The Re-signing Thread

[Horsman1]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Mangiapane is a good defensive player.  He added to Tkachuk and Backlund's games when they were mostly defensive line.  He's easily top line talent.  If we had a good 2nd line scoring C, he would be even higher in points.  

 

To do that, we either need Monahan to be much better and trade Backlund for a cheaper, younger, C or move Monahan and get a better, cheaper 2nd line C.

 

Buying out Monahan saves us $4m, but leaves us with a hole and no money to replace him.  Need the savings to use on signing guys to new deals.  

 

What we should be doing is moving Monahan and Backlund out somehow, bring in a 2nd a 3rd line C or just a 2nd line C and move up Ruzie.  We lose a bit of Backlund's defensive game, but you need that spread out on all lines.   system is a right shooting playmaking f

ace off specialist center.. who is out there that is a fit

 

Sutter has said over and over again this year.. what we are missing anywhere in the

system is a right shooting playmaking f

ace off specialist center.. who is out there that is a fit

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

Sutter has said over and over again this year.. what we are missing anywhere in the

system is a right shooting playmaking f

ace off specialist center.. who is out there that is a fit

 

Is this player Matthews Phillips?  Stockton's leading scorer,

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=180387

 

He's too small and soft in my opinion but he's putting up the numbers as a playmaking RHS C.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is this player Matthews Phillips?  Stockton's leading scorer,

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=180387

 

He's too small and soft in my opinion but he's putting up the numbers as a playmaking RHS C.

 

He might be listed as a C, but he hasn't played C in the AHL. He is a RW.

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

He might be listed as a C, but he hasn't played C in the AHL. He is a RW.

 

What are the lines in Stockton right now?

[JTech780]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

What are the lines in Stockton right now?

 

The top line is:

 

Pelletier-Gawdin-Phillips

[The_People1]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

The top line is:

 

Pelletier-Gawdin-Phillips

 

Thanks.  Considering Phillips is turning 24 years old in April, I would assume his ceiling is not the NHL.  It's not like he has size to carve out a bottom 6 role or anything.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thanks.  Considering Phillips is turning 24 years old in April, I would assume his ceiling is not the NHL.  It's not like he has size to carve out a bottom 6 role or anything.

 

By all things considering, he is no smaller than Yamamoto.  And I don't think Yamo belongs in the NHL any more than Phillips doe.  Difference is that EDM had the luxury of zero depth or difference makers in the AHL.  True that a smaller player has to use his escape velocity to avoid hits and stay off the boards unless digging at a puck.  

 

We should really just trade him.  He didn't impress Sutter, who thinks guys like him need about 20 pounds of extra muscle.  

[sak22]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thanks.  Considering Phillips is turning 24 years old in April, I would assume his ceiling is not the NHL.  It's not like he has size to carve out a bottom 6 role or anything.

St. Louis wasn't an every day player at 24, wasn't a star until he was 27.  St. Louis is an extreme example, but there are still plenty that don't hit the NHL until 24 or later that still make an impact: Bunting, Verheage, Marchment, Hyman, Coleman to name a few, I know most those guys have size, but most of them also didn't produce in the AHL like Phillips is doing now, mid 20's are where most athletes really begin to build into their peaks, its not a cutoff.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

St. Louis wasn't an every day player at 24, wasn't a star until he was 27.  St. Louis is an extreme example, but there are still plenty that don't hit the NHL until 24 or later that still make an impact: Bunting, Verheage, Marchment, Hyman, Coleman to name a few, I know most those guys have size, but most of them also didn't produce in the AHL like Phillips is doing now, mid 20's are where most athletes really begin to build into their peaks, its not a cutoff.

Liked wasn’t enough. Great post. Very true. You don’t have to be in the NHL. You need the support system from the org.

Bennett is maybe an example of when the player is unhappy with the support system. I’ve wondered if toning down Tkachuk last year weighed into Bennett requesting a trade. Just surmising.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Liked wasn’t enough. Great post. Very true. You don’t have to be in the NHL. You need the support system from the org.

Bennett is maybe an example of when the player is unhappy with the support system. I’ve wondered if toning down Tkachuk last year weighed into Bennett requesting a trade. Just surmising.

 

not to say Bennett is a whiner or anything. 
 

the thing about Bennett is, we gave him a line in the Playoffs and they ran with it and were the best line that year. So coach decides to disassemble the line, award Dube and not Bennett for the play. Bennett seems to now be clearly the guy that drove the line. Not saying Bennett didn’t need the other two, he needs guys who can play in the NHL but clearly the coaches made the wrong decision and he felt the organization will never reward him for what he can do and then it killed his confidence that he’s showing now. I get people are going to say, well look who he’s playing with! But they’re (jockey people in Florida) saying that parts of Huberdeau’s game is better with Bennett and that it isn’t just Bennett benefiting from it. Plus, how is this any different to Monahan? Monahan can’t play without players. 
 

I guess that’s what you mean by the support system? I think the organization goes by complete meritocracy but for some reason get away from the importance of building/developing  a player or a line. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

St. Louis wasn't an every day player at 24, wasn't a star until he was 27.  St. Louis is an extreme example, but there are still plenty that don't hit the NHL until 24 or later that still make an impact: Bunting, Verheage, Marchment, Hyman, Coleman to name a few, I know most those guys have size, but most of them also didn't produce in the AHL like Phillips is doing now, mid 20's are where most athletes really begin to build into their peaks, its not a cutoff.

 

The thing about MSL is he became a thick player.  Big legs.  That allowed him to play in the NHL.

