2022 Offseason

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

I'm still looking at Barzal. 

 

To NYI,

Hanifin + Dube + 2023 1st

 

To CGY,

Barzal + 2023 Stanley Cup

 

Barzal is RHS and can play RW.  His game is similar to Gaudreau/Marner.  Can drive play.  Can finish.  He's the real deal playing in a contract year and could hit 90-points with Huberdeau.

It's best to stop looking, 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

It's best to stop looking, 

 

[LouCifer]

 

[travel_dude]

We have two or three assets worth anything that we can trade, not including top picks.  

Hanifin, Dube, Valimaki.

We are trying to improve the top 6 wings.

Hanifin doesn't really make us dramatically worse on D.

He should bring back a player that is $5M or so.

You could substitute Kylington for Hanifin, but I don't think you get a similar return.

As well, you are giving up a growing player.

 

Valimaki doesn't get you anything other than an equivalent struggling player.

 

Dube is similar in value to Kylington.

 

No point in talking about Lucic.  We need him for a year.

We can even re-sign him for a short term deal at his true value.

 

[travel_dude]

[LouCifer]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

We have two or three assets worth anything that we can trade, not including top picks.  

Hanifin, Dube, Valimaki.

We are trying to improve the top 6 wings.

Hanifin doesn't really make us dramatically worse on D.

He should bring back a player that is $5M or so.

You could substitute Kylington for Hanifin, but I don't think you get a similar return.

As well, you are giving up a growing player.

 

Valimaki doesn't get you anything other than an equivalent struggling player.

 

Dube is similar in value to Kylington.

 

No point in talking about Lucic.  We need him for a year.

We can even re-sign him for a short term deal at his true value.

 

Agreed TD. But I’ve switched my position and really think we should hold on to Hanifin. If we could fetch a pick for Valimaki (2nd?) we free up $1.5M cap I believe, giving us over $3.5M in cap space today. We then maybe bring in Rodrigues - he liked a tweet about Kadri going to Calgary above (and I’ve read elsewhere that someone may have heard CGY talking about Kessel) and still have some cap flexibility for the TDL. 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Agreed TD. But I’ve switched my position and really think we should hold on to Hanifin. If we could fetch a pick for Valimaki (2nd?) we free up $1.5M cap I believe, giving us over $3.5M in cap space today. We then maybe bring in Rodrigues (and I’ve read elsewhere that someone may have heard CGY talking about Kessel) and still have some cap flexibility for the TDL. 

 

It's Oils that are talking (nonstop) about Phil.

I gave up about Kadri early on, since it seemed like he was NYI or AVS.

Valimaki may only be worth a pick, but in my mind that is a bust trade.

Really, it comes down to Hanifin or Dube.

Hanifin solves two problems; excess D and pending overpay.

Kylington's next deal is not going to be worth $7M.

And frankly, we can be paying $7M for a 2nd pairing ceiling guy.

Got no problem with Weegar, since he's a top 2.

We really need some LD stepping up.

And find another RD to replace Tanev eventually.

 

[travel_dude]

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

The issue here is Manji has not had much success on the RW…

 

Toffoli could benefit from Hubby

 

another RW top 2 passer would be ideal for a Manji and Kadri line which lets you slide Pelletier to LW with Backlund and Coleman on the 3rd…helps shelter him with 2 very solid and capable Vets…also Dube did not adjust well to playing with Backlund and Coleman last year…took a lot heat from Sutter too, so he’s kinda the odd man out…love the kid but at this point it’s pretty clear he’s not fitting in on this team.

 

i think baring a move out of Lucic the best play for For the 4th line is adding Ruzi and moving Rooney to RW or alternating between Rooney and Ruzi…again, helps shelter Ruzi…

 

Lewis is obviously a spare but a solid reliable one at that…let’s Sutter move in added beef where needed 

 

The Bryzal idea on RW would be incredible with Manji/Kadri but I’m not 100% sure that could happen…maybe Hanifin+Dube (being the odd man out) could get you close? 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

That looks good and I don’t mind Pelletier taking a whirl there. 
 

