2022 Offseason

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

My issue with him this year is strictly cap.  I think he needed a bit longer runway to recover but was hampered by another injury.  DET would likely fit his needs to play nearer to family.  Playing with youth would probably suit him especially if he got his shot back on track.  

i really think Monahan should have waited to come back to 100%. 
 

even Theo skated better than him in his comeback tryout. I’d have signed him just for the ticket sales and shootout. 
 

back to Monahan. It is commendable that he plays through stuff. As a kid I’d dream being the injured hero. I just wish that he didn’t get injured all the time. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i really think Monahan should have waited to come back to 100%. 
 

even Theo skated better than him in his comeback tryout. I’d have signed him just for the ticket sales and shootout. 
 

back to Monahan. It is commendable that he plays through stuff. As a kid I’d dream being the injured hero. I just wish that he didn’t get injured all the time. 

 

If you are relatively pain free, then you go.  I think that's where he was.  Not really allowed to have a year to work on your game.  It was pretty clear from the demotion that he wasn't up to his old self, even if he was 100%.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you are relatively pain free, then you go.  I think that's where he was.  Not really allowed to have a year to work on your game.  It was pretty clear from the demotion that he wasn't up to his old self, even if he was 100%.

well, he didn’t have NHL legs. If it were any other player he’d have been cut. Not saying it is on him, it’s the situations that got him there. Now it is hard to believe him when he says he’s good to go as opposed to other's saying they’re good to go. Monahan has a different pain threshold.

[The_People1]

If anything, Monahan should not play Center anymore when he returns.  Centers need to be the best skater on a line because they need to cover so much ice.  This isn't even mentioning his average vision and play making skills.  

 

Monahan still has a top 10 wrist shot in the NHL and could slot in on LW where he doesn't need to defend all the way behind our goal.  He can camp out at the blueline, break down the wing, and then use his shot where he is most dangerous.  After two hip surgeries now, he needs to change his game to continue at the NHL level.

 

Niklas Backstrom for example, just had hip surgery and it might end his career because recovery is almost a full year.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

well, he didn’t have NHL legs. If it were any other player he’d have been cut. Not saying it is on him, it’s the situations that got him there. Now it is hard to believe him when he says he’s good to go as opposed to other's saying they’re good to go. Monahan has a different pain threshold.

 

Maybe you have a better memory, but I don't recall the skating to be his issue.  His shooting percentage cratered to 7.2%.  Used to call him Moneyhands, but this year is was Margarine Hands.  It got to the point where he lost the PP.  

 

I never considered Monahan to be a fast skater.  About as fast as Toffoli, maybe slightly faster.  He's just built like he should be able to skate.  Take away his shot and his tools are not great.  

 

The end result was a big player that played with Lucic and didn't drive play.  Lucic was hot garbage in the D-zone, so hard to get offense when you can't defend.

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If anything, Monahan should not play Center anymore when he returns.  Centers need to be the best skater on a line because they need to cover so much ice.  This isn't even mentioning his average vision and play making skills.  

 

Monahan still has a top 10 wrist shot in the NHL and could slot in on LW where he doesn't need to defend all the way behind our goal.  He can camp out at the blueline, break down the wing, and then use his shot where he is most dangerous.  After two hip surgeries now, he needs to change his game to continue at the NHL level.

 

Niklas Backstrom for example, just had hip surgery and it might end his career because recovery is almost a full year.  

 

Backstrom is getting resurfaced, which is different.

If Monahan had a decent LW, it might be different.  

Combine Monahan with a skater that can't even get the puck out.

Then you spend the entire shift defending.

Once you go to offense, your winger is behind you.

[Thebrewcrew]

Lots of chatter about Gaudreau from the media.

 

Him not being signed shouldn't be a surprise. It's all about maximizing leverage at this point. The closer we get to July 13, the more desperate CGY will become. By simply waiting until July 12, Gaudreau may be able to squeeze an extra 500k per season out of the Flames.

 

Every team tampers, when the media says "Gaudreau wants to see what's out there", that doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna wait until the 13th to sign. The week leading up to UFA, Gaudreau will have a really good idea of what's out there.

 

I've believed all along that if Gaudreau stays in Calgary, he will be signing at the last moment, like Landeskog last year. Maximize that leverage. If he's unsigned by the 13th, then he's gone. 

[conundrumed]

The media being the media yet again. Making a story out of everything whether it's real or imagined.

I have a lot of respect for LeBrun but these guys also have to make up airspace.

It's the ol' "if you haven't heard a rumour by noon, start one".

Nothing to do but wait and see...3 more weeks of the banter only getting louder.