His advice to Johnny was build up core and lower body, since the hands are pure gold.

Phillips would do well to follow that lead.

[robrob74]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The thing about MSL is he became a thick player.  Big legs.  That allowed him to play in the NHL.

His advice to Johnny was build up core and lower body, since the hands are pure gold.

Phillips would do well to follow that lead.

i think Dube would too. Dube gets knocked around too much.

[travel_dude]

41 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i think Dube would too. Dube gets knocked around too much.

Dube is deceiving.  He looks small but really isn't.  Saying that he tries to play bogger than his lower body can handle perhaps.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Dube is deceiving.  He looks small but really isn't.  Saying that he tries to play bogger than his lower body can handle perhaps.

he seems to get knocked down on to the ice a lot… I wanna say every shift he gets knocked off the puck…

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

he seems to get knocked down on to the ice a lot… I wanna say every shift he gets knocked off the puck…

 

As does Mangipane.  The difference is that Mange goes to the soft areas same shift.

Knocked down that is.

 

I am sick of him being sat.  He was due a game or two, but this is dumb.  Motivate with a game off, and not sit them for lesser players.  This isn't the playoffs where you need a spark.  They sat after a loss where the whole team was crap.  We have a crap game against MTL and the "vets" stay in?

[travel_dude]

Friedman talked about MTL possibly trading Weber's contract.

He's likely done, but the cap cushion might help us.

Not sure of the ins and outs of it, but wouldn't it allow us some room to re-sign the needed people.

And possibly upgrading?

Actual cost is $6m over 4 years.

[The_People1]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:48 AM, travel_dude said:

Friedman talked about MTL possibly trading Weber's contract.

He's likely done, but the cap cushion might help us.

Not sure of the ins and outs of it, but wouldn't it allow us some room to re-sign the needed people.

And possibly upgrading?

Actual cost is $6m over 4 years.

 

No, doesn't work like that.

 

If your team is at $82.5-mil and you lose a player to LTIR, then you can add players up until you reach $82.5-mil again.  

 

If your team is at $82.5-mil and you add players on LTIR, you are already at $82.5-mil.  You cannot add anymore players to the active roster.

[Addicted]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No, doesn't work like that.

 

If your team is at $82.5-mil and you lose a player to LTIR, then you can add players up until you reach $82.5-mil again.  

 

If your team is at $82.5-mil and you add players on LTIR, you are already at $82.5-mil.  You cannot add anymore players to the active roster.

You would have to trade back contracts equal to Webers, and then put Weber on LTIR, effectively freeing up his cap to squire better quality players. Trade some dead weight cap and a prospect or pick to free that cap space up. 

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No, doesn't work like that.

 

If your team is at $82.5-mil and you lose a player to LTIR, then you can add players up until you reach $82.5-mil again.  

 

If your team is at $82.5-mil and you add players on LTIR, you are already at $82.5-mil.  You cannot add anymore players to the active roster.

 

The only way that helps is if the LTIR guy is able to come off LTIR in the playoffs. So, if there's an injured guy out there that will probably get healthy by the playoffs, maybe you add that guy, but you don't wanna add Weber because he isn't coming back. Weber will help teams wanting to get to the cap floor, and their player's insurance probably covers their salary.

[cross16]

Weber could make some sense if the Flames acquire him for next to nothing and think they can put together a team that would be very close to the cap (including Weber) or slightly over the cap (again including Weber). It could open up some cap credits for them, but they would need to factor in Webers contract and it's difficult for me to see that scenario happening here. 

[cross16]

Good points made by Pike here. The other nice point from a Flames perspective is both are very strong 5 on 5 producers and don't rely on the PP. Also only buys 1 Arb year. 

 

Good reference point for what a Mang extension could look like, although I must admit I was a bit surprised by this deal. 

 

 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

Good points made by Pike here. The other nice point from a Flames perspective is both are very strong 5 on 5 producers and don't rely on the PP. Also only buys 1 Arb year. 

 

Good reference point for what a Mang extension could look like, although I must admit I was a bit surprised by this deal. 

 

 

The only point that might bump Mangiapane down is that McCann plays a premium position.

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Good points made by Pike here. The other nice point from a Flames perspective is both are very strong 5 on 5 producers and don't rely on the PP. Also only buys 1 Arb year. 

 

Good reference point for what a Mang extension could look like, although I must admit I was a bit surprised by this deal. 

 

 

 

So are you saying that you think this is a fair deal for both side (Mange and Flames)?

I know there is some hints that Mangiapane might take a deal to get to UFA.

But, to me that is if he gets lowballed with $3m for term.

[robrob74]

35 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So are you saying that you think this is a fair deal for both side (Mange and Flames)?

I know there is some hints that Mangiapane might take a deal to get to UFA.

But, to me that is if he gets lowballed with $3m for term.

 

A lot think that Mange can go 5.5 or 6+. I dunno, 5 sounds refreshing with some of the projections I've seen from people on here, or what I hear on Boomer in the Morning or Flames Talk (radio). 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The only point that might bump Mangiapane down is that McCann plays a premium position.

 

Could be but I think that also gets offset by the fact Mang goal scoring rate is better. League does tend to pay more for goals. 

 

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

So are you saying that you think this is a fair deal for both side (Mange and Flames)?

I know there is some hints that Mangiapane might take a deal to get to UFA.

But, to me that is if he gets lowballed with $3m for term.

 

I think it provides a ball park. I feel like McCann gave the Kraken a bit of a deal here but I think most comps i've looked at a fair deal for both sides is somewhere in the 5-6 AAV range on a longer term deal.