2022 Offseason

[sak22]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd say don't. Get Giroux as a JG replacement. Sutter will be all like, a bunch of no name guys, and all of us will go wtf?

Then we'll exceed expectations again.

I don't know if Giroux has any interest in Canada or the west coast.  I'm in the boat of trying to find a value addition, I wonder if Max Domi would be a good fit and come in at a decent price, I would probably look into bringing Gudbranson back as I don't really like any of the other RHS bottom pairing guys. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

But at least there probably wasn't any tampering.🤐

 

First minute of UFA... Gaudreau signs in PHI with all the I's dotted and T's crossed.  Every detail finalized.  Nope.  Never talked to Gaudreau before UFA officially began.

 

I suggested the Flames let Gaudreau talk to PHI, NJ, NYI, etc prior to the draft so we can know his answer to let us pivot to trading Tkachuk for Shane Wright... and now we are here.

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

First minute of UFA... Gaudreau signs in PHI with all the I's dotted and T's crossed.  Every detail finalized.  Nope.  Never talked to Gaudreau before UFA officially began.

 

I suggested the Flames let Gaudreau talk to PHI, NJ, NYI, etc prior to the draft so we can know his answer to let us pivot to trading Tkachuk for Shane Wright... and now we are here.

I don't get the reason why it unfolded the way it did.  It wasn't like OMG, such a difficult decision.  You don't decide in the 11th hour.  I could see if it was i'm only staying if it's this much.  But getting that offer and then deciding?  No way.  What if the best offer is in Seattle and it's only $9.5M.  Unless of course he already knew the offers.  

 

Yeah, I'm turning down $11M because TSN has me a #1 on trade bait. 

 

Anyway, moving on.  NJ can have both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, and all we want is Hischier.  Fair trade.  They get a top line duo to play with Hughes.  Or we replace JH with one of the many guys not qualified.  If we can get really good offers for Tkachuk, we do it.  Moved on from two that have had less than stellar playoffs.  Or we trade him to Ottawa for Stutzle.  Nothing less.  

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I don't get the reason why it unfolded the way it did.  It wasn't like OMG, such a difficult decision.  You don't decide in the 11th hour.  I could see if it was i'm only staying if it's this much.  But getting that offer and then deciding?  No way.  What if the best offer is in Seattle and it's only $9.5M.  Unless of course he already knew the offers.  

 

Yeah, I'm turning down $11M because TSN has me a #1 on trade bait. 

 

Anyway, moving on.  NJ can have both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, and all we want is Hischier.  Fair trade.  They get a top line duo to play with Hughes.  Or we replace JH with one of the many guys not qualified.  If we can get really good offers for Tkachuk, we do it.  Moved on from two that have had less than stellar playoffs.  Or we trade him to Ottawa for Stutzle.  Nothing less.  

Gaudreau is not the end of the world…Tachuck is still very young..why move him?

 

he’s got captain potential in his blood, build around him.

 

we still have Manji who is solid and definitely capable of 1st line 

 

Pelletier could slot in on 2nd or

3rd line LW…to

which I think we could land one of the very capable FA LW’s out there and save some

cap $$$$ maybe we could also upgrade at Ctr or D with this.

 

hope they keep big Z on the D, and as much as Gub’s was great, id

love to see a younger D replace him.

 

the only real thing BT needs to do is learn to plan better, first lock up Manji, Tachuck and Killington as they are definitely young and still improving…

 

then maybe target some of the younger UFA’s to help fill out lines 1-4 and the bottom D pair.

 

then start looking to trade guys on 30+ and even guys closing in on 30 like 28/29 ish for younger players.

 

team stays competitive and younger longer.

[LouCifer]

Nah. For me this doesn’t reek of revenge or “not knowing” on Johnny’s part. If I had a guess, Johnny was trying to convince the wife about Calgary until the final day, and she held steadfast to wanting to raise their child close to family in the US. 
 

Anyway, I’m with @The_People1 and @travel_dude 

BT has to figure out Chucky’s intentions and not gamble. If he wants a $9-$10m AAV to stay in Calgary, that’s an indication it’s time to move on. It’s also time to reconsider acquiring US born players - Coleman is the exception, not the rule. 

[Thebrewcrew]

I don't know that the Flames should avoid American players.

