2022 Offseason

[The_People1]

Why does PLD not want to be in WPG?  I thought his dad is there or most of his family or something?  He was so happy to be out of CBJ and going "home".  Would he want to be in Calgary?  He seems to pout a lot if he's not happy where he is so buyer beware I feel... Unless he loves to be here of course.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

46 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Why does PLD not want to be in WPG?  I thought his dad is there or most of his family or something?  He was so happy to be out of CBJ and going "home".  Would he want to be in Calgary?  He seems to pout a lot if he's not happy where he is so buyer beware I feel... Unless he loves to be here of course.

I'm not sure where that started as I havent heard anything like that around these parts. As for the fanbase he's one of the few that werent in the fans doghouse on a semi constant basis. Him, Copp, Ehlers, and Connor were the fan faves last year.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

9 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I'm not sure where that started as I havent heard anything like that around these parts. As for the fanbase he's one of the few that werent in the fans doghouse on a semi constant basis. Him, Copp, Ehlers, and Connor were the fan faves last year.

Follow up. Apparently reported by Elliot Freidman that this morning PLD told the Jets he wants to test the FA market.  Most are taking it as posturing for contract leverage but if theres any shred of truth to it then the Jets may need to address it sooner rather than later.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Follow up. Apparently reported by Elliot Freidman that this morning PLD told the Jets he wants to test the FA market.  Most are taking it as posturing for contract leverage but if theres any shred of truth to it then the Jets may need to address it sooner rather than later.

 

WTF?  Now we have RFA's wanting to "test the market".

I heard that CAR is letting Bear listen to offers, to get a trade going.

 

You know that if WPG lets him listen to offers that CGY will be in there like a dirty shirt.

We wanted him before.

Would need to be an interesting offer to move the needle.

Yes, it would require taking a crap contract.

 

Maybe you know a bit better.  Is Wheeler the problem there?

He seemed to be pretty sour about not making the playoffs.

Like people weren't carrying the weight or too many blaming him.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Follow up. Apparently reported by Elliot Freidman that this morning PLD told the Jets he wants to test the FA market.  Most are taking it as posturing for contract leverage but if theres any shred of truth to it then the Jets may need to address it sooner rather than later.

 

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

WTF?  Now we have RFA's wanting to "test the market".

I heard that CAR is letting Bear listen to offers, to get a trade going.

 

You know that if WPG lets him listen to offers that CGY will be in there like a dirty shirt.

We wanted him before.

Would need to be an interesting offer to move the needle.

Yes, it would require taking a crap contract.

 

Maybe you know a bit better.  Is Wheeler the problem there?

He seemed to be pretty sour about not making the playoffs.

Like people weren't carrying the weight or too many blaming him.

 

Ya wow, RFAs "testing the market".  I guess Tkachuk will do so too.  Not bad for us if Tkachuk waits for Gaudreau to decide what he wants to do first.  That way if Gaudreau leaves then we can pivot to a rebuild.  I imagine Tkachuk will want to leave too if Gaudreau leaves.  If Gaudreau signs with us, then I think Tkachuk is more likely to sign long term with us as well.

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Ya wow, RFAs "testing the market".  I guess Tkachuk will do so too.  Not bad for us if Tkachuk waits for Gaudreau to decide what he wants to do first.  That way if Gaudreau leaves then we can pivot to a rebuild.  I imagine Tkachuk will want to leave too if Gaudreau leaves.  If Gaudreau signs with us, then I think Tkachuk is more likely to sign long term with us as well.

 

Maybe Poolparty will do the same.

Seriously, I would prefer PLD.

But, I do think EDM undervalues Pooly.

 

Concentrate on PLD and make it happen.

If we still have assets that would work, then do something with Pooly.

If we are set up, then do a $3.9M OS for Pooly, assuming that EDM has not managed to make trades.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

WTF?  Now we have RFA's wanting to "test the market".

I heard that CAR is letting Bear listen to offers, to get a trade going.

 

You know that if WPG lets him listen to offers that CGY will be in there like a dirty shirt.

