2022 NHL Draft

[Thebrewcrew]

It's the first season with the new draft lottery rules. New Jersey and Montreal were this years lottery winners. 

 

Montreal is selecting 1st and will have the opportunity to select Shane Wright.

 

Unfortunately, there will be very little Flames content in this draft. 

[conundrumed]

I'm more than on record as anti-lottery. Just go 32 down to 1.

Source:McDavid, Hall, RNH, Yakupov.

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm more than on record as anti-lottery. Just go 32 down to 1.

Source:McDavid, Hall, RNH, Yakupov.

 

The opposite is needed.  Full unweighted lotto for all teams that miss the playoffs regardless of position.

 

Why fans have to endure their franchise selling players at the TDL?  Teams should try to win to the very last game.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

The opposite is needed.  Full unweighted lotto for all teams that miss the playoffs regardless of position.

 

Why fans have to endure their franchise selling players at the TDL?  Teams should try to win to the very last game.

 

I agree with this concept.

ARI played its way out of 1st overall.

The players don't want to be last in the league and any fan that does is just wrong. 

[Heartbreaker]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

The opposite is needed.  Full unweighted lotto for all teams that miss the playoffs regardless of position.

 

Why fans have to endure their franchise selling players at the TDL?  Teams should try to win to the very last game.

 

I agree. Alternatively, it could go in reverse - the team that just misses takes the first pick.

 

Love.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The opposite is needed.  Full unweighted lotto for all teams that miss the playoffs regardless of position.

 

Why fans have to endure their franchise selling players at the TDL?  Teams should try to win to the very last game.

I don't agree at all. There's a ton of talent in drafts now, 1st overall guarantees nothing, and even when it's a star, you have a lot of crap to fix to finish 32nd.

I think it's heavily overthought because once every 37 years someone will try to throw it. Even then, you're asking guys fighting for a shot in the league and guys playing for contracts to throw games. It isn't going to happen. Build the rules around those norms, not lotteries.

Mind you, every commercial in hockey now revolves around betting, so I guess it's more Satoshi Nakamoto to bet on.🙄

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't agree at all. There's a ton of talent in drafts now, 1st overall guarantees nothing, and even when it's a star, you have a lot of crap to fix to finish 32nd.

I think it's heavily overthought because once every 37 years someone will try to throw it. Even then, you're asking guys fighting for a shot in the league and guys playing for contracts to throw games. It isn't going to happen. Build the rules around those norms, not lotteries.

Mind you, every commercial in hockey now revolves around betting, so I guess it's more Satoshi Nakamoto to bet on.🙄

 

I can't believe they have in-game betting.  What could go wrong?

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't agree at all. There's a ton of talent in drafts now, 1st overall guarantees nothing, and even when it's a star, you have a lot of crap to fix to finish 32nd.

I think it's heavily overthought because once every 37 years someone will try to throw it. Even then, you're asking guys fighting for a shot in the league and guys playing for contracts to throw games. It isn't going to happen. Build the rules around those norms, not lotteries.

Mind you, every commercial in hockey now revolves around betting, so I guess it's more Satoshi Nakamoto to bet on.🙄

 

Logic doesn't make sense.  If there's so many good players in the draft then go full unweighted.  It shouldn't hurt a rebuild since 1st overall doesn't affect anything.

 

But what unweighted lottery does is it encourages losing teams to acquire talent at the TDL to keep winning.  Make hockey trades instead of "selling" and leaving fans to cheer for losses in order to gain a lottery advantage.  It's for the integrity of the game.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Logic doesn't make sense.  If there's so many good players in the draft then go full unweighted.  It shouldn't hurt a rebuild since 1st overall doesn't affect anything.

 

But what unweighted lottery does is it encourages losing teams to acquire talent at the TDL to keep winning.  Make hockey trades instead of "selling" and leaving fans to cheer for losses in order to gain a lottery advantage.  It's for the integrity of the game.

What?

There are other ways to ensure the integrity.

Gather up the bottom 16 and let's have a Bingo night. Honestly?

We can't all agree or there is nothing to talk about.

I am complete anti. 32-1 draft order, done. Forget algorithms, it's ridiculous how over-thought it is imho.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

What?

There are other ways to ensure the integrity.

Gather up the bottom 16 and let's have a Bingo night. Honestly?

We can't all agree or there is nothing to talk about.

I am complete anti. 32-1 draft order, done. Forget algorithms, it's ridiculous how over-thought it is imho.

 

No either we have a lottery or we don't have a lottery... But the league went halfway... It's a lottery that's not really a lottery.  

 

I mean, go all the way or just cancel the lottery all together.