 

Gaudreau gave the Flames 8 seasons. He didn't have to sign with Calgary. He could have played one more season of College and then became a free agent. He didn't.

 

Lots of folks are jaded by Adam Fox, which is an anomaly. 

 

The reality is that so few players play their whole career with one organization. We all thought Gio and Iginla would be career Flames, they weren't. Players move on

[rickross]

10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't know that the Flames should avoid American players.

 

Gaudreau gave the Flames 8 seasons. He didn't have to sign with Calgary. He could have played one more season of College and then became a free agent. He didn't.

 

Lots of folks are jaded by Adam Fox, which is an anomaly. 

 

The reality is that so few players play their whole career with one organization. We all thought Gio and Iginla would be career Flames, they weren't. Players move on

Exactly. In this case the player has moved on and so should we! This is not the time for “woe is me”, it’s a critical time for the franchise and it’s a great opportunity to move things in a better direction. 

[tmac70]

Here is what Fing  sets me off about this whole thing: 

 

1) If an offer was present and than you turn down a larger offer in the 11th hour, there was never an intent to stay, dick move. 

2) It appears the agent was even caught off guard, another dick move. 

3) Trevling has a bad record of losing players by not moving them first, playing the nice guy is not the right approach.  He has done some good but has a very poor record  bold moves to prevent losing players for nothing and a really poor FA record. 

4) If Matthew doesn't sign a contract extenstion before the season, than he is moved instantly.

5) Lastly and the most concerning is IF and this is speculation there is no back up plan in placebased off thids possiblity, Trevling should be relieved of his duties.  Any GM MIUST have a plan in place based on the remote chance this occurs, there has to be to foresight in the organization to be ready to engage the FA market to complete your roster. Currently Tre in my humble opinion should be removed at this point, he has gambled to many times in good faith only to have the organization pay the price. 

 

The decision by JG right now has put this organization in a position of weakness with this late of a decision. Thats what pisses me off the most. 

 

For the burn it to the ground group, move on. This is one guy yes it stings a lot but the owners never have a give up attitude. Plus there is no way we could get to the point of where CHI or ARZ are. 

[MP5029]

13 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Here is what Fing  sets me off about this whole thing: 

 

1) If an offer was present and than you turn down a larger offer in the 11th hour, there was never an intent to stay, dick move. 

2) It appears the agent was even caught off guard, another dick move. 

3) Trevling has a bad record of losing players by not moving them first, playing the nice guy is not the right approach.  He has done some good but has a very poor record  bold moves to prevent losing players for nothing and a really poor FA record. 

4) If Matthew doesn't sign a contract extenstion before the season, than he is moved instantly.

5) Lastly and the most concerning is IF and this is speculation there is no back up plan in placebased off thids possiblity, Trevling should be relieved of his duties.  Any GM MIUST have a plan in place based on the remote chance this occurs, there has to be to foresight in the organization to be ready to engage the FA market to complete your roster. Currently Tre in my humble opinion should be removed at this point, he has gambled to many times in good faith only to have the organization pay the price. 

 

The decision by JG right now has put this organization in a position of weakness with this late of a decision. Thats what pisses me off the most. 

 

For the burn it to the ground group, move on. This is one guy yes it stings a lot but the owners never have a give up attitude. Plus there is no way we could get to the point of where CHI or ARZ are. 

100% spot on 100% agree fully with all of this!

well put Tmac! 

 

[phoenix66]

26 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Here is what Fing  sets me off about this whole thing: 

 

1) If an offer was present and than you turn down a larger offer in the 11th hour, there was never an intent to stay, dick move. 

2) It appears the agent was even caught off guard, another dick move. 

3) Trevling has a bad record of losing players by not moving them first, playing the nice guy is not the right approach.  He has done some good but has a very poor record  bold moves to prevent losing players for nothing and a really poor FA record. 

4) If Matthew doesn't sign a contract extenstion before the season, than he is moved instantly.

5) Lastly and the most concerning is IF and this is speculation there is no back up plan in placebased off thids possiblity, Trevling should be relieved of his duties.  Any GM MIUST have a plan in place based on the remote chance this occurs, there has to be to foresight in the organization to be ready to engage the FA market to complete your roster. Currently Tre in my humble opinion should be removed at this point, he has gambled to many times in good faith only to have the organization pay the price. 

 

The decision by JG right now has put this organization in a position of weakness with this late of a decision. Thats what pisses me off the most. 

