2022 Offseason

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I bet Tkachuk is leaving too if Gaudreau is.  It all comes down to Gaudreau.

Now you're just doing it on purpose 😉

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oh also, $9.5-mil x 8 is a joke IMO.  Gaudreau is going to think he can get $10.5 x 7... Then sign a one year for $5-mil as a 36-year old.  Why not?  

 

I think it's an estimate, not an informed source.  

But, if true I think it was too low.

$10M should have been the floor.

At least then he feels like his offer is at least as good as Marner's.

Yeah, I know it's negotiating, but it's not always the best strategy to come in low.

10 still gives you room, and if you think he should be the face of the franchise, then pay the face.

$80M is harder to come close to on 7 years.  Panarin level.

 

Tkachuk is a different beast.

Maybe he wants 5 years.

Should get less than Guadreau.

Just my opinion.

[Thebrewcrew]

I think the 9.5 is the floor for negotiations.

 

I think Gaudreau signs for more, but not exactly an insulting offer. Stone/Kucherov/McAvoy/Fox/Vasilevskiy/Point/Ovechkin all have cap-hits of 9.5

 

Seravalli indicated there's a willingness from the Flames to go higher than 9.5, but that the Flames explained to Gaudreau, the higher the AAV, the tougher it is to surround him with talent. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it's an estimate, not an informed source.  

But, if true I think it was too low.

$10M should have been the floor.

At least then he feels like his offer is at least as good as Marner's.

Yeah, I know it's negotiating, but it's not always the best strategy to come in low.

10 still gives you room, and if you think he should be the face of the franchise, then pay the face.

$80M is harder to come close to on 7 years.  Panarin level.

 

Tkachuk is a different beast.

Maybe he wants 5 years.

Should get less than Guadreau.

Just my opinion.

i agree if it is true that it’s too low. BT already underpaid Johnny in the last contract and is possibly doing it again. We give him koodos for the good contracts. It’s good, I agree, but maybe it can come off as insulting in some cases?

[The_People1]

36 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i agree if it is true that it’s too low. BT already underpaid Johnny in the last contract and is possibly doing it again. We give him koodos for the good contracts. It’s good, I agree, but maybe it can come off as insulting in some cases?

 

Insulting or not, Gaudreau's camp needs to uphold some level of professionalism and at least respond with a yay or nay, or counter offer.  It's reportedly been 1 whole month since the offer and there is no response.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the 9.5 is the floor for negotiations.

 

I think Gaudreau signs for more, but not exactly an insulting offer. Stone/Kucherov/McAvoy/Fox/Vasilevskiy/Point/Ovechkin all have cap-hits of 9.5

 

Seravalli indicated there's a willingness from the Flames to go higher than 9.5, but that the Flames explained to Gaudreau, the higher the AAV, the tougher it is to surround him with talent. 

 

Well, if that's what they told him, it was wrong to do.

Of course it's true, but that's not his problem.

Wasted picks for Hamonic.

Poor draft choices and buy outs.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Insulting or not, Gaudreau's camp needs to uphold some level of professionalism and at least respond with a yay or nay, or counter offer.  It's reportedly been 1 whole month since the offer and there is no response.

 

For sure.  Two sides to the negotiation.

Perhaps it's a bit of posturing due to being less than what they expected to be a strong offer.  It's not chump change, but BT talks about him having a legacy.  

[conundrumed]

If someone else signs him for 10.5 x 7, they better hope beyond hope that they don't get the constantly whining version.

There has only been 1 year of that, and likely because his coach read him the riot act about that stuff.

There's no saying he won't get targeted and revert back. Said team will need some quality face-punchers.

[MP5029]

18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

D by committee to replace an aging vet is one thing.

For sure, if we replace JH with Kadri and Forsberg we would have more scoring and likely a better team.

That's also kinda the point, we need at least one comp player to replace him.

And we have to delve into FA to do it, since we lost via FA.

 

If we lose JH, then we have to have a serious conversation about Tkachuk.  Is he what we need?  We are down to Lindholm and Backlund as our two top C.  Monahan dropped to an after thought.  Give Backs credit for stepping up, but you can only hope he stays competitive longer than a couple of years.  Here we are again.  

 

EDIT:  Yes, I know the total for Kadri and Forsberg would be about $8M more than just Johnny.

Tachuck is a very unique talent, still very young and getting better…the only conversation with him is how long can you wrap him up for and who to bring in to support him.

[cross16]

I don't get this "insulting" offer part at all. Since COVID it's the 2nd largest guaranteed contract (if he were to sign it) in the league beaten only by Alexander Barkov. Even if you want to go back to 2019 the only larger offers are Eirk karlsson and Panarin and i've already shown that this offer is on par with the Panarin deal. 

 

There is no indication at all this was a take it or leave it offer, the opposite appears to be true, so this is also a starting offer. But the idea that it's "insulting" is crazy, it's a very good offer. 

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Are his advanced stats that bad?  He was our best Dman in the Oilers series... Which isn't saying much I know.

 

Depends on your criteria. IMO, if you want to be a top 4 dman you can't be so one dimensional and he is. He was great in the role he played last year but that role should not pay the type of money being rumored here. 