We wanted him before.

Would need to be an interesting offer to move the needle.

Yes, it would require taking a crap contract.

 

Maybe you know a bit better.  Is Wheeler the problem there?

He seemed to be pretty sour about not making the playoffs.

Like people weren't carrying the weight or too many blaming him.

It all seemed like a mess last season. Mgmt and coaching seemed disconnected, there seemed to be no team identity and no leadership. When things werent going right players werent openly calling out anyone else but it sure didnt seem like they were playing for each other as a close knit team.  Before there always seemed to be some sort of off ice distraction (Kane, Buff, Laine, etc) to keep the fans focus partially off the on ice product, thats been gone and now when everyones game was under the microscope they have a lousy season. Getting someone like Trotz behind the bench will do wonders then address the issues in the dressing room. The talent is there so the on ice results should follow suit.

 

Interestingly theres always been the belief that ownership specifically Chipman is a little too involved in the day to day operations of the team so maybe Chevy is less of a patient GM and more of a handcuffed GM when it comes to acquisitions and trades.

 

Finally, Wheeler wears the C out there, its up to him to keep the locker room together and lead by example. His outgoing media interview made him look like he doesnt know what to do.  And thats not what you want from your  $8.25 mil captain.

[The_People1]

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-rumors-june-22-2022/

 

Sounds like Martin Necas could be had for a Dman since CAR is going to let Ethan Bear go... Bear is RHS RD but maybe this is where we can move Kylington for Necas?  I would even do Hanifin for Necas if CAR wants Hanifin back.  To me, Necas is a young Backlund who is a great skater, drives play, and has untapped offense.  If we want to take a chance on a kid who is on the verge of a breakout, then Necas has to be someone we look into.  Necas is a RHS C and Sutter likes his RHS faceoff players.

 

 

[robrob74]

17 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Problem being if he's not injured you can't use LTIR. I suppose the A for conditioning but even that's dicey if he's at camp. There is medical staff so it's difficult to believe his claims that he hid his injury.

It would be a bad look for both him and team.

yet he played through most of the season the year before and could not really tie his shoes or skates. So it’s a tough one to see either side. What they tells me is corporate is okay with it if player plays through it. So I just don’t trust the doctors in this case and Monahan hasn’t been the best at diagnosing himself. I get the pkayer autonomy thing in this case. So I doubt they go the heal him 100% route. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Follow up. Apparently reported by Elliot Freidman that this morning PLD told the Jets he wants to test the FA market.  Most are taking it as posturing for contract leverage but if theres any shred of truth to it then the Jets may need to address it sooner rather than later.

 

PLD seems like a diva and has hardly lived up to his billing so far. He hasn’t gotten what he wants and I’d steer clear of him now. 

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Ya wow, RFAs "testing the market".  I guess Tkachuk will do so too.  Not bad for us if Tkachuk waits for Gaudreau to decide what he wants to do first.  That way if Gaudreau leaves then we can pivot to a rebuild.  I imagine Tkachuk will want to leave too if Gaudreau leaves.  If Gaudreau signs with us, then I think Tkachuk is more likely to sign long term with us as well.

Informed the Jets he wants to test FA in 2024.

I'd assume that means, "let's trade this frigging guy" to Chevy.

[Thebrewcrew]

When PLD wanted out of Columbus, it was reported that he wanted “a big stage”. The Jackets and Jets have tremendous fan bases, but definitely aren’t a huge market. 

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

When PLD wanted out of Columbus, it was reported that he wanted “a big stage”. The Jackets and Jets have tremendous fan bases, but definitely aren’t a huge market. 

 

Insert joke about fans of BJ's and the market for them being huge.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-rumors-june-22-2022/

 

Sounds like Martin Necas could be had for a Dman since CAR is going to let Ethan Bear go... Bear is RHS RD but maybe this is where we can move Kylington for Necas?  I would even do Hanifin for Necas if CAR wants Hanifin back.  To me, Necas is a young Backlund who is a great skater, drives play, and has untapped offense.  If we want to take a chance on a kid who is on the verge of a breakout, then Necas has to be someone we look into.  Necas is a RHS C and Sutter likes his RHS faceoff players.

