UFA 2021

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, cross16 said:

I wonder if the Flames would take a look at Erik Gustafsson again. He was a good fit here and their PP was dynamite with him. I know they didn’t re sign him last year but it didn’t really make sense to with the makeup of their d. Makes a lot more sense this year. 

 

As a PP QB he makes sense, but I worry about his ability to defend.

He's not as bad as Kylington, but still an adventure.

Is that what we want to complete the transition from Gio?

Zadorov and Gustafsson both a little questionable on defense?

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

As a PP QB he makes sense, but I worry about his ability to defend.

He's not as bad as Kylington, but still an adventure.

Is that what we want to complete the transition from Gio?

Zadorov and Gustafsson both a little questionable on defense?

 

I don't think Gustafsson is the answer.  He had 0 PP goals last season despite getting over 2-min per night, and his defensive game isn't strong enough for a team that is going to have to win 2 to 1 a lot of nights.  I would love to see the Flames bring on another D that can play both 5 on 5 and on the PP, but I don't think we can afford a PP specialist.  Especially one that hasn't been scoring in a couple of seasons. 

 

I don't think Zadorov has questionable defense though.  He was on a bad Chicago team and he is still young, so he had the occasionally bad shift.  But overall I think he is a defensively focused and capable player.  I could be wrong though.  

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I don't think Gustafsson is the answer.  He had 0 PP goals last season despite getting over 2-min per night, and his defensive game isn't strong enough for a team that is going to have to win 2 to 1 a lot of nights.  I would love to see the Flames bring on another D that can play both 5 on 5 and on the PP, but I don't think we can afford a PP specialist.  Especially one that hasn't been scoring in a couple of seasons. 

 

I don't think Zadorov has questionable defense though.  He was on a bad Chicago team and he is still young, so he had the occasionally bad shift.  But overall I think he is a defensively focused and capable player.  I could be wrong though.  

 

I'm not in favor of Gus.  I believe Zadorov played top minutes last year, so there is some expected missteps.

I would prefer we add an offensive D-man to balance out th D.

[The_People1]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:50 PM, cross16 said:

I’m thinking less than what he got last year, which was 1 year 3mill AAV. 

 

I'd pass.

 

Just challenge Valimaki and Andersson in that spot as #1 PP QB.  Give them both 2 months each before rushing out to get a PP QB.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'd pass.

 

Just challenge Valimaki and Andersson in that spot as #1 PP QB.  Give them both 2 months each before rushing out to get a PP QB.

Andersson  is great at holding the line. Plus I think he deferred to Gio too much and didn’t do his own thing. Time to be himself.

 

its like, final minute of the game and he’s forced to not think trying to get a goal and he helped create a few over the years. Just gotta be himself .

 

I think I’m the Iginla era, a lot of our guys did that, and deferred to Iggy when they just needed to be themselves. I felt the few times Iginla got injured the team played better as a team without him. It’s why I started to advocate in dealing him 3 or 4 years before we dealt him. 

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Andersson  is great at holding the line. Plus I think he deferred to Gio too much and didn’t do his own thing. Time to be himself.

 

its like, final minute of the game and he’s forced to not think trying to get a goal and he helped create a few over the years. Just gotta be himself .

 

Andersson has a good shot but doesn't use it enough and/or doesn't create the lanes to get his shot on net.  I don't know what's his problem outside of not being creative enough.  He's becoming a "work hard but not work smart" kind of player.  He needs to find a way.  If he can get his shots on net then he could score 20-goals.

 

Valimaki has a good shot too and has better offensive vision.  He's my first choice on the PP but Sutter doesn't trust young D.  He has the highest potential to become our answer.

 

Kylington and Mackey deserve a look on the PP too.  Just haven't seen enough of them.  If we add Eichel, then there's no money to add another D.  We will have to count on our D depth.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Andersson has a good shot but doesn't use it enough and/or doesn't create the lanes to get his shot on net.  I don't know what's his problem outside of not being creative enough.  He's becoming a "work hard but not work smart" kind of player.  He needs to find a way.  If he can get his shots on net then he could score 20-goals.