[MP5029]

Looking at the D

 

As much as we would all love to land a #1 D man…the cost and availability makes it more of a pipe dream than a reality…unless we can draft one…which we have had some success in the past drafting #1 D so, I’d suggest for the time being out best options are stuck with what we have in:

 

Anderson

Tanev

killington

Hanifin

 

Re-sign:

 

Zadorov 

 

and Sign 2 of:

 

R.Hagg

B.Kulak

O.Matta

 

preferred order is as listed.  I was hoping to land Hagg at the TDL but Fla landed him first…he’s solid and I think a puck

moving type D and should be somewhat affordable…signing him would and could open the door for mashing Hanifin expendable as part of an upgrade option for a#1 D  

 

Kulak has been a bit of a sore spot for me when we traded him to

Mlt…he was starting to become a regular here…he’s done very well in Mlt and Edm, I think he would be a great add to the bottom pair with Big Z if we could resign him.

 

as for Maatta he’s kinda the second best option if we couldn’t land Hagg…more expensive and not quite as effective but is good enough that any hole left by Hanifin could be plugged till a #1 D were to be landed.

 

i think Hagg and Kulak are solid upgrades both short and longer term and allows Valimaki and Makey to develop one more season in the AHL..I think 1 more year will be great for both and they will much improved and better all round D if they are given one more year at the AHL level. It also opens the door for moving Hanifin as part of, and if need be for a #1 D, or just keep things the same…either way the D would be greatly improved depth wise which is important, loosing Tanev is a huge blow for this team and with his age and play style I’d like to see Cgy buffer and plan for that by adding Hagg and Kulak…or to a lesser degree Maatta 

 

 

[MP5029]

12 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Lots of chatter about Gaudreau from the media.

 

Him not being signed shouldn't be a surprise. It's all about maximizing leverage at this point. The closer we get to July 13, the more desperate CGY will become. By simply waiting until July 12, Gaudreau may be able to squeeze an extra 500k per season out of the Flames.

 

Every team tampers, when the media says "Gaudreau wants to see what's out there", that doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna wait until the 13th to sign. The week leading up to UFA, Gaudreau will have a really good idea of what's out there.

 

I've believed all along that if Gaudreau stays in Calgary, he will be signing at the last moment, like Landeskog last year. Maximize that leverage. If he's unsigned by the 13th, then he's gone. 

To be honest I don’t think $$$ is at all the issue for either Gaudreau or Cgy…

 

I think Gaudreau is simply trying to figure out if being closer to family is better for him or stay in Cgy 

 

I think he’s torn between loyalty to Cgy (which I think he really wants to stay) or being closer to his family roots…

 

it’s pretty much the only time he has the ability to choose and I think he’s struggling on which way to go with it…it’s a big decision and he only really gets this one shot at it.  I also think regardless of what he decides…he’s gonna leave Money on the table be it here in Cgy, NJD or Phi (or

other team in that area) 

 

no it’s not money leveraging it’s him trying to figure out what’s best for him and the family…I think his family want him closer to home…but I think his heart and loyalty lie in Cgy.

 

[MP5029]

15 hours ago, robrob74 said:

i really think Monahan should have waited to come back to 100%. 
 

even Theo skated better than him in his comeback tryout. I’d have signed him just for the ticket sales and shootout. 
 

back to Monahan. It is commendable that he plays through stuff. As a kid I’d dream being the injured hero. I just wish that he didn’t get injured all the time. 

I pretty much agree with this…

 

I think Cgy should start the year with Monahan on LTD, not for any reason other than to make 100% sure he’s healthy, he’s got a bad history of rushing back from injury, saying he’s 100% but the eye test from fans most of last year…we all kinda knew he wasn’t 100%

 

To be quite honest the “demotion”

I think had more to do with Sutter having a gut feeling Monahan wasn’t 100% so he sheltered him As best he could…I think Sutter was looking out for Monahan’s health more than anything else.

 

personally, I think Cgy should have Monahan on LTD for 1/2 the year, practice and train with the team but going by his past history with injury recover especially now with 2 bad hips…1/2 the year is at least what he needs to get those hips strong…if not a full season.

 

i think if he takes 1/2 to a full year off he will absolutely return to form…but if he doesn’t I think he’s gonna cut his career short which is sad he’s a great player…maybe not a super star but he’s definitely well above average when he’s truly healthy 

[conundrumed]

Problem being if he's not injured you can't use LTIR. I suppose the A for conditioning but even that's dicey if he's at camp. There is medical staff so it's difficult to believe his claims that he hid his injury.

It would be a bad look for both him and team.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

To be honest I don’t think $$$ is at all the issue for either Gaudreau or Cgy…

 

I think Gaudreau is simply trying to figure out if being closer to family is better for him or stay in Cgy 

 

I think he’s torn between loyalty to Cgy (which I think he really wants to stay) or being closer to his family roots…

 

it’s pretty much the only time he has the ability to choose and I think he’s struggling on which way to go with it…it’s a big decision and he only really gets this one shot at it.  I also think regardless of what he decides…he’s gonna leave Money on the table be it here in Cgy, NJD or Phi (or

other team in that area) 

 

no it’s not money leveraging it’s him trying to figure out what’s best for him and the family…I think his family want him closer to home…but I think his heart and loyalty lie in Cgy.