 

 

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Depends on your criteria. IMO, if you want to be a top 4 dman you can't be so one dimensional and he is. He was great in the role he played last year but that role should not pay the type of money being rumored here. 

 

 

That's dated, from when we signed him. But it is noteworthy that Sutter scratched him a lot to start the season.

"My way or the highway", I'd guess.

He was still 5th toi with us 5x5. He's a 3rd pair at best, if you can keep him focused. If you can't, he's an adventure.

He's a $3mil, maybe $3.5mil per guy, tops.

Someone will go beyond that and I wish them and him the best.

[cross16]

Just now, conundrumed said:

That's dated, from when we signed him. But it is noteworthy that Sutter scratched him a lot to start the season.

 

 

it is, but the profile didn't change much this season. I just don't have access to a new card. 

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

it is, but the profile didn't change much this season. I just don't have access to a new card. 

Fair. He's a 3rd pair. I don't want $4-4.5per on 3rd pair. So we reach the same conclusion.

[sak22]

 

 

[cross16]

Looks like Sabres trying to weaponize cap space. It was rumored a while ago that their GM was (or maybe still is) a fan of Monahan. 

 

NTC's would likely be at play here but something potentially interesting to watch

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

Just GM speak.  Just means we are not trading Tkachuk unless it's a deal we can't refuse.  Or, we've shopped him briefly and the returns were not great.  So save face.

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Sabres trying to weaponize cap space. It was rumored a while ago that their GM was (or maybe still is) a fan of Monahan. 

 

NTC's would likely be at play here but something potentially interesting to watch

 

 

 

I think Monahan realizes that he stands a better chance at playing above the 4th line by restarting his career elsewhere.  It's not just about getting back on track for a year, it's about proving that you are worth another decent contract offer.  His last two years here have done nothing to enhance that.  Playing with Lucic didn't exactly help.

[The_People1]

I'm feeling that NJ will not trade the 2OA+Holtz for Tkachuk.  If anything, they sign Gaudreau this summer first.

 

Fitzgerald/Tkachuk could have had some talk under the table for Tkachuk to take a 1-year.  Next summer, NJ will sign Tkachuk as well.

 

This allows NJ in the summer of 2023 to get both Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and keep 2022 2OA+Holtz.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I don't get this "insulting" offer part at all. Since COVID it's the 2nd largest guaranteed contract (if he were to sign it) in the league beaten only by Alexander Barkov. Even if you want to go back to 2019 the only larger offers are Eirk karlsson and Panarin and i've already shown that this offer is on par with the Panarin deal. 

 

There is no indication at all this was a take it or leave it offer, the opposite appears to be true, so this is also a starting offer. But the idea that it's "insulting" is crazy, it's a very good offer. 

 

It's pure speculation as to what the offer actually was.  People throw around $9.5M like it was published in CapFriendly.  It's a guess.  So, significant could mean anything.  It could be $8.5M with all but $1M paid as a bonus.  It could be $14M in Y1 and 2, but average out a lot less.

 

Insulting to me would be $8.5M x 8.  Sure, it's just an initial offer, but low-balling isn't a great strategy.  Point is we just don't know. 

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I'm feeling that NJ will not trade the 2OA+Holtz for Tkachuk.  If anything, they sign Gaudreau this summer first.

 

Fitzgerald/Tkachuk could have had some talk under the table for Tkachuk to take a 1-year.  Next summer, NJ will sign Tkachuk as well.

 

This allows NJ in the summer of 2023 to get both Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and keep 2022 2OA+Holtz.

 

Well that trade would need to occur this afternoon.  Eklund talking about it, so you know it will never happen.  He's also suggesting that Philly trade for his rights.  BT isn't that nimble when it comes to big trades, they take a lot of time it seems.  So, I agree, the Tkachuk trade won't happen today.  

 

If Tkachuk merely signs a 1 year deal, then he is going to be traded anywhere.  Highest bidder.  

[phoenix66]

 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 

 

 

 

A few players come to mind.

Barzal because they can get him signed to an extension right now, but I don't see that being a huge concern.  Dobson is a RFA, but has no real leverage.  Bellows maybe.  The first two interest me, but at what cost.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Monahan realizes that he stands a better chance at playing above the 4th line by restarting his career elsewhere.  It's not just about getting back on track for a year, it's about proving that you are worth another decent contract offer.  His last two years here have done nothing to enhance that.  Playing with Lucic didn't exactly help.

 

If Gaudreau is leaving then Monahan might waive to leave too.  They are good friends.  But that's a good point about ice time.  Monahan would get more ice time elsewhere.  Sutter sees Monahan as a 4th liner here.

[cross16]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's pure speculation as to what the offer actually was.  People throw around $9.5M like it was published in CapFriendly.  It's a guess.  So, significant could mean anything.  It could be $8.5M with all but $1M paid as a bonus.  It could be $14M in Y1 and 2, but average out a lot less.

 

Insulting to me would be $8.5M x 8.  Sure, it's just an initial offer, but low-balling isn't a great strategy.  Point is we just don't know. 

 

I do not believe to be a guess.  I do not believe what is out there is a rumor based on what i've heard.