 

For the burn it to the ground group, move on. This is one guy yes it stings a lot but the owners never have a give up attitude. Plus there is no way we could get to the point of where CHI or ARZ are. 

Good points, but I gotta disagree with #3.. this is not on BT..  remember Johnny had a limited NTC..there's was only 4 teams he could be traded to ..but on top of that, they made a decision to go all in this year.. and it was a great year.. 

Gio was a expansion draft casualty.. tbh there was no other player I'd have exposed . Love Gio but he wasn't worth giving up a 1st and prospect to keep., And still would have lost someone else of quality "for nothing" 

 

We all shake out heads at the lack of loyalty in a team like Vegas..there's something to be said for treating your star with respect. Show him the love of the city and the team . That gets noticed by players ..not just your own , but others you may want to be here 

 

 

 

Many..including myself ..said from day one , he's going home first Chance he gets .. heck he nearly went back to uni for his 4th year..  but he made us all believe this is where h could see himself..even made Eric Francis change his opinion.  Not saying he planned it..I'm sure he considered it .. but at the end of the day he made the choice..  BT went to the wall to keep him but he chose the one thing he couldn't offer him .. it sucks but it wasn't mismanagement 

 

I agree we don't let Matthew get to next year as Ufa .. 

[JTech780]

I would trade Tkachuk to NJ for a package around Luke Hughes.

 

Send Lindholm to Colorado for Byram.

 

Take JVR, and get a couple of picks and or prospects with him.

 

I would look to move Hanifin and Andersson too.

 

We have lots of pieces to get a good jump start on a proper rebuild.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I would trade Tkachuk to NJ for a package around Luke Hughes.

 

Send Lindholm to Colorado for Byram.

 

Take JVR, and get a couple of picks and or prospects with him.

 

I would look to move Hanifin and Andersson too.

 

We have lots of pieces to get a good jump start on a proper rebuild.

No.. just No..   blowing things up never works.  Yes if you can't extend Matt then yes you have to check the market.. 

But yes , losing Johnny sucks but we still have the core of a great team.. fix the problems we already had..the 2nd line .. there will already be spots for the kids this year , plug them in 

We go forward .. push for playoffs and let the chips fall.. 

 

[tmac70]

11 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Good points, but I gotta disagree with #3.. this is not on BT..  remember Johnny had a limited NTC..there's was only 4 teams he could be traded to ..but on top of that, they made a decision to go all in this year.. and it was a great year.. 

Gio was a expansion draft casualty.. tbh there was no other player I'd have exposed . Love Gio but he wasn't worth giving up a 1st and prospect to keep., And still would have lost someone else of quality "for nothing" 

 

We all shake out heads at the lack of loyalty in a team like Vegas..there's something to be said for treating your star with respect. Show him the love of the city and the team . That gets noticed by players ..not just your own , but others you may want to be here 

 

 

 

Many..including myself ..said from day one , he's going home first Chance he gets .. heck he nearly went back to uni for his 4th year..  but he made us all believe this is where h could see himself..even made Eric Francis change his opinion.  Not saying he planned it..I'm sure he considered it .. but at the end of the day he made the choice..  BT went to the wall to keep him but he chose the one thing he couldn't offer him .. it sucks but it wasn't mismanagement 

 

I agree we don't let Matthew get to next year as Ufa .. 

There is no doudt but respect does work both ways. So when any players camp asks for some common consideration, such as not wanting to discuss during the season, you can accomdate, the caveat is I need an answer X days after the season ends. There should have been a deadline well before the draft to avoid this crap. Trevlings first and most important role is to do what is in the organizations best interest. I don't disagree with what you have said, and we can all sit here and speculate. I think we all wanted JG back, but Tre allowing this much time is not acceptable. Being respectful to the players is fine, however the player must also understand that the organization deserves the same common curtious back. JG testing FA is fine he has that right, allowing him this much time is 100% on Tre.  The answer should have been requested well before the draft. Non response before the deadline would be considered he was moving into FA market, the organization would move forward from there, respect provided from both sides. Tre is responsible for allowing this to fester this long and JG was allowed to much time to provide an answer. Respect can be provided and defined that provides clarity and common curtious to both sides. 

