say give me 5 years and show us how to build a contender, he might take the challenge lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: On a side note ..people floating the arena as a reason any player would want out of here .. Let's be serious .so long as the ice is good , facilities are good and the fans fill it ..what do they care if theres more suites, better concerts or all the reasons fans and management need one .. their area is just as good as any other arena in the league.. it's not like theyre playing in a run down old Nassau .. or out in the middle of nowhere like Arizona etc New arenas have better amenities for the players, locker rooms, showers, training facilities, parking, etc. It might not be the biggest factor but it is a factor especially for a small market team, and going from having a plan to not is not good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: On a side note ..people floating the arena as a reason any player would want out of here .. Let's be serious .so long as the ice is good , facilities are good and the fans fill it ..what do they care if theres more suites, better concerts or all the reasons fans and management need one .. their area is just as good as any other arena in the league.. it's not like theyre playing in a run down old Nassau .. or out in the middle of nowhere like Arizona etc Well the Dome ice isnt' that great so that's a problem first off. But a new arena is more than just the fan experience. There is the locker room, parking, player facilities/lounge, weight and training room etc all of which are not very good at the dome. I don't know if you've been in the Flames dressing room, but it is tiny and really tiny when you look at the more modern buildings. There is also basically nowhere nice that the players can just hang out in either (like a lounge area that again most modern buildings have). They've tried their best to keep the weight room up to par but there is only so much they can do there too. Not to mention, no practice ice facility or team facility either like some teams do. I can't imagine this is on the top 1 or 2 things a player needs but I absolutely think it matters when you are trying to figure out where you want to spend the bulk of your career. It also doesn't help, as Sak mentions, that 2 deals to get a new one have fallen apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, tmac70 said: The one flaw I see with Coach Sutter is his love of veterans, with no patients with youngetr players. Its ironic in that he wants a certain player but doesn't seem to want to take the time to develop said player. When you sift through the interviews he does say our players came up to soon. With Rosie and Valimaki they both say play me more and I will improve, Sutter says improve and I will play you more. If Sutter can't trust you to be in the right spot positionally your not getting a chance, he will put in a plug instead. Sad fact is we are in a different generation, they all want to be at the top of the mountain but don't want to do the climb, just take the gondola. I do think hew would be a fantastic coach for younger guys, but I am with you not sure he wants the headache. Sutter its about winning and winning now, he isn't here for a 5-7 year rebuild or personal accomplishments. However, if one could invoke his competitve side and say give me 5 years and show us how to build a contender, he might take the challenge lol I would say he is more concerned with not developing players at the NHL level. Rozie got sat when he wasn't consistent. Fair statement, but I thought he was still better than Lucic or Ritchie. Then again, they were role players and Sutter wanted Rozie to be a top 9 C. When he was finally sent to the AHL, it was a roster issue not the player. We brought in Carpenter and Jarnkrok and had no cap or roster spots available. Rozie was projected to be in that first game after TDL. Valimaki is an example of a player that was frozen. He didn't want to make mistakes, but his inaction led to them. He wasn't using his frame. He had been passed by Kylington's great camp and consistent play in the first quarter. I agree that he doesn't have the time to be an AHL coach in the NHL. Give him Bedard and he would say, great, another small player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 Does the Eichel trade set the baseline for a Tkachuk trade? I think we would be looking at slightly less than what Buffalo got, just because of Eichel’s pedigree (former 2nd overall), his position (C), and the fact that he had a contract in place. Buffalo got a top 10 protected 1st, and 2nd, plus a top prospect (Peyton Krebs), a youngish top 6 winger (Alex Tuch). Now Tkachuk has a bit more control here because he can decide where he signs and for how long, so that determine a lot of the return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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