[Thebrewcrew]

I don't mind the new lotto format.

 

Three draws was too many. You had teams like Philly jump from 12th to 2nd. They had 88pts that year.

 

I like the limitation on lottery wins. We all know how many the Oilers won. Rangers, Devils and Sabres have all had multiple wins in the last 5 years. Specifically, NJ and BUF shouldn't keep being rewarded for their ineptitude

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't mind the new lotto format.

 

Three draws was too many. You had teams like Philly jump from 12th to 2nd. They had 88pts that year.

 

I like the limitation on lottery wins. We all know how many the Oilers won. Rangers, Devils and Sabres have all had multiple wins in the last 5 years. Specifically, NJ and BUF shouldn't keep being rewarded for their ineptitude

 

Sorry but the new lottery was to prevent a team like EDM from getting 4 1st overalls.

Few years too late for that.

If there wasn't a problem with a full lottery, why is there now?

[cross16]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:07 PM, conundrumed said:

What?

There are other ways to ensure the integrity.

Gather up the bottom 16 and let's have a Bingo night. Honestly?

We can't all agree or there is nothing to talk about.

I am complete anti. 32-1 draft order, done. Forget algorithms, it's ridiculous how over-thought it is imho.

 

I agree, I think this issue receives way more discussion that it warrants it. I think there are more than enough measures in there to prevent true "tanking"  and I personally see no reason to change the rules. 

 

I personally like the idea of an exciting trade deadline and I think deals spur fan excitement. If you are going to incentive teams to need to win to the last game I thikn you are going to see less player movement. That trade off isn't worth it for me. 

 

but in all honesty I think the NHL has the balance right and the best rules in terms of handling "tanking" of any of the major sports leagues. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree, I think this issue receives way more discussion that it warrants it. I think there are more than enough measures in there to prevent true "tanking"  and I personally see no reason to change the rules. 

 

I personally like the idea of an exciting trade deadline and I think deals spur fan excitement. If you are going to incentive teams to need to win to the last game I thikn you are going to see less player movement. That trade off isn't worth it for me. 

 

but in all honesty I think the NHL has the balance right and the best rules in terms of handling "tanking" of any of the major sports leagues. 

 

I can see that. But I think that still getting more bullets in the draft could still be warranted at trade deadline. Having an incentive to win despite that, might be a way to go. 

 

What if we made playoffs for the bottom teams... 

 

4 team tournaments for placements?

 

The bottom four in the standings play for:

 

1st overall - 4th overall

 

5th-8th. 

 

8th - 11th

 

12th - 16th

 

They'd never go for it though. But it might get more revenue for owners?

 

[robrob74]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

I can see that. But I think that still getting more bullets in the draft could still be warranted at trade deadline. Having an incentive to win despite that, might be a way to go. 

 

What if we made playoffs for the bottom teams... 

 

4 team tournaments for placements?

 

The bottom four in the standings play for:

 

1st overall - 4th overall

 

5th-8th. 

 

8th - 11th

 

12th - 16th

 

They'd never go for it though. But it might get more revenue for owners?

 

 

It would amount to 2 or 3 extra games. The winners of each tiers  win get the top spot of each tier.

[sak22]

I think the #1 is a little overvalued, there are always going to be the generational players like Ovie, Crosby, McDavid who we all knew were going #1 by the time they were 15, the other years it's hit or miss whether the #1 is the best player in the draft.  Not every draft is going to produce the franchise altering player at the top, that the hype of each draft pegs, see the 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2017, and possibly 2018 and 2020 based on early results.  Imagine having the #1 pick 11 years ago and your main rivals 4th rounder would have 81 more points in 117 less games.  The lottery system is fine, expectations for what that pick will do for a franchise need to be put in check big time.

[robrob74]

On 5/13/2022 at 4:24 PM, sak22 said:

I think the #1 is a little overvalued, there are always going to be the generational players like Ovie, Crosby, McDavid who we all knew were going #1 by the time they were 15, the other years it's hit or miss whether the #1 is the best player in the draft.  Not every draft is going to produce the franchise altering player at the top, that the hype of each draft pegs, see the 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2017, and possibly 2018 and 2020 based on early results.  Imagine having the #1 pick 11 years ago and your main rivals 4th rounder would have 81 more points in 117 less games.  The lottery system is fine, expectations for what that pick will do for a franchise need to be put in check big time.