 

Valimaki has a good shot too and has better offensive vision.  He's my first choice on the PP but Sutter doesn't trust young D.  He has the highest potential to become our answer.

 

Kylington and Mackey deserve a look on the PP too.  Just haven't seen enough of them.  If we add Eichel, then there's no money to add another D.  We will have to count on our D depth.

 

I think Ras suffered from watching Gio too much.

You have to be smart and wait for the perfect opportunity, skate in close and wrist it on net.

You could almost put the two in frame by frame and watch the similar approach.

 

Valimaki has better vision.

Has plays in mind, but not everyone knows what they are.

Needs practice with the team to show them.

 

I almost think they need to teach Kylington how to play wing.

The guy can skate like the wind and isn't a violet.

Defensive forward.

Less critical position as a 3rd pair D.

 

[cross16]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'd pass.

 

Just challenge Valimaki and Andersson in that spot as #1 PP QB.  Give them both 2 months each before rushing out to get a PP QB.

I would do the same with Valimaki. I don’t think Anderson is a QB he should be freed up to use his shot. 
I ask about Gus not so much because it’s what I want to do, although I see a pretty glaring need, but more wondering if they will. I’m not sure if Sutter is going to give Valimaki that spot even if he should. 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I would do the same with Valimaki. I don’t think Anderson is a QB he should be freed up to use his shot. 
I ask about Gus not so much because it’s what I want to do, although I see a pretty glaring need, but more wondering if they will. I’m not sure if Sutter is going to give Valimaki that spot even if he should. 

 

That is fair. But it also begs the question, who is the QB?  Is it Gaudreau?  Was it last year or was that Gio?

We were almost completely incapable of scoring with the net empty last year, maybe one goal in that situation the entire year.

It might be higher than that, but I seem to recall that if we were down a goal, that was over.

 

The lack of D is more of an issue for 5v5 time.  Maybe we will be okay with Hanifin, Tanev, Ras, Zadorov, Valimaki, and Mackie/Kylington.

But it feels like we downgraded dramatically.  I've got no real problem with any of them, but 2 of the 7 are not quite ready for full time work.

I would say we aren't done yet, because I don't think Stone is the solution.  If he was, he would have been signed by now.

[cross16]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

That is fair. But it also begs the question, who is the QB?  Is it Gaudreau?  Was it last year or was that Gio?

 

 

They don't have one and haven't for years (save for the few months Gus was here). I think the success of their PP, which I still think will be good even without an addition, is more build around the forwards and not their D. 

[travel_dude]

Does anyone have interest in Vatanen, even if it's just a one year deal?

RHS, but smaller in size.

Could be cheap, but does he solve a need over a guy like Stone?

[zima]

So that was a great traade we pick up Zad and now we have to go to arb what is that all about. Plus I was surfing and Mr EK has JH on the move to bad EK is hardly ever right OHH by the way he has a source in Calgary has it 60-70% chance it happens LOL.

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, zima said:

So that was a great traade we pick up Zad and now we have to go to arb what is that all about. Plus I was surfing and Mr EK has JH on the move to bad EK is hardly ever right OHH by the way he has a source in Calgary has it 60-70% chance it happens LOL.

Zadorov's agent got out ahead of that and said they elected arb due to the trade being fresh and BT was too busy atm to be able to talk contract with them. Electing arbitration doesn't necessarily mean that it gets that far.

[conundrumed]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:33 PM, travel_dude said:

Does anyone have interest in Vatanen, even if it's just a one year deal?

RHS, but smaller in size.

Could be cheap, but does he solve a need over a guy like Stone?

Is he better than Stone? Yes. He'd be pretty cheap and likely worth taking a flyer on. He's had a hard time finding consistency post-injury so has bounced around.

But Stone isn't exactly good...he's been a BT project since day 1 it seems. I'd prefer Vatanen personally. At least breathing life into him could have upside, as opposed to Stone.