 

Now if MT negotiation should be done by the end of next week. If its money than start the process, allowing an open end deadline is sucide IMHO. Set the timeline and a non answer is an agreement your not returning, simply as that. Allowing the players to control the desitny of the club is 100% the wrong approach. 

[phoenix66]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

There is no doudt but respect does work both ways. So when any players camp asks for some common consideration, such as not wanting to discuss during the season, you can accomdate, the caveat is I need an answer X days after the season ends. There should have been a deadline well before the draft to avoid this crap. Trevlings first and most important role is to do what is in the organizations best interest. I don't disagree with what you have said, and we can all sit here and speculate. I think we all wanted JG back, but Tre allowing this much time is not acceptable. Being respectful to the players is fine, however the player must also understand that the organization deserves the same common curtious back. JG testing FA is fine he has that right, allowing him this much time is 100% on Tre.  The answer should have been requested well before the draft. Non response before the deadline would be considered he was moving into FA market, the organization would move forward from there, respect provided from both sides. Tre is responsible for allowing this to fester this long and JG was allowed to much time to provide an answer. Respect can be provided and defined that provides clarity and common curtious to both sides. 

 

Now if MT negotiation should be done by the end of next week. If its money than start the process, allowing an open end deadline is sucide IMHO. Set the timeline and a non answer is an agreement your not returning, simply as that. Allowing the players to control the desitny of the club is 100% the wrong approach. 

I am with you on the deadline ..i would have said the draft as well.. at least a "give us a number that he signs right now " .. but we also don't know the inside ..maybe pressure would have just gotten the same answer sooner ..but ya , a deadline for at least engaging wouid have been appropriate

Even with Matthew ..discussions start..but if he signs the QO or training camp opens without a deal. Then that should be the cutoff point 

 

I will say this .. he said all the right things, but the presser with BT he didn't look sad he looked PO'd .. he could have totally thrown Johnny and family and agent under the bus but didn't  that says a lot too 

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Here is what Fing  sets me off about this whole thing: 

 

1) If an offer was present and than you turn down a larger offer in the 11th hour, there was never an intent to stay, dick move. 

2) It appears the agent was even caught off guard, another dick move. 

3) Trevling has a bad record of losing players by not moving them first, playing the nice guy is not the right approach.  He has done some good but has a very poor record  bold moves to prevent losing players for nothing and a really poor FA record. 

4) If Matthew doesn't sign a contract extenstion before the season, than he is moved instantly.

5) Lastly and the most concerning is IF and this is speculation there is no back up plan in placebased off thids possiblity, Trevling should be relieved of his duties.  Any GM MIUST have a plan in place based on the remote chance this occurs, there has to be to foresight in the organization to be ready to engage the FA market to complete your roster. Currently Tre in my humble opinion should be removed at this point, he has gambled to many times in good faith only to have the organization pay the price. 

 

The decision by JG right now has put this organization in a position of weakness with this late of a decision. Thats what pisses me off the most. 

 

For the burn it to the ground group, move on. This is one guy yes it stings a lot but the owners never have a give up attitude. Plus there is no way we could get to the point of where CHI or ARZ are. 

100% spot on 100% agree fully with all of this!

well put Tmac! 

 

[MP5029]

Mmm i wonder if Phi would give a 2024 first (either theirs or Fla’s) if we took JVR and his 7 mil for this season?

 

not the best replacement for

Gaudreau but it

could help short

term and long term with the 2024 1st round…could be a way to make up for Not

moving Gaudreau last year?

 

 

[rocketdoctor]

[phoenix66]

all i want today is a better second line.,. Kadri and Burakowsky would make me happy 

id even settle for Strome . just somebody to give his wingers the puck 

[sak22]

45 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I would trade Tkachuk to NJ for a package around Luke Hughes.

 

Send Lindholm to Colorado for Byram.

 

Take JVR, and get a couple of picks and or prospects with him.

 

I would look to move Hanifin and Andersson too.

 

We have lots of pieces to get a good jump start on a proper rebuild.

You would do all that with a 1 year contract.  Sounds good if you want to head into TV or back to scouting, easy to say thats what you do if you aren't in that position.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I would trade Tkachuk to NJ for a package around Luke Hughes.

 

Send Lindholm to Colorado for Byram.

 

Take JVR, and get a couple of picks and or prospects with him.

 

I would look to move Hanifin and Andersson too.

 

We have lots of pieces to get a good jump start on a proper rebuild.