 

 

That, like everything else, is just an opinion.  Other than his mom saying that she hadn't been able to travel during Covid to see him play in person, I haven't heard any suggestions that he's struggling to decide because of family vs loyalty.

 

The Flames made an offer.  There have been discussions back and forth.  Some of may have to do with direction the team is going.  Some may be on bonus structure (ie. signing bonus vs salary) and NTC.  The agent is driving the discussion, so any leverage is being used.  That's what agents do.  No doubt the agent is keeping him up to date on latest talks.  It's a process.  At some point, he will either instruct his agent he wants to sign or allow it to go to the 11th hour and decide then.  When he gets to that point, I am sure he will talk to his family about it.  They have probably already told him his legacy is with the Flames and that Sutter is the best coach to get him on the way to HHOF.  

 

But that is just my opinion as well.  This isn't negotiated in the media, but there also has been no indication of talks breaking down or "ball in someone's court".  It's a process that makes every fan nervous.

[travel_dude]

56 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Problem being if he's not injured you can't use LTIR. I suppose the A for conditioning but even that's dicey if he's at camp. There is medical staff so it's difficult to believe his claims that he hid his injury.

It would be a bad look for both him and team.

 

The conditioning option is only good for a couple of weeks and up to x games.  There's also a big difference between being sore and talking to the medical staff and having the medical staff identify a structural injury that can't be fixed by meds and tape and physio.  

 

The timeline for the surgery and recovery puts him on the ice well before the season starts.  He may not be up to 100%, but would not expect to miss a month.  I guess that having to put more on the previously fixed hip would gain strength there.  Maybe he had two bad hips to begin with and this is the first time he will have rehabbed both sides?

 

I have no evidence to suggest this, but I think Monahan comes back better than he did last year.  

[pikey7883]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The conditioning option is only good for a couple of weeks and up to x games.  There's also a big difference between being sore and talking to the medical staff and having the medical staff identify a structural injury that can't be fixed by meds and tape and physio.  

 

The timeline for the surgery and recovery puts him on the ice well before the season starts.  He may not be up to 100%, but would not expect to miss a month.  I guess that having to put more on the previously fixed hip would gain strength there.  Maybe he had two bad hips to begin with and this is the first time he will have rehabbed both sides?

 

I have no evidence to suggest this, but I think Monahan comes back better than he did last year.  

Considering the bolded section. If he can return to form, that is great, I just don’t know how the money works? Also, if he’s back to normal (or even 80% of normal) do you reunite him and Johnny to spread out the scoring? 1a - 1b lines of

Johnny - Money - Mang ($23 M)

Pelltier - Lindy - Chucky ($15.5 M)

Then

Coles - Backs - Jarnkrok ($13 M)

and 

Dube - Ruzie - Toff ($8.5 M)

Thats a pretty deep lineup, cost wise 🤷‍♂️, it’s $60 Mill in the forward group (roughly) is that doable? Looch is the obvious cap casualty. What does this do to our D group. 
Sorry, just thinking out loud.
 

 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

Considering the bolded section. If he can return to form, that is great, I just don’t know how the money works? Also, if he’s back to normal (or even 80% of normal) do you reunite him and Johnny to spread out the scoring? 1a - 1b lines of

Johnny - Money - Mang ($23 M)

Pelltier - Lindy - Chucky ($15.5 M)

Then

Coles - Backs - Jarnkrok ($13 M)

and 

Dube - Ruzie - Toff ($8.5 M)

Thats a pretty deep lineup, cost wise 🤷‍♂️, it’s $60 Mill in the forward group (roughly) is that doable? Looch is the obvious cap casualty. What does this do to our D group. 
Sorry, just thinking out loud.
 

 

 

I don't think we can keep Monahan due to the money. If Lucic retired, we might be able to barely afford him.  But I don't think it's a great use of money unless he can play top 6.  I don't really see Monahan being able to be the #1C, nor do I think we should entertain that.  We saw the best line in hockey without him.

 

If we used Monahan in a top 6 role, then we should move Backlund.  Monahan doesn't fit as a play driver, so he would need to be a defensive C.  Mangiapane-Monahan-Coleman.  That leaves us top line intact, and a 3rd line with Rozie and Toffoli.  Not sure if Dube fits, since he has played better as a RW.  I wouldn't use him with Monahan, since I think we saw that trio not work that well.