I hear you about Hanifin, and I propose this:

 

- Trade him after this season. No rush now. He’ll have one season left at a very decent cap hit and there will be a lot of interest. Or,

- If we have plans to still bring in someone significant, Trade him this season (maybe along with one of our other extra defensemen), for a defenseman with some snarl, who’s defensively sound, and has a lower salary - that can play 3rd pairing very well and won’t cost as much to re-sign. Maybe we get a pick as well. Does Grzelcyk out of BOS fill that? Of course, BOS has some cap issues but also has players sitting out half the season. 

[LouCifer]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

You know I love Barzal, Peeps. I’d love to get him here, still. I just think it became increasingly difficult to pull it off with the Kadri signing. Sure, Dube’s and Hanifin’s cap hits would definitely cover Barzal’s cap hit, but, the common idea is that NYI has been trying to reduce salary, and Dube and Hanifin don’t allow them to do so in a trade for Barzal. Additionally, NYI having missed out on every free agent this summer has some calling for Lamoriello’s head.

 

More recently, NYI has been linked to JT Miller out of VAN, and if my gut feeling about Barzal pulling a Tkachuk (and choosing not to re-up with NYI long term), it would make sense that NYI would be exploring a JT Miller for Barzal trade. Barzal is a BC boy if I recall correctly, and despite growing up a Flames and Hawks fan, I could see him agreeing to a long term contract in his home province. It’s a logical assumption on my part, and of course NYI would need to ensure that JT is willing to extend long term with them… but. And this is a big but. If and only if Lamoriello is really interested in Hanifin and JT Miller, there may be a 3-team trade that could bring Barzal to CGY, Hanifin and JT Miller to NYI, and Dube ++ (Valimaki?) to VAN. Maybe Dobson goes to VAN as well? Maybe Garland is in the mix somewhere too? 
 

Possible? Maybe. Probable? Unlikely. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, LouCifer said:

You know I love Barzal, Peeps. I’d love to get him here, still. I just think it became increasingly difficult to pull it off with the Kadri signing. Sure, Dube’s and Hanifin’s cap hits would definitely cover Barzal’s cap hit, but, the common idea is that NYI has been trying to reduce salary, and Dube and Hanifin don’t allow them to do so in a trade for Barzal. Additionally, NYI having missed out on every free agent this summer has some calling for Lamoriello’s head.

 

More recently, NYI has been linked to JT Miller out of VAN, and if my gut feeling about Barzal pulling a Tkachuk (and choosing not to re-up with NYI long term), it would make sense that NYI would be exploring a JT Miller for Barzal trade. Barzal is a BC boy if I recall correctly, and despite growing up a Flames and Hawks fan, I could see him agreeing to a long term contract in his home province. It’s a logical assumption on my part, and of course NYI would need to ensure that JT is willing to extend long term with them… but. And this is a big but. If and only if Lamoriello is really interested in Hanifin and JT Miller, there may be a 3-team trade that could bring Barzal to CGY, Hanifin and JT Miller to NYI, and Dube ++ (Valimaki?) to VAN. Maybe Dobson goes to VAN as well? Maybe Garland is in the mix somewhere too? 
 

Possible? Maybe. Probable? Unlikely. 

Barzal for Lindholm? Although, what is a Lindholm contract gonna look like and will he stay in Calgary?

 

and still trade Hanifin for a RW.

[LouCifer]

22 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Barzal for Lindholm? Although, what is a Lindholm contract gonna look like and will he stay in Calgary?

 

and still trade Hanifin for a RW.

😳

Completely turn over our whole top line eh? I didn’t know you were so ruthless Rob! 😂

 

Just kidding of course. 
 

We’ve seen Lindholm grow from a top line RW to a top line C. I have no doubt he’d re-up with us when his contract is done. Management has shown a willingness to win, and they take care of their players. Markstrom is his best friend too right? I think he has lots of reasons to stay. I wouldn’t put him in a trade for Barzal. It would seem like an awful thing to do. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Seems like rushing Pelletier a bit here.  Not sure he's ready for a top 6 role right away.