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, zima said:

So that was a great traade we pick up Zad and now we have to go to arb what is that all about. Plus I was surfing and Mr EK has JH on the move to bad EK is hardly ever right OHH by the way he has a source in Calgary has it 60-70% chance it happens LOL.

 

Bwahahaha, Eklund having a source.

Eric Francis perhaps.

I saw a video posted from a guy from Nova Scotia.

He suggested NYI wanted him and would offer Josh Bailey.

That was his idea of what they could possibly move.

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Is he better than Stone? Yes. He'd be pretty cheap and likely worth taking a flyer on. He's had a hard time finding consistency post-injury so has bounced around.

But Stone isn't exactly good...he's been a BT project since day 1 it seems. I'd prefer Vatanen personally. At least breathing life into him could have upside, as opposed to Stone.

 

I also look at the likelyhood of being able to trade a player if possible.

We signed crap players last year, that nobody wanted at TDL.

Vatanen got moved even being at $2m.

I think he comes in less than that this season.

 

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, zima said:

So that was a great traade we pick up Zad and now we have to go to arb what is that all about. Plus I was surfing and Mr EK has JH on the move to bad EK is hardly ever right OHH by the way he has a source in Calgary has it 60-70% chance it happens LOL.

not a red flag at all.. players have a window to elect , and if a deal isnt already in place its just semantics that they file.. its not a flag that negotiations are bad 

BT also would have already known what the player was asking for before the trade .. i doubt it gets to arb day 

[jjgallow]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:33 AM, travel_dude said:

Does anyone have interest in Vatanen, even if it's just a one year deal?

RHS, but smaller in size.

Could be cheap, but does he solve a need over a guy like Stone?

 

If I was trying to salvage this team,  I would say yes, I would be interested.

 

But for one, you've got too many people who think we need to add more left wingers.

 

And for two, we've got too many holes to plug.

 

But yeah.  He'd definitely plug some holes.  Which means it probably won't happen.

 

 

Am I actually interested?   No because I don't think we have a salvageable core.   We don't need more 30 year olds we need to bring in some younger guys,  give them minutes, invest in them.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

If I was trying to salvage this team,  I would say yes, I would be interested.

 

But for one, you've got too many people who think we need to add more left wingers.

 

And for two, we've got too many holes to plug.

 

But yeah.  He'd definitely plug some holes.  Which means it probably won't happen.

 

 

Am I actually interested?   No because I don't think we have a salvageable core.   We don't need more 30 year olds we need to bring in some younger guys,  give them minutes, invest in them.

 

Any suggestions from available UFA's?

How about undrafted from this year that we could take a look at?

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Any suggestions from available UFA's?

How about undrafted from this year that we could take a look at?

 

Hmmm.  Those almost need two separate threads ha.    I'll answer the undrafted question although it doesn't as much pertain to available UFAs the same way:

 

Martin Lang,

Josh Williams,

Maxim Musorov,

Libor Zabransky,

David Aebischer,

Michal Mrazik,

Jacob Guevin,

Jeremy Brodeur,

Billy Constantineau,

TJ Hughes,

Cole Clayton

Simon Kubicek

 

 

 

[robrob74]

36 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hmmm.  Those almost need two separate threads ha.    I'll answer the undrafted question although it doesn't as much pertain to available UFAs the same way:

 

Martin Lang,

Josh Williams,

Maxim Musorov,

Libor Zabransky,

David Aebischer,

Michal Mrazik,

Jacob Guevin,

Jeremy Brodeur,

Billy Constantineau,

TJ Hughes,

Cole Clayton

Simon Kubicek

 

 

 

Any from the year before that would have gone back into the draft this draft? 

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

Any from the year before that would have gone back into the draft this draft? 

 

Yup about half of the players in that list.  And then Jeremy Brodeur who is sort of undrafted and sort of UFA.   I'm just curious because he didn't follow a normal development path but shows these signs of potential that his Dad had.  Sadly he may not have the height.