 

 

 

We should be in on this as much as PLD, if not more.

Both are players that give you 100%.

I'll give PLD a pass under Torts, since that was isolated.

 

Unfortunately, trading Hanifin sets us back if we don't get a LD.

Kylington would be a fair trade and while we might regret it, the return offsets it.

We might need to bridge him to make his deal work though.

I am a little concerned that we are yet to tap into Kylington's true value.

We don't have anyone at that level to replace him.

But the flipside is that Kyl without Tanev to start the season isn't good either.

[travel_dude]

I wonder if Bear is a player we should be looking at.

Not many young RD out there available.

I think that he could be salvaged, so I wonder why CAR is thinking about trading him.

It may just be them offering a reality check to the player and he will sign there.

 

He wasn't the worst thing EDM had, though it's hard to tell if he could play well in a more limited role with us.

The Oiler stink has worn off.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Informed the Jets he wants to test FA in 2024.

I'd assume that means, "let's trade this frigging guy" to Chevy.

Weird thing to me is youre hurting your own value for this negotiation, Ill safely assume he wont sign anything over 2 years anyway. And your value when the GM tries to make a deal with other teams.  Not to mention how something like this translates with your teammates if youre still in a Winnipeg locker room.

[tmac70]

So just a hypothetical, as I am not sure if this is possible. If the Flames offer JG say 10.5 million for 8 years, that means any other club has to offer 12 million to at least equal the offer. If the player wishes to go NJ can a sign and trade be done with the Flames for 2OA in exchange?  I want him to resign but if the players would prefer to be closer to family do each other a professional curtiousy. JG gets paid, NJ saves money and a fair compensation is provide for the Flames in exchange. There is no way that the Flames can replace the impact the player has on the offensive side.However from a players persective if he is wishing to leave this would be a great jesture from club to player and player to club. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So just a hypothetical, as I am not sure if this is possible. If the Flames offer JG say 10.5 million for 8 years, that means any other club has to offer 12 million to at least equal the offer. If the player wishes to go NJ can a sign and trade be done with the Flames for 2OA in exchange?  I want him to resign but if the players would prefer to be closer to family do each other a professional curtiousy. JG gets paid, NJ saves money and a fair compensation is provide for the Flames in exchange. There is no way that the Flames can replace the impact the player has on the offensive side.However from a players persective if he is wishing to leave this would be a great jesture from club to player and player to club. 

 

 

 

You got it Pontiac.  Though, I think that offer is low from NJ.  Not only do they get the player they want, but don't have to outbid in FA.  I will put it in context.  If it was an offer sheet (not possible in this case), NJ signing him to $10.5M for just 5 years would cost them 4x1st rounders. 

 

In any case, it's a waiting game.  The alternative to a sign and trade is to sign him here with NMC in the first number of years and a L-NTC in the other ones.  He has control over being traded to begin with, should he decide he wants to go East.  After that he limits it to just the teams he wants to go to. 

 

I do still believe that he signs here.  They are talking.  It's ongoing.  Nobody has walked away from the table.  Just don't know if they are close or have big sticking points on either side.  Gross is going to delay as long as he can and still do what's in his client's best interest.  Forcing a trade of his rights are not in the best interests.  Getting the best terms and money is. 

[The_People1]

58 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So just a hypothetical, as I am not sure if this is possible. If the Flames offer JG say 10.5 million for 8 years, that means any other club has to offer 12 million to at least equal the offer. If the player wishes to go NJ can a sign and trade be done with the Flames for 2OA in exchange?  I want him to resign but if the players would prefer to be closer to family do each other a professional curtiousy. JG gets paid, NJ saves money and a fair compensation is provide for the Flames in exchange. There is no way that the Flames can replace the impact the player has on the offensive side.However from a players persective if he is wishing to leave this would be a great jesture from club to player and player to club. 