 

Mange on RW feels like the logical thing to do.  Let Mange know early so he can adjust... Tkachuk made the transition successfully so maybe Mange can do it.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, LouCifer said:

You know I love Barzal, Peeps. I’d love to get him here, still. I just think it became increasingly difficult to pull it off with the Kadri signing. Sure, Dube’s and Hanifin’s cap hits would definitely cover Barzal’s cap hit, but, the common idea is that NYI has been trying to reduce salary, and Dube and Hanifin don’t allow them to do so in a trade for Barzal. Additionally, NYI having missed out on every free agent this summer has some calling for Lamoriello’s head.

 

More recently, NYI has been linked to JT Miller out of VAN, and if my gut feeling about Barzal pulling a Tkachuk (and choosing not to re-up with NYI long term), it would make sense that NYI would be exploring a JT Miller for Barzal trade. Barzal is a BC boy if I recall correctly, and despite growing up a Flames and Hawks fan, I could see him agreeing to a long term contract in his home province. It’s a logical assumption on my part, and of course NYI would need to ensure that JT is willing to extend long term with them… but. And this is a big but. If and only if Lamoriello is really interested in Hanifin and JT Miller, there may be a 3-team trade that could bring Barzal to CGY, Hanifin and JT Miller to NYI, and Dube ++ (Valimaki?) to VAN. Maybe Dobson goes to VAN as well? Maybe Garland is in the mix somewhere too? 
 

Possible? Maybe. Probable? Unlikely. 

 

Did Barzal grow up a Flames fan?  He's born in Chilliwack apparently.  More reason to get him then.

 

I don't think he's going to have a good season in NYI considering his linemates. This means NYI doesn't want to qualify him at $10-mil... Which means there's a good chance he goes UFA next summer.  ...if he's UFA and he's a Flames fan, then we have a shot to sign him next summer.

 

Or at least, Barzal could be a TDL target.  I dont think the Isles are a playoff team and will be selling.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Seems like rushing Pelletier a bit here.  Not sure he's ready for a top 6 role right away.

 

Mange on RW feels like the logical thing to do.  Let Mange know early so he can adjust... Tkachuk made the transition successfully so maybe Mange can do it.

 

Not my ideal lineup.

I would prefer to see Kadri with Mange and another RW.

That requires a trade, assuming we lose Dube in part of the trade:

 

Hubie-Lindy-Toffoli

Mange-Kadri-RW

Pelletier/Ruzicka-Backlund-Coleman

4th line

 

Ruzie or Pelletier learns the defensive side to be more 2 way; Pelts' already good.  Ruzie should learn it.

Toffoli is a finisher and you keep Mange with Ladri, who I thin would blend well with him.

The new RW is a finisher and can pass.

 

I would need to do a bit better research on which team needs a D and a young winger.  The trade should provide us a RHS RW coming back.  

[sak22]

44 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Did Barzal grow up a Flames fan?  He's born in Chilliwack apparently.  More reason to get him then.

 

I don't think he's going to have a good season in NYI considering his linemates. This means NYI doesn't want to qualify him at $10-mil... Which means there's a good chance he goes UFA next summer.  ...if he's UFA and he's a Flames fan, then we have a shot to sign him next summer.

 

Or at least, Barzal could be a TDL target.  I dont think the Isles are a playoff team and will be selling.

They don't have to

 

 

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not my ideal lineup.

I would prefer to see Kadri with Mange and another RW.

That requires a trade, assuming we lose Dube in part of the trade:

 

Hubie-Lindy-Toffoli

Mange-Kadri-RW

Pelletier/Ruzicka-Backlund-Coleman

4th line

 

Ruzie or Pelletier learns the defensive side to be more 2 way; Pelts' already good.  Ruzie should learn it.

Toffoli is a finisher and you keep Mange with Ladri, who I thin would blend well with him.

The new RW is a finisher and can pass.

 

I would need to do a bit better research on which team needs a D and a young winger.  The trade should provide us a RHS RW coming back.  