 

One thing I didn't include is a whole bunch of players who just didn't get an opportunity to play this year.   There's nothing me or anyone else can do with that, but 20 games into next year's junior season we can bet scouts will be salivating over a half dozen undrafteds that... simply....didn't play until then.     

 

So those players...the ones who didn't even play at all, there are surely going to be surprises there.   Next time I have a free hour maybe I'll make a shortlist of them.

 

The list above, I don't see any clear stars.  Some years you do get that.     But if they were all given a chance, odds are one could surprise.    And likely more than one could turn into a very valuable role player.  If given the opportunity.

[The_People1]

If we fail to land Eichel in a trade, then should we offer sheet Elias Pettersson $10-mil-per?

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hmmm.  Those almost need two separate threads ha.    I'll answer the undrafted question although it doesn't as much pertain to available UFAs the same way:

 

Martin Lang,

Josh Williams,

Maxim Musorov,

Libor Zabransky,

David Aebischer,

Michal Mrazik,

Jacob Guevin,

Jeremy Brodeur,

Billy Constantineau,

TJ Hughes,

Cole Clayton

Simon Kubicek

 

 

 

 

I was a little surprised that nobody took a flyer on Josh Williams.  But there must be something in his past that is keeping teams away from him.  He would have been at the combine a few years ago.  As an overager, he should be farther along.  

 

I guess I should have been more specific.  Fine and dandy signing an undrafted player and spending development on him at the expense of other prospects, but it has to be worth it.  Go the Hathaway or Mackey route and they fill a role, and work their butts off to be a top player in the AHL.  But that's a long term project.

 

Of immediate need, and why I asked, is that we should be looking at unsigned UFA's that have NHL experience that would be younger than and an upgrade to a guy like Vatanen.  He was part of the killer D in Anaheim that gave us fits.  He was deemed more expendable than Manson, so they traded him for Henrique.  Fell off the rails a bit in NJ, but I think he's still a good D.  I get the age argument, but we are three years away from having a RD to fill the void.  If we could find a tweener (24-28 year old), that would be more ideal, but the available D in FA are slim.  

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was a little surprised that nobody took a flyer on Josh Williams.  But there must be something in his past that is keeping teams away from him.  He would have been at the combine a few years ago.  As an overager, he should be farther along.  

 

Imagine how many sex videos you would need for that

 

Quote

 

I guess I should have been more specific.  Fine and dandy signing an undrafted player and spending development on him at the expense of other prospects, but it has to be worth it.  Go the Hathaway or Mackey route and they fill aole r, and work their butts off to be a top player in the AHL.  But that's a long term project.

 

I only selected RHS and goalies, we shouldn't interfere with any current prospect development as long as we stay away from LW

 

Quote

Of immediate need, and why I asked, is that we should be looking at unsigned UFA's that have NHL experience that would be younger than and an upgrade to a guy like Vatanen.  He was part of the killer D in Anaheim that gave us fits.  He was deemed more expendable than Manson, so they traded him for Henrique.  Fell off the rails a bit in NJ, but I think he's still a good D.  I get the age argument, but we are three years away from having a RD to fill the void.  If we could find a tweener (24-28 year old), that would be more ideal, but the available D in FA are slim.  

 

 

The Flames had the right idea on Cervenka but he was too old to develop at that point.   I think they need to be younger to make the transition.   Tampa did a good job with Kucherov, transitioning him at 19.     I digress.   There are players who are not quite Cervenka yet, who are young and can play in the NHL/AHL.   If they can transition, you're set for many years.   If they don't, it's no loss.

 

Someone to fill that role or others now?  (still PTO based):   
(if you do a comparison to Cervenka, for instance, by age:  These are all above his level at same age)

 

Lukas Pilo

Marcel Barinka

Martin Fasko-Rudas

Jaso Jenko

Brett Kemp

Alexander Ehl

Nikita Shashkov

Nikita Boyarkin

Riku Sihvonen

Paul Joubert

Vladislav Kuliyev

Alexander Peresunko