 

So, the question becomes does a 50/50 chance of Monahan getting back to 100% make us better than offloading his contract and using Backlund.  We might be able to improve the depth if we stick with Backlund.  He actually was one of our better players in the playoffs.  Still has a good year or so left.      

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Looking at the D

 

As much as we would all love to land a #1 D man…the cost and availability makes it more of a pipe dream than a reality…unless we can draft one…which we have had some success in the past drafting #1 D so, 

 

But bruh, it takes 5 years to draft and develop one.  By the time they are ready, Gaudreau will be 33 and out of his prime.

 

Poirier and Kuznetsov are both looking like NHL material but too far away to call a #1 LD.

 

We need to trade for one if we want to be Cup contenders.  You have to give something good to get something good so thus I'm suggesting we use Tkachuk to get that #1 LD... If not, at least Mangiapane.  Otherwise, no way we can land that level of player in a trade.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

But bruh, it takes 5 years to draft and develop one.  By the time they are ready, Gaudreau will be 33 and out of his prime.

 

Poirier and Kuznetsov are both looking like NHL material but too far away to call a #1 LD.

 

We need to trade for one if we want to be Cup contenders.  You have to give something good to get something good so thus I'm suggesting we use Tkachuk to get that #1 LD... If not, at least Mangiapane.  Otherwise, no way we can land that level of player in a trade.

 

Can we OS Dubois?  We can do up to $4.2M.  Would need to make it right to them by offering a player at a discount in trade.  Then they might not match.

 

I suppose it would make more sense that we just offer say Mangiapane in trade.  Maybe include Zary, so they have a C pros[pect coming back.  

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Can we OS Dubois?  We can do up to $4.2M.  Would need to make it right to them by offering a player at a discount in trade.  Then they might not match.

 

I suppose it would make more sense that we just offer say Mangiapane in trade.  Maybe include Zary, so they have a C pros[pect coming back.  

 

Huh?  PLD is looking for $8-mil x 8.  Please explain this $4.2?

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Huh?  PLD is looking for $8-mil x 8.  Please explain this $4.2?

 

I just meant we can only do 4.2 or over 10.5 on the OS.

As it is WPG is hard pressed on the cap.

$18M cap remaining and need to sign 8F and 1G.

They can't do 8M.

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I just meant we can only do 4.2 or over 10.5 on the OS.

As it is WPG is hard pressed on the cap.

$18M cap remaining and need to sign 8F and 1G.

They can't do 8M.

 

Ah.  Well of course $4.2-mil isn't going to get PLD to sign and it's not going to make it difficult for WPG either.  We will have to really overpay.

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ah.  Well of course $4.2-mil isn't going to get PLD to sign and it's not going to make it difficult for WPG either.  We will have to really overpay.

 

When I started typing it, I thought we could go higher.  But even $4.2M is challenging to WPG.

If they can't get the deal done, we should be talking to them.

Not sure I would offer Tkachuk, but the value would be close there.

 

Looking at WPG cap, they have nothing major yet they are capped out.

We could possibly offer Mangiapane and Hanifin or Kylington + a non-roster player.

In return they send back Schmidt + PLD.

Just thinking out loud.

They have Pionk and Schmidt chewing up $11M.

And Dillon at almost $4M.

That's a pretty poor use of cap.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

When I started typing it, I thought we could go higher.  But even $4.2M is challenging to WPG.

If they can't get the deal done, we should be talking to them.

Not sure I would offer Tkachuk, but the value would be close there.

 

Looking at WPG cap, they have nothing major yet they are capped out.

We could possibly offer Mangiapane and Hanifin or Kylington + a non-roster player.

In return they send back Schmidt + PLD.

Just thinking out loud.

They have Pionk and Schmidt chewing up $11M.

And Dillon at almost $4M.

That's a pretty poor use of cap.

Schmidt is not worth $6 mil and as much as I like PLD theres no way he should be making $8 mil. If anything The Jets are going to try to offload Wheelers contract and that wont be easy.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Schmidt is not worth $6 mil and as much as I like PLD theres no way he should be making $8 mil. If anything The Jets are going to try to offload Wheelers contract and that wont be easy.

 

I agree about Schmitd.  He was worth what VAN paid for his contract, but I don't think he's worth 6.

Not close.  That's like Myers bad.

Wheeler is a tough sell.

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ah.  Well of course $4.2-mil isn't going to get PLD to sign and it's not going to make it difficult for WPG either.  We will have to really overpay.

Didn’t CAR offer Kotkaniemi a high 1-year contract, and when it wasn’t matched they signed him beyond the year for a lesser cap? Could we do the same with PLD knowing that Looch’s contract is up the following season and there’s more cap to offer a higher contract following the 1-year low one?
 

It may be possible, but not probable.  I do think BT is pretty sly however, so hopefully he can pull something interesting off this off-season.