 

Lindholm is our best or 2nd best player.  I get that we lost a cornerstone, but a rebuild is never going to happen.

[MP5029]

Well with the $$$ savings maybe we could add a few players…

D. Strome 

A. Bourkovski (sp?) 

 

These two BT should

go hard at…

 

I can’t help but feel Manj on the top line with Lindholm and Tachuck will be awfully close to Gaudreau’s output…heck he was only 5 goals less in the 2nd line which was not even close to an offensive powerhouse of a line.

 

add Bourk’s playoff experience with the cup champs on the 2nd line and Strome at Ctr with Toffoil as the RW and I think you have a better over all top two lines for the same price as it would have been just for Gaudreau 

 

I think if done right, this could set Cgy up to move a few players out (Backlund, Lucic, Monahan) and get some cap

space or draft picks/prospects 

 

key in all this is to lock up Manji and Tachuck to Long term deals and avoid this mess in the future…

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Z-AB]

5 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

lock up Manji

^  this

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Well with the $$$ savings maybe we could add a few players…

D. Strome 

A. Bourkovski (sp?) 

 

These two BT should

go hard at…

 

I can’t help but feel Manj on the top line with Lindholm and Tachuck will be awfully close to Gaudreau’s output…heck he was only 5 goals less in the 2nd line which was not even close to an offensive powerhouse of a line.

 

add Bourk’s playoff experience with the cup champs on the 2nd line and Strome at Ctr with Toffoil as the RW and I think you have a better over all top two lines for the same price as it would have been just for Gaudreau 

 

I think if done right, this could set Cgy up to move a few players out (Backlund, Lucic, Monahan) and get some cap

space or draft picks/prospects 

 

key in all this is to lock up Manji and Tachuck to Long term deals and avoid this mess in the future…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Burakovsky would be interesting, but do we need him to replace Gaudreau or Mangiapane's game.  Is he able to pass?  Mange is a shooter and doesn't help Lindy or Matty score.  

 

 

[bosn111]

NJ just traded Zacha to the Bruins as per TSN. As an RFA looking for a raise, this sounds like they will be taking a run at at least 1 big UFA. They need to sign 5 more forwards, 2 D and 1 G (Unless Bernier gets healthy). with around 27 million. They have Bratt and Boqvist both looking for raises.

 

If Jersey signs Gaudreau for 10+, a solid D like Zadorov for 3+, that still leaves 14 mil cap for 4 forwards, 1 D and 1 G. That isn’t enough to handle Tkachuk as well if they want to re-sign Bratt and/or Boqvist.

 

Just thinking through some ideas, Flames need 7 forwards and 2 D signed with 26 mil cap space. Monahan takes up 6 mil+ if healthy.

 

Would the Flames be able to offer a package that would work to get Mercer and Bratt from Jersey? Something like Backlund + Valimaki + Dube for Bratt and Mercer? Would that be enough? 
 

Flames should move on from Monahan in some sort of trade. I also think Tkachuk should be moved (I don’t see captain material at this time and cap hit too high for my liking and lack of speed). While I like Backlund, I think he is available for trade. Without Gaudreau, Lucic becomes less needed.

 

Likely move Tkachuk east. Not sure who for.

 

My goal, based on Flames D, would be to move away from the possession game (Backlund, Lucic, Monahan, Dube, Tkachuk and to an extent Gaudreau) and move more to a transition game. Strong D that can send forwards on fast attacks. Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington  are are very good puck movers, looks like Poirier is as well. Gudbranson (if brought back),Tanev, Mackey and Kuznetsov are more solid defensive specialists. So this style would fit better with our D and likely be able to deal with the speed of McDavid and MacKinnon better. This is also a bit more Sutter style where good D leads to offensive chances.

 

Anyways, just some thoughts.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

5) Lastly and the most concerning is IF and this is speculation there is no back up plan in placebased off thids possiblity, Trevling should be relieved of his duties.  Any GM MIUST have a plan in place based on the remote chance this occurs, there has to be to foresight in the organization to be ready to engage the FA market to complete your roster. Currently Tre in my humble opinion should be removed at this point, he has gambled to many times in good faith only to have the organization pay the price. 

 

Judging from BT's presser, he was all in Gaudreau.  There was no Plan B discussed to any degree of seriousness.  The group will meet this morning on a plan forward.