 

i think the biggest problem about that is that most of the time #s 1-3 or 4 are usually top tier players and usually guaranteed to be some of the best of the drafts they’re in. The hard parts are reading the Pastranaks. Every team past on Point and other players. Valamaki wasn’t even the best choice to pick in that spot and is almost trending bust. Maybe I’m being harsh and he can turn it around. It’s just more of a crapshoot and it’s definitely possible to find a gem but very likely to find a decent nhl player but harder to find the one that would or could have the best career from that pick onwards.  

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

i think the biggest problem about that is that most of the time #s 1-3 or 4 are usually top tier players and usually guaranteed to be some of the best of the drafts they’re in. The hard parts are reading the Pastranaks. Every team past on Point and other players. Valamaki wasn’t even the best choice to pick in that spot and is almost trending bust. Maybe I’m being harsh and he can turn it around. It’s just more of a crapshoot and it’s definitely possible to find a gem but very likely to find a decent nhl player but harder to find the one that would or could have the best career from that pick onwards.  

Yeah I think the biggest thing for me in some years is making the distinction of who will be the best player at 18 and 19 vs. who will be the best from 22 on.  If you look at that 2017 draft if you had a redo you go Makar #1 easily, but Makar didn't debut until he was a 20 year old, the top 2 played as 18 year olds.  If you take Edmonton for example with Nuge, he was a good player at 18 but never really grew from that whereas Huberdeau, Zibanejad, Scheifele, Couturier and even JT Miller are better, and thats just the first round forwards and then you got Johnny and Kuch.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

i think the biggest problem about that is that most of the time #s 1-3 or 4 are usually top tier players and usually guaranteed to be some of the best of the drafts they’re in. The hard parts are reading the Pastranaks. Every team past on Point and other players. Valamaki wasn’t even the best choice to pick in that spot and is almost trending bust. Maybe I’m being harsh and he can turn it around. It’s just more of a crapshoot and it’s definitely possible to find a gem but very likely to find a decent nhl player but harder to find the one that would or could have the best career from that pick onwards.  

Valimaki was ranked in the 10-15 range in 2017. Put up a pt/g as a D. The pick made sense at the time. For a little context, Robert Thomas had 66pts in 66 games as a forward. Valimaki had 61 in 60 as a D. Valimaki played on a pairing with Heiskanen at the WJC and didn't look put of place.

 

It hasn't went the way the Flames would have liked, but that's what happens when you're drafting teenagers. 

[The_People1]

Doesn't matter if top ranked players are overated or not.  Tanking simply let's you draft earlier so it's an inherent advantage, end of story.

 

Drafts are only half the story.  You still have to develop kids properly and many teams fail their prospects.  Rush them, etc.

 

But it helps to pick earlier so you get your player.

[sak22]

43 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Valimaki was ranked in the 10-15 range in 2017. Put up a pt/g as a D. The pick made sense at the time. For a little context, Robert Thomas had 66pts in 66 games as a forward. Valimaki had 61 in 60 as a D. Valimaki played on a pairing with Heiskanen at the WJC and didn't look put of place.

 

It hasn't went the way the Flames would have liked, but that's what happens when you're drafting teenagers. 

A year and a bit away for a young player is also killer, the key for development is to play games and it really shows with Valimaki and Patrick, maybe neither were going to be superstars but both were trending better at 19 than at 23.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Doesn't matter if top ranked players are overated or not.  Tanking simply let's you draft earlier so it's an inherent advantage, end of story.

 

Drafts are only half the story.  You still have to develop kids properly and many teams fail their prospects.  Rush them, etc.

 

But it helps to pick earlier so you get your player.

 

I see that too! You get to evaluate the players and then get to pick out of all of the players evaluated who you think is best. Maybe weisbrod would still take Jankowski lol.

[conundrumed]

With very few picks this year, should we turn a keen eye on ELC's for undrafted players?

David Spacek with Sherbrooke maybe? O-minded RD.

The OHL guys that missed entire seasons in their draft years and are now surprising?

I'll admit, I'm not clear on who goes back to the draft and who is UFA.

Ryan Francis, for example, I'm thinking is now UFA? (example, obviously not a target)

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

With very few picks this year, should we turn a keen eye on ELC's for undrafted players?

David Spacek with Sherbrooke maybe? O-minded RD.

The OHL guys that missed entire seasons in their draft years and are now surprising?

I'll admit, I'm not clear on who goes back to the draft and who is UFA.

Ryan Francis, for example, I'm thinking is now UFA? (example, obviously not a target)

 

Francis goes back into the draft.

Not sure what makes the difference.

[conundrumed]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Francis goes back into the draft.

Not sure what makes the difference.

I read his jr eligibility is done, so assumed his draft eligibility is too.

Where's @cross when a guy needs an edumacation?