 

If it's about the money, then I think the Flames will offer the money.  We have the 8th year and all.

 

So if it's not about the money, then NJ has no reason to give us anything.  For all we know, Gaudreau is going to PHI for less money and even NJ won't be able to sign him.  Or if NJ is smart, then they can check capfriendly to see they are sitting comfy while PHI, NYI, NYR, etc can't possibly give Gaudreau "fair" money.  NJ just needs to wait until UFA season begins.  Even if NJ is not Gaudreau's first choice, it's close enough to home.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Informed the Jets he wants to test FA in 2024.

I'd assume that means, "let's trade this frigging guy" to Chevy.

 

Ahh I see.  We should steer away from PLD.  Too much entitlement with so little accomplishments.  We currently have a window open to win the Cup (as long as Gaudreau returns) but we are not exactly a big market so he'll probably leave us after a couple years.

[cross16]

A sign and trade is a possibility but I'm not sure it's a likely one and even if it was i don't think you'd get anywhere close to the 2nd overall pick. If Gaudreau leaves I think it's for 1 of 2 reasons. 1 - he wants to go to the highest bidder and he and his agent think a bidding war can drive the price out of Calgary's range (unlikely IMO) or 2 he just wants to be somewhere else. Both situations don't really lend themselves well to getting a team to give up an asset because at the end day they are not really gaining anything by doing so. 

 

If it were NJ for example maybe they value the 8th year and the potential to shave a mill or so off their cap enough to warrant flipping you a mid round draft picks or something but I can't see them doing more than that. 

[cross16]

Forsberg and Preds don't appear close in talks according to Seravelli. 

 

 

 

[flames for life]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We should be in on this as much as PLD, if not more.

Both are players that give you 100%.

I'll give PLD a pass under Torts, since that was isolated.

 

Unfortunately, trading Hanifin sets us back if we don't get a LD.

Kylington would be a fair trade and while we might regret it, the return offsets it.

We might need to bridge him to make his deal work though.

I am a little concerned that we are yet to tap into Kylington's true value.

We don't have anyone at that level to replace him.

But the flipside is that Kyl without Tanev to start the season isn't good either.

Agree with your assessment of Kylington, other then his ability to play outside of Tanev.  While he was somewhat sheltered without Tanev partnering with him, he was still a plus player.

I think, given his determination to make the team at preseason, he would be just as determined to prove his worth independent of a specific partnering D.  
you’re right that we haven’t seen the ceiling on Kylington.

[The_People1]

Hoping we can get clarity from Gaudreau before the draft July 7.  Otherwise, I think the Flames should pivot to trading his rights... And subsequently also trade Tkachuk because there's no way Tkachuk is a $10-mil player without Gaudreau.

 

If it's about the money, then I think Gaudreau would have already signed with the Flames.  There's really nothing much to think about because the Flames can offer the most money and term.

[Thebrewcrew]

UFA rights are worth very little. Kevin Hayes' UFA rights went from WPG to PHI for a 5th round pick. It's not nothing, but it's not much. 

 

Again, I'm not reading much if anything into the lack of Gaudreau news. The whole league has been quiet aside from head coach hirings. I've kinda had the belief all-along that if Johnny stays, it will be in the week leading up to UFA, maybe even the 12th. I don't blame him, this is a very big decision. 

 

If Gaudreau ends up leaving, I think you bump Mangiapane up to the Lindholm line. Then I think the Flames will look for a 2nd line winger in UFA. 

 

I'm sure the Flames would love to have Kadri or Forsberg, but so would every team in the league. I actually think the Flames would have a better shot at signing Kadri than Forsberg. 

With Kadri the AAV will be between 7-8. The issue will be term, if CGY were to offer the most term, they likely get Kadri IMO. It's likely not the right move, but if Gaudreau leaves the Flames will be desperate and that could result in 6 or 7 years for Kadri. With Forsberg, every offer will be 7 years, so it would take a really high AAV to entice him IMO. He feels like an LA King to me.