 

Ya I think Pelletier - Backlund would be the perfect way to develop Pelletier.  Backlund has brought along Mange, and even Tkachuk and Lindholm.  Let Pelletier play on Backlund's wing.

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, sak22 said:

They don't have to

 

 

 

[JTech780]

Would Hanifin for Bratt make sense?

 

NJ is weak on the left side and contract negotiations between them and Bratt didn’t go very well.

[phoenix66]

Flames offseason in 15 seconds 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

[Horsman1]

still need a right winger for Lindholm and Hubrdeau,  2nd line of Mangiapane/Kadri and Tofoli is fine.. need a left winger for Backlund and Coleman and a right winger for Lucic andLewis..anyone know when training camp roster is being announced

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Would Hanifin for Bratt make sense?

 

NJ is weak on the left side and contract negotiations between them and Bratt didn’t go very well.

 

Bratt would be ideal as a top line winger, or a winger to play with Mange on the Kadri line.

I think they might want more than Hanifin, but maybe not.

 

Hubie-Lindy-Toffoli

Mange-Kadri-Bratt

 

Seems ideal.  The other name I was thinking about was Beauvillier, but doesn't work as well.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Would Hanifin for Bratt make sense?

 

NJ is weak on the left side and contract negotiations between them and Bratt didn’t go very well.

Keep in mind whenever we talk about contract negotiations not going well, how many negotiations haven't gone well for the Flames where the relationship didn't sour, not even including Gaudreau or Tkachuk who some can point to, but Mang had a bad negotiation his first go, Gio left for Russia, Iggy held out and Kipper went to arbitration.  Very easy to see why there would be a gap between NJ and Bratt during negotiations when there is a massive jump in production for one year. 

 

Personally I'm in the camp of keeping Hanifin and rounding out the roster with youth this year and then trade him for futures next year, but even that depends on if Weegar signs.  I don't really like the thought of creating cap hell.  If you look at 2 years from now we have 39 million in 6 players if you add say Bratt and Weegar for 7 million each you are sitting with 53 million for 8 players say you sign Lindholm for 10 million and then you have around 25 million to spend on over 10 players, with only 2 defenseman signed.  

 

We spent years complaining about cap management back in the day or the reluctance to play the prospects, but yet here were are:

 

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Keep in mind whenever we talk about contract negotiations not going well, how many negotiations haven't gone well for the Flames where the relationship didn't sour, not even including Gaudreau or Tkachuk who some can point to, but Mang had a bad negotiation his first go, Gio left for Russia, Iggy held out and Kipper went to arbitration.  Very easy to see why there would be a gap between NJ and Bratt during negotiations when there is a massive jump in production for one year. 

 

Personally I'm in the camp of keeping Hanifin and rounding out the roster with youth this year and then trade him for futures next year, but even that depends on if Weegar signs.  I don't really like the thought of creating cap hell.  If you look at 2 years from now we have 39 million in 6 players if you add say Bratt and Weegar for 7 million each you are sitting with 53 million for 8 players say you sign Lindholm for 10 million and then you have around 25 million to spend on over 10 players, with only 2 defenseman signed.  

 

We spent years complaining about cap management back in the day or the reluctance to play the prospects, but yet here were are:

 

 

Talking about Tkachuk and Gaudreau as if we had any control about their negotiations seems a bit far fetched.  We can keep Hanifin and trade him next year for a player that might cost more.  Does that fix any problem?  The reason why there is little impact this year is we have two players making what we offered Gaudreau initially. 

 

I'm all for having youg guys step up, but who are they replacing?  Not anyone from the default top 6.  Perhaps Dube from the 3rd line.  Maybe Rooney/Lucic/Lewis.  Maybe they lessen the need for Backlund long term.  

 

I think you really need to look at who is currently capable of playing on one of the two scoring lines.  We don't have the 6th player from last year's results.  Maybe Dube is that guy or maybe Coleman could be that guy, but those are two that play a sound defensive game first.  I think it would be best to have a player that can play either wing.  That way you aren't locked into Mange on the top RW or 2nd LW, or Toffoli on the top RW.  Just me I guess.